Would you have felt this too "medicalized"- Hospital birth with CNM - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 03-05-2011, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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DD was born almost 2 years ago but I might be preggo again (too soon for pee-stick partywinky.gif) and it has got me thinking a lot about my birth with DD.

I won't recount the whole experience but what I am looking for is basically opinions about whether you feel what I describe below was a bit more "medicalized (is that a real word?)" than necessary?!

 

I had a 40 hour labor...Very exhausting but totally unmedicated in any way until after DD came out. More on that later.

 

So I really really loved my CNM. She is greatly experienced and extremely well respected in the area we live. I actually found her here in my tribal area. Very very laid back woman, seen it all and I feel like her BP has never risen an inch even a stressful situation. Just an extremely calming presence and I found that she helped me immensely in labor that way. There were a couple times I panicked a little bit (first baby and all) and just here mere presence would immediately calm me down and allow me to concentrate on laboring. She literally could just touch my arm and my breathing would slow and I would be able to get through a ctx calmly and quietly (not that it matters how loud I was, she was encouraging me to do deep moaning if I wanted, and I certainly did at the end) without feeling scared. 

 

I went to the hospital at 3am or so and DD was not born until 7pm and not once in this time did she start to  panic. I just a lot of laps around the tiny Labor and Delivery Unit. She made me eat and while I was in the tub did tons of nipple stimulation with the shower head that could come off the wall. That was actually like torture in some way it made the ctx sooo intense, and she would cheerfully say "just a couple more minutes you can do it!" It was annoying and funny. 

 

So when it came to pushing is where I was not so thrilled and looking back it bothers me even more. 

I started pushing when I was only around 6cm because I really felt the urge and she was totally encouraging about it. However, I spent a lot of time in tub and I felt like she was checking my cervix all the time. She even checked during a ctx, although in some ways it was helpful because she said she felt me open from a 6 to almost 7 in one ctx which was encouraging to me. When I got out of the tub I kneeled and held the back of the bed which was completely upright and pushed that way for a while...More cervix checking during that, oh and at this point they were using the stupid EFM (a portable one at least) on almost EVERY contraction. They were doing it all the time and it was somewhat annoying.

 

Finally she put me in the semi-reclining position for the final stage. Once again she had her fingers up in me what seemed like a ton. She was like pushing her fingers around DD's head (I could see in a mirror I requested) while DD was coming down the birth canal. I don't know if there was a lip of cervix or something she was trying to push past, I don't know a ton about those kinds of lips (haha that sounded stupid to me but I don't know how to word it) and I didn't give it much thought. I was also tearing pretty badly, she didn't do an episiotomy thank goodness. As DD was crowing they were STILL using the stupid EFM every single ctx (the nurse was) and MW was still doing something with her fingers around me. I honestly feel like part of the reason I tore so bad is because she was pushing them inside me past DD's head for some reason. 

MW also used olive oil I believe in some capacity I don't know what though. Finally DD came out and I had a PPH that required multiple injections of pit and super intense uterine massage. Very painful and she literally pulled the placenta out of me! I was not cool with that. DD's cord was also clamped immediately, not what I wanted but I guess necessary because of the PPH. 

 

Finally she dumped a bowl of really hot water all over me right after DD was born. It hurt like @%@^%# and one of the nurse's actually said to the MW "what are you doing!?" because I cried out in pain. 

 

Soo looking back on it, I feel like there was way more going on than was necessary, the EFM (probably hospital policy though) was never  strapped on me but they checked me with it all the time which was very distracting and the constant hands inside me and finally the way the final pushing part went. It was just so much more than I feel like I want now.

 

I love her, she is great but I am wondering if maybe there could be a better MW out there for me? DH will not ever be cool with a HB because of how much blood he saw pouring out of me, he admits now that he was really really scared I was going to be in serious trouble, and I don't want to do one if he isn't comfortable..

 

I am so sorry this turned into a novel, it is still an emotional thing that I haven't examined enough I think. Would you be comfortable using the same MW and just talking about it or would that have been too much medical intervention for you in general? I'm just curious if people would have been disappointed by all of it?

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#2 of 27 Old 03-05-2011, 08:29 PM
 
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I'm a labor and delivery nurse and what you describe is a pretty typical low intervention hospital birth with a CNM.  The continuous monitoring during pushing especially; I've only seen it happen twice where the patient didn't have continuous monitoring during the second stage.  That being said, if it's not the type of care you want for your next birth, you could interview a home birth midwife or one that works at a freestanding birth center---you would typically not have as many vaginal exams or as much monitoring in those settings.

 

Also, you probably will dialate and birth more quickly with a second child and since you've had a vaginal birth before, there would most likely be less anxiety about your ability to birth etc, so it's entirely possible that with this midwife, a second birth would be more hands off.

 

 

 

 


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#3 of 27 Old 03-05-2011, 08:47 PM
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I had my second dd without continuous monitoring during any stage in a hospital with an OB. 

 

My labor was pretty short, though. 

 

(My first dd was also born without continuous monitoring, in another hospital with a CNM.  That was also a short labor.) 

 

So much depends on the individual practitioner.  In hindsight, which I loved the CNM who was with me for most of my labor with my first dd, the shift changed and the I really did not care for the second CNM's approach.  She did perineal massage without asking me first, and she tugged on the umbilical cord to deliver the placenta.  I would pick the OB I met 15 minutes before my second dd was born over that particular CNM any day.  The OB was incredibly respectful of my preferences and checked with me before doing anything.  But really, if I could choose anyone in the world to assist me in labor, it would be the first CNM from my labor with my first child. 

 

 

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#4 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cileag View Post

I'm a labor and delivery nurse and what you describe is a pretty typical low intervention hospital birth with a CNM.  The continuous monitoring during pushing especially; I've only seen it happen twice where the patient didn't have continuous monitoring during the second stage.  That being said, if it's not the type of care you want for your next birth, you could interview a home birth midwife or one that works at a freestanding birth center---you would typically not have as many vaginal exams or as much monitoring in those settings.

 

Also, you probably will dialate and birth more quickly with a second child and since you've had a vaginal birth before, there would most likely be less anxiety about your ability to birth etc, so it's entirely possible that with this midwife, a second birth would be more hands off.

 

 

 

 


Thank you so much for your perspective!

My MW actually said something to the effect when I was complaining about how long it was taking that I was basically laying the tracks for baby #2 to be much faster. I also did have some anxiety (as most first time mamas do I think) about the whole thing. 

 

I think the biggest issue I had was with her hands in me while DD was coming down. I can always talk to her about that.

Your perspective is EXACTLY what I wanted to hear! I just didn't know if I could do better in a hospital setting.

I do like my MW a lot and I imagine if I talk to her about my issues she will be more than happy to try alternatives.

 

At the time I was pretty much happy with the whole experience except for the whole pulling on the cord to yank the placenta out but maybe that was a reaction to the PPH?? I don't know, I never saw my medical records (which I already requested) so I don't know the details of that situation other than I as bleeding "a lot" and needed help stopping it. I imagine it was because after 40 hours of labor my body didn't have much left to give.

 

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#5 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 10:07 AM
 
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Wow, yanking out the placenta is more likely the cause of pph than a reaction to it, but I wasn't there. Rushing the placenta and over-management of the third stage often causes pph. Also, I would not have been at all cool with hands up in my vagina that much (or at all). This entire pregnancy no hands have been anywhere near my vagina except my husband's but for other reasons lol.gif

 

Likely some of the tearing was caused by her intervention, but again no one can say for sure. The hot water pouring on you seems.... very odd... I also would have balked a lot at the invasive monitoring when you were doing your thing.

 

To me,  the birth sounds very managed and I wouldn't have been cool with it. You say several times she "made" you do this or that -- I realize no one can "make" you but it seems like things were suggested heavily that went against what you would have preferred at the time. I think laboring women should be left to do exactly what they want and how they want without any inference or "help" unless they ask specifically for it, or unless something seems grievously wrong. Births that are treated that way seem to have the best outcomes from my perspective. However, that seems to be a difficult thing to attain these days, even in home births. Which is why we've chosen UC :)

 

I don't think it would hurt at all to check around should you become pregnant again. You may get an even better experience next time with less management.


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#6 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Tumble Bumbles View Post

Wow, yanking out the placenta is more likely the cause of pph than a reaction to it, but I wasn't there. Rushing the placenta and over-management of the third stage often causes pph. Also, I would not have been at all cool with hands up in my vagina that much (or at all). This entire pregnancy no hands have been anywhere near my vagina except my husband's but for other reasons lol.gif

 

Likely some of the tearing was caused by her intervention, but again no one can say for sure. The hot water pouring on you seems.... very odd... I also would have balked a lot at the invasive monitoring when you were doing your thing.

 

To me,  the birth sounds very managed and I wouldn't have been cool with it. You say several times she "made" you do this or that -- I realize no one can "make" you but it seems like things were suggested heavily that went against what you would have preferred at the time. I think laboring women should be left to do exactly what they want and how they want without any inference or "help" unless they ask specifically for it, or unless something seems grievously wrong. Births that are treated that way seem to have the best outcomes from my perspective. However, that seems to be a difficult thing to attain these days, even in home births. Which is why we've chosen UC :)

 

I don't think it would hurt at all to check around should you become pregnant again. You may get an even better experience next time with less management.


 

I would agree with this in part but...I was already starting to bleed before DD was out and before DD was actually born she was telling the nurses to get the pit ready because she knew a PPH was coming. I very specifically remember this because one nurse wanted to do an injection before DD was out and she said wait until after. 

 

To the second bolded thing, I think you bring up a very very interesting point I am going to discuss with DH just to get his input as he was there and all. I don't think at any particular point she said you "have" to do this, but she definitely was in charge of the situation. Very much encouraged me to walk. Insisted gently but firmly on nipple stimulation with the shower head (she did it herself) and said "I want to try pushing this way"

I think because it was my first labor I was really not going to question her and to be fair i had been in labor for a long time. I ended up laboring in the hospital alone for 17 hours. I feel lucky I wasn't feeling some pressure to augment labor, although she did suggest possibly breaking my water at some point....I said I wanted to discuss it with DH, which she was cool with, and my water broke literally 2 minutes later. 

 

There are few options within a reasonable distance where we live so that is another factor. If DH would just be cool with a HB then that would be a whole different story!

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#7 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 05:01 PM
 
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she does sound like she feels the need to be in complete control of the situation (which, unfortunately, doesn't seem at all uncommon). it also sounds like you weren't entirely comfortable with how she was handling things, and that can contribute to PPH. bleeding before the baby is born is weird, and usually considered a sign that something is off (in my case it was a symptom of low platelet count), but stressing you out by saying that you were going to hemorrhage could have made the bleeding worse, as could have yanking the placenta out before the blood vessels have a chance to close. 

 

oh, and the OB who was on call when I had my daughter did perineal fanning without telling me and without consent, and it was the most painful thing about giving birth. 


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#8 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 05:44 PM
 
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If they know the PPH is coming, it make sense to very actively manage the delivery of the placenta.  The uterus can't begin to contract back down (reducing bleeding) until the placenta is out, so the pit and the cord traction make a lot of sense.

 

It's really important to check the fetal response to contractions - hence the monitoring then - but having to stand still for a midwife with a doppler each contraction would have made me nuts.  The wireless telemetry units for efm are much easier to cope with, even if the belts are a tad itchy. 

 

I had uterine massage for PPH, and some parts of the placenta removed by hand, and it sucked.  I hated it.  It was worse than the birth, I just wanted them to go away and stop touching me.  But it helped stop the hemorrhage.  So those things, I feel, were okay.

 

All those cervical checks seem like an infection risk, and big, giant, wtf to the bowl of hot water.  We send people to boil water to keep them out of the way, not because we need to be doused post-partum.

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#9 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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If they know the PPH is coming, it make sense to very actively manage the delivery of the placenta.  The uterus can't begin to contract back down (reducing bleeding) until the placenta is out, so the pit and the cord traction make a lot of sense.

 

It's really important to check the fetal response to contractions - hence the monitoring then - but having to stand still for a midwife with a doppler each contraction would have made me nuts.  The wireless telemetry units for efm are much easier to cope with, even if the belts are a tad itchy. 

 

I had uterine massage for PPH, and some parts of the placenta removed by hand, and it sucked.  I hated it.  It was worse than the birth, I just wanted them to go away and stop touching me.  But it helped stop the hemorrhage.  So those things, I feel, were okay.

 

All those cervical checks seem like an infection risk, and big, giant, wtf to the bowl of hot water.  We send people to boil water to keep them out of the way, not because we need to be doused post-partum.



To the first bolded part: I know exactly how you feel. I had 2 nurses massaging my uterus, 1 nurse trying to get DD to latch on to help my uterus contract, MW pulling out chunks of placenta (it didn't come out all at once, I looked at it after) and me in the middle trying to enjoy my little new friend. It was way way more chaotic than I wanted it to be and very very painful. It honestly was more painful at points than birthing DD.

 

To the second bolded part: I felt the same way and still do actually. I have NEVER heard anyone else here mention their MW dousing them with a hot bowl of water. Did I mention I had a ton of stitches in that area?! It hurt like @%#. The only thing I can think of was she was trying to get a view that was obstructed by flowing blood or something.

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#10 of 27 Old 03-06-2011, 07:59 PM
 
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I really agree with a lot of what Tumble Bumbles said about how the MW was subtly bossing you around... and as a first time mama, of course you were really sort of vulnerable to that. My 2nd birth was in a hospital with a CNM, and maybe because it *was* a 2nd birth and they weren't worried about my "ability" to birth they (the CNM & my one lovely nurse) pretty well left me alone in the tub with my dh there to do whatever seemed appropriate to me. I don't remember ONE vaginal check, but I'm sure I had a couple, definitely one as soon as I got to the hospital. I really don't think they checked me once I was in the tub! My nurse would come do a quick doppler check of the baby once every ... hour? Idk. Not often enough to annoy me. I had a pretty short labor, as well, 7ish hours, but NO ONE was touching me anywhere vaginally when I was pushing and he was crowning. I barely tore at all, didn't need stitches.

 

I did technically PPH, just sort of over the line, and I think they gave me a shot of pit, and the massage was a bit painful, but I don't think anyone was pulling on my cord - my CNM actually ran in late (she said her short legs just weren't getting her there fast enough, lol) and I was already nursing my son, but she had just barely missed the birth and I think my placenta came out pretty much right behind him. She immediately began doing stuff to stop the bleeding, and it didn't take long. She was great, but had she been there, hovering over me, telling me "do this" or "I think you need to do that" I would've gone insane, even in such a short period of time. I would've been spraying that shower head right back in her face, but then that's just the kind of person I can be when someone isn't listening to what I'm saying. And I know that some women want and need a really supportive, sort of motherly influence in their midwives, but that's just not how I am. The nurse would ask me occasionally if she could get me anything to eat or drink, and did when I wanted it. Dh just hung out there in the tub room with me (the hospital only had one, a couple doors down from the room I delivered in, because they didn't allow waterbirth).

 

And like everyone else, what on EARTH with the water?? Perhaps she didn't realize just how hot it was, thought it was more of a warm, soothing thing? Bizarre, either way. No one dumped any water on me!

 

I would go through your records, your thoughts, and write down your questions about this, that, and the other thing, take them back to the MW you had before, and ask her to go through and explain things to you from her perspective. How she handled that would really tell me a lot about whether or not I wanted her around any more, plus hopefully clear up some very reasonable questions you have! (Like, "Why were your hands up my hoohah every ten seconds when it was obvious the baby was coming whether you did anything or not?")

 

To sort of contrast all the attention to your vagina, my current CNM - who runs a freestanding birth center - doesn't do vaginal exams prenatally, and only does them ON REQUEST during labor, or if something seems to be going wrong (prolapsed cord, strange presentation, that kind of thing) and everyone needs to know what's happening. Either way, she wouldn't do it without at least letting the mama know she was about to... that really tweaked me, that it seemed like people (like your mw) were doing things to you, very intimate things during what should be a very intimate experience, like vaginal exams, like nipple stimulation, even monitoring, without even telling you, "I'm about to do this.." or "is it ok if I do this now?" and giving you the time (and respect!) to answer or question their request. It's YOUR BODY, even when you're pushing a baby out of it!!

 

Hope this was somewhat helpful to you! :)

 


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#11 of 27 Old 03-07-2011, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Lizzie you raise a good point, it could very well have been just likewarm water but because I had a large tear it felt like BOILING water. Sooo painful, like I said I figure it was just to clear junk away so she could start stitching or something who knows..

 

It is becoming increasingly likely with each passing day that I am in fact pregnant again so I am going to go get a blood test with MW from first birth and request medical records before I go in for that. I will review them and then have some questions to ask...

 

I also will add that I was very very vulnerable! We did not allow my mom in the birthing room but she did come to visit for literally 2 minutes. In that time she managed to break down my will and I was telling DH I WANTED an epidural. The only thing that kept me from asking for one to my MW was literally the embarrassment of asking her for one. I never did ask her but now I wonder if it was such a good thing that I was too embarrassed to ask her? I need to be able to say anything to her you know?!

 

I am trying desperate to convince DH if I am really pregnant for a HB but the PPH freaked him out bad last time and he just won't listen to logic. That is a discussion for the HB forum though.

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#12 of 27 Old 03-07-2011, 06:02 AM
 
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Well, whether or not anyone here feels it's "too medicalized" isn't really relevant.  What's relevant is what YOU are comfortable.

 

What you describe with how often she was checking you and hands up there all the time is weird to me.  All three of my births were hospital births with an OB, and I didn't have as much checking and hands up there as you are describing.  In any of the three with three different OBs, in 2 different hospitals, one of them a fairly old fashioned catholic hospital (15 years ago.) 

 

And the pulling on the placenta is weird to me too.  Again, never happened in the situations that most here seem to think that sort of thing happens all the time.

 

The hot water thing...maybe she was trying to clean up from the hemorrage?  I did not have a hemorrage, but I had a small...not really a tear...not really a "skidmark"..I guess just an "injury" would be the word?  Any, that was this last time around, and my OB did have to wash me up to check to see if it was something that needed or stitch or need any treatment or anything.  Just a soft warm wet cloth though, not dumping hot water there. 

 

Perhaps there was something going on, something that could or was indicating a problem, or the start of one, and she didn't want to stress you about it?  Maybe that's why she was doing all these strange things?

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#13 of 27 Old 03-08-2011, 07:39 AM
 
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I would suspect, based on your description, that there was a cervical lip that she was trying to hold out of the way of the baby's head, which is why her hands were up in there so much.  I had a bit of a lip during early pushing with DD, and my HB MW held it out of the way while I was pushing, but it was too uncomfortable for me so she stopped.  The other things she was doing probably had a good reason, too (I'd guess the water was trying to wash away the blood so she could repair a tear perhaps?  Or see if you were still actively bleeding?) 

 

I can't understand why your MW wouldn't just tell you that's what she was doing, though?  That, to me, is the red flag here.  It sounds to me like she kept doing things to you without telling you why she wanted to do them and receiving your consent.  For me, that would be a dealbreaker.  I mean, if I was going to dump water on someone, I'd sure as %$&# say to them beforehand, "Um, I'm going to dump some water on you, is that OK?"  The fact that she didn't do this (at least, according to your account) makes me highly concerned -- it sounds to me like she was so involved in "managing" you that she forgot that you were the active agent in the process.  That would NOT be ok with me. 

 

The good news is, I think this would be a fairly easy issue to resolve.  If you like this MW otherwise and want to go back to her, it would be easy enough to say to her (and write in your birth plan in BIG BOLDED LETTERS) that you want her to discuss everything she's doing with you before she does it, and receive your express verbal consent for it.  If she agrees, and you think you and your DH can work together to ensure that this happens (it might mean stopping her/other people and saying, "wait, what are you doing now?"), then I wouldn't have too much concern about going back to her, personally. 


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#14 of 27 Old 03-08-2011, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I would suspect, based on your description, that there was a cervical lip that she was trying to hold out of the way of the baby's head, which is why her hands were up in there so much.  I had a bit of a lip during early pushing with DD, and my HB MW held it out of the way while I was pushing, but it was too uncomfortable for me so she stopped.  The other things she was doing probably had a good reason, too (I'd guess the water was trying to wash away the blood so she could repair a tear perhaps?  Or see if you were still actively bleeding?) 

 

I can't understand why your MW wouldn't just tell you that's what she was doing, though?  That, to me, is the red flag here.  It sounds to me like she kept doing things to you without telling you why she wanted to do them and receiving your consent.  For me, that would be a dealbreaker.  I mean, if I was going to dump water on someone, I'd sure as %$&# say to them beforehand, "Um, I'm going to dump some water on you, is that OK?"  The fact that she didn't do this (at least, according to your account) makes me highly concerned -- it sounds to me like she was so involved in "managing" you that she forgot that you were the active agent in the process.  That would NOT be ok with me. 

 

The good news is, I think this would be a fairly easy issue to resolve.  If you like this MW otherwise and want to go back to her, it would be easy enough to say to her (and write in your birth plan in BIG BOLDED LETTERS) that you want her to discuss everything she's doing with you before she does it, and receive your express verbal consent for it.  If she agrees, and you think you and your DH can work together to ensure that this happens (it might mean stopping her/other people and saying, "wait, what are you doing now?"), then I wouldn't have too much concern about going back to her, personally. 


I think you are pretty spot on. I do think there is a reason she was doing what she was doing but not once did she ever tell me why! Why she was constantly putting her hands in me. Why she did the water thing, or at least a warning would have been nice. I don't think she was just doing things because she felt like it would be fun, I'm sure there was a reason.

 

Honestly I would keep her if she could do HBs but she is not allowed so we aren't going to use her again. I really like her for the most part I just feel like she was doing what she was doing without thinking about how confused I was at the time. Easily remedied by talking to her about it but irrelevant because I am working hard on DH for a HB this time around. 

 

She is a great lady and good at her job, just not what I want at this point.

 

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#15 of 27 Old 03-08-2011, 10:31 AM
 
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I would agree that you are the one who has to decide if your birth was too medicalized.

 

I think it could potentially be helpful for you to look over your records, but the CNM wrote what she thought was going on from her POV, not necessarily what was actually happening.

 

It would have been best to talk to her then about what went on soon afterwards. I mean, just because you were bleeding when dd was coming out, doesn't mean that you were hemorrhaging, or about to. Maybe it was from your cervix being manipulated so roughly, maybe it was the placenta beginning to detach from the borders. The fact that she was manually pulling out chunks is pretty crazy, if she was pulling out the placenta and pieces were left in I think there is a good chance that it wasn't ready. If you were hemorrhaging and it needing to come out, it seems like it would have been much better for her go in there and manually remove it. But then again, she may have just been removing clots, not actual placenta. Clots can make it harder for the uterus to clamp down, and they are uncomfortable to pass, but I think some providers are a little over-zealous about their removal. Really, I think a lot of CP's are over-zealous about 3rd stage in general, and it tends to cause problems (both physical and psychological). Because now you and your DH think you "have a hemorrhaging problem" even though all you may have had was a poorly managed 3rd stage. It sounds at least like the possibility exists that your CNM was one of those.

 

I would check out some of Ina May Gaskin's and Henci Goer's work about 3rd stage management and outcomes for you to show DH. If that's an issue for him, it might help him work through his fears.

 

 


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I would agree that you are the one who has to decide if your birth was too medicalized.

 

I think it could potentially be helpful for you to look over your records, but the CNM wrote what she thought was going on from her POV, not necessarily what was actually happening.

 

It would have been best to talk to her then about what went on soon afterwards. I mean, just because you were bleeding when dd was coming out, doesn't mean that you were hemorrhaging, or about to. Maybe it was from your cervix being manipulated so roughly, maybe it was the placenta beginning to detach from the borders. The fact that she was manually pulling out chunks is pretty crazy, if she was pulling out the placenta and pieces were left in I think there is a good chance that it wasn't ready. If you were hemorrhaging and it needing to come out, it seems like it would have been much better for her go in there and manually remove it. But then again, she may have just been removing clots, not actual placenta. Clots can make it harder for the uterus to clamp down, and they are uncomfortable to pass, but I think some providers are a little over-zealous about their removal. Really, I think a lot of CP's are over-zealous about 3rd stage in general, and it tends to cause problems (both physical and psychological). Because now you and your DH think you "have a hemorrhaging problem" even though all you may have had was a poorly managed 3rd stage. It sounds at least like the possibility exists that your CNM was one of those.

 

I would check out some of Ina May Gaskin's and Henci Goer's work about 3rd stage management and outcomes for you to show DH. If that's an issue for him, it might help him work through his fears.

 

 


Hmm, interesting points. I assumed that the pulling was the standard for getting the placenta out when you need to, I had no idea manually removing it was even really an optionbag.gif

 

I wish I had known to talk about it with her after. At our 6 week appointment I was basically complaining about all the women I read about who 2 hours after giving birth are taking a shower and walking around the house and doing stuff like nothing happened. I still felt like I had been hit by a truck at times.  It has also taken me a while to come to question exactly how happy I was with the birth and if things could have been a lot different.

 

I have a couple Ina May books boxed up somewhere and those are coming back out. DH needs to read them, unlike the first time around when he skimmed them and I will specifically focus on 3rd stage management. Thank you for the tip!

 

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#17 of 27 Old 03-08-2011, 10:59 PM
 
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What you describe seems very controlled... I do know that my MW was gentle but firm in requesting me to change to this or that position when I was in labour with DS. She just knew when I wasn't making any progress. She did have fingers inside often, both to measure progress as well as to help baby's head get past the cervix. I don't remember any pulling of the placenta, just hands on my abdomen and a request for me to push. Certainly no touching of my nipples! (I have heard, though, that that causes the body to release hormones that support the labouring process.) I had warm, moist cloths placed in the perinerial area during and after birth - no water was dumped on me. The fetal monitoring frequency was more than likely a hospital policy. I complained about the same thing to my doula for this pregnancy and she said it's the hospital's policy to check the heartbeat with the doppler every 15min, but she also told me the nurses are reluctant to get wet and suggested that I labour in the tub this time if it suits me, hint hint, lol! 

 

It sounds like your MW is experienced in what works to keep things moving along - and that might have saved you from a section at the hands of a lesser practitioner - but it also sounds like she failed to thoroughly set expectations and communicate what she was doing and why. It seems like she took a definitive lead without making sure both of you were on the same page. My personality is such that if I didn't like or want to do something I'd say so (and I did). Could she have taken your moments of indecision for mute agreement?


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All those cervical checks seem like an infection risk, and big, giant, wtf to the bowl of hot water.  We send people to boil water to keep them out of the way, not because we need to be doused post-partum.



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My MW used warm, moist clothes on my bits to help soothe things. I've never heard of someone dumping hot water on you -ouch.  My MW also only did cervical checks when/if I requested them, but then again my labor was short (4 hours total) and my MW was very hands off. 

 

If there isn't a more suitable MW in your area, I'd contact her and request a meeting regarding a few questions about your birth. It doesn't have to be anything dour or serious, but maybe say to be better prepared for this time around you want more info about that birth. Maybe just hearing her explanations about how she handled things might give you more confidence on how to proceed.


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#19 of 27 Old 03-09-2011, 09:14 AM
 
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For another perspective--

 

I had an extremely hands-off HB midwife.  During my 3rd day of active labor I had a strong cervical lip and my cervix wasn't budging much past 7cms even with a 15 hour unbearable urge to push.  My midwife had her hands in there manipulating my cervix MUCH more than she had ever needed to any any other birth. 

 

It was horribly intrusive, I HATED it, but I wanted it at the same time because I knew I was headed for a c-section transfer. 

 

My guess is that she did it to help you avoid a c-section.  You probably had a hard lip keeping you from going to 10 while pushing.  I'm glad it worked in your case! 

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For another perspective--

 

I had an extremely hands-off HB midwife.  During my 3rd day of active labor I had a strong cervical lip and my cervix wasn't budging much past 7cms even with a 15 hour unbearable urge to push.  My midwife had her hands in there manipulating my cervix MUCH more than she had ever needed to any any other birth. 

 

It was horribly intrusive, I HATED it, but I wanted it at the same time because I knew I was headed for a c-section transfer. 

 

My guess is that she did it to help you avoid a c-section.  You probably had a hard lip keeping you from going to 10 while pushing.  I'm glad it worked in your case! 


Thank you for your perspective! Very interesting and I am glad that your MW was able to help you past such a rough spot in labor.

Honestly I don't know if I had a "hard lip" or any lip at all because at no point did she mention anything to me about what was going on. I didn't ask only because I was really distracted and assumed that she was doing what she always does. I probably had a lip but it would have gone a long way to explain that to me and tell me why she was doing what she was doing. She never gave me the impression I was headed anywhere near a c-section when I was pushing. I also didn't feel really bad when pushing. Pushing to me was actually the best part of the whole thing, it felt really productive and instead of just painful I got far more of the urge to push which almost covered the pain a bit.

I requested my records in writing from the office today so those should be in the mail soon and then I will be able to see from her perspective what was going down. I do know there was copious note taking throughout the whole thing by nurses and the MW periodically.

 

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How's the baby?

 

Can you talk to your midwife and ask her to walk through why she did what she did?  There are probably reasons for what she did, whether or not you agree to them.  And she can get your feedback on what you did and did not like.

 

I think feedback is important.  She probably thought everything went well and you were pleased.  I would have thought so too based on what you posted.  But if you are not, then she should hear this so she can explain why she did what she did, or if she agrees with your concerns, she can change what she does.

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How's the baby?

 

Can you talk to your midwife and ask her to walk through why she did what she did?  There are probably reasons for what she did, whether or not you agree to them.  And she can get your feedback on what you did and did not like.

 

I think feedback is important.  She probably thought everything went well and you were pleased.  I would have thought so too based on what you posted.  But if you are not, then she should hear this so she can explain why she did what she did, or if she agrees with your concerns, she can change what she does.



I don't know if I mentioned this before, I thought I did, sorry for not making it clear if I didn't...Baby is now a toddler hehe. This was my first birth almost 2 years ago! The reason I am asking is because I am pg again and it is bringing up a lot of emotions about how the first birth went. Things that I didn't really examine at the time and only had slight inklings that things weren't completely the way I had hoped. It wasn't a bad labor or birth it was just....It is so hard to describe the feeling like there was something missing and if I could just find the words to explain it everyone would understand...Wow how is that for confusing eh? 

 

DH said to me, "well everything was fine last time, so why do you care now?" Thats just it, it was FINE, not good, not great, not horrible. I guess I am just selfish because I want more than finegreensad.gif

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(Bolding mine)

 

I totally understand. That's exactly how I felt about my first birth, which was a 'successful' homebirth with a midwife who comes highly recommended in the community. I didn't feel the ~~connection~~ you're "supposed" to feel with your midwife, I didn't feel 100% comfortable with her and her assistant witnessing and managing (no matter how lightly) my birth. I didn't feel like it went the way I hoped even though it went totally perfect by all outside standards. I just didn't feel the way I wanted to feel and how I felt I could have felt had I been left completely on my own without witnesses, just me and my husband sharing a very intimate moment -- which is what ultimately led me to Unassisted Childbirth.

 

I understand that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I totally understand what you mean! You do deserve better than "fine" and a healthy baby isn't the only important thing. Sure, it may be the most important goal, but it's not the only one...and doesn't have to be.
 

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I don't know if I mentioned this before, I thought I did, sorry for not making it clear if I didn't...Baby is now a toddler hehe. This was my first birth almost 2 years ago! The reason I am asking is because I am pg again and it is bringing up a lot of emotions about how the first birth went. Things that I didn't really examine at the time and only had slight inklings that things weren't completely the way I had hoped. It wasn't a bad labor or birth it was just....It is so hard to describe the feeling like there was something missing and if I could just find the words to explain it everyone would understand...Wow how is that for confusing eh? 

 

DH said to me, "well everything was fine last time, so why do you care now?" Thats just it, it was FINE, not good, not great, not horrible. I guess I am just selfish because I want more than finegreensad.gif



 

 


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#24 of 27 Old 03-09-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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Like Tumble Bumbles, I do understand what you mean. My first birth was in a hospital with a CNM: water broke, GBS+, contractions weren't picking up quickly enough, pit augmentation, epidural, big tear (3rd degree). I was healthy, my baby (now a toddler) was healthy but I was disappointed. Second time around I planned a homebirth with a CPM but after a long labor, a definite cervical lip and no urge to push, we ended up transferring. Got pit, some IV pain relief, rested a bit and I finally pushed my son out just to get labor over with. Again I was healthy (2nd degree tear this time), my baby was healthy but I am left disappointed again and also embarrassed that I had to transfer.

 

It seems that a healthy mom and baby are the only criteria for a "successful birth" but I feel like there should be more to it.


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Like Tumble Bumbles, I do understand what you mean. My first birth was in a hospital with a CNM: water broke, GBS+, contractions weren't picking up quickly enough, pit augmentation, epidural, big tear (3rd degree). I was healthy, my baby (now a toddler) was healthy but I was disappointed. Second time around I planned a homebirth with a CPM but after a long labor, a definite cervical lip and no urge to push, we ended up transferring. Got pit, some IV pain relief, rested a bit and I finally pushed my son out just to get labor over with. Again I was healthy (2nd degree tear this time), my baby was healthy but I am left disappointed again and also embarrassed that I had to transfer.

 

It seems that a healthy mom and baby are the only criteria for a "successful birth" but I feel like there should be more to it.


I agree, don't get me wrong, I would deal with and endure anything to ensure my baby was born safely....but, if I can make sure my baby is born safely and in such a way that it only enhances the well-being of baby and mama and it is a life-changing event for the whole family, why wouldn't I want that? This is a new thing to me but apparently it is selfish to want both and not just be content being in a hospital and being treated like there is always a major problem peeking around the corner. People really do you think you are selfish for wanting a healthy baby AND....and whatever it is that each individual mama wants, it is the AND that people get really worked up about. 

 

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I agree, don't get me wrong, I would deal with and endure anything to ensure my baby was born safely....but, if I can make sure my baby is born safely and in such a way that it only enhances the well-being of baby and mama and it is a life-changing event for the whole family, why wouldn't I want that? This is a new thing to me but apparently it is selfish to want both and not just be content being in a hospital and being treated like there is always a major problem peeking around the corner. People really do you think you are selfish for wanting a healthy baby AND....and whatever it is that each individual mama wants, it is the AND that people get really worked up about. 

 

 

(emphasis mine)

 

They DO get really worked up about that AND, don't they?? What "they" (those who don't have that "I want more than fine" ideal) don't seem to realize is that ultimately the "AND details" are in the best interest of everyone involved. And that includes any birth attendants we choose to have present. IMHO, it's a given that it's in the best interest of our babies, ourselves, and our families. How can educating ourselves and being stronger and more confident mamas with ideals be detrimental?

 

We're congratulated for being well-prepared and educated consumers in pretty much every other field of consumerism - and we ARE consumers in the industry of obstetrics & maternity & midwifery and such - but torn down for it as mothers who know what they want. Illogical at best!!

 

Sorry - guess that's a bit off topic from the OP's original thoughts and questions, but my point is to validate her desire for more understanding of her first birth which will hopefully lead to an even more fulfilling 2nd birthing experience for everyone... Her dh deserves to go through a birth that doesn't leave him fearing the loss of his wife and child as much s she deserves to have MORE than "fine". If the mw had (thought to, been able to, been willing to) talked them both through what was happening, he too would have benefitted from that info, so hopefully this next birth will fill in a lot of blanks for the whole family.

 

Just saying. :)

 


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very well put lizzie. Much more articulate than I could ever possibly be.

I really do feel like it is in the best interest of everyone for me to research and educate myself even more than I thought I had. Then we as a family can make an informed decision and in mt humble opinion HB is what will be best for everyone. DH isn't there yet but I have faith as he already is speaking in affirmative tones about HB...Joking about how we are going to break it to relatives etc...I am waiting for my records from my last pregnancy/birth in the mail and I am really going forward to just going through them and seeing what the medical point of view of the whole situation was.

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