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Mother 'brainwashed' over home birth dies

3K views 25 replies 14 participants last post by  kait 
#1 ·
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9523610/Mother-brainwashed-over-home-birth-dies.html

I came here because, having read this article, I'm wondering whether to keep fighting for home births. There are a lot of reactionary people out there and as much as I try to change my friends and colleagues opinions, the media coverage is relentlessly negative.

Anyone got some thoughts on this? I still consider myself extremely pro home birth, it's just the natural way, but it's getting harder and harder.
 
#2 ·
I, personally, would not have a home birth due to my history. However, I don't think it's fair for the mainstream media to only focus on negative outcomes in homebirth or on irresponsible caregivers. There are so many homebirth stories with happy endings.
 
#4 ·
Oh that's a terribly sad story. :(

Just a few months ago a neighbor of mine had a similar experience. Incompetent surgeons cut one of her arteries while preforming a c-section on her. =/ It took them days to discover this. They couldn't figure out why she was bleeding to death in front of them. Makes me really angry. Thankfully they discovered it before it was too late.

Whether you go the hospital route, the midwife route, or a combination, you MUST do your research to ensure that your professional knows what he or she is doing. And even then, have knowledgeable people you trust (who are willing to question authority) around you to keep a watchful eye out for you. When telling people about home birthing, stress this that neither way is completely risk free, but that if you are careful about your choices, it is far more likely to go better. :)

My own mother delivered my two siblings and I in our home, with the help of an excellent midwife. I was supposed to be a midwife/hospital birth, but I was arriving too quickly for my mother to make it to the hospital in time. :p So also, it might be good to mention that possibility to people. When you have a good midwife, you have an advocate in the hospital, as well as someone to take over supposing you cannot make it there. :)
 
#5 ·
Stories like this always devastate me...firstly, because I cannot imagine anything more horrific than a family losing a mother in the hours after a new baby is born (that just steals my breath to even think about)....but also because I cannot imagine allowing a MW to treat me that way.

I mean, okay...we still have to get to the bottom of what actually happened here, that's true. The husband is obviously speaking from a place of unimaginable loss and grief and anger...and the midwife is trying to save her own skin...but somewhere between their two statements is fact. The FACT that this woman was missing a huge chunk out of her placenta is the only thing I care about. The MW shouldn't have left and the mother should have been able to recognize (in my opinion) that such a huge piece of her placenta was missing. Being a homebirther myself, I didn't just take anyone's word for it. I inspected my own placentas thoroughly...not because I don't trust my midwife, but because I hold MYSELF ultimately responsible for decisions relating to my care, especially after a homebirth.

RE: Brainwashing - "she said it was safe" - REALLY? That was the extent of this MWs effort to "brainwash"?? The woman/family DECIDED to choose homebirth...they weren't brainwashed into anything. I think the most important element involved in the decision to HB is your level of comfort with accepting personal responsibility for your birth outcome. The MW in this scenario is not to be scorned for saying homebirth is a safe option...for many/most women it is...she should be SERIOUSLY questioned for missing or disregarding the fact that a third of this woman's placenta was retained.

I can't believe the loss this family has suffered. I just sit here, 13 weeks after my last birth, shaking my head trying to imagine what a loss like that would do to a family. Can any of you imagine what your husband would do? It's unthinkable.

But at the same time, when I read stories like this, I don't know what all of these women are thinking? Why would any woman who plans to homebirth NOT know what a placenta coming out in pieces looks like? Why would ANY woman who plans to HB let a MW yank on her cord?? That's insanity. In the beginning of my birth journey, when I decided out of hospital was the way for me, I recognized that being out of hospital means team and teams of people with cutting edge technology are not there to save me, pump me full of blood as I'm losing it, operate on me, etc etc...and that, in my mind, meant that I needed to feel comfortable with UCing. I needed to prepare myself as if I were UCing because I would never feel comfortable just taking someone elses word for it when it came to birth decisions at home.

I have a super, awesome friendship that I feel will last a lifetime with my MW. But that had to grow. I trust her now and know her skill level is amazing and I am in awe of her knowledge...but I would still never let her whisk a placenta away, saying "oh, it's fine" - I'd be like "jah, whatever...bring it back" - but she would never feel comfortable NOT showing me..so, whatever.

I just think people need to go into HB a bit more prepared. Obviously, we can't all become MWs before we deliver...but we should all be able to properly inspect a placenta. Right? Am I off base?

Sigh. I don't know. I don't talk about HB a much as I used to IRL. :shrugs:
 
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#6 ·
Apparently this is what the midwife said at the hearing "Claire had a great pregnancy, she had a really lovely spontaneous birth at home and I hope Simon in time will remember that." How completely and utterly heartless. How can a birth that ends in a death be lovely?

Kait, but they did figure out why she was bleeding, and they did save her life. This woman bled to death in front of her husband because her midwife was too incompetent/uncaring to help her. And then the midwife turns around and blames the husband and the dead mother.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

Apparently this is what the midwife said at the hearing "Claire had a great pregnancy, she had a really lovely spontaneous birth at home and I hope Simon in time will remember that." How completely and utterly heartless. How can a birth that ends in a death be lovely?

Kait, but they did figure out why she was bleeding, and they did save her life. This woman bled to death in front of her husband because her midwife was too incompetent/uncaring to help her. And then the midwife turns around and blames the husband and the dead mother.
I know what you mean, that quote from the MW makes me sick...how about "I'm so devastated that this beautiful mother and wife died in a birth I was attending, but I really and truly believe I did everything I could for her. If I could turn back time and do anything differently to save her, I would, I would do anything to erase the pain this family is feeling" - you know? Something like that is more along the lines of what I think would be appropriate. "I hope he can remember that she had a lovely birth" - no, I don't think that "in time" he is going to remember that part. :/

I think what Kait was saying, is that there are incompetent/uncaring OB's, too, and I agree with her completely. The focus on HB being "soooo dangerous" is pretty infuriating, considering that accidents and incompetence happen in hospital settings, too..and, you know...pretty frequently.
 
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#8 ·
Eh, I am getting tired of the whole thing too. Pretty much anything I have to say about the stories coming out is going to offend *someone*, so... I ended up choosing hospital birth with my last one, for several reasons, but one of them was not feeling comfortable with midwife options.

Broody, that is something to think about. I can't stand the sight of blood, but I totaly believe in personal responsibility in birth.

And I agree about the midwives comments. Seriously, that is all she can say???
 
#9 ·
You know, fruitfulmama, I find my "courage" is fading with time...I am not the mama I was when I started this whole thing. I'm more tired I think...my heart is more scarred by losses experienced in my circle of friends. Things just seem less sure, you know? When I started this, I was all "I'm going to do everything right and everything is going to be GREAT!" - yeah. Now it's more like "messed up things happen, indiscriminately, all the time" - it's a bit less easy to be so cavalier I think, when you know so many people who have lost children. In the past four years, as my circle of mama friends has grown, I've known too many who have suffered the unthinkable. :(

I just delivered my third baby in exactly four years. I can't believe it's only been four years! It feels like a lifetime of living since I had my first...but really, it's been a blink, a blur. This baby was a UC. No panic, no surprise...MW was just too far away and I had 15 minutes heads up that I was in labor and five minutes heads up that she was going to be coming out, well, immediately. So MW wasn't even called until a few minutes after the birth and happen to be further away than usual. Here's the thing: I always wanted a UC. I had two, 90-minute labors with my first two kids and I labor so well and love it so much and I always pushed to go UC, but my DH is not down with that. So, for my first two, the MW sat in another part of the house and everyone left me alone and it was "close enough" to what I wanted but not EXACTLY what I wanted.

Well, I wanted one...then I had one. I don't know if I would ever choose to do that again. I woke up in the wee hours of the morning, restless, couldn't sleep. 5am. 39 weeks pregnant. Decided to take a shower. Ten minutes after I woke up I was like "oooh, I think I'm going to be in labor!" - five minutes after that I was sitting in my bath tub, holding Fiona.

I called my husband as loud as I could, he came. He was shocked....but it was peaceful and calm. So that was nice. Except, she wasn't moving and her color sucked and I just couldn't get her to breathe...I was holding a limp, grey baby. It was in that moment, that it hit me: I really WAS the bottom line...the buck stopped with me. It was just me and my baby and the decisions I made, could be the first and last I ever made for her. That struck me in a way that, I think, has left a crater in my heart.

"My baby is going to die, my body spit her out so fast because there is something wrong I have to call an ambulance this is all wrong she's going to die right here in my arms" - that's all I could think for a solid thirty seconds to a minute. I stayed calm outwordly, I think for my husband, but I was racing so fearfully inside. Being faced with that as an actual reality, being alone, not being a trained MW or MD or whatever...it was an incredibly humbling experience for me. In a moment like that, "well educated birth lover" feels like a pretty weak statement. :/

Well, my baby was fine, she'd just had an intense experience and was a bit stunned (going from dozing to being in the world in fifteen minutes will do that to a baby!). for the first minute of her life, I was trying to get the phone to call an ambulance...two minutes in, things were looking better...five minutes after her birth, I was okay. Longest five minutes of my life. My DH managed to snap a picture of us in the tub, I've never seen my face looking like that and I hope I never do again. I looked like a ghost. I was scared shitless. I can't say that, in my adult life, I've ever ACTUALLY felt scared like that...anxiety about this or that, yeah...but I was filled with sheer terror.

So yeah. I know what my placenta is supposed to look like. I'm prepared with an herbal kit, just in case. I memorized all the danger signs for this and that and blah blah...but you know, in a situation of real panic, of absolute terror like that...I'm pretty sure I would want a badass MW by my side. Being alone, just me and my baby, experiencing birth...in the still of the morning...it was intense because it was lightening fast, but it was really nice. Yeah. Fuck that. I will probably never have a baby again (breaks my heart to even think that) - but if I did, I would do everything in my power to have my amazing MW there, knitting quietly in the next room. Being the only one in the room for my birthing was nice...but I think having someone who has SEEN emergency, been in it and came through to the other side, waiting in the wings allows for a level of relaxation for me that I wouldn't be able to experience now, if I were alone again in birth. I loved my UC. Until she was born.

I'm not saying a mother cannot be alone in her birthing or whatever..I think UC is a great choice for many many women. But for me, being faced with the ACTUAL sole responsibility for those choices (do I call the ambulance, do I try to resuscitate?) showed me that it's more than I would want to put on myself again. I think that, beyond blame, being able to SHARE the grief of things going wrong with someone else would be really important. Having someone who is highly skilled, who was there, to say "this was a tragic, unavoidable accident...you couldn't have done anything" would lend some comfort. Maybe a little....and I think a little must go a long way when you are facing something like that.
 
#10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroodyWoodsgal View Post

I know what you mean, that quote from the MW makes me sick...how about "I'm so devastated that this beautiful mother and wife died in a birth I was attending, but I really and truly believe I did everything I could for her. If I could turn back time and do anything differently to save her, I would, I would do anything to erase the pain this family is feeling" - you know? Something like that is more along the lines of what I think would be appropriate. "I hope he can remember that she had a lovely birth" - no, I don't think that "in time" he is going to remember that part. :/

I think what Kait was saying, is that there are incompetent/uncaring OB's, too, and I agree with her completely. The focus on HB being "soooo dangerous" is pretty infuriating, considering that accidents and incompetence happen in hospital settings, too..and, you know...pretty frequently.
I know that's what she's saying, but I disagree with that sentiment. The woman in Kait's example is able to snuggle her baby, and live her life. Medical mistakes do happen, but although it may have taken some time for them to figure out exactly what was happening, but they did figure it out and save her life. That midwife in the UK seemingly shrugged her shoulders and walked away and let a woman die a completely preventable death. And then to spin it like it was lovely. I just... I feel such rage about this. About the women who will never know her child, about the child who will never snuggle against his/her mother, about the husband who has to pick up the pieces.

And, unfortunately, Broody, as you have seen over the last several years (and I've seen it, too), this has become all too common. I'm very glad that your baby is fine, BTW.
 
#11 ·
Wow, that must have been scary. Don't know how I would have handled that. I ended up with a pit induction after she failed her nst/bpp and it went great as far as all that but I pushed her out so hard and fast that she didn't expell all the mucous and she was choking on it later that night when the ped came in to check her. He was all calm about helping her but I was silently freaking out.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity Now View Post

I know that's what she's saying, but I disagree with that sentiment. The woman in Kait's example is able to snuggle her baby, and live her life. Medical mistakes do happen, but although it may have taken some time for them to figure out exactly what was happening, but they did figure it out and save her life. That midwife in the UK seemingly shrugged her shoulders and walked away and let a woman die a completely preventable death. And then to spin it like it was lovely. I just... I feel such rage about this. About the women who will never know her child, about the child who will never snuggle against his/her mother, about the husband who has to pick up the pieces.

And, unfortunately, Broody, as you have seen over the last several years (and I've seen it, too), this has become all too common. I'm very glad that your baby is fine, BTW.
To be honest, that's who I feel the worst for...the husbands. To know, love and cherish a woman...watch her give you a beautiful child...and then watch her slip away from you forever. How do you cope with that? How do you tell this child who his/her mother was and do her any amount of justice? I think about how my husband would move on from that and I just can't understand how it's possible.

I understand what you are saying and I agree that maybe the example Kait shared is not (definitely is not) an equal match to the story in the OPs post...but I think the point is that, women DO die in the hospitals and medical professionals in the hospital are also sometimes extremely callous and dismissive. This MW obviously has some serious explaining to do, there is no doubt about that, but what Kait was attempting to illustrate, is that unfeeling douchebags, incompetence and and medical mistakes lurk in all sorts of places...not just homebirth. I know the example she gave doesn't fit, because the doctors in the hospital kept trying to figure out what was wrong, eventually did figure it out and saved the mothers life...while the MW in the story just kind of walked away and a mother died...but we COULD definitely go and find examples of women dying at the hands of callous, jerk doctors in the hospital, too. THat's all I'm saying.

Thank you for your well wishes...I know now that my baby was not in danger...it just felt that way at the time. It was scary and it totally changed the way I view birth stories where something actually DOES go wrong and my heart feels such tenderness and love for women who have had to go through that...not knowing if there babies would survive. That's just crazy, crazy scary bad.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

Wow, that must have been scary. Don't know how I would have handled that. I ended up with a pit induction after she failed her nst/bpp and it went great as far as all that but I pushed her out so hard and fast that she didn't expell all the mucous and she was choking on it later that night when the ped came in to check her. He was all calm about helping her but I was silently freaking out.
I'm sorry to hear that things went that way for you, failing a nst must have been scary!

It's really scary when we don't know what is up with our babies...it can happen anywhere, too...glad everything turned out just fine for you and your squishy baby, mama. <3
 
#14 ·
Broody, thank you so much for writing about your birth story and the emotions surrounding it. My second daughter's heart rate dropped v low at the v end and my husband defines that moment as the most terrifying of his life. I was not scared since, as the one doing the birthing, I knew she was almost out. That experience put him off of homebirthing permanently (we've never attempted one). I really wanted to go for a homebirth this time around, but went with his wishes and will be having another lovely hospital midwife birth next month. The way you explained things sums it up wonderfully for those of us who do choose hospital births. There can be a good bit of hostility from the homebirthing community when you say that you want to be in a hospital "just in case". Like you are trying to insult someone. I'm not trying to insult anyone; I have two other children & know EXACTLY what I would be losing should the unimaginable happen. Which could happen anywhere at any time to any one of my children, I do realize. But this statement: "It was just me and my baby and the decisions I made, could be the first and last I ever made for her." Am I prepared to face that during birth? Absolutely not.
 
#15 ·
This quote makes me extremely angry...""Claire had a great pregnancy, she had a really lovely spontaneous birth at home and I hope Simon in time will remember that.""

If a mother or baby dies, it is not a lovely birth. End of story. This shows that the midwife cares more about the process than the outcome. She sees the birth experience as more important than if the participants loose their lives due to her neglect. She should not be allowed to put lives in danger in this way.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogretro View Post

Broody, thank you so much for writing about your birth story and the emotions surrounding it. My second daughter's heart rate dropped v low at the v end and my husband defines that moment as the most terrifying of his life. I was not scared since, as the one doing the birthing, I knew she was almost out. That experience put him off of homebirthing permanently (we've never attempted one). I really wanted to go for a homebirth this time around, but went with his wishes and will be having another lovely hospital midwife birth next month. The way you explained things sums it up wonderfully for those of us who do choose hospital births. There can be a good bit of hostility from the homebirthing community when you say that you want to be in a hospital "just in case". Like you are trying to insult someone. I'm not trying to insult anyone; I have two other children & know EXACTLY what I would be losing should the unimaginable happen. Which could happen anywhere at any time to any one of my children, I do realize. But this statement: "It was just me and my baby and the decisions I made, could be the first and last I ever made for her." Am I prepared to face that during birth? Absolutely not.
Exactly. Because I always felt so prepared and sure of myself, I never felt like it would be a big deal to go completely UC. I truly believed that I was holding myself completely and solely responsible for my outcomes..until the moment when I WAS actually and completely accountable. Now that I've been that route, I realize that...while I remain convinced that a mother is truly accountable for her own birth choices...there is no shame in WANTING someone there to SHARE the burden of actually making those choices. Whether that means having one MW there, like I would choose, or a whole hospital packed to the brim with doctors, nurses and technology, as many others choose..is up to the mother and her level of comfort. No mother should ever have to feel horror, or anything close to it, when she is in her birthing time.
 
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#17 ·
As a medical professional, I'm bothered by the idea accompanying homebirth midwifery that the patient/mother/client is ultimately responsible. I interviewed with a home birth practice, one of the most popular and experienced in my area, and this attitude communicated to me during the visit and contained in all their literature really concerned me. Either you are medical providers or you aren't. If you are, you need to take responsibility for what happens on your watch, and if you aren't, why should you be taken seriously on the same level as providers who do take this responsibility? I consider myself to be responsible for the outcomes in my practice because I am the one with the knowledge, training, and licensure, and my patients shouldn't be required to bear this responsibility for me.

Who would hire a "legal consultant" to do their will who claimed to be certified through a home-study course and apprenticeship, had never taken the bar exam, and said that if there were problems with the will it wasn't their fault? I mean, sure, you could hire this person if you wanted someone to just offer an extra pair of eyes with maybe some minimal expertise. But I think it would be pretty disingenious of them to claim they're just as good as lawyers, just as trained, have just as good of outcomes, etc.

Bottom line I think professionals have to take responsibility for their outcomes.
 
#18 ·
This truly is a tragic story and does look like it may have been preventable. However I would hesitate to condemn the midwife on a tabloid newspaper article. We don't know if she said anything else. That is the only comment the newspaper quoted from her, and could easily be taken out of context or distorted to help make the story more dramatic. It would be better to wait until the inquiry is over and then see what conclusions they come to, with all the available information.

Nothing can make up for this loss, but condemning all homebirth is not the solution either.
 
#20 ·
She compared it to a home study course and apprenticeship -- which is, in fact, an accurate decription of the training of any number of CPMs (such as graduates of the Ancient Arts Midwifery Program).

That is a valid course towards being a midwife, so I'm not sure why its insulting? Obviously, it is not the route of all midwives (such as CNMs), so maybe she spoke overly broadly...
 
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#21 ·
yeah, I was talking about CPMs. As buzzbuzz noted, there are CPMs who receive training via a home study course followed by an apprenticeship.

It just seems to me that if CPMs are going to fight for states to legitimize them, to be covered by insurance companies, etc, they shouldn't then turn around and say that they aren't responsible for any of their outcomes. If you want that role you should take responsibility for what goes with it.

This was a slightly different situation because it was a UK midwife, but she did evince that "I'm not responsible for the outcome" thing that seems to come up a lot. Perhaps I am a little off-topic but the thread seemed to me to be discussing homebirth midwifery and responsibility in general, not specifically in the UK. I'm in the US so that is what I am more aware of.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroodyWoodsgal View Post

To be honest, that's who I feel the worst for...the husbands. To know, love and cherish a woman...watch her give you a beautiful child...and then watch her slip away from you forever. How do you cope with that? How do you tell this child who his/her mother was and do her any amount of justice? I think about how my husband would move on from that and I just can't understand how it's possible.
Honestly, this is exactly what I think about every time some mama posts about how she is going to have the homebirth of her dreams whether her husband supports it or not- her body her choice.
 
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#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

She compared it to a home study course and apprenticeship -- which is, in fact, an accurate decription of the training of any number of CPMs (such as graduates of the Ancient Arts Midwifery Program).

That is a valid course towards being a midwife, so I'm not sure why its insulting? Obviously, it is not the route of all midwives (such as CNMs), so maybe she spoke overly broadly...
Except we all know full and well EXACTLY what you feel about CPMs. I bet you make a little squealing sound every time you read a story like the one in the OP. "see, see!!" you probably say to yourself. Sigh. Whatever. This is where I exit the thread. My stop seems to be wherever you get on the bus.
 
#24 ·
Really, I find it terribly sad that you think I would take any pleasure in the death of any woman, especially the mother of two children. The description of her death by the ambulance driver -- that she was swimming in her blood -- is enough to break anyone's heart.

Sub-par health care devastates lives no matter who provides it. My view is that the appropriate action is not to shrug one's shoulders. It is to look toward change that improves actual outcomes. In that vein, I am especially admiring of the efforts of those behind the safter midwifery for michigan website http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogspot.com/ and similar efforts who have turned their devastating loss into action toward better outcomes.
 
#25 ·
Gosh, Im really surprised at the venomous tone of some of the comments .

Poor care is poor care wherever it is delivered .

A competent midwife should have checked the placenta carefully in an adeqautely lit place.

There was more coverage in the UK press which highlighted that her husband made multiple calls to the midwife over ongoing blood loss.

I'm afraid this isnt an issue about homebirth but about the safety of mothers and care providers taking responsibility .

There was another recent case where a homebirth mother in the UK bled to death after suffering an inverted uterus following delivery of the placenta .

The midwife didnt let the Hospital staff know what the problem was and the lady exsanguinated before they could rush her to theatre .

I take no pleasure in letting others know these facts but ask why is it OK to bash Dr's & Hospital care if we dont hold midwives to the same standards ?
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzzbuzz View Post

Really, I find it terribly sad that you think I would take any pleasure in the death of any woman, especially the mother of two children. The description of her death by the ambulance driver -- that she was swimming in her blood -- is enough to break anyone's heart.

Sub-par health care devastates lives no matter who provides it. My view is that the appropriate action is not to shrug one's shoulders. It is to look toward change that improves actual outcomes. In that vein, I am especially admiring of the efforts of those behind the safter midwifery for michigan website http://safermidwiferyformichigan.blogspot.com/ and similar efforts who have turned their devastating loss into action toward better outcomes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heatherfd View Post

Gosh, Im really surprised at the venomous tone of some of the comments .

Poor care is poor care wherever it is delivered .

A competent midwife should have checked the placenta carefully in an adeqautely lit place.

There was more coverage in the UK press which highlighted that her husband made multiple calls to the midwife over ongoing blood loss.

I'm afraid this isnt an issue about homebirth but about the safety of mothers and care providers taking responsibility .

There was another recent case where a homebirth mother in the UK bled to death after suffering an inverted uterus following delivery of the placenta .

The midwife didnt let the Hospital staff know what the problem was and the lady exsanguinated before they could rush her to theatre .

I take no pleasure in letting others know these facts but ask why is it OK to bash Dr's & Hospital care if we dont hold midwives to the same standards ?
Amen! :p We need to be aware and informed, whichever service we are using.
 
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