Dispelling the "perfect birth theory" - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

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#151 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 07:30 AM
 
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How about we try a few other scenarios, starting from here:
 

 

AND THEN got pre-eclampsia, placental abruption, emergency surgery; 

 

OR got placenta previa, C-section

 

OR 50 hour birth, fetal distress, C-section

 

OR... any other scenario. Use your knowledge from books here.

 

 

 

Gosh, like nobody else does homework or reads anything. It's not rocket surgery, you know.

 

 

 

No, not really. Sorry you just don't. The privilege of only nice experiences shows through.

 

I think your post is a perfect illustration for what is discussed in this thread.

 

It's not all about studying, talking to midwives, and reading 14 books.

Hi Double Double, 

 

I know - these things can and do happen - even with the best of preparations.  I thought I had acknowledged that in my post - but it didn't come through clearly enough.  I apologize for that.  I was truly trying to share my own honest thoughts, emotions, and experiences.  And I'm open to being teased about how overboard I went reading up when I first got pregnant (it was a bit intense) - but not made fun of seriously - please back off.  I don't think the sarcasm is really that helpful.

 

I also know that lots of others do their homework and read things too.  But you know what?  A good number of women (meaning a LOT) that I know in real life did not really do as much preparation as I did.  They trusted their doctors or mainstream opinion too much (for good reason - our doctors should be trustworthy and are often trustworthy - but they are also human) and then had a few regrets in hindsight.  We've all been in situations like this, where we wished we had known better to look into things more deeply ourselves before leaping in, and then we learn great lessons from this - I know I have had this experience in lots of other areas of my life so I can relate - however thus far I haven't had it in my birth experiences, but I may (I'm not done having kids yet) one day.  I've had lots of opportunities to be humbled in this life, luckily - because being full of pride generally makes one a complete pain in the a$$ :), and I truly don't chalk up my birth experiences to my own hard work alone.  

 

I was just trying to say that I don't want it all discounted as luck either.  Or just privilege. And yes, I feel privileged and blessed and I recognize and am grateful for that.    

 

Please understand that what I am NOT saying is that every woman who had an unplanned c-section or some kind of intervention that they weren't planning on just wasn't prepared enough and should have done exactly what I did - that's so so so so so not what I am saying, and I think that's a terribly unhelpful and wrongheaded way to think.  I've never brought that mindset to any conversation I've ever had about birth, ever.  Birth is far too complicated for such a radical over-simplification.   

 

OK - I'm signing off on this thread - truly, I wanted to share on a thread that seemed as though we were having an intelligent, courteous conversation and I thought I could add a perspective.  I will say that in my real life, no one has ever talked to me in such sarcastic tones about my birth experience.  

 

~Lizbiz

 

 

 

 

 

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#152 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 07:43 AM
 
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I was not talking about your birth experience. I was sarcastic about the assumptions that a lot of prep work translates into perfection if done right. You just seem to be among many others who hold that view as well, and you articulated it here, loud and proud.

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#153 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 09:29 AM
 
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I was not talking about your birth experience. I was sarcastic about the assumptions that a lot of prep work translates into perfection if done right. You just seem to be among many others who hold that view as well, and you articulated it here, loud and proud.


I think we are just going around in circles here. I didn't see Lizbiz say that her preparations ensured 100% her outcome, I think she admitted there were no gaurantees, but felt that her preparation helped her birth. Is the message we want to send, nothing you do matters? don't even bother trying? I thought we had moved past the rhetoric of perfect preparation = perfect birth in this discussion. 

 

I have never told anyone this, other than my husband and gyno, but I think it is relevant here. I had a uc. I prepared a lot. I had a cervical lip, and had to push it over my baby's head. I was only able to do this because I read enough to recognize the problem and had the resources to tell me what to do. I am not proud of this. I regret ucing on some levels because of this - it was difficult and sucked, and I know if I had a mw, it would have been a lot easier on me, (long story why I didn't). Had I not done that, I don't think the lip would have resolved on its own, and I doubt I could have gone another hour or so. I would have transferred for a c/s, that is the only realistic option the hospital would have offered me where I live.

Maybe if I had done MORE preparation, or knew MORE about fetal positioning, I could have resolved or prevented the problem some other way. But I didn't. 

 

In preparing for a uc, I knew there were certain things I could NEVER handle and I knew there are, sometimes, no way to prevent these things. Placenta previa, pre-eclampsia, cord prolapse, etc. etc. I knew in the face of those issues, I would be in for a different birth, I didn't believe myself immune to complications either.

 

So my preparation did get me the outcome I wanted? - yes, to some extent. Could my preparation get me the outcome I wanted in all possible circumstances - NO.

 

We are all at risk, everyday, for all sorts of bad crap to happen to us. Are we lucky or privileged any given day we don't get into a car accident or get assaulted? Can you do things to try to minimize your chances of car accident or your house broken into? I think we need to move past this and get more onto what CI Mama was saying about how to handle disappointments/trauma after... because there is no way to ever fully prevent. 

 

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#154 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 01:58 PM
 
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I think we are just going around in circles here. I didn't see Lizbiz say that her preparations ensured 100% her outcome, I think she admitted there were no gaurantees, but felt that her preparation helped her birth. Is the message we want to send, nothing you do matters? don't even bother trying? I thought we had moved past the rhetoric of perfect preparation = perfect birth in this discussion.



For real! Because when you talk to someone the way you just did, DoubleDouble, that's exactly what you are doing. You are saying that, since sometimes things don't work out, it's all pointless. We might as well just show up for every OB appointment, with any old OB our finger lands on in the phone book, and do everything he or she says, without bothering to read a thing in advance, because hey, it's all just a matter of luck anyway. That's ridiculous. It has been repeatedly stated by LizBiz and others that they understand that luck played a big part in it, but to say that it played the ONLY part is just as bad and hyperbolic as it is when people say that luck didn't play ANY part at all.

 

Sure, sometimes a woman gets no prenatal care from a professional or herself, doesn't take care of herself, shows up at the hospital in transition and pushes a healthy baby out within 30 minutes with no interventions, and yeah, that's luck. That happens to very few of us. If a woman does everything she can to have a safe birth, and goes into it knowing that she still might need interventions she didn't necessarily want in order to achieve that, then whatever she did is helpful, EVEN IF SHE ENDS UP WITH [INSERT UNWANTED INTERVENTION OR BAD OUTCOME HERE], because she will have the knowledge that she did what she could, and that at least things went as well as could be expected under the circumstances. We can't prevent all complications. I have GD this time and it's not my fault. I couldn't have prevented it, no matter what I did or what anyone else says about how I could. However, knowing how to take care of myself, understanding what truly normal glucose levels are for pregnant women so that I can achieve them, those things matter. The OBs I see give target levels that are 20 points higher than what's actually normal. If I followed their advice, I wouldn't be achieving normal blood sugar levels. I might still have a healthy baby, but then that would be luck. Reading, doing what I can to make sure I really know what's best, that is NOT luck, whether everything works out perfectly or we wind up with interventions. I can do things to prevent complications like macrosomia, which might necessitate a c-section, or hypoglycemia in the baby. I can't prevent the GD, but I can do things to reduce its impact. I can only do that, though, if I know what I need to do.

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#155 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 04:08 PM
 
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I have GD this time and it's not my fault. I couldn't have prevented it, no matter what I did or what anyone else says about how I could. However, knowing how to take care of myself, understanding what truly normal glucose levels are for pregnant women so that I can achieve them, those things matter. The OBs I see give target levels that are 20 points higher than what's actually normal. If I followed their advice, I wouldn't be achieving normal blood sugar levels. I might still have a healthy baby, but then that would be luck. Reading, doing what I can to make sure I really know what's best, that is NOT luck, whether everything works out perfectly or we wind up with interventions. I can do things to prevent complications like macrosomia, which might necessitate a c-section, or hypoglycemia in the baby. I can't prevent the GD, but I can do things to reduce its impact. I can only do that, though, if I know what I need to do.

 

But that's just normal behavior (in my book). A smart thing to do. I don't see anything too special about that. Everyone should prepare the best they can, and react to new developments in an educated way. What's so special about that? That's like... I don't know... learning about traffic rules before starting to drive. Normal and logical thing to do, but not worthy of an extra achievement award.

 

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Is the message we want to send, nothing you do matters? don't even bother trying?

 

Where did I said that? I'm not talking about being prepared, I'm talking about what happens afterwards.

 

 

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For real! Because when you talk to someone the way you just did, DoubleDouble, that's exactly what you are doing. You are saying that, since sometimes things don't work out, it's all pointless.

 

Ok, officially: everyone should be prepared. Read books, search forums, go to PubMed, explore other sources of info, learn self-hypnosis, meditate, whatever. It's all good. Books, research, midwives, et cetera, ad nauseum.

 

And for some people, all that would still be pointless. And then, the things-went-well crowd should not treat them as lepers.

 

 

What is the message I want to send? It's simple. And it's not about being prepared, it's about handling the aftermath, graciously. After all is said and done, after the birth happens, the perfect birth crowd shouldn't act like those women who didn't have the perfect birth are failures. They shouldn't judge and make smug remarks. I know it might be too much to ask, looking at some threads here on MDC and on other sites. But one can dream, right?

 

See this post (and the beginning of this thread, for a refresher) - for examples of how other women feel judged, here on MDC and in real life.

 

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#156 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 04:13 PM
 
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I've been following along this thread from the beginning & finding the conversation quite interesting. It's really had me thinking about my own births. With both I did a lot of reading, a lot of research, really did the best I could to find a doctor I liked/trusted but the outcomes were still not "perfect".

 

With ds I was induced with cervical gel & ended up with a 3rd degree tear due to a forceps delivery. Recovery was awful, awful. But I felt fine with his birth.

 

With dd I did even more reading & prep & had my Mom do more reading too. I had 3 weeks of prodromal labour, was induced with cervical strip which didn't really help, doctor broke my water, one dose of narcotics, iv antibiotics for gbs+, a little bit of pitocin & freezing around my vagina 'cause the doctor was worried he might have to cut due to all the scarring from ds (he didn't & I had a 2nd degree tear). Recovery was awesome.

 

With dd's birth some things came up about ds' birth, specifically that the cervical gel induction was likely the reason I had such a bizarre labour (hard, hard contractions with no rhythm). But even then I was able to deal with the negative feelings that arose fairly quickly 'cause I felt like we had made good decisions at the time.

 

But despite what many would call "bad" births full of interventions I felt & still feel really good about them. Yes, I prepared for a "perfect" birth. I went in ready to fight for my rights. I really, really wanted a natural birth but it didn't really happen.

 

The reason I don't feel traumatized by the disappointment of not realizing the births I dreamed of is that I felt in control. I asked lots & lots of questions (the poor nurse who was instructed to give me pit probably never had a labouring woman ask her more questions!), I spoke clearly & directly to my care providers & made sure we were on the same page. I don't feel disappointed 'cause I feel like I was respected & we worked to make the best decisions for the situations we were presented with.

 

It might not work for everyone but it is working for me.


Surviving sleep deprivation one day at a time with dd (Oct '11) & ds (Oct '08).

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#157 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 04:37 PM
 
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But that's just normal behavior (in my book). A smart thing to do. I don't see anything too special about that. Everyone should prepare the best they can, and react to new developments in an educated way. What's so special about that? That's like... I don't know... learning about traffic rules before starting to drive. Normal and logical thing to do, but not worthy of an extra achievement award.

 

 

Where did I said that? I'm not talking about being prepared, I'm talking about what happens afterwards.

 

 

 

Ok, officially: everyone should be prepared. Read books, search forums, go to PubMed, explore other sources of info, learn self-hypnosis, meditate, whatever. It's all good. Books, research, midwives, et cetera, ad nauseum.

 

And for some people, all that would still be pointless. And then, the things-went-well crowd should not treat them as lepers.

 

 

What is the message I want to send? It's simple. And it's not about being prepared, it's about handling the aftermath, graciously. After all is said and done, after the birth happens, the perfect birth crowd shouldn't act like those women who didn't have the perfect birth are failures. They shouldn't judge and make smug remarks. I know it might be too much to ask, looking at some threads here on MDC and on other sites. But one can dream, right?

 

See this post (and the beginning of this thread, for a refresher) - for examples of how other women feel judged, here on MDC and in real life.

 

But you're doing exactly what  you don't want the rest of us to do.  I thought we were making a lot of progress in this thread.  I thought many of us were getting more complete understanding of this whole topic.  You've barely been a member for long as far as I can tell so I have no idea if you have seen the shit storm that has been waded through even in the short time I've been here.  To have this kind of dialogue here is monumental and I am finding it very educational.

 

I feel venom in your responses.  You are poking at threads just to be contrary.  We all can see it.  I never feel like you're posts leave room to let a little of the other side sink in.  It's your loss and I would hate to see the judging and cat-fighting begin again.  I'm not going to be a part of that.
 

 


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#158 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 05:10 PM
 
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After all is said and done, after the birth happens, the perfect birth crowd shouldn't act like those women who didn't have the perfect birth are failures. They shouldn't judge and make smug remarks.

 

Lizbiz wasn't speaking about anyone else's birth but her own. You made the jump that her stating that she feels preparation helped her birth outcomes = she is judging and being smug to other "failures", even though she said the opposite. Let's remember the OP of this thread was judging women for feeling like failures or being upset, too. 

 

I thought we were getting somewhere. People complain about this so much on mdc that maybe we should let the thread move forward to get somewhere, to some more understanding, more perspective. Going backward and just complaining about the "perfect birthers" judging the "birth failures" isn't productive, and I honestly thought we were beyond that in this thread.

 


 

 

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But that's just normal behavior (in my book). A smart thing to do. I don't see anything too special about that. Everyone should prepare the best they can, and react to new developments in an educated way. What's so special about that? That's like... I don't know... learning about traffic rules before starting to drive. Normal and logical thing to do, but not worthy of an extra achievement award.

 

Where did I ask for an achievement award? Oh, that's right: NOWHERE. You are, quite frankly, just trying to be antagonistic and rude. The point wasn't that someone deserved a special award for educating herself. The point was that education CAN affect outcomes. I'm sorry that you are so upset by whatever has upset you, but understand that the fact that you are unable to see past your hurt feelings and understand what people are actually saying vs. what you are accusing them of saying isn't going to make you feel any better. And in the end, you are engaging in the same tactics you claim to be so upset about: discounting other people's feelings and using hyperbole to support your position.

 

Furthermore, if you believe that it's "normal" for a woman to hold herself to a higher standard of blood glucose levels than what the OB suggests...I'm just going to laugh. I recently discussed GDM on facebook with several of my friends who also had it - 4 of them. Guess how many of them had bothered to find out what normal blood glucose levels were during pregnancy. None. Zero. Because people DO rely on their doctors to tell them what they need to know. And my friends aren't idiots. They're just normal, mainstream women with college degrees who believe that OBs are always armed with the latest information. What you believe is "normal" behavior isn't the same thing as what actual "normal" behavior is. I assume you're living in some kind of crunchy bubble somewhere, where women rely on themselves more than their OBs, when it comes time to gather information. The rest of the world isn't like that. Doesn't mean I need an award, want an award or feel deserving of an award. It does mean that, yes, I do feel I'll probably have an easier labor with a lower risk of shoulder dystocia than my tiny friend, who delivered 3 ten pound babies, after staying in her OBs recommended blood sugar levels throughout each of her pregnancies. Award worthy? Absolutely not. Less likely to result in complications? Absolutely. Is it a guarantee? Absolutely not. Hear what I am SAYING, not what it is easy for you to argue with. Straw men are lame. And before you set up another one, let me be very clear: I admit that it's quite possible my friend would've had 10 pound babies even staying within the true normal blood glucose range, rather than the ones her OB told her to shoot for. But with recent research showing that at every increase of bg levels, even in the normal ranges, babies get fatter, I'd say the odds are slim. Also, despite what I'm sure will be your insistence that I must be judging women's birth experiences by daring to even talk about this, she had normal, intervention-free, drug-free births every time, and her babies were healthy. Nothing there to judge. However, I don't personally want to have a 10 pound baby. Nothing wrong with them, of course, but I had enough trouble getting my 8 pounder out. I'm not built for 10 pounders, and I'm trying not to have one.

 

 

Quote:
What is the message I want to send? It's simple. And it's not about being prepared, it's about handling the aftermath, graciously. After all is said and done, after the birth happens, the perfect birth crowd shouldn't act like those women who didn't have the perfect birth are failures. They shouldn't judge and make smug remarks. I know it might be too much to ask, looking at some threads here on MDC and on other sites. But one can dream, right?

 

And YOU shouldn't act like EVERYONE who dares to suggest that education played a part in their outcome is doing that, but "one can dream, right?"

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#160 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 06:51 PM
 
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I'm sorry that you are so upset by whatever has upset you, but understand that the fact that you are unable to see past your hurt feelings and understand what people are actually saying vs. what you are accusing them of saying isn't going to make you feel any better.

 

That's true. I think I am very, very bitter. It took me years of hearing judgements and "helpful suggestions" to get to such levels. I'll have to work for a long while to reset and see things differently.

 

I am sorry everyone. 

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#161 of 178 Old 03-25-2012, 07:20 PM
 
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That's true. I think I am very, very bitter. It took me years of hearing judgements and "helpful suggestions" to get to such levels. I'll have to work for a long while to reset and see things differently.

 

I am sorry everyone. 


I'm sorry people were judgemental and crappy to you. I can see why and how it could make someone extremely bitter. You don't seem to be the only one, it seems to be pretty much a dominate theme around here, unfortunately. I think this thread was/is turning out very interesting, this is not an easy topic to discuss. 

 

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That's true. I think I am very, very bitter. It took me years of hearing judgements and "helpful suggestions" to get to such levels. I'll have to work for a long while to reset and see things differently.

 

I am sorry everyone. 


You have every right to your emotions.  I know this whole topic can be so heated and we all just want to feel like we're being heard. hug2.gif I am ashamed about how I used to think a few years back.  I was too much on the "Rah, rah!  Go homebirth!" side of things and I feel like I get the other side now.  Again, just to have this on MDC is beautiful.

 

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http://www.infoocean.info/avatar3.jpgI'm happy to hear that you had a great c-section birth and that you and you DC are doing well.

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#164 of 178 Old 03-28-2012, 02:34 AM
 
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You have every right to your emotions.  I know this whole topic can be so heated and we all just want to feel like we're being heard. hug2.gif I am ashamed about how I used to think a few years back.  I was too much on the "Rah, rah!  Go homebirth!" side of things and I feel like I get the other side now.  Again, just to have this on MDC is beautiful.

 


I agree with all of the above. And the bolded...yeah. lol I had my first in the hospital and it was a beautiful birth with a great midwife, so I'm not anti-hospital birth at all, and never have been. However, I was very judgmental about women who chose not to breastfeed and about other stupid things. I'm still working on it all. No one is perfect, I suppose.

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#165 of 178 Old 03-28-2012, 10:47 AM
 
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I started up a podcast recently and my first episode touched on a lot of what we've discussed here. Check it out if you want. It's a long interview with a mama who went for a natural birth and ended up with a cesarean. She struggled to come to terms with it for a while, constantly wondering what she had "done wrong."

 

At her birth class reunion, she tells  of her c-section and her instructor's first response was "Who was your doula, again?".. as though if she had only gone with another doula (ie made a "smarter" decision), her outcome would've been different...

 

http://broadlives.libsyn.com

 

 


"The Mothers are the brave ones." - Call the Midwife

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#166 of 178 Old 03-28-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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Off to listen!!!!


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I never thought it would happen to me. I swallowed the Kool Aid. I was sure that with year of yoga and meditation experience as well as my acupressure therapist doula by my side I would make it without any meds. My labor was a the biggest lesson in humility and understand that control is illusion. That one can plan and prepare but life has other plans.



Yes!  Humility.  You simply can not, ultimately, control the situation. 

 

With my first, my water broke and didn't really feel contractions or get uncomfortable for 6 hours.  Because of that, they wanted to start pitocin because they didn't think I had progressed.  I had them check and I was at 4--no pitocin needed.  Got in the tub, things progressed pretty fast.  Had excruciating back labor.  Started pushing at noon and the nurse thought I would have baby by 1ish.  Had a great OB that was very supportive of natural birth.  Ended up pushing for over three hours at which point pitocin was started because he just wasn't moving down (he was posterior). Suddenly, my natural labor turned into a 17 hour labor with almost every intervention known to man---epidural, pitocin, internal monitors (because baby's heart rate went way up), oxygen, prepping me for an emergency c section.  I was exhausted and had no control.  In the end, I was prepped and ready for the c section, wheeled into a surgical room with bright lights, nurses, anesthesiologist, multiple OB's, residents, special care nursery staff, etc.  Not at all what I wanted or pictured.  The epidural didn't work.  My beautiful son was delivered via forceps.  He wasn't breathing and had an APGAR score of 1 at 1 minute.  I didn't get to hold him right away, because they had to work on him.  My husband held him first.  His 5 minute score was a 7 and thankfully, he was fine. 

 

Sure, I could have declined the pitocin, but honestly, at some point I would have consented to pain meds or something--I couldn't have pushed forever.  I felt like I had been hit by a truck for a week.  I had a 3rd degree tear that was horrid.  I had all of these expectations for myself and felt like I failed.  Failed at birth.  I cried in our pediatricians office when he told me we needed to supplement.  I failed at birth,  I couldn't possibly fail at breastfeeding, too.  Yet, I did.  Failed at birth.  Failed at breastfeeding.  Failed for having a colicky baby.  Failed for having PPD.  

 

It was horrible and I was a mess.  Why?  Partly because I had placed so much pressure and so many expectations on myself for having the perfect birth.  Other people did it all the time!  People that didn't even *want* a natural birth ended up with one because they just progressed so fast!  What was wrong with me?!  I was depressed and missed out on so much with my son.  I was exhausted all the time.  And angry.  So angry.   

 

I just recently had my second.  I didn't have problems with breastfeeding or PPD.  Was it because I had an ideal birth?  Or was it simply because I was much more open this time?  I was much more aware about keeping an open mind this time around.  That said, I ended up having gestational diabetes and while at my 40 week visit, the NP informed me that because of gestational diabetes, they would be scheduling an induction.  I was mad--this so wasn't supposed to happen!  I followed the damn diet.  I exercised.  I hardly had any blood sugar reading out of range.  I did everything I could to have baby come on his own, but it didn't work.  I knew I was healthy and baby was healthy and that he was not a large baby.  So, yes, I could have refused an induction.  I didn't, though.  I decided to go with it and hope that this experience would be better. 

 

Showed up, got my cervadil, got my pitocin the next morning (the devil!!!), and got meds after feeling like I was near death while in the tub.  That's right, I got pitocin and meds!  Oh, AND ended up with an episiotomy.  And a male OB!   Who was I?!  As soon as the nurse told me I was at a 9 and she paged the OB, I started remembering my first birth experience, as I'm sure my husband was as well.  I started to cry and the wonderful, wonderful nurse and my amazing OB picked up on it--they assured me baby wasn't posterior.  That the baby was right there.  My OB told me  during pregnancy a million times that each birth is different, I was reminded again. 

 

After a very painful, but quick (6 hours) labor, my beautiful son was born.  And I cried.  Cried big, huge, fat tears of joy and relief.  Any notion of guilt and failure from this labor, or my first birth, was gone.  He was placed directly on my chest and suddenly, everything was perfect.  Perfect.

 

It didn't matter that I had an induction or pain meds.  Or that it wasn't what I pictured as being ideal.  Or that I had a (male!) OB instead of a midwife. I still had my supportive, loving husband, I had an incredible nurse who didn't leave my side and I had a gentle, caring male OB that sang happily as I delivered.  It may not have been what I *thought* was ideal, but it was happy, peaceful and perfect, for me

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#168 of 178 Old 04-06-2012, 07:52 PM
 
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jenerationx - so many parallels in our birth stories. Thank you for sharing. Fwiw - I had male ob's for both births & they were both the most gentle, caring, skilled, respectful men - no regrets at all on that front.


Surviving sleep deprivation one day at a time with dd (Oct '11) & ds (Oct '08).

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#169 of 178 Old 04-19-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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to jenerationx -

 

Just, thank you. You just helped me out a whole, huge bunch. Can't go into details at the moment, but thanks again!

 

 

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#170 of 178 Old 05-02-2012, 11:51 AM
 
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So glad I could somehow help, skyblufig.  smile.gif
 

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#171 of 178 Old 10-22-2012, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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OP here it's been a while since I've read my thread.  I'm happy so many women including myself found peace

and joy regardless of their delivery.  Here I am 6 weeks pregnant and a very long ways away from giving birth.

But this time around it's my baby's choice I'm happy to comply with whichever way he/she wants to enter

this world. 

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#172 of 178 Old 10-23-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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As someone who is recovering from a tubal pregnancy, I believe any birth where the baby & mother come out healthy is "perfect."

 

But I've had a baby before.  Recovering from natural birth is way easier than recovering from getting cut.  However, getting a c-section doesn't make you less of a woman.

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#173 of 178 Old 10-30-2012, 01:27 PM
 
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I love this thread!

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#174 of 178 Old 11-01-2012, 12:58 PM
 
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I haven't read the whole thread, but I read the first two and last pages and I'm happy to see some sense and compassion...

 

I had a relatively crappy birth with my first.  Home birth transfer - no progression after 20 hrs of labour.  Epi, pit drip, excruciatingly difficult vaginal birth of a nearly 9-lb baby who inexplicably had her arm over her head.  Tore like crazy, hemorrhaged badly, lost well over a litre of blood and had problems breastfeeding with low iron, low blood levels, a sleepy baby and very low milk supply.

 

I was moderately okay with the birth (I mean, I avoided a c-section! That's the holy grail right? Pfft.) until I had to supplement my baby with (gasp) formula.  After having been raised by Weston Price devotees (pre-sally-fallon-WAPF dental professionals no less) and hearing tales of how crappy kids' teeth are if they're given formula and how breastfeeding is just super-easy and real women don't bottlefeed.  Well that kicked me into PPD and the next 10 months or so were pretty hellish.

 

Now my "problem" baby is a gorgeous nearly-7-year-old.  She is bright, kind, funny, good company and has perfect teeth ;-) - everything I could have ever hoped for in a child.

 

And I am 7 years older and a whole lot wiser, and I understand a lot more about bodies and how they work and the universe in general.  I now understand that part of why my baby didn't just fall out of me in surges the way my hypnobirthing training suggested was that she was nearly 9 freaking lbs and I am barely 5'0" with all my "height" in my legs, and my hips are not generous.  And that I had the misfortune to be born into Western society and have sat on chairs regularly since I was able to sit and my body is not the body of a "naturally raised" human.  And that I worked a desk job for 8 years prior to her birth, sitting all the while and wearing heeled shoes.  And that I married a guy who was vastly genetically different from me, has a ginormous head and weighed nearly 10 lbs at his own birth, and was "oddly" enough posterior and difficult coming out himself.

 

I can't go back in time and change these things.  Nor, probably, would I. 

 

I'm now pregnant with my second child.  My midwife gave me a questionnaire about my birthing preferences and I summed it up in one sentence: "I want a birth with a minimal amount of drama."  She laughed, and asked exactly what that meant, and I said it meant that I had no expectations about being able to perform any feats of spectacular womanhood for the sake of my own pride.  I want the baby out in the manner that seems safest and least traumatic when the time comes.  I'll start with no drugs, but if I am progressing slowly, I will not put my baby through another grueling 24-hour ordeal, I'll take the pit and the epi and get it done. If that doesn't work, I'll take a c-section and I won't moan about it.  I hate surgery and I really don't want a six week recovery but if that's what happens, it's what happens.  And yes, I know that there are medical problems for which c-sections can play a role, most likely due to improper bacterial colonization when baby misses that fun-fun squish out the vag - but I will talk to my midwife if there's a way around that involving swabs or something if it comes to that.

 

I'm actually, at this point, kind of done with birth as a thing to get very excited about.  It's like weddings.  Should not be a huge big deal.  Get it over with, have some fun if you can, but for heaven's sake don't mortgage your house (or your soul, for a birth) in order to get a "perfect" day.  It's just one day. What comes after - the years of dependence and cuddling and love and growing and learning and the highs and lows and joy and sorrow - that's so much more important. 

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#175 of 178 Old 11-04-2012, 04:55 PM
 
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Quote:Originally Posted by spughy 

 
I'm now pregnant with my second child.  My midwife gave me a questionnaire about my birthing preferences and I summed it up in one sentence: "I want a birth with a minimal amount of drama."  She laughed, and asked exactly what that meant, and I said it meant that I had no expectations about being able to perform any feats of spectacular womanhood for the sake of my own pride.   


 
First of all, let me say that I am amazed and thankful to see this thread here of all places!  I am so tired of women competing thru birth, tearing each other down.  We should be upholding one another.
 
What spughy quoted her midwife as saying about pride....sometimes I think, unfortunately, that it comes down to pride with some women.  Birth is actually unpredictable sometimes.  I mean, what mother is going to refuse that homebirth/birth center transfer if her midwife says she needs it?  What mama is going to be able to have all the info she needs at the exact moment her OB says c-section?  Some choices are harder to make in the midst of labor, and any choices or plans you make before labor can go out the window in a minute.  As natural and wonderful as childbirth is, some problems arise sometimes that are simply out of our control.
 

Blessed mama to four, and expecting a boy in March 2013!!!!  chicken3.gif
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Last edited by 31rubies; 06-29-2014 at 05:48 AM. Reason: spelling
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#176 of 178 Old 11-05-2012, 12:30 PM
 
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Wow, I in no way have time to read through all the posts.  But I did see a place while skimming through where someone was saying women who have natural births are lucky.  I have had so many people say we are lucky, and it's really offending.  One of my births most certainly would have been a C-Section had I been in the hospital, and I had preeclampsia with my first birth.  We've also had hemmoraghing at birth, pregnancy anemia, early placenta seperation, 3 weeks overdue, sunny side up, and one birthed with arm above head. Is that being lucky?  All 7 of my children have been born at home (5 unassisted) with one being 10 pounds.  All have been between 8-10 pounds.  We've had our fair share of complications but have somehow managed to still avoid interventions and stay at home.  All of the complications were completely unavoidable but we still trusted my body to perform in the way it was made to.  We were ready to transfer if needed.  We've had people say we're trusting God too much, we're irresponsible, etc. etc. etc.  How can you trust God too much?  It really irritates me and I feel judged, maybe more so than a mother that had a c-section or interventions. 

 

We are currently pregnant with twins and planning another homebirth.  If my midwife told me that I or one of the babies most certainly would die without a C-section, then I'm all for it.  I will transfer, I will get that C-Section without guilt.  I think God has blessed us with skilled surgeons just for these emergency situations, but I also feel that C-Sections are so overused and it is robbing many women who wouldn't necessarily need one.  Mostly that it's easier for the doctor and there is less liability for them if a complication arises.  I don't think any birth is a failure, how can birth be a failure?  I feel that the doctor failed the mother IF, and only IF they perform procedures that aren't necessary.  I am also completely overjoyed to have skilled educated doctors that save lives!    The whole birth bashing thing needs to stop, it just makes both sides feel yucky :)

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#177 of 178 Old 11-06-2012, 08:05 AM
 
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When I first thought about childbirth there were a lot of plans I had and made for my ideal.  But when it really came down to it what mattered the most was a full term healthy baby.  That, to me, was my perfect! 


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#178 of 178 Old 11-13-2012, 10:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cat13 View Post


I'm happy to hear that you had a great c-section birth and that you and you DC are doing well.

 

I do, however, disagree with the statement, "Whatever way your baby comes doesn't take away from the happiness and joy you experience for the rest of your life." While this may be true to you (and if it is, that's wonderful!), it is not the truth for so many women who have had c-sections. 

 


i completely agree with this. 


Unassisted birthing, atheist, poly, bi WOHM to 4 wonderful, smart homeschooling kids Wes (14) Seth (7) Pandora Moonlilly (2) and Nevermore Stargazer (11/2012)  Married to awesome SAH DH.

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