Would you consider this "natural childbirth"? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We were sharing birth stories this morning at LLL and one mom said that she had natural childbirth with all three, but she did have shots of Stadol...

Personally, I don't consider this "natural childbirth"....do you?
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#2 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 02:13 PM
 
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I dont know what it is, but I did look it up. Aparently it is a narcotic of some sort. I get the first impression that is is susposed to be a bit milder then the others. http://www.americanpregnancy.org/lab...narcotics.html

I, personally woudnt consider that a "natural childbirth". Then again, everyone has their own view of what is natural.
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#3 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 02:39 PM
 
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Some people's definition of natural is a vaginal birth. I personally consider natural to be drug free.
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#4 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:01 PM
 
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I would defenitly consider it natural. Stadol does not make you numb. You still feel the contractions and certanly are having the baby with the pain.

I personally think to many people get hung up on the "natural" trophy..
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#5 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:04 PM
 
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i call my birth with half a dose (i'm very drug sensitive) of stadull an almost natural birth experience. Of the 2 i have had it is definately more natural than the experience that ended as a c/s. My next birth i am hoping to be completely drug free.

as for the way ppl phrase it, i have also heard ppl refer to vaginal births as "natural" and c/s as not natural, probably because they are so surgical. this may be her case or she may think that getting an epi make as difference in a vaginal birth.If you are really curious i would ask her what her definition of natural is.

On a tangent. I took a class in college and we discussed the meaning of virginty. There was a girl in the class that considered herself a virgin altho she had had 12 partners:how did she come to this conclusion? she said she was s virgin because she knew she dint love any of her past partners....Very different than what most of the class defined the word
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#6 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:06 PM
 
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no, I would not even consider that to be an un-medicated birth, which is what many people call "natural".
I know many women who think any vaginal birth is "natural" but I'd disagree with that. I'd even disagree with those who say that all un-medicated births are natural. A highly managed pushing stage, with an OB screaming "push push push" isn't natural in my book.
There are people who would say that my vbac wasn't completely natural, since I did take steps to hurry my labor along, using borage oil (I think that's what it was) and intercourse, and homeopathic blue and black cohosh. But to me, it was natural, in that there were no medical interventions or medications of any sort, and I was allowed to do whatever my body and instincts told me to do at the time, push only when I couldn't not push anymore, etc.
I suppose it's all a matter of perspective.
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#7 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:07 PM
 
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I wouldn't consider it natural either, but I wouldn't be catty enough to point it out to her.

Then again, where do you draw the line?

Would EFM have a place in natural labor? How about a doppler? Would you have ot have a lotus birth or chew off the umbillical cord with your teeth?

What about walking or having sex to initiate labor, sure they are drug free, but are they interfering with how labor 'naturally' would progress?

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#8 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:10 PM
 
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stafl, we cross posted.

Evergreen- Loving my girls Dylan dust.gifage8, Ava energy.gifage 4 and baby Georgia baby.gif (6/3/11).

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#9 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Now see, I am glad I asked because I assumed that there was a simple and definitive definition of natural childbirth. I had always assumed that it meant "unmedicated" but apparently there is a spectrum of beliefs.

I would have never pointed it out in a catty way. I apologize if I came off that way.

ETA that I don't get the trophy thing. Personally, my desire to have unmedicated, intervention-free births in the future is certainly not for a "trophy" but because I don't want to feel like a "patient" who is "sick" and needs "treatment".
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#10 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 03:30 PM
 
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Having had Stadol during DD's birth - I certainly didn't think it was natural at all. The nurse offered it to me after a few hours of pitocin augmented labor "to take the edge off." She said it would only make me a little spacey. Hah! To this day, my labor is a murky nightmarish memory. I was totally in another world between contractions. My memories are of painful contractions with rests in between where I was hallucinating. Even after dd was born, I'm fuzzy on the details on what was happening since there was still some of the drug in my system.

With dc #2 due in November, I'm more scared of labor this time than I was before dd's birth

So - my .02 is that it is NOT natural.
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#11 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 04:45 PM
 
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I just think we need to stop judging so much and trying to fit people into boxes. If she thought she had a natural birth, then let her be happy with thinking that.

I had full epidurals with both kids, but with Nitara's birth everything else was natural. Do I consider it a natural birth? No, but I did refuse any other interventions (pitocin, episiotomy, early cord cutting) so I feel good about that, and I'm not letting anyone tell me I had less of a birth because I chose to have an epidural for very personal reasons.

I think if a woman can get through a birth and feel good about it and not feel that the medical staff took advantage of her or she was forced into things she regrets, it's a good birth! (Natural or not)

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#12 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I wasn't judging. I was only seeking clarification on the definition. I really didn't think it was such a loaded question. I always *thought* that natural meant non-medicated. I didn't say or think she is less of a woman or that her experience was any less, etc. I guess I am stupid because I didn't know the *right* answer. Sometimes, its really hard to convey that kind of thing online.
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#13 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 07:39 PM
 
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Maybe we need a term for a non-interventionist, non-mainstream birth that nevertheless includes some use of pharmaceutical pain relief. If I would have had my head on straight when my contractions began, I would have AT LEAST taken some tylenol before we went to the birth center. Who knows, it might have helped. I ended up requesting a single shot of fentanyl, which got me through the worst of the contractions. DS wasn't born until many hours later but I didn't find pushing or crowning painful at all, even though fentanyl supposedly is short-acting (30 minutes) and should have worn off by then.
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#14 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 07:48 PM
 
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I think many people use "natural" and "vaginal" interchangeably.

He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.  ~Albert Einstein
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#15 of 50 Old 09-28-2004, 09:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunchbox
I would have never pointed it out in a catty way. I apologize if I came off that way.

You didn't come off that way, but I can see how by my post you might think I thought you did! Got that?!!?!?! :LOL

We do lose a lot in translation over the internet!

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#16 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 01:15 AM
 
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No, I say not natural. Some women base their designation of "natural" on whether they had an epidural or not, as the narcotics don't relieve pain like the epidural does.
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#17 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 11:26 AM
 
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I've always used natural to mean drug free, but I know some people use it to mean vaginal birth or just not having an epi. Technically, natural should probably mean completely non interventive so the fact that I had a moniter and a hep lock would mean my birth wasn't completely natural.
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#18 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 12:35 PM
 
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If someone asks me if I had a natural childbirth I say 'yes' because I assume they mean drug-free. I would say 'yes' even if I had taken castor oil or cohash or used arnica gel or hypnosis or accupuncture.

However, if I were critiquing my own childbirth and had done any of the above, I would have to say that it wasn't natural. That is not bad. More power to accupuncture moms!!!!! I might look into it next time!

I have noticed what I answer to others is much different than how I would answer to other birth junkies!

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#19 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 12:44 PM
 
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I guess I would just let her use it and agree that we mean different things by the term…not that I would ever debate over it for a millisecond. That said, I much prefer the term ‘unmedicated’ as I feel all births are natural…but that’s a picky thing of mine.

I actually say that I had a ‘natural’ birth in casual conversations although I'm sure some of you would disagree with me. I was given a local shot (I had an unplanned transfer and actually have no idea what it was that they gave me) when DC was crowning (and for the stitches) and I took some pain killers after.

To me, I labored drug free.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#20 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 12:46 PM
 
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Oh, and I had the RH neg drug also…not to mention a blood transfusion ~ fun!

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#21 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 01:17 PM
 
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Everyone's definition of natural varies.

By my definition- drug free- hers wouldn't have been a natural birth.
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#22 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 09:11 PM
 
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I don't consider "natural" to include things a mother could do for herself if she were having an unassisted pregnancy and birth. And I consider all drugs unnatural.

A mother giving birth alone (as well as an animal) would walk during labor and experiment with different positions as she saw the need. Actually, it would be very unnatural to lie on your back in stirrups to give birth, even if you had an unmedicated vaginal delivery.

Both my births were unmedicated, but the first was a hospital birth with forceps so it's not "natural" by my definition. The second was a homebirth but there was a lot of interference, and I was briefly given some oxygen, so I don't really know if that's natural either.

I find when people ask if I had natural births they either mean vaginal or drug-free, so I just say yes.

I can say I did not have a "purebirth" with either one.
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#23 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 09:42 PM
 
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Before giving birth, I think I would have to have said that "natural" is non-medicated, and without medical interventions. Now, after a 66 hour labor where the first 62 were completely "natural" and the last 4 were a walking epi, AROM, pit and 40 minutes of pushin, I am not so sure of the definition anymore. The stork sure didn't deliver her, but I am not so certain I would have without the interventions. I do know that if I been under the care of an OB instead of a midwife, it would have been a CS and her birthday would have been 2 days earlier. All in all, I know that I did everything in my power to deliver the child without medical interventions and the decisions that I made with the advice of my midwife and after deep discussion with my dh made my birth experience perfect for me - natural or not
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#24 of 50 Old 09-29-2004, 10:06 PM
 
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I don't consider any birth in a hospital to be "natural"! It's just not biologically normal (read natural) for humans to birth in a strange environment, surrounded by machines and people she may or may not know, etc etc. (Please note---I'm not saying this to disparage anyone's unmedicated hospital birth!) It's just my POV--food for thought .

So often, I hear women say: I wanted to go natural, but after the Pitocin, the IV, the fetal monitor...and I think---the technocratic/medical model of care completely sets women up to fail.

As quite a few PPs have mentioned, I know lots of moms who interchange the terms vaginal with natural. At my chiropractor, there was a mom w/a newborn. Chiro asks her: How was your birth? Mom: It was fantastic. I had her totally natural. Got the epidural at 3 cm.

We all have our own interpretations and definitions !

There are many who believe there is no such thing as a "natural birth" seeing as how the culture in which one lives does SO much to shape how we birth. What may seem natural for one is completely foreign to another.......

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#25 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 03:56 AM
 
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I'm surprised that some of you restrict herbs and other 'natural' stuff from being a natural birth. (Not that I care about that classification that much, lol).

Honestly, I think intervention is quite natural ~ at the very least labor and delivery support from the community (elders, midwives, sisters, mothers). And, I had always thought this was supported throughout our human history.

Not arguing...just curious.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#26 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 06:10 AM
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Can we please stop using the term 'delivery'? It's birth. Birthing. Babies are born.
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#27 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 08:37 AM
 
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What don't you like about the word delivery? I love to hear why people use or don't use particular words.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
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#28 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 09:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunchbox
We were sharing birth stories this morning at LLL and one mom said that she had natural childbirth with all three, but she did have shots of Stadol...

Personally, I don't consider this "natural childbirth"....do you?
Not really. I had a shot of nubain during transition with dd and it was awful!! (dumb nurse didn't check me before administering shot) Not natural at all, a hallucingenic. (sp?) I also had an episiotomy ouch!

I consider my second birth natural, but because I had two internals and AROM I don't consider it purebirth!

NAK
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#29 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 09:34 AM
 
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Like a "midwife" once said in a sitcom... The only way its going to be an unatural birt, is if the baby comes out of the nose.

I had epi with both my kids, and i certainly did have a LOT of pain.

Mother of three little muslims!
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#30 of 50 Old 09-30-2004, 09:50 AM
 
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I like birthing because it is an active verb. To be delivered is a passive one.

By my way of seeing things this woman did not go "natural". I guess we are splitting hairs with her.
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