what's with this trend of starting labor < 40 weeks? - Page 4 - Mothering Forums
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#91 of 110 Old 06-28-2004, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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applejuice, please cite your source.

my SIL was born prematurely (at 34 weeks) and is currently enrolled in all of the honors / gifted programs at her elementary school.
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#92 of 110 Old 06-28-2004, 10:56 PM
 
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One of the OB's where I work did a repete c/sec on a woman at 36 +some change days (he was going out of town). The baby had immature lungs (it *does* happen occassionally even in the 9th month), wound up intubated, has mild CP and the OB got sued - and lost to the tune of a few million. Part of the problem was that he had assured the parents that there was no risk in doing the c/sec a bit early. Do you think *that* was worth it?
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#93 of 110 Old 06-28-2004, 11:12 PM
 
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I am glad your SIL is beating the system. I am sure she is very intelligent and deserves to be in those classes and is doing well. That is not my point.

My sources:

Every class I have had in educational psychology and my special education class. Prematurity is repeatedly cited as an impediment to intellectual, academic, and scholastic excellence and advancement. I am in CA, so maybe this is only CA, but I have worked in MA and in England, and got the impression the administrations think the same.

I have only done IEP's in CA. I am limited in that facet. I know for a fact that with the nurse, school psychologist, school speech therapists, teacher, resource specialist, principal present with the parent that their POV will guide the outcome of the meeting.

As a parent, I know that the public school system asks if the child is premature on the physical done when the child enters school and the landmark events are asked for at that time also.

I do not agree with this thinking at all. I just want to point out that deliberately inducing an entire generation of children is wrong no matter what an ob says.

Besides, I was a preemie myself, born at home four pounds twelve ounces, and I have done quite well myself. If I was born in a hospital in the early 1950s, there is a small chance I would be blind today because of the routines that were employed in the newborn nurseries at that time with oxygen being used in on the preemies. DES was prescribed for my mom also, but she did not fill it. Prematurit is a favorite diagnosis doctors like to create treatments for.
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#94 of 110 Old 06-28-2004, 11:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice
...
Therefore if you are foolish enough to allow some obstetrican to induce labor before forty weeks, your child will never be considered to be a candidate for the "Gifted" or "Enrichment Program" since educational psychologists are trained in the educational departments of universities to believe that a child born before term can NEVER be considered for the "Gifted" or "Enrichment Program".
...
...
Where will that obstetrician be who coerced you into being induced at 37 weeks? There will be a new and improved obstetrical trend in five to ten years from now, after they have damaged your child.

You are going to live with the decision and the child for a long time after your baby is born!
Okay, I find this to be one of the most personally offensive posts I've read here at MDC in a long time. Are you saying that because my DD was born at 37wks, she is less intelligent than other children? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying, and I must emphatically disagree with that assessment. Not that I am the slightest bit concerned about any programs offered by public schools, but the principle of the matter...

Not only did my daughter, who was born via cesarean after failed induction, at 37 weeks (though, with my long cycles it was probably closer to 36 weeks), start speaking in complete sentences at 11 months of age, but she is already learning to read at only three years! She already knows more than most first-graders, and her home/unschooling has been entirely her doing.

ETA
And another thing...
It sure sounds from that same post, that you are blaming women for being "foolish enough to allow" their doctor to induce them? Uh, excuse me, we aren't here to blame the victims, you know. : If it hasn't happened to you, you have no place sitting in judgement of those of us who has been there and done that.
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#95 of 110 Old 06-28-2004, 11:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice


Therefore if you are foolish enough to allow some obstetrican to induce labor before forty weeks, your child will never be considered to be a candidate for the "Gifted" or "Enrichment Program" since educational psychologists are trained in the educational departments of universities to believe that a child born before term can NEVER be considered for the "Gifted" or "Enrichment Program".

.
This is a rather hurtful post, I would have to agree. First of all, a preemie is considered a baby born at 36 wks or before. Not before 40 wks. Second of all, one of my best friend's daughters was born at 35 wks because her mother had pre eclampsia and is literally the smartest child I've ever met in my life. She is five years old and knows about as much as my 12 year old (whom I consider to be really smart). This is such a sensitive subject for many people, myself included. Twice I allowed myself to be induced and, of course, regretted it after the fact. Even though my babies were healthy, normal, and rather large (over 8 1/2 lbs). Still, they were born at or before 40 wks and I felt guilty. I've never considered them premature, however, and when asked if they were early I say no. I never considered that they were. As for the public school and their way of doing things, don't even get me started there. They wanted one of my children (who was 5 days past his due date) to go into special ed b/c he was distracting others during class. He was reading in kindergarten and apparently that was special ed to that teacher.

Mother's have to trust their instincts even if it means induction or csection. And they should NOT be judged for it nor should their babies.

Amy - Blessed wife to Jesse (the best dad in the world), mother of 10 on earth plus 8 in heaven.   PROUD to be a Catholic! : winner.jpg familybed2.gifhomeschool.gif

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#96 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 12:08 AM
 
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I am not saying that I feel this way.

I am delivering the message. Do not "kill" the messenger.

The message is that public school officials do not believe that children born premature are capable of superior scholastic, academic, and intellectual performance. I have worked in the public schools for thirty years and there is a definite POV in this regard. Prematurity is only one of the disadvantages that a child can have as far as these officials are concerned. Educators are constantly looking for ways to blame the shortcomings of the educational process on the children they teach, their parents, the home environment and a galaxy of other variables.

I stated that I was a premature infant, four pounds twelve ounces. Despite that "shortcoming", I have been intelligent enough to see through my professors' lies.

I am sorry that I offended anyone. I simply was trying to state the POV that a mother who is pressured to make such a hasty decision will think beyond that moment to the future.

As for being intimidated by physicians, that is far too common a situation. I have been intimidated by them, but I have stood my ground. You have to remember that you will live with the decision and its consequences, not the doctor.

I hope I have made myself clear.

Again, let me apologize for offending anyone as that was not my intent. I wanted to inform, not antagonize.
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#97 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Every class I have had in educational psychology and my special education class. Prematurity is repeatedly cited as an impediment to intellectual, academic, and scholastic excellence and advancement.
while i wasn't offended, i just find what you're saying hard to believe ~ in every class i've taken in psych., child dev. + child psych., prematurity was never discussed like this.

(the one thing that was continually attributed as "an impediment to intellectual, academic, and scholastic excellence and advancement" was a lack of attachment, and a lack of stable relationships formed in the early 0-3 years.)
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#98 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 03:47 AM
 
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I find this a bit hard to believe too. Espeically since when we were confronted with having a premature child I did a lot of research regarding perspective problems, physical/intellectual inpacts of being born premature (DS was a 29 weeks preemie). I KNOW for a fact that a study I read regarding IQ and early premature infants at the age of 8, showed that these children scored HIGHER on IQ tests than their peers. NOw, I'll have to go dig out the citation.

Boy, if what you're saying is true... another reason I am glad I am over here in Switzerland and NOT at home.

Olivia
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#99 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 12:20 PM
 
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HI
I couldn't read this whole thread so bear with me
My best friend is preg with her fourth and she is begging to be induced at 38 weeks. Her doc said fine. So she went in for her appt yesterday and she is dialated 1 and has been for a while. Her Doc said that they would induce with a small dose of pitocin. They did an ultrasound two weeks ago and told her that her baby was almost 9 lb then and so they want to make sure that she will be able to deliver it. Her largest baby was 8.6. I'm worried about her. My friend is putting so much trust in her doc. Ultrasound is not accurate for birth weight. I had one done at 37weeks and was told that ds was well over 9 lb and he was 8lb 9 oz. Not even close to 9 lb. Her first two babies were not induced. Her last one she begged to have her water broken but she was already dialated so they didn't have to do pitocin. She is scheduled to go to the hospital on Thursday morning. I don't want her to do it.
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#100 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 03:25 PM
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I feel so angry for your friend. Doctors SHOULD NOT be reassuring women that having a baby at 37 weeks is the same as 40, 41, 42, etc. I believed that "full term" meant "fully cooked" and allowed them to AROM. To this day, I have SO MUCH guilt. My DD's first months were absolutely terrible for her and us. We weren't in the NICU, but she was FTT, dangerous jaundice, reflux and colic that lasted until she was 5 mo.

She was unable to nurse for nearly a month because she had not developed the ability to suck yet... does your friend know that this happens in the 38-39 weeks. Yes, there are some babies who develop it earlier, but a lot do not. If she is planning to breastfeed she will want to prepare herself for the possibility that she may have to pump and finger/cup feed her baby until the baby learns to suck. I thought I was sleepless during my pregnancy... I didn't know slepless until I had to wake every 2 hours, pump 10 minutes, rouse a lethargic newborn and struggle to finger feed her. And that doesn't even take into account the hours and money we spent teaching her to latch and nurse.

Not to mention the months and months and months and months of crying because she refluxed everytime she ate. And the colic that nothing could fix because she was mentally unable to adjust to the world and the traumatic way she entered.

I truly hope that your friend has a different experience. I cannot tell you how many nights I felt like a monster, as my baby cried and cried inconsolably because she was so unhappy at being ripped from my womb so abruptly. I still carry an enourmous amount of guilt. I truly wish I had known better and I wish someone had told me the real risks of induction. (yes, even tho I was in labor, I consider my AROM induction!)
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#101 of 110 Old 06-29-2004, 06:00 PM
 
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Just the fact that this thread is so long speaks to the fact what a problem this is. Almost all of the mom's I know around here were either induced or had elective c/s. A mom that I know that is due July 6 is being induced today, as a matter of fact.

My sister's water broke at 36 weeks, and they only let her try to labor on her own for about two hours before they told her she needed pitocin or the baby could get infection. It was annoying, b/c I had just talked to her and told her she had at least 18-24 hours minimum before she needed anything to "start" contractions. But what do I know?

I get so sick of hearing about it as well. Just another way to tell women that their bodies don't work and are inferior. I wish women would get more educated!
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#102 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 12:34 AM
 
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Great question!

I have not read through the other responses, so forgive me if I seem a bit off beat here!

I don't know, but it really pi$$es me off! Perhaps because first time inductions result in in a higher-paid c-section 50% of the time? That's how I was in the OR for my first, long ago.That's one theory I have, anyway.

Tonight, mil stopped by dd's softball game and mentioned an acquaintance (sil's friend) who is expecting. Told me she'd been to the doc and is 1cm dialated. I asked when she's due, and it's not for over another month! I wondered aloud, couldn't help myself, "WHY is she having a vaginal exam at eight months??!!" Mil seemed bothered by my observation. Oh, well. I then offered that it sounds like doc is preparing for an early induction.

No one else seems to care, why do I?!
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#103 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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. Told me she'd been to the doc and is 1cm dialated. I asked when she's due, and it's not for over another month! I wondered aloud, couldn't help myself, "WHY is she having a vaginal exam at eight months??!!" Mil seemed bothered by my observation. Oh, well. I then offered that it sounds like doc is preparing for an early induction.
i was dilated to 1 cm for over a month w/ my first.

they did VE's at every appointment. :
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#104 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 12:27 PM
 
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"WHY is she having a vaginal exam at eight months??!!"
I was thinking the same exact thing as I read your message. I never had one before labor - guess because I've had two with midwives. They figured I'd go into labor when I did. (Well I did have one but that was to see if everything was A-OK after I bled a little) I have friends who know to what cm they are dialated, how efaced (sp?) they are, and at what station the babies head is. I always end up telling them they may have the baby in an hour and it may be another month! Why do they tell women all this stuff? The minute you tell a lot of them anything is happening they think the baby will be there in a few hours.
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#105 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 01:08 PM
 
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Klothos, that's awful! So much for evidence-based care, eh?

Here's the difference between care by (real) midwives vs. surgeons, boobyjuice.

And as you said, once a dr starts talking dialation, mom thinks it'll be any minute and starts anticipating birth way ahead of time. Sets the stage for early induction rather nicely, doesn't it? Yep, very effective.

Otoh, if mom's cervix is still closed, she's likely to begin thinking that her body isn't working properly. Then the medical stage is also set up. : I think I hear dramatic music in the background...
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#106 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 02:32 PM
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y'know... I LOVE this thread! I had NO IDEA that VEs weren't necessary! My OB started doing them when I started having my weekly visits at 32 weeks. uke I hated it, but I had no idea that she didn't have to do it.

And let me tell you, they caused me a ton of stress... At one point she incorrectly told me DD was breech and I had been so sure that she was not from the sweet hiccups I felt. She ended up being wrong, as the next day my blood pressure spiked dangerously high and I had to go in for a NST b/c I was diagnosed with PIH and we saw DD head down on the U/S. But talk about misery and worry for a night.

Wow, what an empowered and knowledgable mama I will be next time around! (Not that we're going the OB route again, tho!)
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#107 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 08:37 PM
 
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I think it's terible :
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#108 of 110 Old 06-30-2004, 11:57 PM
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Speaking of PIH, on another board, this woman at 38 weeks is being induced this week because of it. Her BP is 130/88. Gez.. mine was 145/90 and my OB didn't induce me and I was starting to dilate and it wouldn't have taken much to get me to go a few days early. (DS was born 39W2d. This was at 38W6d he took my bp) I had an elephant leg, swelling in my arms, starting to swell in my face. I should have been induced. The stress of the last weeks of pregnancy were taking a toll on my health and being in constant "false labour" wasn't helping at all!

Nope. he blamed it on the heat. Sure the summer heat aggravated it, but so did an OB who was arrogant, mysogynistic, and refused to listen to the complaints of his patient nor believed when she was due! He pushed my due date into September, 2 days before my current due date and refused to believe my charting OR that I took clomid. DS was born before the original 6w US EDD, nevermind my Ovulation EDD (the same day!).

Stupid ignorant ass.

Worse yet - he changed the criteria that I had to match (and never did) to come in. I almost had an unassisted at home! Two hours and 15 minutes from the time we left for the hospital, 1 hr and 43 minutes after we arrived, I had DS. And I was supposed to get at least 1 full dose of GBS antibiotics 4hrs or more before the birth.

If my son had spent any time in the Nicu for the post partum fever he got the ob would have been sued. So he's damn lucky for that. If he had induced me 2 days earlier, he could have gotten the antibiotics in me, gotten my son born with a full proper dose and I wouldn't have had a post partum fever either.

So on one hand, obs are erring on the side of caution and on the other, they are recklessly endangering lives.

No wonder I hate them so frelling much!
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#109 of 110 Old 07-06-2004, 04:58 PM
 
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this is one of my #1 aggravations.
patients come in all the time asking to be induced for the illness SOBP (sick of being pregnant).
and unfortunately the practice i am in is very intervention oriented.
having struggled so long to get pg (mc, ivf twice and then delivered at 32 weeks with classical cs) and having recently had another mc i cannot imagine wanting to end a pg prematurely. what i would have given to keep my baby in me (esp since i may never have another pg) and feel her move inside me- it is such a precious thing. i try to be empathic with my patients but it is so hard for me to be compassionate about being tired of being pregnant.
my experience is once you start one intervention you are on what my dh and i call the "downward spiral of interventions".
okay now i am all depressed because i miss being pregnant and only got to experience it for such a short time. oh well just wanted to throw in the perspective from my view.FWIW i don't induce people willy nilly but i feel forced to go along with the rest of my practice sometimes esp if i am not that pt's regular ob so as not to stir up trouble and i can't afford to get fired or let go.
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#110 of 110 Old 07-06-2004, 06:04 PM
 
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(Hi Anglea! Good to see someone else from my area on-line!)

One of my friends is going to be induced on Thursday at 6:30 am. - her doctor suggested it since the doctor will be on-call that day. She will be less than 40 weeks and has been having no problems. I just don't get it! I've tried to keep my comments very light, but I can't imagine risking further interventions or complications without some reason other than your doctor being on-call.

Update: She had her induction and everything went well, so that's good! I also learned that her doctor is in the same practice as Angela (the poster above) - small world!!!!

Tanya
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