Cesarean Birth Support Thread -- December 2004 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-18-2004, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pinky
I just think that the word "failed" implies that somehow you it's your FAULT that you didn't VBAC...
I agree with you. However, my VBAC was failed because I woosed out before i even went into labor. I gues its not a failure then it was a "planned VBAC but chosen c/b."

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Old 12-18-2004, 08:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pinky
But the thing that made me chime in was the last two posters that used the phrase "failed VBAC." I myself have been trying not to use that phrase, since it's so demoralizing, I think. Sometimes I say "unsuccessful VBAC" for lack of a better phrase. I just think that the word "failed" implies that somehow you it's your FAULT that you didn't VBAC...something which is implied often enough in natural childbirth circles as it is. (i.e. if only I'd been at home instead of in a hospital, if only I'd really had faith in my body, etc, etc., then I would have had a vaginal birth).

I don't mean this as criticism and hope it doesn't come off that way...it's 5 a.m. and I'm up with my infant...I just find that the words we use really do matter. My dd's birth was a lot of things...joyous, disappointing, miraculous, heart-wrenching...but I will NOT describe it as a failure. I know it is a common phrase to use, but I hate it.
Funny you should mention that. After I posted I thought about that verbiage too. I also realized how demoralizing it is. You didn't come off the wrong way to me. Thanks for pointing that out. I think my use of the word failed just shows that I still have to work on some of my issues with my c/bs
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by its_our_family
I agree with you. However, my VBAC was failed because I woosed out before i even went into labor. I gues its not a failure then it was a "planned VBAC but chosen c/b."
I wanted to say something about the above. I am sure being here sometimes makes you feel as if you failed, not this thread, but the community as a whole. I remember when you made the choice to have your repeat csection. I remember before you made that decision, your plan to VBAC.
I want to say, I don't believe you failed. I think you did things the way you felt most comfortable with, and there is nothing wrong with that. Our gut, our feelings, lead us. I am not going to lie or excuse the fact that any woman considering a VBAC should have a healthy fear of it -- rather the risk is small or great, it is healthy to question and be aware of what can take place.
While in general I am a risk taker, I think at times its right to what feels good and comfortable for you. I know the impression I read from your posts, that the closer you became to your due date, your comfort level was more for a planned csection, than the unknown. That isn't failure.
I remind myself of this everyday now that I am pregnant once again -- things happen the way they are supposed to happen. Sometimes you cant see the forest for the trees. I think for me this has become as much of a spiritual journey, than an emotional or physical one.
I know some people do not believe that way, but I honestly feel, now in my life, that the good, bad, ugly and joyous all happen the way it is supposed to happen. My babies were meant to be csection babies, and this was chosen before I was even born. God or Nature or whatever could have given my a perfect body but thats not what I have, and you know, thats not all bad. I'm here, in a world of people who problem feel insulted by my sig line, but where a small few seek support from me and I freely give it. I have a beautiful child that I would have never had through adoption because I was told I would not be able to have another full term baby in this uterus again. And I am a lot more forgiving of myself and others, less judgemental -- and a lot less preachy.

IF I was with you right now IOF, I would hug you up!
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Old 12-19-2004, 02:50 AM
 
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Thanks OTF I've already pretty much decided if I was pg again that I know where I want to deliver..since I had my first c/b there. I would just find the best damn OB I could and go with it...oh and get my tubes tied :LOL

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Old 12-19-2004, 12:45 PM
 
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Hi, ladies, I hope you will not think that I am hijacking this thread--but I really need to get this off of my chest.
This is going to be a long story, so please bear with me. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALLOWING ME TO VENT THIS--I AM GOING INSANE.
My SIL (who is a totally nut job---and what I mean by that: she is mean-spirited, selfish, egocentric, and downright evil) just had a baby a couple of weeks ago. She had a hard time staying pregnant and she had a hard time getting pregnant.
In a way, and I have to be honest--this was a GOOD thing (and I have a lot of empathy for those who try and have a hard time getting pregnant). And this is why: she married my brother after knowing him for only 6 WEEKS, and he had a vasectomy (even though he was only 24 when he got it--he's a nutjob, too). He's got a teenage son.
He was engaged to this gal (my SIL's) boss, and then SIL turned her into the police for stealing money from her/their company. My bro dumped the boss and married my SIL with the same engagement ring. Kinda sick, huh?
Well, this is the third marriage for my bro and the second for SIL.
She fought with bro to get V reversed until he finally gave in and did, and then they worked for three years to get pregnant and stay pregnant.
But that time was a good thing, because they are BOTH in the mindset of instant gratification--they've been through seven NEW cars (trading the "old" one in about 2 to 6 months after purchase) in the last 18 months!
They live off of their credit cards, and would be living in a motor home if her granny hadn't died and left her her house...with NO mortgage. Well, that lasted a month--then they mortgaged it not once but twice to buy "toys" (big TVs, etc.) and cars, and jewerly, etc.
Anyway, my DH and I have been married for 15 years. I finally had my first baby at 37. That was just about the time bro married SIL. She was SO angry that I was having a baby (mind you, we waited for years before we got pregnant--I was working on my PhD and DH was in a good job, and we wanted to feel "settled" financially and emotionally, because I knew I was going to stay home). Granted, I have my own set of issues, but I try not to dump them on others--and SIL called me when she found out I was pregnant and SCREAMED obscene things at me over the phone. It was HORRIBLE.
It really ruined part of the pregnancy, because my bro would call my mom and tell her how much my SIL was "suffering" because I was pregnant (mind you, they had JUST GOTTEN MARRIED and my bro still had a V!!!)
And then my mom (who is insensitive--I've had my share of therapy thanks to her) would tell me to "downplay" my pregnancy.
Anyway, it was awful. Fast forward--my dd is born in 2002. It was a really miserable experience, emergency c-section, but I don't think it had to be.
Then, my son was born in 2003--a planned section, but still not what I wanted, but because I had cholestasis or ICP (that can cause stillborn babies after 38 weeks gestation), I knew I had no choice.
Anyway, fast forward to two weeks ago. My SIL finally has a baby. And every single time I see her ALL she talks about is HOW HAPPY SHE IS that she didn't have a c-section. "Oh I have so much energy, because I didn't have a c-section"..."It was so wonderful because I didn't have a c-section."
It's as if she HAS TO put that phrase "because I didn't have a c-section" at the end of every sentence to remind me that I didn't get it so good.
I really suffered after my dd was born. I wanted a natural birth and took Bradley classes and had a mid-wife instead of an OB (now I know better, she worked at a hospital, and I don't trust that combination at all--no offense to anyone). I almost died, literally almost bled to death in the hospital--and no one noticed until a nurse came into my room and slipped and fell in my blood on the hospital floor. I couldn't even hold my dd, I was so weak, my arms would shake days after her birth--and I couldn't even stand for weeks. It was terrible. My DH kept having to track people down to come and help us, to even change the pads underneath me, that were so covered in blood that I was shaking from being cold and wet.
It has taken me almost three years to finally start to get my life back in order--to finally start losing weight, to finally start taking care of myself, to finally start focusing on the positive, rather than the misery of the birth experience with my dd (again, the c-sec with my ds was not so bad, but not terrific). I feel disfigured and not feminine anymore--and somehow I feel like I lost a huge part of myself on that day. The day of my dd's birth was the worst day of my life--and it shouldn't have been that way.
I emailed my SIL and just made mention that I was really happy for her, but to try not to mention my c-secs because I felt uncomfortable talking about it.
NOT because I expect her to change, but because I have to stick up for myself or else I give my power away--and I don't like that feeling--I have been feeling powerless for three years--I can't take one more day of it, especially since I am now trying to make inroads to recovery.
And reliving it through her is pure misery.
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
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Old 12-19-2004, 04:59 PM
 
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re: milk coming in ... mine came in on our 2nd night in the hospital, it freaked me out because i didn't know what to expect and i hosed the poor baby's face with milk :LOL i think it came in fast because my doula latched Willow on the moment they brought me into the recovery room, so there was less than an hour delay after birth. i'll always remember the surprised look on Willow's face when she got her first taste! *weepy in a happy way*

i'm having a lot of incision pain today, actually it hurts worse about 3 inches up and to the right all the time. but the scar itself is numb for about 2" up and down. it just feels ... creepy. i've never had surgery before, not even stitches for a cut, so reading your experiences helps me understand what i'm going through!

i ended up with a kidney infection as a result of the c-birth. they had put in a catheter of course, and the spinal numbed my whole body and didn't start wearing off for 6 hours ... i was also really out of it, i think they put something to relax me in my IV, i'm not sure ... anyway, i remember feeling weird pressure in my bladder but wasn't sure, i buzzed the nurse, she said she'd come in but she never did. i came to again and buzzed again, it was the next shift (2 hours later) and it turned out that the catheter tubing was kinked by the previous nurse, it was backing up, and my bladder had been full for at least 4 hours, because i had an IV running and was getting fluids. but i didn't trust my body's feelings because i was so numb and weird-feeling, and i couldn't ask for help without zoning in and out, and i couldn't wake my husband because he'd been up for over 34 hours and was zonked. anyway, so i've had a UTI for the last 9 weeks, it started out severe but now is mild, and no antibiotic is getting rid of it. 2 weeks ago i got a backache on my right side that wouldn't go away, so i gave up calling the OB and went to see my regular doctor. she said i had a severe kidney infection and suspects it was caused by the catheter backup in the hospital. but my OB refuses to consider the possibility. so it still takes me 5 minutes to get a pee started, and it burns, and my lower back aches on the right side all the time. (i did take Cipro which did flush out the kidney infection thank goodness.) and i still have to wear pads because when i sneeze, i leak (just like when i was 8 months pregnant). i have no idea if this is a malpractice issue or just one of those things that happens around a c-birth. all i know is, it's a constant reminder of the c-birth and it bugs me no end. i'm doing Kegels like crazy, and drinking lots of cranberry juice.

anyone else have problems from the catheter?

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Old 12-19-2004, 05:43 PM
 
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When I had my first c/b when they removed the catheter tha gal said just rela this takes a tug. I relaxed and she tugged. Half a tug would have gotten it out. It hurt to pee for a month! I was bruised!

The second time around everything was fine. I told them what happened the first time and they were super careful

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Old 12-19-2004, 06:09 PM
 
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Hopesmom,

give yourself credit for being strong enough to get through the 2 c births and not choking your SIL. sounds like a toxic personality, obviously you are special and strong and able to get through it all and she is feeling left out of the spot light, you have had the power all along, and she wants some too!

mellybean, have you tried arnica for soreness? I also used tylenol for those days when incision would act up and be annoyingly sore. My OB says the larger suture that is tied off on the ends can irritate the local area, the same place I would feel a sharp pull or poke feeling for weeks and weeks afterward.
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Old 12-20-2004, 07:22 AM
 
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Hope'smom, I don't even know what to say to that. I'd have gone medieval on her butt ages ago.

mellybean-- That is, most assuredly, a malpractice issue, especially since you're still having problems as a result of it. I don't remember having a Foley cath at all with my c-section-- I think that I only had it in for the surgery and it was removed immediately afterwards... at most, I had it in for two hours but I really don't think it was that long, I think I just had it while I was in recovery (one hour) or maybe not even then. I do remember getting up to use the bathroom the next day, though, so it couldn't have been that long. I should ask Mike if he remembers...

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Old 12-22-2004, 12:24 AM
 
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Hello
Hope'sMom.. sending you hugs. Surround yourself with those who support you and who hold similar thoughts and experiences... that is my suggestion. You don' t need all that negative engery
Meli: ouch... I had a catheter for 4 days after my second c/s because the OB cut my bladder during surgery.. I was supposed to have it in for 5 days.. but it slipped on day 4 and was causing much pain.. so it was removed. I am doing fine now though... I was on antibiotics for a week.. which led to thrush.. but, so far, I can pee ok..

Hi to everyone else..

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Old 12-23-2004, 07:42 AM
 
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i think they left the catheter in longer because i was having so many problems from the spinal, not just numbness but i could barely move my legs. i remember them saying my goal was to walk to the bathroom myself no later than 10am (the surgery was at midnight) so the catheter would be gone before then, i was able to walk by 8am. it's blurry but i think the kinked-tube problem happened from 3-7am.

i'm having a long-term problem ... my husband and i can't DTD, because to get there, you gotta brush past the urethra, and OW OW OW! i know it's only been 9 weeks but shouldn't it be better by now?

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Old 12-24-2004, 02:12 AM
 
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Mine hurt for a good 4 months. It never interfered with sex though, just peeing.

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Old 12-24-2004, 03:25 AM
 
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After both c/b's it burned to pee for a couple of days after the cath was out, plus I got UTI's both times. Oh and yeast infections from the antibiotics too.
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Old 12-24-2004, 03:44 AM
 
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Hi everyone. I'm also a c/s mama. I always sit and wish how I could go back in time and change things some how, but it was an emergency c/s so I'm sure nothing I could have done would have changed things. It was a horrible experience and both of us almost died. The weeks recovering were just as bad. With future children I'm going to try my best for Vbacs.
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Old 12-24-2004, 02:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its_our_family
Mine hurt for a good 4 months. It never interfered with sex though, just peeing.
: No way! I had some minor stinging the very first time I urinated and nothing at all after that. I can't imagine it hurting that long! Did they not entirely deflate the balloon before they removed it or something?

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Old 12-27-2004, 04:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by eilonwy
: No way! I had some minor stinging the very first time I urinated and nothing at all after that. I can't imagine it hurting that long! Did they not entirely deflate the balloon before they removed it or something?
Well, she was working on it and said that I would have to relax because she would need to "tug" a bit. They require some effort but mainly they slip right out. All I know is I relaxed and it literally made a smacking noise when it came out. Talk about being bruised!!

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Old 12-27-2004, 09:06 AM
 
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hmm now i'm thinking the pain isn't from the catheter itself, but the fact that it backed up not once but twice. i've had a constant UTI for 10 weeks now, nothing is working for it, so maybe it's not a UTI. bleah! i've had interstitial cystitis for years, i'm thinking it's mutated into something worse, but like hell i'm going to a urologist to get it checked.

we drove 3 hours to see family for xmas, and the seat belt made my whole belly sore. my scar was pretty red when we got there. better than not wearing one, though. but i hate it when there's a constant reminder of the surgery ... Willow was wanting to "stand" on my belly and i had to move her, it hurt physically but also i wanted to go cry in the bathroom.

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Old 12-27-2004, 12:06 PM
 
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meli-- It can get agrivating. With ds1 it literally took 6 or 7 months to gain any stamina back. I labored hard with him and then had surgery, basically going through childbirth 2 times. It isn't easy at all.

You are only 2 months out. It takes a while to heal inside and out. Bryce is 11 months and I'm still losing swelling. I still don't have any feeling. I never had that issue with Tracy.

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Old 12-27-2004, 03:58 PM
 
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I'm also feeling frustrated with my slow recovery. I don't remember it being like this with my first. I have a sore spot/stitch kind of feeling in my lower abdomen that is always sore if I exert myself at all. I went for a walk with my SIL this a.m. and I'm hobbling around! Ack!

I think partly I may be recovering slower b/c I am getting sooooo little sleep.......
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Old 12-27-2004, 05:59 PM
 
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I'm so sorry to those of you who are having a hard recovery. I did have a long, hard recovery from my vaginal delivery, but my daughter (c/s) is 6 months old now and I really feel better than ever, except for the weight I've been gaining. I really hate being fat .

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Old 12-27-2004, 06:21 PM
 
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I think this is the place for me! I will intro myself and keep it brief as I can so that I can come back and read everything later.

5 years ago I was pregnant with DD#1. Planned homebirth until I was 41 1/2 weeks. Had biophysical profile to make sure baby was o.k. to carry longer, found out she was breech. Lost plug that night at home and called midwife ASAP to let her know about the breech presentation. Went to hospital next day, met doctor, had ultrasounds to try to determine what kind of breech she was, they couldn't tell. (If she had been frank breech I would have requested a trial of labor because I know my mother gave birth to me this way). Midwife told me recent studies had shown that breech babies do better when delivered by c-section. I balled my eyes out and then we went home to tell DH's family and prepare for my hospital stay. 4:21 P.M. DD#1 arrived in the world frank breech via c-section. No big deal physically, (I am used to surgeries), but psychologically I suffered for several years, had trouble breastfeeding at first, had trouble bonding with this strange child that my brain did not recognize as mine, and most of all I had trouble (and still do) with the fact that I was not there when she met her family for the first time. The hospital stay was also horrendous, nurses were nasty, lactation consultant was incompetent, roomates were noisy and my DD still has a band of dots around her ankle where some nurse got fed up and put her hospital i.d. bracelet on too tight. She just turned 4 1/2 and has been weaned for only 6 months.

DD#2 (and last): Started TTC at 18 months, took another 18 TC. Brutal pregnancy. Planned for a VBAC possibly at home if my instincts told me I was safe there. Found out at 32 weeks that I had GD and had to be transfered to the care of an O.B. (Prick). Very first visit he told me I would have to deliver at 38 weeks or there would be no baby, no further explanation. He scheduled my c-section and sent me home. I was livid! Went home and researched everything I could about GD, went into battle. With several NST's, and a lot of flat out bitchiness, I convinced him to re-schedule for 39 weeks and to attempt an induction by breaking my water. Took herbs, raspberry leaf tea, caullophyllum, evening primrose oil, had midwife strip my membranes twice, walked, walked, walked, had sex every night. Cervix was favorable, 50 % effaced and malleable, but closed. Went in and had my water broke, meconium in the fluid. Labored for several hours and never dilated any farther than what the balloon catheter had done. Felt that my instincts were telling me it was time to give up and get my baby out before she went into distress. She was born at 12:23 A.M. and had some meconium in her throat, but not her lungs, just in time.

I have tried to talk to people about how much grief I felt that I would never know what it is like to give birth and I keep getting the same reply "a c-section is giving birth too" I can not bring myself to accept this. My body failed me twice. I have accepted the fact that I will never give birth to a baby though, reinforced by my husband's vasectomy in August. I have comforted myself this time by drawing the conclusion that my childhood car accident has caused a distortion in my pelvis that keeps my babies from coming out the way they should. I have reasons to believe that this is true and even if it is not, it is at least plausible and brings me comfort that I did not fail my babies.

Breastfeeding has also helped me regain some of what was lost, my efforts did not bring them into this world, but they sustained them and comforted them for 4 1/2 years so far.

One of the most powerful things I did this time around is to have a blanket for my baby to be wrapped in after birth that smelled like me from wearing it and sleeping with it so that she would recognize my scent after she had to be away from me and would bond with me instead of the hospital smells and nurses. I also fought to be allowed (snarl in disgust) to breastfeed my baby while I was in recovery twice. I began wearing her in a sling as soon as I was able to get out of bed and I slept with her in the hospital in my bed (much to the distress of many nurses). This story could just go on and on, so I will call it quits here. Thank you for listening.

I went to another site to try to talk about this and was brutally attacked for my opinions. I hope I am safer here.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:12 PM
 
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Since we're talking about scars... mine still bugs me. It gets itchy. It gets irritated if I wear bikini underwear, and I hate granny underpants. Parts of it are smooth and flat but it's mostly red and raised.

One of the ways I comfort DS back to sleep is by lying on my back with DS face down on my chest while I pat his back. If he's being restless and having trouble getting to sleep he kicks, and his feet are right at my scar and it hurts and makes me resentful again.

I love my baby. I've mostly accepted my c-section. But I hate my scar. Grrr.
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Old 12-28-2004, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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For you more recent gals with scar issues, I have to say it is going to take time. It takes a lot of time for all of it to heal. As nerves reginerate and things heal, its going itch, burn, feel tugging, etc throughout. You may also get adhesions. In took a good year for my first one, and about 6 months for the second. However I still would have these shooting or twingling sensations well after that.

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Old 12-28-2004, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Really unsure about posting this here, but I feel its safe. I hope so at least. I hope maybe a lurker may even answer my question.

I am going to schedule my csection for two days before my due date. I have never made it that far before. Both my previous sections were done around 38 weeks. My babies weighed 7lbs and 7lbs12oz. My uterus is deformed just for a reminder. I have never dilated, water has never broken and my babies do not drop.

Okay, so I am a bit concerned about pushing the envelope to 40 weeks. I would be lying if I didn't think about how far I can stretch my uterus. My son was in a far better position for growth, where as my daughter wasn't (I carried her in the right horn) I also don't want to go into labor first, but I know if I wait until 40 weeks with a third pregnancy it is a possibility.

Now this is what I want to know! If I go into labor, can I just labor awhile or will they just want to section me as soon as I get there? I think if my water hasn't broken I would rather just labor, especially if my doctor isnt on call then (say if this happened at night). I don't want to be having a csection at night or midnight or 4 am unless its urgent. I just do not want to feel rushed, I would like things to be very methodical and planned out.

For some reason this is really bothering me! I think about it alot, too much. I just had such a great experience the last time and I don't want any surprises!
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Old 12-28-2004, 08:08 PM
 
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You could labor at home till you felt more comfortable with going in.

You could go into labor and call the hospital and say Hey, is such and such on call?

Or, you might not go into labor at all

Single Mom to 2 amazing little men. T(7) and B(5)
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Old 12-29-2004, 08:38 AM
 
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Kim, thanks for your scar advice, i keep thinking the pain should stop after the 12 weeks they say it takes to recover from a c-birth, but i've been hearing more and more about how it can last a year. it helps me to know it's normal. hmm, i guess that 12-week thing is an average, just like the way OBs expect us to deliver in X number of hours based on averages?

i love having Willow lay on me for her tummy time, but she's kicking really strongly now and ow ow OW! it is a sad reminder. i chatter with her a lot, i told her that's where she came out, made me smile a little. then i folded up a blanket and put that over my scar the next time. still a little sore after some big kicks, but it kind of reminded me of the way i'd get sore when she was trying to kick her way out of me

RubyPearl ... welcome! the "it's giving birth too" concept doesn't comfort me, either. i really wanted to give birth vaginally, so i lost something i really wanted. there's no way to comfort that other than time, and consciously grieving (i journal, and i might do a painting about my feelings). i love your idea about the blanket that smells like you!!

treehugger.gif Willow (6) says: "Mother Earth is the mother of all mothers"

angel1.gif Phoenix (6/2011) ♥      print-n-color mandalas >photosmile3.gif

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Old 12-29-2004, 11:52 AM
 
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Morning all
Kim.. I would say that you could labor at home as long as you felt comfortable doing so. Any labor is good for the baby?? Not sure.. maybe it depends on why you are having a c/s.. IMHO, in some cases it might not be good to labor at all. Have you spoken with your DR about it?
I bet you are excited to meet your new baby Congratulations. Wishing you an easy surgery and speedy recovery!

I came across this article.. it was good
http://slate.com/Default.aspx?id=2111499&
Talks about the VBAC lash..

Chantal
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Old 12-29-2004, 12:55 PM
 
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I really debated whether to schedule my c/s or just wait until I went into labor. I did a bunch of research to determine if the increased chance of infection for laboring mothers was correlated to labor or to the emergency nature of c/s in laboring mothers. From what I could tell, it seems like any amount of labor increases your chance of infection. But maybe not very much.

I scheduled my c/s for 1 day after my due date - but this was my first baby and I hadn't dropped or shown any signs of going into labor.
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Old 12-30-2004, 12:59 AM
 
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RubyPearl ... You will not be lashed out at for your opinions and feelings here. We are here to comfort and provide support, advice, a virtual shoulder to cry on, etc. All (or most of us) have had some of the same feelings you've had and we are all trying to heal physically and emotionally from our c/s.

About the scar issues ... I'm just now not having itching every day -- only once in awhile -- and I'm 13.5 mos. pp. It takes a long time. And my scar is still very visible although not red and terribly raised. It is whitening/greying with time. My mom's scar is hardly noticeable now (her stretch marks are mostly silvery too). Granted, she's had 30+ years of recovery ... LOL.

I'm actually due for a well woman (and to meet my potential future mw) but just can't get myself to make the call. I'm having serious anxiety about going. I think it's b/c I'm afraid the mw will tell me, for one reason or another, that I'm a terrible VBAC candidate b/c I only have single-layer sutures . I know I have to go eventually, but ...

Anyway ... just thought I'd pop in and say hello.
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Old 12-30-2004, 01:13 AM
 
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To on the fence:
Experiencing labour with my second child made all the difference in the world to me, even though it still ended in a c-section. I feel very strongly that this is a benefit to both mother and baby because of the hormones involved, but I would talk it over with your doctor first because I don't know enough about your particular situation to advise you as to what risk is involved.

Thank you melly bean and Henry's mamma for your welcoming support. I have been waiting for almost five years for someone who will hear me.
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