Obstetrics/Gynecology and Sublimation - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 87 Old 04-09-2005, 08:36 PM
 
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Yeah, but a period on birth control is not actually a period. The only reason the inventors of birth control had the placebo week to allow for bleeding is because they thought women would be too stupid to understand the concept that not having a period does not necessarily mean one is pregnant.

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#62 of 87 Old 04-09-2005, 10:12 PM
 
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If any woman would read the true story behind the development of the birth control pill, no thinking woman would take it...

...during the very first trial, the first group of women to test the birth control pill were poor Puerto Rican women. About a third* of them died in this first study of symptoms that suggested thromboembolism, however no one bothered to follow up and find out WHY these women died. All that mattered was the fact that they were not pregnant, although I do not know if they checked for that either.

When I have told this fact to young women, they say, "Well, the Pills nowadays are different - they have more progesteron, less estrogen..."

Yes, that is true, but how long were the estrogen pills around before the pharmaceuticals decided to change it? How many women died before the estrogen pills were taken off the market, and why was this not tested for before being marketed...?

Women are not guinea pigs.

*Editted to say that the number was not 1/3 of the women but three or five of the women.

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#63 of 87 Old 04-09-2005, 10:44 PM
 
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WoW, I read the first post and then a few others... Geez, I thought I was the only one absolutely turned off by medicine... guess I'm in good company.

Maybe I'll read more later, but right now I have work to do...
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#64 of 87 Old 04-09-2005, 10:46 PM
 
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aj, can you provide a source for the history please? i'm interested in knowing more.

//nak
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#65 of 87 Old 04-09-2005, 11:14 PM
 
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Maybe those pharmacists who are refusing to fill birth control pill prescriptions are doing women a favor, applejuice.
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#66 of 87 Old 04-10-2005, 08:52 AM
 
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#67 of 87 Old 04-10-2005, 10:15 AM
 
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[QUOTE=BensMom]Funny you guys should mention this. This article just ran in a local magazine. This man is proudly admitting to being a discusting, misogynistic, ego-maniac. Our birth network has already contacted the editor and will be following up in other ways, to bring this monster to task. QUOTE]

I just read that article last night and was totally appalled. His "stories" have gotten worse over the years. I can't believe that anyone would choose to see him after reading his garbage. And I just love his full-page ad that is always on the facing page.
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#68 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 01:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by klothos
aj, can you provide a source for the history please? i'm interested in knowing more.//nak
I am sorry, but my information in my previous post was wrong, and I will note it...

My sources are Barbara Seaman, "Dangers of Oral Contraceptives", and Dr. Robert Mendelsohn in Male-Practice. I am still looking for my book by Gena Corea.

I admit these are old references. However, the information about the slipshod research done and lack of follow up, and then the FDA approving this medication for half of the American population is very telling as to how women are viewed in this society to this day. Furthermore, reading the insert for any one of the oral contraceptives on the market today will still yield the same side-effects listed below.

The Pill was approved by the FDA in 1960. Women cheered everywhere.

Yet, in 1967, a delegation of Western journalists were granted an interview with Boris Petrovski, the Soviet Minister of Health. Asked why the Pill was not being used in Russia, Dr. Petrovski replied, "We do not want our children born with deformed hands and feet."

The journalists were confused - was Petrovski mixing the Pill up with thalidomide (which was never approved for use in the U.S.)? However, ten years later there were confirmations of a thalidomide-like syndrome in a small number of babies exposed to the hormones of the Pill in the early weeks of the pregnancy especially baby boys. Why did the Russians already know about this and the Americans did not? - Because the drug companies did not tell them, that is why, even though the information was out there.

Barbara Seaman helped to write the book,The Doctor's Case Against the Pill , by Dr. John Schrogie, the FDA's principal expert on the subject. He wanted doctors to stop giving the Pill to women over forty, to women who smoke; he was extremely worried about women having heart attacks while on the Pill.

The original study to test the Pill was done in Puerto Rico on 132 women who took the Pill for at least a year. Most of the other subjects drifted in and out of the program and were lost to follow-up. Three (Dr. Mendelsohn says five) women died during the study of symptoms that suggested a stroke, but no autopsies were performed. Based on this one sloppy study, the Pill was approved for use.

At least they were not pregnant!

Side-effects noted over the years:

embolisms, liver tumors, hemorrhage, gall bladder disease, decrease in GTF, hypertension, amenorrhea, infertility, lower lactation, fluid retention; if present, migrane, asthma, epilepsy may be aggravated; kidney dysfunction, breast tenderness, depression, rash, and a change in the change in the hormone balance of the vagina which makes the woman more vulnerable to STD's.

Every woman taking the Pill should go in every year for a check up to be sure she is not developing any health problems from it and decide whether or not to continue taking it.

However I have known women to take the Pill for several years without a break.

Doctors favorite retort to all of this is "The Pill is safer than a Pregnancy!!"

I hope this helps.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#69 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 02:08 AM
 
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thank you for the information.

do you know what the rates are for the occurrences of those possible side effects? from what i know, they are extremely low, but i'd be interested in any evidence to the contrary you might be able to provide.
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#70 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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There's another side effect that's not mentioned there. I was on the pill for several years (with annual checkups) from about 15 to about 21. During that time, my sex drive almost completely disappeared. When I went back off the pill (to conceive ds), I was shocked when I realized what it felt like to have a normal sex drive again. I'd just assumed that my "on pill" self was the way I was. I know at least one other girl who said the same thing happened to her. Of course, I never told my doctor, so it's possible this has simply slipped under the research radar.

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#71 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 02:40 PM
 
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I wonder when colostomy bags will become "fashionable" so we can avoid the inconvience of moving one's bowels...

I think that most women are mislead on the risks vs. benefits of hormonal birth control.
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#72 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 02:41 PM
 
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has anyone ever read the obgyn.net forums? the professional forums? if anyone ever wants to know what OBs really think, they should go there.

it's all fear of litigation 24/7. everything. even when challenged with evidence-based studies.

oh, and the sexism there is huge. in a recent post, one doctor said that he felt old. another doctor chimed in with "you're only as old as the woman you're feeling".

ugh.
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#73 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pamamidwife
has anyone ever read the obgyn.net forums? the professional forums? if anyone ever wants to know what OBs really think, they should go there.

it's all fear of litigation 24/7. everything. even when challenged with evidence-based studies.

oh, and the sexism there is huge. in a recent post, one doctor said that he felt old. another doctor chimed in with "you're only as old as the woman you're feeling".

ugh.
wow. That site is absolutely fascinating. It sure does give insight into how they think and their motivations for unnecessary interventions. Scary.

There's a thread there called "Those Crazy VBAC's" (from March 4). Nice. :
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#74 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pamamidwife
has anyone ever read the obgyn.net forums? the professional forums? if anyone ever wants to know what OBs really think, they should go there.

it's all fear of litigation 24/7. everything. even when challenged with evidence-based studies.

oh, and the sexism there is huge. in a recent post, one doctor said that he felt old. another doctor chimed in with "you're only as old as the woman you're feeling".

ugh.
okay... that is worse than watching a baby story!!
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#75 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 05:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pamamidwife
has anyone ever read the obgyn.net forums? the professional forums? if anyone ever wants to know what OBs really think, they should go there.

it's all fear of litigation 24/7. everything. even when challenged with evidence-based studies.

oh, and the sexism there is huge. in a recent post, one doctor said that he felt old. another doctor chimed in with "you're only as old as the woman you're feeling".

ugh.
I always thought the only reasons drs did anything was because of fear of being sued. Now I have proof

Michelle

Expecting #9.  Always busy hsing.
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#76 of 87 Old 04-11-2005, 06:54 PM
 
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...













hold on...











how about they stop seeing women as troublesome machines that constantly need fixing and instead allow us to tune into our natural rhythms and learn about ourselves WITHOUT the "necessity" of drugs and surgery? how about they recognize that the female body is perfect the way it is, without men or tools to interfere? how about we empower women through education about themselves and the way their bodies are made?

i guess that's not lucrative enough. :
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#77 of 87 Old 04-12-2005, 10:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Marsupialmuma
years ago I had a fabulous female MD her name was Karen Mcarthur..(she moved to conneticut.. anyone in conneticut who needs a female md look her up!) she was very respectful and made a huge difference.
I just looked her up and found her! I have not wanted to have my midwives place my IUD after my birth experience with them so I have been looking for someone else. Now I have a recommendation and will try and set an appt with her. Thank you!!
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#78 of 87 Old 04-12-2005, 07:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
There's another side effect that's not mentioned there. I was on the pill for several years (with annual checkups) from about 15 to about 21. During that time, my sex drive almost completely disappeared. When I went back off the pill (to conceive ds), I was shocked when I realized what it felt like to have a normal sex drive again. I'd just assumed that my "on pill" self was the way I was. I know at least one other girl who said the same thing happened to her. Of course, I never told my doctor, so it's possible this has simply slipped under the research radar.
Yeah, they never tell you about that effect. I had practically no sex drive on the pill. None. I have taken it a few times for short periods and it sucks. Some women love it. They can have it. It doesn't make me feel well at all. The Yasmin cleared up my acne after everything else failed but I had no sex drive. Just felt blah. I actually like my natural rythm of hormones during my cycles. Imagine that. I do find it funny how women try to escape from every last thing that makes them feel like a woman, their periods, hormone fluctuations, then they want to get numb for childbirth. Not my thing. I enjoy being a woman tremendously.

Oh, and I have perused the obgyn.net forums. It is enlightening.
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#79 of 87 Old 04-12-2005, 08:25 PM
 
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Yeah, they never tell you about that effect. I had practically no sex drive on the pill. None. I have taken it a few times for short periods and it sucks. Some women love it. They can have it. It doesn't make me feel well at all. The Yasmin cleared up my acne after everything else failed but I had no sex drive. Just felt blah. I actually like my natural rythm of hormones during my cycles. Imagine that. I do find it funny how women try to escape from every last thing that makes them feel like a woman, their periods, hormone fluctuations, then they want to get numb for childbirth. Not my thing. I enjoy being a woman tremendously.
Well, I could do without periods, but only because I inherited cycle-linked migraines from my mom. Although, thankfully, I don't get them anywhere near as badly as she did! Aside from that, there are times I don't like being a woman (like when I simply can't reach something or move something because I'm too short or whatever), but I find pregnancy makes up for most of that.

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#80 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 12:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pamamidwife
obstetrics is for people who want to do surgery, but yet they don't want to be "surgeons" per se - it's a highly surgical field.

I'm always amazed that people don't get that OBs are first and foremost, SURGEONS. to destroy something so you have to surgically piece it back together makes sense if you're a surgeon.

If you don't want to be cut, don't hire a surgeon.


right on.....I like to point out to folks that if you're depressed, it's appropriate to seek help from a psychologist or therapist...you don't need a neurologist!!!!!! Brain surgery if your brain needs it...a wise guide if your mind needs it. Birth rarely needs a surgeon; often can benefit from a wise guide (doula, friend, partner, mw, etc.)

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I wonder when colostomy bags will become "fashionable" so we can avoid the inconvience of moving one's bowels...
OMG....totally. Birth is like taking a dump. Privacy is a must, you know when and how to push, you were born knowing how to do it, and even if the poopies vary in size, amount, and consistancy, you're able to squeeze it out each time. AND yes, rarely, there ARE people who need the assitance of MDs in the field to help them poop. But right--does everyone need a colostomy? Like, 27% of people need that 'cause regular pooping is just barbaric, can sometimes hurt, and can stretch a body part (that was MADE to stretch!!!!)

obgyn.net is classic. It's all right there. These sOBs aren't trying to hide anything, when the last thing they should be doing is broadcasting their biases and failings loud and clear.

I thought The Pill was invented by a Catholic, and he thought that including a week of 'period' would be the key to having the Church approve of his birth control invention. I read that in The New Yorker years ago.
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#81 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 01:04 AM
 
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yes, birth IS like moving one's bowels.

and just a little aside ~ on the subject of sex drive taking a nose dive on the pill.... i'm on the pill and have not had this high of a sex drive in years. (maybe TMI.) so ~ hormones effect all women differently. (i'm also not going to deny that there is a huge pyschological component as well...)

and about the actual rates / %'s for the side effects ~ i'm not sure about any of you but i have had zero success finding any sources for these.
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#82 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 02:43 AM
 
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thank you for the information. do you know what the rates are for the occurrences of those possible side effects? from what i know, they are extremely low, but i'd be interested in any evidence to the contrary you might be able to provide.
There have been plenty of studies done over the years to show that the Pill causes all of these things and more.

What often happens is that a study will be released showing that the Pill causes or increases the chances of breast cancer, for example; then six months later, another study will be released into the media showing that the Pill does not increase a woman's chances of getting breast cancer; the study that shows that the Pill does no harm is usually financed by a pharmaceutical concern.

What you need to do is look at who/what finances each study, how the study is done and with what kind of follow-up is done. Follow the money trail $$$.

Another way to figure out things like this is to ask your older women friends and family members how many women developed breast cancer, for example, before 1960 and how many after 1960...doctors call this "anedotal evidence". I do not believe that the old lie that, "people never talked about those things in those days". I can remember everyone in the media talking about Mamie Eisenhower's hysterectomy in the 1950's.

...the breast cancer rates for the American population has mushroomed since 1960, and statisticians can factor in diet, lifestyle, environmental pollutants, stress, birthrates, breastfeeding habits all they want, but there are many women who develop breast cancer or some other complication from the Pill, and have no family history of breast cancer.

There are many studies that can be done also for each of the complications listed on the package insert for the Pill, but they are simply not done.

Some more anecdotal evidence here....

In my own family, no one in the last seventy years has had gallbladder disease. Yet among my seven younger sisters, three have had their gallbladder removed - all three of them were prescribed the Pill, and they had the problem after only one child.

When my sisters questioned the surgeon who did the gall bladder surgery and the doctor who prescribed the Pill if the Pill could have caused the gall bladder disease, all of the doctors said, "No"., and frankly I do not believe them. Where did the disease come from? We were raised as vegetarians! Why would a drug company not do a study to figure out how something like this happens? Because they do not care.

I have never been on the Pill and I have four children and, so far, have no gall bladder disease. (crossed fingers)

You could research further back, into the 1920's and 1930's when doctors were doing the research to synthesize hormones. Diethylstilbestrol was developed from this research, and even in 1938, doctors knew if they developed a hormone that can be taken by mouth, it would be very potent to survive the digestive tract, and that is just what happened with diethylstilbestrol; this artificial hormone was so potent that it crossed the placental barrier, which many doctors naively thought was a "bloody sieve" and caused congenital malformations in the second generation and now is believed to cause third generation problems; it was used as an anti-miscarriage pill from 1945 until 1971 even though there never was any solid scientific evidence that it did this. Diethylstilbestrol was also put into cattle to fatten them up for the market until 1979 so everyone has had the benefit of this hormone.

It was from this research that the Pill was developed.

I know there are many studies out there.

There was a book entitled First, Do No HaRm, about a young woman who married a medical doctor, went on the Pill, and had several major physical complications only to be told that it was all in her mind. She died of these complications, and her family sued, and wrote the book...I have the book somewhere, and it had a short run...

The truth is out there, just read and learn.

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#83 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 08:14 AM
 
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I was on the pill once in my life only because it was prescribed to rid me of an ovarian cyst. It did work, the cyst went away. I had no side effects, (lucky me). Can't say if there was any sexual side effects as I wasn't sexually active during that time. I was 19 and didn't know or care much about anything but that cyst going away and didn't question the method used. Thankfully it did work without any harmful effect (that I know of). I used the pill (ironically) right up until my wedding day (prescription amount recommended had passed). So, I guess you could say I would of had sexual side effects if there were any seeing as it was probably still in my system but didn't notice any.

I vaguely remember using it longer than originally planned (as in, after the cyst was gone I filled the rest of the prescription anyway) only because it made my cycles so much better. (I had extremely painful ones that had me in bed for at least a day). Thankfully now a little older and little wiser I have found more natural ways of making those better. Turns out alot of the cycle pain was from the cyst in the first place.

Well, gee. Didn't mean to write that much on something so simple but there's my story!

Stay at home wife to Jason for 7 years Mama to Larissa Mae 2 years old :, Gavin Clay 7 months :, and Neveah Ann April 24, 2005 to July 13, 2007 ED for my food allergic babe. :::
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#84 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 12:21 PM
 
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As a former Pill user (used it for about 3 years), I can't tell you how happy I am to be off the Pill. I went off in Dec 2002, had my dd in Sept 2003 and haven't used any hormonal methods since then. I guess I am one of those "freaky" women who likes being a woman - I really enjoy noting all of the physical/emotional/libido changes that I go through as a result of my natural cycle. I never felt right about messing with Mother Nature. I have way more sex drive than I used to but the best part is that I experience a normal range of emotions now - highs as well as lows, and I have a lot of moments of sheer contentment that I never had before. I think the Pill was suppressing my emotions and pushing them towards the negative end of the spectrum. It would take something monumental for me to ever use hormonal BC again.

I was on Depo instead of the Pill for about a year, and boy don't even get me started on how bad that stuff is. It messed with me so badly - zero sex drive, dryness (sorry TMI), irritability, depression, you name it. I was a b!$ch on wheels while I took the shot. As much as it affected me, I was scared it had also ruined my fertility, so I was quite thankful when I got pg the first cycle off the Pill.

Katherine, mama to Emma Kate (7) and Griffin (3)

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#85 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 02:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice
In my own family, no one in the last seventy years has had gallbladder disease. Yet among my seven younger sisters, three have had their gallbladder removed - all three of them were prescribed the Pill, and they had the problem after only one child.

When my sisters questioned the surgeon who did the gall bladder surgery and the doctor who prescribed the Pill if the Pill could have caused the gall bladder disease, all of the doctors said, "No"., and frankly I do not believe them.
Actually, the Pill used to cause gall bladder problems frequently, and any surgeon who has been around long enough would know that.

The lower-dose pills most women are on now are much less likely to cause gall bladder problems, but it sounds like genetics might be a factor for some women.

A friend of mine was told that her severe digestive problems attributed to her gall bladder (which was then removed) resulted from long-term Pill usage. Her surgeon said the reason none her other doctors made the connection was that they were all too young to have known about the link!

Carolyn
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#86 of 87 Old 04-13-2005, 07:12 PM
 
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hmm, this thread is very interesting. I unfortunately don't have much choice in dr's in my area. I have finally found one I like who is male- he gave me my first pap that didn;t hurt.

that is interesting about abc and the gall bladder I have 2 relatives that both had to have their gb removed both when teir 1st children where about 1- both have been on bc for an extended time 10+ years

dr's do not like to tell you the side effects of bc. I was on depo for 3 yrs, and pill for 1- I was depessed, continual infections, no sex drive, extreme weight gain- like a pp I was pretty much told that it was in my head-finally after I gave up bc my NP mentioned how awful she thought depo was- yet they didn't think it was imp to tell me while I was on it.

sorry for typing nak'ng

Happily Married to my : 11 yrs- Mama to wild-eyed monkey boy 7-04, fiery little girl 4-07, and the happy smiley baby that sleeps 11-09!
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#87 of 87 Old 04-14-2005, 03:47 PM
 
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has anyone ever read the obgyn.net forums? the professional forums? if anyone ever wants to know what OBs really think, they should go there.
Oh boy, just when I was starting to forget about those nasty forums. Ugh. I used to go there and read those and the post I remember the most was about a woman who had refused a vacuum extraction. The doctor was on there telling the story and the very end of it said "Who does she think she is?" Yeah.
PapayaVagina is offline  
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