If You Are Having A Baby In The Hospital, Have A Lawyer On Call... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 03-30-2011, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#2 of 27 Old 03-30-2011, 04:58 PM
 
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This sort of thing is one of the many reasons why I am not having my baby in a hospital!  It is mine and my husband's child, end of discussion!

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#3 of 27 Old 03-30-2011, 05:42 PM
 
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If they signed the medical release form from the Ped, why was that not enough for everyone? I would think that the ped's decision would override the nurse. Why wasn't the ped involved more?
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#4 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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so scary.


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#5 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 10:43 AM
 
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Yes, its sad that the nurse over-stepped bounds. I brought one of mine home from a great , natural hospital birth with mild jaundice.... no biggie. They just gave me a slip of paper that said "check in with your pediatrician".
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#6 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 10:49 AM
 
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On one hand, I can see the legal staff at the hospital saying, "If we allow that jaundiced baby to go home and it turns out she has a problem with her liver, we're gonna be on the hook for a big payout when mom and dad get sue happy."  A signed release doesn't always protect a provider.

 

On the other hand, though, that nurse was seriously overstepping her boundaries.  Especially in light of the fact that a pediatrician who is on staff at the same hospital where all of this was taking place felt the baby could go home.

 

If the hospital is allowed to do this, though, where does it end?  Not allowing a baby to go home if the mother is bottle feeding?  Not allowing a baby to go home if the parents are anti-vax? 

 

Big Brother really needs to get out of our uteri.


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#7 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 10:56 AM
 
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My baby born recently had jaundice and although I did make a decision to stay for 24 hours for light therapy I had a great nurse who came in my room, closed the door, and made sure I understood that this was MY decision to make and that the peds there tend to be on the more conservative side regarding treatment.  She was awesome and my favorite nurse of the whole stay.

 

This story is horrible and I have to say that there was a lot of pressure from the doctors in my experience.  I am guessing that kind of pressure occurs a lot.  But, there are some good nurses out there who do care about parent/patients rights!


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#8 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:01 AM
 
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Big Brother really needs to get out of our uteri.


Absolutely... vote for folks who believe in a woman's and family's right to choose!
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#9 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:10 AM
 
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I wonder what the baby's bili number was...

 

I disagree with what the hospital did.  But I disagree with the idea that having a baby in the hospital automatically means get a lawyer.  The fact that this made the news means that it's pretty atypical.  It sounds to me like this was one nurse on a power trip.  As for security/CPS, I imagine that once they get a call like that, especially since we don't know what the nurse told them, they would be negligent if they didn't step in.

 

I wonder what the other docs note said.

 

And I wonder why they weren't offered a bili blanket, either in the hospital or to take home? 

 

Really just a weird situation all around.

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#10 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:22 AM
 
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I read in an other article they were homebirth transfers and treated pretty horribly by the nurse the whole time.  Also she was told she could not nurse her baby and that she would be put in isolation and formula fed until the jaundice cleared up.  BUT the pediatrician agreed to let them go home and nurse and get re-tested in a day or two.  It was the nurse that called the cops and social services.  I have a feeling she stretched the truth too, to get them there.


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#11 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:24 AM
 
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If the hospital is allowed to do this, though, where does it end?  Not allowing a baby to go home if the mother is bottle feeding?  Not allowing a baby to go home if the parents are anti-vax? 

But it's a really fine line and I imagine one that's hard to walk.  What if this baby's numbers had been at brain damaging or even life threatening levels (I assume not in this case since the article said minor)?  At what point does protection of the child trump the parents rights to refuse medical treatment?  I am not saying that this is that type of case, just that I imagine that's not an easy decision to make when the time comes.  

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But it's a really fine line and I imagine one that's hard to walk.  What if this baby's numbers had been at brain damaging or even life threatening levels (I assume not in this case since the article said minor)?  At what point does protection of the child trump the parents rights to refuse medical treatment?  I am not saying that this is that type of case, just that I imagine that's not an easy decision to make when the time comes.  


These people had a second opinion, though. I honestly can't imagine anybody willing to put themsevles through a hospital transfer for the sake of the baby, and then completely disregarding medical advice in the fashion you're talking about. They got a second opinion, and then they wanted to leave.

 

I'[m probably a bit sour on this one, though. I kept getting woken up to feed my "jaundiced" baby, and he wasn't jaundiced at all. One of the nurses put on his chart that she thought he was (everybody else consistently commented on his excellent colour - there was NO hint of jaundice). Another nurse noted that he was still jaundiced the next night, immediately after commenting in my hearing that "it's pretty dark in here - I can't tell, but he probably still is" - that's the basis of a note in his file!

 


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#13 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:36 AM
 
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These people had a second opinion, though. I honestly can't imagine anybody willing to put themsevles through a hospital transfer for the sake of the baby, and then completely disregarding medical advice in the fashion you're talking about. They got a second opinion, and then they wanted to leave.

 

I'[m probably a bit sour on this one, though. I kept getting woken up to feed my "jaundiced" baby, and he wasn't jaundiced at all. One of the nurses put on his chart that she thought he was (everybody else consistently commented on his excellent colour - there was NO hint of jaundice). Another nurse noted that he was still jaundiced the next night, immediately after commenting in my hearing that "it's pretty dark in here - I can't tell, but he probably still is" - that's the basis of a note in his file!

 


And that's why I said I am not saying this case is one of those.  However....people are stupid.  And I am sure nurses in a hospital deal with the stupidest of the stupidest at times.  Just because you can't imagine someone doing that....I am sure it happens.  I think the line from Men in Black goes "A person is smart.  People are dumb, ignorant and stupid."  

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#14 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 11:47 AM
 
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And that's why I said I am not saying this case is one of those.  However....people are stupid.  And I am sure nurses in a hospital deal with the stupidest of the stupidest at times.  Just because you can't imagine someone doing that....I am sure it happens.  I think the line from Men in Black goes "A person is smart.  People are dumb, ignorant and stupid."  



Well, knowing how homebirth transfers can be treated, I really doubt that anybody would put up with that for the sake of the baby, then ignore medical advice. In any case, this doesn't even come close to any thin lines or slippery slopes. These people got a second medical opinion. They certainly weren't being lax or careless, yk?
 

I'm just not sure where a thin line comes into any of this. The hospital would call if there was an immediate medical danger, and I don't think most of us would object to that. That wasn't the case here, and it's not what people are objecting to.


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#15 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 03:26 PM
 
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As a social worker-gone-SAHM, I see this issue through another set of lenses.

 

I realize that there are some nasty CPS workers out there, but as a whole they are overworked, under-paid, and under-appreciated.  Most that I've worked with genuinely care about child welfare and are in it with a love of children. 

 

That is why it is infuriating to me that while some CPS worker is already spread thin with cases of REAL child abuse......some nurse is using him/her as a mere pawn to intimidate and control parents.  irked.gif

 

Here's a newsflash.  When you decline an intervention, and a pediatrician OKs you declining an intervention, um, that's not child abuse.  Not by any stretch. 


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And that's why I said I am not saying this case is one of those.  However....people are stupid.  And I am sure nurses in a hospital deal with the stupidest of the stupidest at times.  Just because you can't imagine someone doing that....I am sure it happens.  I think the line from Men in Black goes "A person is smart.  People are dumb, ignorant and stupid."  


That may be true, but it doesn't take much adult discernment to separate the stupid from the informed. A nurse has seen enough patients to know better.

 


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#17 of 27 Old 03-31-2011, 04:51 PM
 
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As a social worker-gone-SAHM, I see this issue through another set of lenses.

 

I realize that there are some nasty CPS workers out there, but as a whole they are overworked, under-paid, and under-appreciated.  Most that I've worked with genuinely care about child welfare and are in it with a love of children. 

 

That is why it is infuriating to me that while some CPS worker is already spread thin with cases of REAL child abuse......some nurse is using him/her as a mere pawn to intimidate and control parents.  irked.gif

 

Here's a newsflash.  When you decline an intervention, and a pediatrician OKs you declining an intervention, um, that's not child abuse.  Not by any stretch. 


I'm not even a fan of CPS, and I completely agree with this. There are children being abused, neglected, starved, raped, and lots more really horrible things, and people make revenge calls to CPS for crap like this. It absolutely turns my stomach.

 

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And that's why I said I am not saying this case is one of those.  However....people are stupid.  And I am sure nurses in a hospital deal with the stupidest of the stupidest at times.  Just because you can't imagine someone doing that....I am sure it happens.  I think the line from Men in Black goes "A person is smart.  People are dumb, ignorant and stupid."  

I see where you are coming from, the problem I have with it is that some medical professionals think is you disagree with modern medicine, you are stupid, because in their opinion their way is the only way. 
 

 

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#19 of 27 Old 04-01-2011, 10:54 AM
 
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Oh wow, don't get me started on my views on CPS...... >.< There's another GREAT thread here on Mothering on what to do about them, but yeah one reason I am not happy about having to birth in a hospital. Some also hold you hostage if you dont have a carseat that is less than 7 years old.

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#20 of 27 Old 04-01-2011, 11:08 AM
 
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That may be true, but it doesn't take much adult discernment to separate the stupid from the informed. A nurse has seen enough patients to know better.

 



I don't neccicarily agree with that.

I've delivered 6 kids (7 in 6 more weeks) in a hospital, and Ive delivered in 5 different hospitals, 4 different states. I've seen a WHOLE lot of nurses in that period of time, and a lot of them were brainwashed servants for doctors who were nitwits.

I've seen them come in for some of my doula patients after the gals were in labor for 2 hours telling the moms the doctors wanted them to start Pitocin to 'hurry' things along. TWO HOURS of labor... that is NOTHING.

When we decline saying we were happy with the progress, the nurses would CONTINUE to start the scare tactics the doctors train them to say, chirping about 'the risk of infection'. Little did these nurses know, that is ONLY pertaining to ruptured membranes after HOURS of labor and even then is questionable to an extent. Some of these moms had totally intact membranes!!! They had little to NO knowledge of how these meds really effect babies or women, and only that since the doctor ordered it- it was acceptable.

 

I've had nurses flat out tell me that the Percocet I was taking for afterpains after birth had NOTHING to do with how sleepy my baby was (um- duh?) and I've had them flat out argue with me about my daughter's broken finger and taking an NSAID (ibuprofin, Naproxen, etc) and I've been forced to explain how NSAIDs block progesterone which is the initial part of the healing process of bone trauma. I hate having to school nurses myself. I've had some pretty fantastic ones though, too.

 

BLATENTLY putting your care in the hands of medical professionals without advocating or getting involved in any of it is ignorance, to me. I have met nurses who I SWEAR knew more than the doctors above them. They save lives everyday.

 

So it's really a given- people are fallable, period. Just because a waitress serves coffee in a diner for 40 years doesnt mean her coffee is the best or that she knows everything about it. :)

 


 
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#21 of 27 Old 04-03-2011, 09:42 AM
 
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Oh wow, don't get me started on my views on CPS...... >.< There's another GREAT thread here on Mothering on what to do about them, but yeah one reason I am not happy about having to birth in a hospital. Some also hold you hostage if you dont have a carseat that is less than 7 years old.


if you have a car seat older than 7 years old, it is most likely expired and should not be used
. I am 95% certain that the car seats sold 7 years ago came with 6 or 7 year expiration dates, though there are now some convertibles that last longer.

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#22 of 27 Old 04-04-2011, 05:11 AM
 
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Oh wow, don't get me started on my views on CPS...... >.< There's another GREAT thread here on Mothering on what to do about them, but yeah one reason I am not happy about having to birth in a hospital. Some also hold you hostage if you dont have a carseat that is less than 7 years old.

 

I'm sure this post was made tongue-in-cheek but, to any new moms reading who don't realize that Jynuine is joking, I'd like to make it clear that, if on the off chance someone actually tried to take home an infant from the hospital in a 7 year old carseat, the staff would be well within bounds to not let that happen! 

 

 

Car seats have expiration dates because most are made of plastic and plastic becomes brittle and can develop cracks over time. Car seats are subjected to extreme heat and extreme cold while sitting in your vehicle, so the plastics eventually react just like that toy left in the sun. You may not be able to see that the plastic is breaking down, or is more brittle, but that change could be dangerous in a crash when the car seat shell is stressed.  Even if it *looks* brand new, it isn't and should not be used.

 

Remember that medical staff and CPS are not always "The Man" trying to take all the fun out of parenting.

 

 

Okay, back to our regularly scheduled thread! :)

 


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#23 of 27 Old 04-06-2011, 05:23 PM
 
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Here's a TV version of the story:

http://www.ktnv.com/category/164911/ktnv-video?clipId=5701146&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

 

In both this segment and the article in the OP, the hospital will not communicate with media other than to say that they don't believe the patient's rights were violated.  Really dumb move. 

 

If they knew a thing about good PR, this would have been the response: "We uphold a high standard of care and take patient concerns seriously.  We are conducting a thorough investigation of the matter to make sure that no patient rights were violated."

 

It's as BS'y and non-committal as any other PR butt-covering response, but it's a lot better than the "NOT-OUR-FAULT" approach that they are taking, which is sure to cause their public credibility to diminish.
 


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#24 of 27 Old 04-06-2011, 06:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lamashtu View Post

 

I'm sure this post was made tongue-in-cheek but, to any new moms reading who don't realize that Jynuine is joking, I'd like to make it clear that, if on the off chance someone actually tried to take home an infant from the hospital in a 7 year old carseat, the staff would be well within bounds to not let that happen! 

 


When I had ds1, the hospital wasn't going to "let" us leave without a carseat. I believe that's still policy. However, we lived across the street, and if i hadn't had a c-section, I'd have been walking home. I asked them what they do about it if you're not driving, and they told me that my mode of transport wasn't their problem - I wasn't leaving without a carseat. (Just to make that doubly frustrating, our car broke down that same day, when my ex was on his way back to a job site, and we had no vehicle until ds1 was six months old. I'm not sure why we really needed a carseat.) I find the whole thing stupid.

 


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#25 of 27 Old 04-07-2011, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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#26 of 27 Old 04-08-2011, 03:15 AM
 
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When I had ds1, the hospital wasn't going to "let" us leave without a carseat. I believe that's still policy. However, we lived across the street, and if i hadn't had a c-section, I'd have been walking home. I asked them what they do about it if you're not driving, and they told me that my mode of transport wasn't their problem - I wasn't leaving without a carseat. (Just to make that doubly frustrating, our car broke down that same day, when my ex was on his way back to a job site, and we had no vehicle until ds1 was six months old. I'm not sure why we really needed a carseat.) I find the whole thing stupid.

 


 

That is ridiculous!  What are you supposed to do; strap the carseat to your back???
 

 


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#27 of 27 Old 04-08-2011, 01:53 PM
 
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That is ridiculous!  What are you supposed to do; strap the carseat to your back???

 

I guess we'd have carried ds1 out of the ward in the seat (it was a bucket), then my ex would have carried the seat home, and I'd have carried ds1. But, it was really bizarre.


 

 


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