how do c-sections fit into a natural birth framework? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GuildJenn View Post

To me the conversation is like:

"How do c-sections fit into NCB?"
"We have to educate women so they can avoid them!"

... if that's the answer, then that's why people who recognize their c-sections as part of THEIR thoughtful delivery feel like "well, we can't fit."
Perhaps the question shouldn't be 'how do c-sections fit into NCB?'. Perhaps it should be how do we support post-c-section or post-intervention women within the NCB community? Assuming they're HERE in the first place, they probably wanted a natural a birth as possible and they want to parent naturally. Or perhaps they didn't but have since learned differently. Either way, they need to be welcomed here, not ostracized for choices that have already been made.

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#122 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:27 PM
 
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#123 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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And I would suggest that no one here is "making you feel" anything. No one has said that you made a bad decision or had a bad birth. You are entitled to your feelings, but you are also responsible for them.

You asked:

"How do c-sections fit into NCB?"

My answer: We will try to educate women on how to have a natural childbirth, while at the same time educating them that sometimes a c-section is necessary, and nothing to feel bad about.

(Which I have now said THREE times, so I think that maybe I should stop being the strawman for you.)
I look forward to your posts on how a c-section is sometimes necessary.

I was thinking about your 12-step board analogy. And it works for me...which is why I rarely, RARELY post on this forum. But when I saw this thread's title and direction I definitely took it as an opportunity to talk about how c-section for me can fit into the NCB framework.

I'm really disappointed that it went in the direction of "well WHY do people who have had/needed c-sections always take it SO PERSONALLY." Instead of asking the question really, why is it that our way of posting about c-sections alienates the very women we are trying to serve or include?

It just confirms for me that there's a significant portion of the community that is just not ready to really to include people with experiences similar to mine.

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#124 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:30 PM
 
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I've written up a few posts and then thought I better stay out of it, but I'm going to put my foot in my mouth.

When I saw this thread, I thought it was a thread trying to seek out ways to support women who've had c-sections in the most natural birth framework possible. A way to have these natural minded women in the birthing part of the community without feeling like they're second rate. No, it's not "natural" to have the surgery, but most things about birth nowadays aren't natural if you get down to it, if you're going to be a purist. Do I get demoted because my vaginal births were in a hospital as opposed to home?

Now I get there is discussion and opinions to be had about reducing c-sections and how there are too many and how it's not natural etc. But I also think there is a time and place for everything. It's a hard topic for many people and they are opening up about their births and how they've felt they've been treated by the community and I don't think that this thread is the most thoughtful place to say something to the degree of people being too sensitive or touchy and that they just have to accept that they are not part of the community the same way. It's an opportunity for listening and building and coming together and making the community stronger, and I'm surprised in the midst of that (outside of relating personal birth experiences) people aren't jumping all over that.

I have two kids, I've had two vaginal births and I can easily see where people would be bothered by some of the comments. So c-section natural minded mamas, you tell me how I can be an ally, and I'll sign up.

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#125 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:31 PM
 
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I don't disagree I know some do judge but those people don't speak for MDC, for Mothering or the NCB community as a whole.

We do need to give each other a lot more love and support. Judging isn't good for the community and it doesn't help the message.
I just want to add, I don't think anyone is doing that here.

It is difficult to have a real conversation when our emotions and our most precious memories are attached to the issue.

Some of the happiest moments in my life were when my children were placed in my arms, even though I had a brand new incision at the time. It can be hard to separate that happiest moment from the c/s issue.

I have struggled to separate the issue so I focus on my daughter and what her birth choices will be. I don't want my daughter's Dr thinking he can tell her she needs to be induced at 39 weeks because he is going on vacation. I don't want my daughter struggling to find a midwife. If my daughter does have a c/s then I want her to be able to get a VBAC if she wants.

We have to keep fighting because we are parents.

We just have to be able to do that while offering other parents the love and support that they need.

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#126 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And I would suggest that no one here is "making you feel" anything. No one has said that you made a bad decision or had a bad birth. You are entitled to your feelings, but you are also responsible for them.
this is off-topic but i do not agree with the above. i know it is very common in 12-step programs (having been through quite a few myself) but if someone is being mean to you, it's not _your_ fault that your feelings are hurt by their mean actions.

please note, this is the simplest way i could find to phrase this, i'm not saying that you are being mean here at all. i'm just saying that i disagree with the idea that a person carries no responsibility for the results of their actions or words.

of course, you can work through your feelings, but i don't think you choose them. otherwise, wouldn't everyone choose to be happy all the time?

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#127 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:37 PM
 
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I've written up a few posts and then thought I better stay out of it, but I'm going to put my foot in my mouth.

When I saw this thread, I thought it was a thread trying to seek out ways to support women who've had c-sections in the most natural birth framework possible. A way to have these natural minded women in the birthing part of the community without feeling like they're second rate. No, it's not "natural" to have the surgery, but most things about birth nowadays aren't natural if you get down to it, if you're going to be a purist. Do I get demoted because my vaginal births were in a hospital as opposed to home?

Now I get there is discussion and opinions to be had about reducing c-sections and how there are too many and how it's not natural etc. But I also think there is a time and place for everything. It's a hard topic for many people and they are opening up about their births and how they've felt they've been treated by the community and I don't think that this thread is the most thoughtful place to say something to the degree of people being too sensitive or touchy and that they just have to accept that they are not part of the community the same way. It's an opportunity for listening and building and coming together and making the community stronger, and I'm surprised in the midst of that (outside of relating personal birth experiences) people aren't jumping all over that.

I have two kids, I've had two vaginal births and I can easily see where people would be bothered by some of the comments. So c-section natural minded mamas, you tell me how I can be an ally, and I'll sign up.
I love that you get it. Even though you haven't had a c-section yourself, you are able to see where some of us are coming from - and I agree, the thread took an unnecessary turn.

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#128 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i'd also like to say that for most of this thread NO ONE was talking about how they were offended.

they were talking and sharing about their personal feelings and stories and how healing it could be to read find other women experiencing the same thing.

i _cried_ telling my dh about this thread and how many woman had thanked me for opening this up to discussion.

i'm crying right now because i don't want this to get shut down or become the same old argument of, "you're taking it too personally," when it WASN'T meant to be about that.

i want for everyone to read the stories and think about how to include these women that are telling you over and over again that they feel excluded, less-than, second-best, marginalized, lost.

it is not just any one person. there are lots of women here that feel this way and i don't think it's just a matter of taking things too personally. i want to do something to work through this without anger and frustration to get us ALL to a better place.

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#129 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:43 PM
 
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I don't thinl I thanked you, playa - but thank you. This thread, after reading a few others in the past week regarding c-sections, has been very helpful to me, personally, in sorting through my reality and feelings about how my children were born. Reading other's stories definitely made me feel more connected with others who have similar values in many aspects of life, despite enduring c-sections. And, you know what? In ways it has made me realize I am thankful for my c-sections - b/c while they certainly weren't wanted, the outcome was positive, and I happened to have awesome care providers and supportive people surrounding me each time. That has got to be what makes the biggest difference between a awful cesarean, and an okay one.

ribboncesarean.gif cesareans happen.
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#130 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:44 PM
 
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It is difficult to have a real conversation when our emotions and our most precious memories are attached to the issue.
It is also a difficult conversation because we are talking about who perspective gets to be included and whose must to be excluded. And we're also talking about who gets to decide what is included and excluded.

What I keep hearing, over & over, from the c/s mamas is that we feel like we don't get to decide. The terms are not ours. Our experiences, our thoughts, the truth of our stories is not what gets to decide whether or not we can include the full range of our c/s experience in the NCB conversation.

And this just adds another layer of disenfranchisement for women who have already been through a lot.

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#131 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:45 PM
 
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She did not say that your experience or you were second class. She said that c-sections are not the desirable process in the natural parenting community. There is a big difference - your interpretation takes it personally and completely distorts it.
Look I think that this is basically the crux of the arguement here: what louis posted was specifically:

"I also believe that women who have c-sections have a place in the ncb community, if they recognize that c-sections are not the desirable process."

I am certainly not trying to distort anything, but the quote implies that women who have had c-sections can only be a part of the NCB community if they realize that their experience was not desirable. Its the if that gets to me, because it does not recognize that women who have had c-sections are already part of the NCB community. Don't you see that it is by its nature exclusionary?

Of course I agree that having a baby come out of an incision is often not preferred to having one come out of your vagina. However I do not agree that women who fall into the first category need some kind of "literacy test" to be taken seriously in the NCB community. It's really frustrating.
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#132 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:46 PM
 
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i'd also like to say that for most of this thread NO ONE was talking about how they were offended.

they were talking and sharing about their personal feelings and stories and how healing it could be to read find other women experiencing the same thing.

i _cried_ telling my dh about this thread and how many woman had thanked me for opening this up to discussion.

i'm crying right now because i don't want this to get shut down or become the same old argument of, "you're taking it too personally," when it WASN'T meant to be about that.

i want for everyone to read the stories and think about how to include these women that are telling you over and over again that they feel excluded, less-than, second-best, marginalized, lost.

it is not just any one person. there are lots of women here that feel this way and i don't think it's just a matter of taking things too personally. i want to do something to work through this without anger and frustration to get us ALL to a better place.


That would be really great Playamama. So many of us have so much healing to do.

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#133 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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It is also a difficult conversation because we are talking about who perspective gets to be included and whose must to be excluded. And we're also talking about who gets to decide what is included and excluded.

What I keep hearing, over & over, from the c/s mamas is that we feel like we don't get to decide. The terms are not ours. Our experiences, our thoughts, the truth of our stories is not what gets to decide whether or not we can include the full range of our c/s experience in the NCB conversation.

And this just adds another layer of disenfranchisement for women who have already been through a lot.


I am sorry anyone feels excluded or disenfranchised. I do want everyone to feel supported and cared for.

This is an important discussion and I really hope we can all find a way together.

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#134 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:54 PM
 
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i want for everyone to read the stories and think about how to include these women that are telling you over and over again that they feel excluded, less-than, second-best, marginalized, lost.

it is not just any one person. there are lots of women here that feel this way and i don't think it's just a matter of taking things too personally. i want to do something to work through this without anger and frustration to get us ALL to a better place.
YES!!!!!

Thank you, PlayaMama for starting this conversation and for having the courage to stick with it.

Thank you for all the c/s Mamas who have the courage to tell their stories! Just knowing you are out there is hugely affirming. I want to hear from more of you.

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#135 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 05:54 PM
 
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Ladies, I've been following the thread. Thank you all for what you've shared. I don't have anything to contribute, but wanted to let you all know that I really appreciate the intelligent discussion.

all around.

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#136 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 06:00 PM
 
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I have two kids, I've had two vaginal births and I can easily see where people would be bothered by some of the comments. So c-section natural minded mamas, you tell me how I can be an ally, and I'll sign up.
I don't want to derail, but can we pursue this? What language, what support, what approaches to NCB team ourselves with women who've had c-section births? How can it be less exclusionary? What terms hurt, and which ones support? What insinuations are made that we can look out for, and call out as unfair or hurtful? What can be done to remove that "layer of disenfranchisement for women who have already been through a lot."?

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#137 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I love that you get it. Even though you haven't had a c-section yourself, you are able to see where some of us are coming from - and I agree, the thread took an unnecessary turn.
i want to say that i personally haven't had a c-section either. i'm not sure if it came across that i had because i seem so adamant about this cause but i haven't.

my motivation was seeing this sort of issue come up in several different threads and the feeling that there were women here who weren't being included.

there have been so many things in parenting that have taught me to NEVER use the phrase, "i would never...." because almost every single time i say it i find myself doing what i was never going to do. let my kid watch tv, eat processed sugar, yell, whatever..

i was going to be the perfect parent and i've discovered that all too often, that means doing the best i can with what i have. i've noticed that the same is often true of c-section mamas and yet, i hadn't really seen the issue explored and i didn't know if what i was feeling and seeing was true.

i think it's the feminist in me that wants all women's stories acknowledged and supported, especially when they seem to have the same goals in common. really, there's more holding us all together than there is separating us and i feel like those ties should be strengthened rather than torn down.

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#138 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 06:24 PM
 
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Catching up on this thread and I see it took a turn, but c'est la vie.

Abimommy - Thanks for the update about tribes as I think it might be a viable solution here.

Playa - thank you momma for starting this thread and helping us all keep our eye on the ball to have a place to share, commiserate and move forward with our NCB goals as mothers

To everyone who has shared their story - thank you
So in looking back through the various posts since my last, my work hat is on and I'm trying to see what the goals from this thread could be moving forward, and here's what I've come up with:

- an area to feel support for those mothers who have undergone c/s, to have an opportunity to be listened to, to be angry (if needed) and to have support from others who have BTDT

- Encourage local communities, free-standing birth centers, natural parenting groups to begin or sponsor c/s support groups to reach out to those women who need the support (?)

- Figure out how to mobilize education efforts with all the various audiences (HCP i.e. ob/gyns, midwives, CNMs, doulas, expectant mothers etc) with regards to the c-section rate in the us and what choices, options, practices occur in communities and the drivers behind those practices

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#139 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 06:31 PM
 
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I think for myself that it would be nice for those who are in the NBC to realize that it's not just the cascade of interventions or being scared that may create the need for a c/s. Being told I was "just scared" by a gung-ho, fresh out of school midwife who has never been pregnant or had a baby, is pretty insulting.

I still would like to see a place for us on MDC, I think for myself it would help. I know when I was in my DDC it was a difficult stigma to be an RCS, for me it wasn't really elective, it was my only option, I mean sure I could have had a HB, but no midwife would have even taken me. My nurse(also a midwife) when I was admitted for my C/S for DS saw on my record about my T, she said even with the politics surrounding VBAC that it wouldn't be an option for me. T's are just too rare and unstable of an incision.

Also there needs to be an understanding that yes many c/s are unnecessary, but many women who have had or have to have a C/S are not grossly uneducated. I was fully educated, I read and read before DDs birth, I was planning a waterbirth, I drank my RRL, took EPO, walked, envisioned my body opening, yada, yada, yada. I did all the prep work. How was I supposed to know that my broken tailbone was going to basically block my DD-I didn't. I guess not matter what there are just too many unknowns, even when we think we know what's up.

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#140 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 06:46 PM
 
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I think for myself that it would be nice for those who are in the NBC to realize that it's not just the cascade of interventions or being scared that may create the need for a c/s. Being told I was "just scared" by a gung-ho, fresh out of school midwife who has never been pregnant or had a baby, is pretty insulting.

I still would like to see a place for us on MDC, I think for myself it would help. I know when I was in my DDC it was a difficult stigma to be an RCS, for me it wasn't really elective, it was my only option, I mean sure I could have had a HB, but no midwife would have even taken me. My nurse(also a midwife) when I was admitted for my C/S for DS saw on my record about my T, she said even with the politics surrounding VBAC that it wouldn't be an option for me. T's are just too rare and unstable of an incision.

Also there needs to be an understanding that yes many c/s are unnecessary, but many women who have had or have to have a C/S are not grossly uneducated. I was fully educated, I read and read before DDs birth, I was planning a waterbirth, I drank my RRL, took EPO, walked, envisioned my body opening, yada, yada, yada. I did all the prep work. How was I supposed to know that my broken tailbone was going to basically block my DD-I didn't. I guess not matter what there are just too many unknowns, even when we think we know what's up.
The bolding is mine and This is what gets me fired up! I'll disclose that I work in an academic medical college, and received care in the affliated hosptial. For me with my failed vbac, I used every opportunity to have discussions with my HCP. He's the director of residencies in the OB/GYN department and I saw this as my chance to affect change. Now really - did I with my 10 zillion questions, or persistance with questioning policy & practice, probably not, but what I did get was a very healthy respect from him regarding my body and my decisions which I hope he continues to carry with him in his practice (I'll find out when I go back for my annual) I talked with students, residents about the choices presented, questioned their ideas of options and made them think, I complained about comments were snidely made about me jeopardizing my baby when I chose to go to 42 weeks (oh yes the dead baby card was thrown out by nurses in the clinic) and that is why we have to give the feedback to those professional - that demeaning conduct, and those fear-tactics are UNACCEPTABLE!

phew... sorry for just going off, but I needed to get that off my chest pronto

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#141 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 07:21 PM
 
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The bolding is mine and This is what gets me fired up! I'll disclose that I work in an academic medical college, and received care in the affliated hosptial. For me with my failed vbac, I used every opportunity to have discussions with my HCP. He's the director of residencies in the OB/GYN department and I saw this as my chance to affect change. Now really - did I with my 10 zillion questions, or persistance with questioning policy & practice, probably not, but what I did get was a very healthy respect from him regarding my body and my decisions which I hope he continues to carry with him in his practice (I'll find out when I go back for my annual) I talked with students, residents about the choices presented, questioned their ideas of options and made them think, I complained about comments were snidely made about me jeopardizing my baby when I chose to go to 42 weeks (oh yes the dead baby card was thrown out by nurses in the clinic) and that is why we have to give the feedback to those professional - that demeaning conduct, and those fear-tactics are UNACCEPTABLE!

phew... sorry for just going off, but I needed to get that off my chest pronto
I don't think she'll ever say anything like that again. After that comment one of her clients who was also her good friend ended up as an HB transfer via ambulance which ended up in an emergency c/s while under her care. It was a situation almost identical to my own. I'm pretty sure she's changed how she'd approach me now, but I still don't really talk to her. Honestly I don't even know if she remembers she said that, I really think it was one of those know-it-all moments that many people have when they get out of school-then reality hits. Sure in the real world we would all have perfect births, but it's something that has so many variables perfection cannot always be attained-that is the reality.

Me Wife to T (14 years)Mama to Princess(4) and Monster Boy(my 1 year old ):
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#142 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 08:06 PM
 
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i really think a c-section support section would be a very welcome addition to mdc. as i said in the previous post, i'm interested in moving _beyond_ the education for a natural birth and it seems like a forum dedicated to _support_ would accomplish that. i'd like for it not to be in "healing birth trauma" because i think there are plenty of examples in this thread where the birth wasn't necessarily traumatic but that the lack of acceptance by the ncb community has been.

i know that what we do irl can also make a difference and the stories i've read here of women becoming doulas and ob/gyns as a way to make that difference are really inspiring.

this is really exciting! i am going to post this in questions and suggestions. i will link that thread here if anyone is interested in adding their voice.
I think a c section support group on MDC would be great too. when I was totally surprised by my c section, and came on here afterwards, I wasn't sure where to post! I mostly posted in healing birth trauma but not all of my experience was traumatic.
It is interesting, because I don't think anyone wants to encourage c sections- but for those of us who have had them it is great to connect with others! I feel so much more healed- seriously- just from this thread, knoing there are many others like me in this situation.
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#143 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 08:43 PM
 
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I don't think she'll ever say anything like that again. After that comment one of her clients who was also her good friend ended up as an HB transfer via ambulance which ended up in an emergency c/s while under her care. It was a situation almost identical to my own. I'm pretty sure she's changed how she'd approach me now, but I still don't really talk to her. Honestly I don't even know if she remembers she said that, I really think it was one of those know-it-all moments that many people have when they get out of school-then reality hits. Sure in the real world we would all have perfect births, but it's something that has so many variables perfection cannot always be attained-that is the reality.
I love your last sentence as that is exactly the away I see the birth experience and hopefully will help my clients with that mentality in their approach to birthing.

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#144 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:18 PM
 
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I think a c section support group on MDC would be great too. when I was totally surprised by my c section, and came on here afterwards, I wasn't sure where to post! I mostly posted in healing birth trauma but not all of my experience was traumatic.
It is interesting, because I don't think anyone wants to encourage c sections- but for those of us who have had them it is great to connect with others! I feel so much more healed- seriously- just from this thread, knoing there are many others like me in this situation.
I was too. I was totally ignorant of c/s information and just assumed my birth would be fine. I grew up with grandparents that were born at home and great grandmothers that remembered it.

Heck I was a nine pound breech baby with a huge head (no I won't show my baby pics I am sensitive) and my mom had me vaginally, why wouldn't I be able to? My mom doesn't really understand how I wanted alternatives but she also doesn't understand that she would have been hard pressed to find a Dr who would even know how to flip a baby in the middle of labor much less one that would be willing.

My parents were the first generation in my family that was born in the hospital and it is like that for a lot of people.

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#145 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:18 PM
 
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Catching up on this thread and I see it took a turn, but c'est la vie.

Abimommy - Thanks for the update about tribes as I think it might be a viable solution here.

Playa - thank you momma for starting this thread and helping us all keep our eye on the ball to have a place to share, commiserate and move forward with our NCB goals as mothers

To everyone who has shared their story - thank you
So in looking back through the various posts since my last, my work hat is on and I'm trying to see what the goals from this thread could be moving forward, and here's what I've come up with:

- an area to feel support for those mothers who have undergone c/s, to have an opportunity to be listened to, to be angry (if needed) and to have support from others who have BTDT

- Encourage local communities, free-standing birth centers, natural parenting groups to begin or sponsor c/s support groups to reach out to those women who need the support (?)

- Figure out how to mobilize education efforts with all the various audiences (HCP i.e. ob/gyns, midwives, CNMs, doulas, expectant mothers etc) with regards to the c-section rate in the us and what choices, options, practices occur in communities and the drivers behind those practices
I think those are great. For me I think what I would like to see is:

- care paid to the rhetorical language used in discussing birth; not only are there real women and babies behind the stories (even the designer c-section ones) but I think it derails the NCB to focus heavily on c-sections and doesn't serve women well if they fear a c-section more than anything else. The c-section rate is significant as an indicator, but it is hardly the only one - having everyone in twilight sleep with forceps wouldn't be any more respectful, so let's talk about interventions and not just one possible intervention

- a focus on what would actually help people make better decisions, rather than dictating the outcome: More respect and training for midwives, more research, more dialogue between midwives and OBs and L&D nursing staff

- a more balanced look at risks and advantages/disadvantages of certain decisions in labour

- more discussion around "when labour goes off the rails" that does not insinuate that it is a lack of desire or planning on the mother's part

I am really glad to have this discussion even though it's been emotional for me. Thanks

~ Mum to Emily, March 12-16 2004, Noah, born Aug 2005, Liam, born January 2011, and wife to Carl since 1994. ~
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#146 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:29 PM
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the first question i see is this--are there people who judge other's births?

the answer to this question is yes. but those people exist both in and out of the natural birth advocacy communities.

as a UCer, my birth gets judged all the time. as a person who advocates for birth choices--including UC--my opinion gets judged all the time. my intelligence, sanity, "responsibility to others" and a whole lot of other things get judged all the time.

seriously, *all the time*. it happens in the NCB community; it happens in the mainstream community. heck, it even happens among/between/from other UCers!

typically, i am told that i am dangerous, dogmatic, foolish, irresponsible, inexperienced, etc.

the next question is--does that hurt my feelings?

my feelings are my choice.

there are times when people are being mean. there are times when they are doing so intentionally, and times when it is unintentional.

sometimes i let my feelings get hurt, and sometimes i don't. it just depends upon where i'm coming from that day or moment.

but at the end of the day, i know who i am. i know what i believe and think and feel. i know what my birth experience was--and i know that no one else "being mean to me" or otherwise has that knowledge of who i am.

So, i answered the questions at the beginning of the thread--is there a place for mothers who have had and who will have c-sections in the NCB community? the answer is *yes*. is there a place for their stories and experiences? the answer to that is yes.

but no one seems to have cared about my answers, which sort of hurt my feelings. LOL (btw, i kid about that it didn't hurt my feelings and i don't care if no one else cares about or shares my opinions on the matter. )
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#147 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:36 PM
 
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the first question i see is this--are there people who judge other's births?

the answer to this question is yes. but those people exist both in and out of the natural birth advocacy communities.
This is true, one can and will likely be judged anywhere. I think a lot of judging exists due to ignorance and it shows someone's ignorance in information or just another person's situation.

A lot of people do judge UC-ers harshly just as others judge those who have had c/s harshly.

I hope we can all feel welcome and have a place here.

Kindness is really undervalued.

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#148 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:56 PM
 
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really good points, dogretro. C-section may be a choice at times, but it's certainly not a choice in the way that circ, CIO, hitting, or vaxes are choices. Many moms choose them in life-threatening situations, or because they have no other birth option given their circumstances. To say we can't discuss it, or for you to feel like you can't discuss your upcoming birth (including the option of electing a c-section) is really sad in a NBC.

I also like what you said about it being somewhat ridiculous that the only way MDC recognizes/hosts discussions about c-sections is under the category of "trauma." I can see how that would be really upsetting, and continue branding moms with the idea that their births were somehow lesser, or disappointing, or something we should all pity.

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#149 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 09:56 PM
 
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This discussion is really making me rethink where I fit as a "natural childbirth" advocate. Thank you all for your thoughts and contributions here.

Catholic wife in love.gifwith my husband, mom to superhero.gifx5,  babygirl.gifx2, angel1.gifx6. Birther of babes, baker of bread, and connoisseur of human folly. WINNER OF THE SILVER BIRTH STOOL, APRIL 2010 DDC! Happily hospital birthing with my BFF, Epidural Man.
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#150 of 260 Old 04-20-2010, 10:01 PM
 
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Thank you for your input


We really define that as "csection for no reason" and "the merits of" is key there. What that means is promoting c/s for no reason. So if someone is posting "Oh having a c/s so you have the baby in 2010 for tax reasons is a great idea!" now THAT we would remove. It does *not* apply to a mom who is having complications and going though heck, that would just be jerky.

If there is something going on no one wants to judge someone harshly for making choices they need to make.

If you have a lot of feelings about it why *can't* you post about it? I think there is a lot of confusion here. I am glad this conversation is taking place because it really is helping me to see this issue a bit more clearly.

I had a planned c/s due to complications and I was at the Mothering office not long after that and of course no one judged me. I received a lot of kindness, support and love.

If I receive that treatment from the people who work with the magazine everyday then I feel I should extend that same kindness to everyone else.

There is no rule that one has to be traumatized by a c/s.

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