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#91 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This confuses me. I get that people have different levels of comfort with birth interventions, and I get the feeling that one needs a hospital, in case things go wrong. I get all that.

 

But, what complication can possibly happen, because a women doesn't have an epidural? I just don't get it.

 

So...my friend had her beautiful healthy baby a couple weeks ago...via C-Section and I've been meaning to update this thread because I'm hoping to get some insight here.  What is crazy about your comment is her OB forced her to labor for 12 hours on pitocin with NO epidural and eventually the C-Section.  My friends water broke (small leak and they said there was meconium, so she was immediately plugged into a pitocin drip).  Because she wasn't dilated at all and the babies station was relatively high they were concerned an epidural would slow down her contractions...so 12 hours later my friend hadn't even dilated to 1cm and into surgery she went.  She is pretty sad about the c-section and is having a hard time recovering and breastfeeding now but otherwise doing well and working through the BF issues.  

 

Here's where I am confused...I would think giving someone who was terrified of the "pain" of labor an epidural, that maybe she would have relaxed enough to dilate and have a shot at a vaginal birth.  There is after all a compassionate use of pain relief, isn't there.  I don't know, I'm not a Dr, Midwife, doula or anyone else that has been around many births, just my own experiences...but geesh.  Her experience sounded awful.  I've never had pitocin, but Ive heard it makes regular contractions seem like nothing and I can't imagine.   

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#92 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 01:38 PM
 
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But, what complication can possibly happen, because a women doesn't have an epidural? I just don't get it.

 

My epidural didn't prevent any complications, but it may have saved me some, if that makes sense.  My DS was posterior, and labor got extremely painful very quickly.  The epidural turned off the pain, and I napped while I was getting to fully dilated.  It took me about eight hours to go from 3 cm to 10 cm, but he was still posterior.  I had really good control of my pelvic muscles - I could feel and individually contract and relax them, I was pushing hard - but the kid wasn't coming out.  I got him down to an outlet position, and then the epidural meant that I could still have a relatively not torturous vacuum delivery.

 

My epidural wasn't perfect - it developed a window, so I felt a fair bit of pain anyway - but it meant I was able to participate coherently in conversations about my care all night, it allowed me to rest and conserve energy for the pushing phase, and it made instrumental delivery much easier on me then it otherwise would have been.  If I hadn't had the epidural, I think I absolutely would have needed a c-section.

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#93 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 02:20 PM
 
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So...my friend had her beautiful healthy baby a couple weeks ago...via C-Section and I've been meaning to update this thread because I'm hoping to get some insight here.  What is crazy about your comment is her OB forced her to labor for 12 hours on pitocin with NO epidural and eventually the C-Section.  My friends water broke (small leak and they said there was meconium, so she was immediately plugged into a pitocin drip).  Because she wasn't dilated at all and the babies station was relatively high they were concerned an epidural would slow down her contractions...so 12 hours later my friend hadn't even dilated to 1cm and into surgery she went.  She is pretty sad about the c-section and is having a hard time recovering and breastfeeding now but otherwise doing well and working through the BF issues.  

 

Here's where I am confused...I would think giving someone who was terrified of the "pain" of labor an epidural, that maybe she would have relaxed enough to dilate and have a shot at a vaginal birth.  There is after all a compassionate use of pain relief, isn't there.  I don't know, I'm not a Dr, Midwife, doula or anyone else that has been around many births, just my own experiences...but geesh.  Her experience sounded awful.  I've never had pitocin, but Ive heard it makes regular contractions seem like nothing and I can't imagine.   


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#94 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 09:58 PM
 
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My epidural didn't prevent any complications, but it may have saved me some, if that makes sense.  My DS was posterior, and labor got extremely painful very quickly.  The epidural turned off the pain, and I napped while I was getting to fully dilated.  It took me about eight hours to go from 3 cm to 10 cm, but he was still posterior.  I had really good control of my pelvic muscles - I could feel and individually contract and relax them, I was pushing hard - but the kid wasn't coming out.  I got him down to an outlet position, and then the epidural meant that I could still have a relatively not torturous vacuum delivery.

 

My epidural wasn't perfect - it developed a window, so I felt a fair bit of pain anyway - but it meant I was able to participate coherently in conversations about my care all night, it allowed me to rest and conserve energy for the pushing phase, and it made instrumental delivery much easier on me then it otherwise would have been.  If I hadn't had the epidural, I think I absolutely would have needed a c-section.

A friend of mine had hours and hours of back labor with her son and ended up with an epidural and Pitocin, but was able to have him vaginally. Same thing with her--having the epidural helped her conserve a little energy. I'm sure she would have ended up having a c-section otherwise. 

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#95 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 10:38 PM
 
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I also know moms who, despite previously thinking they never would, had epidurals during long/painful births and it helped them relax and they were able to deliver vaginally. Would most of them still delivered vaginally without the epidural? Of course. But it certainly made the process more doable for them.

 

I've had, and grappled with since, a difficult labor that had me question whether or not I or the baby would still be alive or damaged in some way if I didn't have a c-section. But I go back and forth on it. He was almost 12 lbs and was in a "sunny side up" position and his (16") head was stuck sideways pressing on my cervix. It was a hospital birth, and there was pitocin involved to try to get me contracting more and dialating more, so I'm not sure what would've happened if the birth had been completely natural. And I'll never know. I always hate to be the person who's like "but my birth was unique and I NEEDED a c-section" but I'm honestly about 50% convinced that I did.

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#96 of 120 Old 09-27-2012, 11:49 PM
 
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My epidural didn't prevent any complications, but it may have saved me some, if that makes sense.  My DS was posterior, and labor got extremely painful very quickly.  The epidural turned off the pain, and I napped while I was getting to fully dilated.  It took me about eight hours to go from 3 cm to 10 cm, but he was still posterior.  I had really good control of my pelvic muscles - I could feel and individually contract and relax them, I was pushing hard - but the kid wasn't coming out.  I got him down to an outlet position, and then the epidural meant that I could still have a relatively not torturous vacuum delivery.

 

My epidural wasn't perfect - it developed a window, so I felt a fair bit of pain anyway - but it meant I was able to participate coherently in conversations about my care all night, it allowed me to rest and conserve energy for the pushing phase, and it made instrumental delivery much easier on me then it otherwise would have been.  If I hadn't had the epidural, I think I absolutely would have needed a c-section.

 

Yeah -  I get that kind of thing. I just find the way the OB put it (if it didn't get garbled by the "Telephone" effect) really, really strange. It sounded as though the OB was saying that not having pain meds creates complications.

 

Mind you, I don't see any reason why someone can't change their mind and get an epidural if they really need to rest or something. It's not like you have to "get the epi in the parking lot" or refuse all pain medication, no matter what.


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#97 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 05:48 AM
 
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OB's often like their patients to have an epi because they are then prepped for a section. The issue may be that the doctor has seen things go wrong because of the need for an emergency section when the mother did not get medicated quickly enough?

 

This is basically what I've always heard - that having an epidural already in place is preferable (especially in a high risk pregnancy, where the chances of CS are already higher) since if a CS is called for, an epidural can just be "topped up" and the CS started. If there is no epidural already in place, and a crash CS needs done, the doctors have no choice but to put the mother to sleep under general anesthesia - which carries much higher risks than an epidural, not to mention the mother can't be awake for the birth of her baby. If there is no epidural and a non-emergency CS is called for, though, it shouldn't be an issue to have one placed before the surgery.

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#98 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 06:00 AM
 
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Because she wasn't dilated at all and the babies station was relatively high they were concerned an epidural would slow down her contractions[...]

 

Here's where I am confused...I would think giving someone who was terrified of the "pain" of labor an epidural, that maybe she would have relaxed enough to dilate and have a shot at a vaginal birth.  There is after all a compassionate use of pain relief, isn't there.

 

That is ridiculous! irked.gif Epidurals have not been found (by more recent, rigorous studies) to slow labor, in general. Even if it does manage to slow labor at all, it is usually only a difference of ~20 minutes; basically, it works out that some women will dilate quickly after receiving one, some women will continue to dilate (or not) at the same speed they were progressing (or not) at before, and some women will dilate more slowly after the epi than they were before.

To deny wanted pain relief under the outdated, mistaken assumption that the epi would slow down her labor in any significant way...I'm very sorry your friend had to endure that.
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#99 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 12:45 PM
 
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I have to disagree that epidurals dont slow labor down. That may be the case in studies that are comparing bed laboring women with and without an epidural, but most people who choose to birth naturally are up on their feet, moving around, and switching positions. Women were not meant to lay down on their backs and labor in a bed, and often times lack of movement does slow labor down dramatically. And, when you get an epidural, that's what is happening- you no longer get freedom of movement.


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#100 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 01:35 PM
 
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I have to disagree that epidurals dont slow labor down. That may be the case in studies that are comparing bed laboring women with and without an epidural, but most people who choose to birth naturally are up on their feet, moving around, and switching positions. Women were not meant to lay down on their backs and labor in a bed, and often times lack of movement does slow labor down dramatically. And, when you get an epidural, that's what is happening- you no longer get freedom of movement.

 

Not really sure if there are any data/studies to back up what you're saying about the effect of moving around upright on the speed of labor, but I did want to point out that not all epidurals keep you completely confined to bed.

 

In the particular instance of OP's friend, she may have already been "confined" to bed due to the pitocin drip (especially if they had her on the monitor), so even if you're right about being up and moving around, I don't think it would've applied in her case.

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#101 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 01:45 PM
 
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ive never met a woman who was able to walk around during an epidural. Have met plenty that couldnt feel their legs, though :)


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#102 of 120 Old 09-28-2012, 02:40 PM
 
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ive never met a woman who was able to walk around during an epidural. Have met plenty that couldnt feel their legs, though smile.gif

Yep, I ran a new mother's group for many years and we all talked about our births. The epi often gives terrible post partum headaches and backaches. Not okay for the new mom when she's dealing with so much!
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#103 of 120 Old 09-29-2012, 08:08 AM
 
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Yep, I ran a new mother's group for many years and we all talked about our births. The epi often gives terrible post partum headaches and backaches. Not okay for the new mom when she's dealing with so much!

 

The incidence of post dural puncture headaches is ~1%, which I wouldn't describe as "often", but yes it is a side effect to be aware of, especially since they can be quite severe and debilitating until they resolve. For many women, the quite small chance that they will get a PDPH afterwards is very much worth the almost guaranteed pain relief given during labor. For others, it is not. And that's ok thumb.gif

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The incidence of post dural puncture headaches is ~1%, which I wouldn't describe as "often", but yes it is a side effect to be aware of, especially since they can be quite severe and debilitating until they resolve. For many women, the quite small chance that they will get a PDPH afterwards is very much worth the almost guaranteed pain relief given during labor. For others, it is not. And that's ok thumb.gif

I don't trust that figure. I ran that group 7 years, helped about 500 moms and had way more than a handful tell me about the debilitating headaches they endured after birth.
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#105 of 120 Old 09-30-2012, 11:06 AM
 
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The incidence of post dural puncture headaches is ~1%, which I wouldn't describe as "often", but yes it is a side effect to be aware of, especially since they can be quite severe and debilitating until they resolve. For many women, the quite small chance that they will get a PDPH afterwards is very much worth the almost guaranteed pain relief given during labor. For others, it is not. And that's ok thumb.gif

 

Yes - that's okay. If they know. I clearly remember my sister smiling her way through labour and telling me how much she loved the epidural. I have equally clear memories of her hobbling around, tears running down her cheeks, for most of the next three days, due to a debilitating backache.

 

She had two more pregnancies (three kids) after that, and refused the epidural. She told me she'd have never consented if she'd known it could cause that kind of pain. I don't really care if a woman decides the risk of the headache/backache is worth the pain relief - that's her business. But, a woman who doesn't know the epidural could give her a headache/backache isn't making that decision. She's having it made for her.

 

It's also not guaranteed pain relief. I've talked to quite a few women who have experienced either complete failure of the epidural (rare) or "windows" of pain. Several of the women who experienced windows said it was worse than the pre-epidural pain, because of the asymmetrical nature of the pains.

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#106 of 120 Old 10-06-2012, 08:19 AM
 
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Yes - that's okay. If they know. I clearly remember my sister smiling her way through labour and telling me how much she loved the epidural. I have equally clear memories of her hobbling around, tears running down her cheeks, for most of the next three days, due to a debilitating backache.

 

She had two more pregnancies (three kids) after that, and refused the epidural. She told me she'd have never consented if she'd known it could cause that kind of pain. I don't really care if a woman decides the risk of the headache/backache is worth the pain relief - that's her business. But, a woman who doesn't know the epidural could give her a headache/backache isn't making that decision. She's having it made for her.

 


I'm sorry to hear your sister fell into that 1%. I definitely agree she should have known about the risks, whether by looking them up herself beforehand or because her HCP informed her (which they most definitely should have). My guess is that it was in the written informed consent she signed in order to get the epidural. Since practically no one ever actually reads those things before signing them, she could have easily signed a form saying she knew and understood those risks and consented, without ever actually knowing the risks. I personally think every consent form should be gone over verbally, but I don't know how feasible that is.

 

 

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It's also not guaranteed pain relief. I've talked to quite a few women who have experienced either complete failure of the epidural (rare) or "windows" of pain. Several of the women who experienced windows said it was worse than the pre-epidural pain, because of the asymmetrical nature of the pains.

 

Right, I understand that. Which is exactly why I said "almost guaranteed" winky.gif

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#107 of 120 Old 10-06-2012, 08:27 AM
 
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I don't trust that figure. I ran that group 7 years, helped about 500 moms and had way more than a handful tell me about the debilitating headaches they endured after birth.

 

Well, you are certainly free to look up the studies yourself - the exact rate or percentage varies between studies, but they mostly fall around 1%. Also, please realize that anecdotes are not data; your experiences running your group cannot tell us anything very useful about the actual rate of PDPH in the population, especially since we have scientific data to rely on. 

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#108 of 120 Old 10-06-2012, 08:37 AM
 
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I think normal is meaningless word actually. It was normal for 20% of mothers to die in 18th century. So, we now longer want this normal.

 

In my first labor I went without epidural until last 4 hours and I will always regret it. I was tired and traumatized by pain and non of those things that were promised to work "relaxation methods, mediation, changing positions, walking and having my acupressure skilled dola with me worked. Plus I felt like a failure for not doing it naturally. I spend agonizing 2 weeks blaming myself.f

 

Second time around I said "Start the epidural and crank up the pitocin". I was in control and felt happy and pain free. My recovery was faster emotionally speaking. I felt very healed and it was easier to take care of my second baby. The breastfeeding went easier too because I was not so tired and overwrought with emotions.

 

My SIL had all natural labor in hospital. She did all the hypnobirthing classes with her MW. She drunk all the RLT . Etc etc etc. The hospital had tub, balls, supportive staff who let her labor in peace.

 

She felt that it was the worst pain of her life and and she had hard time processing how did it happen to her because every class led by her MW kept telling her that fear creates pain and my SIL was not in fear and very prepared.

 

My other friend just had a baby.  She was terrified of labor and actually dreamed of c-section.  She has an epidural form the starts because she had to me induced for medical reason. She LOVED her labor. She said it was like being in a spa and she feel really well cared for by nursling's. She had practically zero pain.

 

She is home, happy and very bonding to her kid who she is nursing on demand.

 

 

I do not know what normal is. I think pain and death  during labor is normal but I am not surprised that many women do not want that normal.

 

 

I do not think pain creates better bonding either. I loved both of my kids to no end and as the time passes by, I really do not care whatever I had a birthing experience or not, all I care about is that they are alive and not brain damaged thank to the expertise of people around me at that time.  To me, healthy child and healthy mom is the physical and spiritual and normal outcome of labor and delivery. If someone wants the pain as part of their spiritual journey, they can have it.

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#109 of 120 Old 10-06-2012, 10:18 AM
 
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I just think that all women should be informed about the risks and benefits of their various choices in labor. There are risks to not using pain relief... like, duh, being in pain for longer, being in so much pain for so long that you're too exhausted to push, etc. There are risks to using pain relief as well. There are risks to a C-section as well as to a vaginal birth. If we were all fully informed and supported by our care providers, we could make decisions based on our personal views and our own levels of comfort with various risks, and we wouldn't all necessarily make the same decisions and that's okay. It's the lack of information that really bugs me. If a mom has all the information about her options and picks the epidural or C-section, that's a valid decision. 

 

Oh, and I don't see what pain has to do with bonding either. I just have the one kid, and had a natural birth, but I'm pretty sure I'd still love her if the birth had gone differently. 

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#110 of 120 Old 10-08-2012, 07:46 AM
 
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Erigeron, I agree with everything you've said...we should all have access to good information and should be supported by our HCPs and should be able to make informed choices.

 

I also know that I adamantly did NOT want pitocin, an epidural, or a c-section. I felt I understood the risks very well and was very opposed to using those interventions. There came a point in my labor, however, where my choices ran out. My labor did not follow a normal pattern. Things that are "supposed" to help get things moving did not. Resting and replenishing were out of the question. I chose interventions reluctantly, unwillingly, with my back against the wall. I can't blame anyone for the path that labor took. I had an excellent doula, a hospital team that was very supportive of me doing things naturally, and I had a lot of tools that I drew on to help things go the way I wanted them to go. I just had to accept that at some point, my wishes, efforts, and plans didn't matter. My labor wasn't fully in my control, and I had to shift gears mentally in order to get through. It was definitely traumatic, and it has taken me years to process and heal from that experience.

 

So, yes, let's help women be informed and supported in making the best choices. AND let's be compassionate towards ourselves and others, because this thing called "birth" (and for that matter, this thing called "life") is not fully under our control.

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#111 of 120 Old 10-13-2012, 02:07 PM
 
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This has been such an interesting and meaningful thread. It has been an honor to read all of your stories, feelings, passions, and opinions.

I want to start by saying that ALL BIRTH IS NATURAL. Unmedicated births can be more gentle, but CS births are still natural. Women will still transform into mothers on the operating table, they still have to recover, they still have to go through the postpartum period, they still have to navigate motherhood. To shun a women who has had a CS birth, is to shun a massive transformation in any women's life. Women who adopt a baby are no less of a women because they did not birth their own child.

 

I have been a birth doula for 10 years, and have 3 children of my own. I am also a Craniosacral therapist, I specialize in seeing babies, new mothers, and children. I have my own opinions about birth, and parenting. Watching mothers go through the birth process in hospitals, birth centers and at their homes, has been one of the most amazing jobs i have ever had. Not one birth I have attended, including my own 3, have been the same. No two women will EVER have the same perspective about their bodies, their abilities, or similar life stories (even if they are twins).

 

I will disclose that I had one hospital birth, one birth center birth, and one home birth. All births were unmedicated, special, difficult, and memorable in their own ways.

 

I am slightly saddened to see that so many people believe that there are no physical or emotional consequences to the baby after a CS birth, beyond those in statistics. I see babies every week who are recovering from their birth. (I say recovering, because their little bodies go through SOOO much in birth, no matter how they were born)

I am acutely aware that CS births are sometimes necessary, I have seen several mothers try every possible way to vaginally birth their babes, still to finally have a CS birth. I came into the world via CS birth, I fully understand. Let me just say that babies who are born via CS birth come a different set of birth related issues. Just because your baby is "healthy" by medical standards, does not mean that your baby is happy, has a healthy bond, is comfortable and pain free, or free of other physiological issues (many develop later in toddler or childhood)  I am not implying that babies who are born via CS birth are worse off than babies who were born vaginally, I just mean that sometimes babies can have higher rates of issues, not always, but sometimes.

 

I believe it was the father in this thread that said that how a person comes into the world does not affect the rest of their lives. I wholeheartedly disagree. This used to be a belief, that babies did not remember anything that happens in birth, we now know that is not true. http://birthpsychology.com/free-article/infantile-amnesia-dead. In my professional work, and as a very mindful mother, I personally know that our bodies remember everything that has ever happened to us or in front of us, everything we have felt, learned or experienced. I know that seems impossible, but I assure you, our human bodies are AMAZING! We store this information to be able to navigate our world through all of our lives. To ignore the idea that a newborn does not take part in this experience, and has no memory of the experience, is a sign of lack of education in this area.

 

I encourage EVERY mother to read all of the available information, hire a doula, and make informed decisions. Stats are useless to be basing your choices by, in any direction. Birth is experiential, not statistical. You need to feel safe, supported, and ready to take part in this massive transformation into motherhood.

There is a difference in birth between pain and suffering. I have seen these two words being used often as the same. Pain is a response of the body, it increases in times of psychological need, and more often in times of fear. Suffering is when pain becomes unbearable, and the person is going to be permanently damaged by trauma (physical or psychologically). It is painful to stub your toe, but chances are you are not suffering. Many women have pain, even excruciating, during labor. How you view your pain is how you determine if you are suffering. In my own opinion, any women who is suffering needs to change her circumstances, if that includes pain relief, so be it. That is why it was invented, to relieve suffering, not to relieve pain.

 

All of this talk about choosing an medically unnecessary CS birth makes my stomach churn. Most US hospitals and OBGYN's will not provide completely elective CS births. They know that the risks outweigh the benefits. They are all coming to their professional senses and learning that putting a women into surgery is far more dangerous than letting her birth without. (I ONLY speak of low risk, healthy mothers, there are many circumstances to which vaginal birth, at this time,is not safer for high risk mothers).

BTW, the US is not the safest or healthiest place to be a pregnant or give birth. I wouldn't be pouting my life and my baby's life into the hands of much of our medical establishment if possible.

Though the U.S. spends more per birth than any other nation, maternal mortality is higher here than in 40 other industrialized countries, including Croatia, Hungary and Macedonia, and is double that of Canada and much of Western Europe.

 http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/22/science/la-sci-maternal-deaths-20100523

 

I completely agree with the OP, it is hard sometimes to see my friends disregard their personal power in the face of fear. It is not right or wrong, but it is what it is. I hope her friend is recovering beautifully with her sweet baby. 

 

Thank for your listening ears (well, eyes), and open minds.

 

Hoping all mothers can find peace within their birth and mothering choices. joy.gif

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#112 of 120 Old 10-20-2012, 01:12 PM
 
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One can argue until the cow comes home but  for me reality is simple. I would rather have a live baby  with whatever real or imagined post c-cestion issues than a dead one.

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#113 of 120 Old 10-20-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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One can argue until the cow comes home but  for me reality is simple. I would rather have a live baby  with whatever real or imagined post c-cestion issues than a dead one.

It's important to remember though, that even with a c-section, you're never guaranteed a live baby. Ever. 


Wife to a wonderful husband, mom to 5 amazing boys, 2 m/c and Knox Cornelius our 5th son born at 15weeks 12/3/2011, Lillian Faith our 1st daughter, born at 14 weeks May 19, 2012 (Turner Syndrome). 

 
           
 
 
 
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#114 of 120 Old 10-22-2012, 12:03 AM
 
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Of course not, but in cases of many types of issues, the chances are higher.
 

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#115 of 120 Old 04-08-2014, 09:47 PM
 
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Wonderful quote:

 

"THERE IS A SECRET ABOUT BIRTH IN OUR SOCIETY:

IT'S NOT THAT BIRTH IS PAINFUL - BUT THAT WOMEN ARE STRONG"

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#116 of 120 Old 04-08-2014, 10:29 PM
 
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Wonderful quote:

 

"THERE IS A SECRET ABOUT BIRTH IN OUR SOCIETY:

IT'S NOT THAT BIRTH IS PAINFUL - BUT THAT WOMEN ARE STRONG"

 

What does that mean, though?  To me, it reads as saying that if you found birth painful, it's because you're weak.  WHich, for the record, I don't believe.

 

I run long distances and lift and carry heavy things.  I found birth quite painful.  There appear to be women who find walking and rocking back and forth and sitting in tubs eases contraction pain, but I am not one of them.

 

Birth is painful.  Women are strong.  These are not related statements.

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#117 of 120 Old 04-09-2014, 07:26 AM
 
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I don't agree with the statement as it's presented, but I have always taken it to mean that birth is painful, and even though that is the case, women can survive through the pain.
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#118 of 120 Old 04-09-2014, 11:39 AM
 
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What does that mean, though?  To me, it reads as saying that if you found birth painful, it's because you're weak.  WHich, for the record, I don't believe.

 

I run long distances and lift and carry heavy things.  I found birth quite painful.  There appear to be women who find walking and rocking back and forth and sitting in tubs eases contraction pain, but I am not one of them.

 

Birth is painful.  Women are strong.  These are not related statements.

 

I'm not super crazy about the quote, but I don't think it's saying anything about women who find birth painful. I think it's more pointing out that we're constantly hammered with how painful birth is, but the fact that women do get through it (and many go on to have more children) gets overlooked.


Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#119 of 120 Old 04-16-2014, 05:30 PM
 
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Sorry, meepy cat, I think you've missed the point here

 

No-one is denying that birth is painful - me least of all !

 

What this quote is intended to say is that birth being painful is no secret -

 

The 'secret' in current western society is our ability to cope with the pain.

 

So many women form a belief that the pain will be 'too' much' for them to bear before they even experience it. Many women are told that they need/want an epidural before they ever ask for it.

I know women who, having planned to get an epidural when the going got tough, found that they managed to birth their baby before this ever happened!

We are often more capable of coping with pain than we ever believed / anticipated

 

Most 'natural'  forms of pain-relief for child birth  are aimed at helping us cope with pain, and women who expect that they will remove the pain usually find them disappointing because they don't.

There is nothing 'weak' about finding birth painful and difficult. There is nothing 'weak' about requiring assistance to birth your baby if things don't go right for you.

 

But the fact that women can and do birth babies all the time tells you that we ARE strong!

Here's another quote: "If men had to birth babies, they would only ever have one each."

 

We really do rock, actually!

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#120 of 120 Old 04-24-2014, 02:52 PM
 
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Sorry, meepy cat, I think you've missed the point here

 

No-one is denying that birth is painful - me least of all !

 

What this quote is intended to say is that birth being painful is no secret -

 

The 'secret' in current western society is our ability to cope with the pain.

 

So many women form a belief that the pain will be 'too' much' for them to bear before they even experience it. Many women are told that they need/want an epidural before they ever ask for it.

I know women who, having planned to get an epidural when the going got tough, found that they managed to birth their baby before this ever happened!

We are often more capable of coping with pain than we ever believed / anticipated

 

Most 'natural'  forms of pain-relief for child birth  are aimed at helping us cope with pain, and women who expect that they will remove the pain usually find them disappointing because they don't.

There is nothing 'weak' about finding birth painful and difficult. There is nothing 'weak' about requiring assistance to birth your baby if things don't go right for you.

 

But the fact that women can and do birth babies all the time tells you that we ARE strong!

Here's another quote: "If men had to birth babies, they would only ever have one each."

 

We really do rock, actually!

 

 

Agreed, except on the latest quote, which you have wrong.  Its,

 

"If men had to birth babies, there would be no babies." 

 

Ask my dad, who insists that guys are too practical and would never even try.  He knows how to make a 9 months pregnant daughter feel better ;).  And yep its painful but doable.  Its worse when youdon't pay attention to yourself or listen to your birth team (who are usually right that youcan ramp down the pushing until you've actually dialated all the way.... and  other obvious things).

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