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#1 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 10:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I went to a very mainstream baby shower yesterday afternoon and it was tough! Since I was that mainstream mama to be ( :LOL ) I have since become a doula, joined a birth network and an AP playgroup and have surrounded myself with like minded mamas. So it was a shocker to be back in the mainstream birthing mindset for an hour.

Overheard: "Does anyone know if the rooms at <baby factory hospital> are soundproofed? I would hate to be in labor and have to listen to some women doing natural childbirth next door screaming her head off." (Yeah, you have a great understanding of childbirth, eh?)

"Well when I was taking the tour, I didnt hear any screams." (Must have been because 95% of the mamas get epidurals there.)

"Oh you are in great hands at that hospital. You can trust the doctors and nurses to take care of you" (and prep you for surgery)

When new mama opened my gift which included "Pregnancy, Childbirth and the Newborn" by Penny Simkin and "The Nursing Mothers Companion" several mamas exclaimed that they had never seen those books. (Perhaps you should look beyond "WTEWYE")

And then there was the detailed discussions among the women on the amount of money and time they have spent on the nursery, replacing hardwood floors for the nursery, painting, buying all of the coordinated name brand nursery items but when it comes to preparing for childbirth and having labor support..."I'm sure my husband will do fine. And if not, the nurses will take care of me."

Anyone else?

Jenn, perpetually tired mom to DS(9): DD(4.5): DD(2) :
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#2 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 04:22 PM
 
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:LOL

My friends are all pretty mainstream...actually, I guess I am in a lot of ways, too. But, we've all tended to have our showers after baby arrives, so I've been spared any experiences like that. Showers drive me nuts, as the "big" gifts seem to be disposable diapers and cans of formula...

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Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#3 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 05:02 PM
 
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I went to my cousin's baby shower when dd was 2 weeks old (homebirth). I was quizzed in a very condescinding way about the birth, and then no one even listened to my answers. This one mama was pregnant with her 3rd baby and at first seemed like the one person there who I *might* have something in common with. Then towards the end she told us how her first 2 babies were 'late' and that she told the doc that she 'wasn't doing that again.' and made him set an induction date. At one point we went around the room and gave the mama-to-be one piece of advice each. I almost cried when the hostess recommended Baby Wise and then went on to say that HER 6 DAY OLD SON was sleeping thru the night thanks to that book/man. :Puke Poor baby.

But I'm throwing my best firend's shower in a week and I'm soooo excited! It will be much better than my cousin's.
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#4 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 07:44 PM
 
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I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them? There are worse things in the world a person can do to their child than formula feed and use disposable diapers. I am an all natural mama but the way I see it, we're all just doing the best we can with the knowledge we have.

Pardon the interruption.
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#5 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 08:08 PM
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Because, *this is MY hypothosis* We can't stand, watching people swallow a line hook line and sinker without doing research first about the pros-cons and everything in between in regards to childbirth, child feeding, child rearing.

Seriously. There are REAL risks to the epidurals. Mainstream women think Episiotomy is the norm for a vaginal birth...they think C-section is as routine as an apendectomy, and Cytotec is just a harmless little white pill that gets things going down there.

Come on. We are like those who escaped the Matrix. We took our Blue Pill, and we see the truth.
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#6 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 08:11 PM
 
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I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them? There are worse things in the world a person can do to their child than formula feed and use disposable diapers. I am an all natural mama but the way I see it, we're all just doing the best we can with the knowledge we have.
I'm not a very frequent poster, but I just wanted to point out a couple of things. First, this is a safe place to vent about frustrations with what most of the US considers "normal" parenting. And second, Babywise is quite dangerous & even if the child comes through it physically unscathed, there are long-tem emotional problems that can arise from and infancy steeped in Ezzo. SO, I think it is worthwhile to point out when & how "mainstream" America is led astray.

Also, I really didn't see this as a "crunchier-than-thou" thing (and I have seen that here before). I saw it as more of a "frustration with the mainstream" thing.
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#7 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 08:18 PM
 
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At my shower someone brought a blank book and asked all the guests to write down one piece of advice they thought a new mother would appreciate. One person, a relative of DH, wrote in large block letters...

LET IT CRY

and signed her name below.

And no, it wasn't a joke.
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#8 of 36 Old 06-26-2005, 08:19 PM
 
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I'm not going to get into details, but most of the moms I'm talking about are very far from doing "the best they can" with the knowledge they have. I've been told flat out that breastfeeding is a hassle (because hubby can't feed the baby that way), and that cloth diapering is "too much work". This was from a mom who has taken her 2-year-olds out of the house once on her own, and swears she'll never do it again, because it's "too much work". Every other time they've left the house, it's been with their dad or with their grandma. She uses diaper wipes to clean their faces, because it's "too much work" to do so much laundry if she uses a cloth - but she "can't afford" all those wipes, so they only get cleaned after a diaper change if they poop. Oh, and she only changes them when the disposables won't hold any more liquid...any guesses why? It's "too much work" to change them.

Those are all direct quotes about how much work it is. She's not doing her best - she's not even trying to. And, she was both cloth diapered and breastfed herself...her sister and SIL both cloth diapered and breastfed...there is absolutely no lack of knowledge involved.

Her best friend didn't breastfeed, either. But, she doesn't think it's too much work - she just thinks it's "weird and creepy"...although she didn't think spending $6000 on a boob job when her newborn was three months old was weird.

Some mainstream moms (and I'm one myself) are really just off their rockers.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#9 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 10:35 AM
 
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I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them? There are worse things in the world a person can do to their child than formula feed and use disposable diapers. I am an all natural mama but the way I see it, we're all just doing the best we can with the knowledge we have.

Supakitty, your post irritated me. We aren't just ranting about disposables and formula. (Although formula feeding by choice is *not* something the majority of MDC members support) Why do we care that someone let their 6 day old baby CIO? Well, for one, that mama-to-be that got that advice went home and practiced it when she had her newborn. Her 3 week old dd ended up in the hospital due to dehydration and had to be hooked up to IVs. Her soft spot was sunken as well as her eyes. Another cousin told me later that she looked half dead. All because she read that book that told her to schedule her newborn's feeding lest they 'manipulate you'.

Another example from my post:
The mom that wanted to induce (and did) just because she didn't feel like being pregnant anymore was irresponsible and selfish, plain and simple.

The choices we are discussing are not simply 'to each their own'. These moms are choosing not what's best for their babies, but what's best *for them*.

I have seen the 'crunchier than thou' threads too and this is not one of them.
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#10 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 03:36 PM
 
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I apologize that my post was irritating. I just can't say that I understand why a person goes to a mainstream baby shower and is continually surprised that mainstream moms do mainstream things. You know? Why feign horror at their predictable mainstream choices?

It's like this: I am not surprised each year when my dog doesn't do my taxes for me, I don't expect her to. I'm not surprised when mainstream mamas do mainstream things, I expect them to.

Nonetheless, I will abstain from posting further about this topic in this thread. It is not my intention to derail the thread from the original topic.
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#11 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 03:58 PM
 
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I think people who go to the mainstream showers - because their co-workers, relatives etc., are mainstream - aren't so much constantly surprised, as constantly disappointed. And, I can understand coming here to post about it...it's a good way to vent without mortallly offending your aunt or cousin.

I also think a lot of "mainstream" decisions abou child-rearing are based 100% on what the mom (or dad or both) perceives as being convenient for them. While I have nothing against convenience, I really question whether parenthood is a reasonable life decision for someone who has convenience as their biggest priority. Children don't care about "convenient" (that's probably why dd dumped the compost bucket all over the kitchen floor this morning), and I think it's difficult to make decisions in your children's best interest if "convenient" is your watchword.

Okay - have no idea if that made sense...baby-under-construction kept me awake most of the night, and I don't think I'm making a lot of sense today...

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#12 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 04:16 PM
 
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LOL my babyshower was full of friends and clients who have pets and no kids - it was great but now I know how lucky I was as they treat their animals in a much more AP way than many mainstream moms!

[Of course when she was 10 mo old one client (who actually DOES have a kid) tried to give her one of her much chewed on dog toys to chew on!]

Who stole my signature!
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#13 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 04:23 PM
 
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For what its worth and not to get too off topic on the whole "Let it Cry" fiasco. My neice was a vicitm of shaken baby syndrome. Why? Because my sis's DH didn't know that it was ok to simply put the baby down and let it cry until you resolve your anger than to shake and beat the child. I know letting a baby cry is not the most AP parenting style, but sometimes it is the better alternative than to hurting. I am sure the example given did not mean "let it cry" in such a serious way than this, but it could be valuable advice to someone to let them know its ok to simply let a baby cry if your too upset.
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#14 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 04:31 PM
 
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It's like this: I am not surprised each year when my dog doesn't do my taxes for me, I don't expect her to. I'm not surprised when mainstream mamas do mainstream things, I expect them to.

That isn't even close to being the same. A dog cannot do your taxes, no matter what information you give him, or how many hours you spend trying to teach him.

Most people, on the other hand, have overwhelming access to information about what is being done to them (while pregnant, during the birth, etc). So when people like my cousin make choices like she did, after I sent her MANY emails with links to informative sites, it gets really disheartening. And I'm not feigning horror; some of the choices I hear about make me upset/mad/sad/disappointed/etc EVERY time I hear them, yk?

But you're right, we're OT.

Carry on....
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#15 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 04:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by supakitty
I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them? There are worse things in the world a person can do to their child than formula feed and use disposable diapers. I am an all natural mama but the way I see it, we're all just doing the best we can with the knowledge we have.

Pardon the interruption.
Well, thats all fine and good- but this is a NFL disscussion board, and people discuss things here. I don't think this is a "crunchier than thou " thread at all. It is simply a bunch of women relating experiences that sadden/bother them. I don't see anything good about holding your toungue in a societty that thinks backwards in terms of what is the norm.

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#16 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 04:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by thyme
At my shower someone brought a blank book and asked all the guests to write down one piece of advice they thought a new mother would appreciate. One person, a relative of DH, wrote in large block letters...

LET IT CRY

and signed her name below.

And no, it wasn't a joke.

Thats sick
"IT"????????????????

I've never personally had an it. Juat a boy and a girl here for me


I once went to a shower where we had to wrie inside a sposieuke a peice of advice.Mine was "change me quick" lol. Because I was just starting out in cloth and since she was having a boy and I knew how much boys peed., even on themselves while being changed.lol

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#17 of 36 Old 06-27-2005, 06:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Pandora114
Come on. We are like those who escaped the Matrix. We took our Blue Pill, and we see the truth.
:LOL
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#18 of 36 Old 06-28-2005, 05:16 PM
 
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I LOVED the Matrix and blue pill analogy Pandora! I had to call my husband and tell him! :LOL
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#19 of 36 Old 06-28-2005, 05:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leilalu
"IT"????????????????
What else can you say when the sex is yet unkown... i guess he/she would hve been more appropriate, but i dont think they were intentionally callilng a baby an "it".

anyway.. i got that same advice - glad i didnt listen
Although at 4 am this morning I didnt feel so glad but did it anyway.


It's all about our choices....



Amy
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#20 of 36 Old 06-28-2005, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by supakitty
I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them? There are worse things in the world a person can do to their child than formula feed and use disposable diapers. I am an all natural mama but the way I see it, we're all just doing the best we can with the knowledge we have.

Pardon the interruption.

If we all thought like this, MDC wouldn't exist!! :LOL

I absolutely love reading threads like this, they make me feel so "not alone", every single time. I personally *am* disappointed each time I hear comments from "mainstream" folks such as those mentioned in this thread. This site is inspiring. To see so many women questioning & thinking outside of the box. It's awesome.

And to actually join the topic at hand.... at my own baby shower, a friend of mine had brought her boyfriend. At one point I was explaining my terrible frustration to my friend, over our phone being threatened to be shut off because we were so darn poor we weren't really getting by. I was sad & frustrated & fearful (& pregnant), & her boyfriend started listening in & putting his fingers in an "L" shape on his forehead to signify "Loser!". He didn't say a word, just sat there like that while I vented about my money woes. I couldn't believe it. It will forever be my most horrific baby shower incident. (I guess this doesn't really have a whole lot to do with a "mainstream" shower, oops)

North Idaho rural living  mama to: 23 yo DD, 16 yo DS, 8 yo DS, 6 yo DS, 4 yr old DS, 2 yo DD, and 1 yo DS. And someone new coming this Christmas!
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#21 of 36 Old 06-28-2005, 05:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Leilalu
Thats sick
"IT"????????????????

I've never personally had an it. Juat a boy and a girl here for mel
I call my fetus "it" everyday, and it'll stay that way until it's born from my body & I know exactly which pronoun suits it best!

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#22 of 36 Old 07-04-2005, 08:09 PM
 
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On the topic of mainstream baby showers... what if you know your friend/relative is going to throw you a babyshower and a lot of mainstream people are going to attend? Even though you don't get to plan your own shower, can is there some way to minimize on the deluge of mainstream advice?
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#23 of 36 Old 07-04-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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As far as birth choices (among others), I don't think it's a "crunchier than thou" thing, either.

For me, it's about other women not infringing upon *my* birth choices with misinformation/cultural indoctrination.

FTMP, if a woman chooses to shop Baby Gap instead of Gymboree, it's no skin off my back, and it doesn't limit my choices (certainly not any important, health-related choices).

Even if she chooses to use disposies instead of CD-- well, it doesn't do *that* much to limit me, except maybe make people look at me a little funny, and make it a teeny-tiny bit harder to find good CDs instead of disposies.

But if she gets induced for convenience at 39 weeks... because "her doctor said it was perfectly safe, so it must be so"... Well, that's just one more hashmark for the legislators to claim that birth is inherently unsafe (b/c she has a great chance of ending up w/a C-sec), one more for the women who think they need to call CPS on a homebirther, one more reason if I have to birth in a hospital that I'll have to fight my a$$ off (IN LABOR!) not to have unnecessary induction/interventions thrust on me... "'Cause everyone else is doing it!" And mindlessly, FTMP, I might add.
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#24 of 36 Old 07-05-2005, 01:07 PM
 
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I never had a baby shower, and since this is my second baby if I were to have one, I wouldn't be expecting much advice. All of my friends know I am 'out in left field' about child rearing. However, it still sadens me when people mention CIO and tell me "He isn't too old, he can start now, it only took me 3 days." Luckily, when I was pregnant with DS I didn't have a lot of friends in my area yet, the one I did have ended up with a c-section.

That said, I really wish that SOMEONE had given me better advice when I was pregnant with DS. Had ONE person told me "You should do a little research before having him circumcised." or "Let me send you a link about vaccinations, read it and do with it what you will." or "The side effects of an epidural are ____." or "The worst possible possition to be in during labor is flat on your back." it would have made my life so much easier. My pregnancy and labor were very mainstream, all tests possible, all interventions possible eventhough I had 'planned' on an unmedicated birth, baby taken away from me for 2 hours 3 times a day for 'shift change' etc. Luckily once I got home from the hospital I just followed my insticts and ventured around here a little more and realized I was AP, I just didn't know it.

I also tend to call my baby "it" but if I was going to write something in a book I would refer to "it" as the baby, or he/she. Writeing "it" in that context just sounds so cold and sad.

Now, as far as calling mainstream the 'lazy' way to do things, I have to disagree, at least with my 18 months of experience. DS sleeps with us because it is so much easier, and I got a lot more sleep. I BFed because I just never even considered formula, but it is so much easier than bottles. I quit using bottles at about 3 months because it was too much work to clean the breast pump and the 2 bottles a week. I CDed because I wouldn't have to buy sposies/wipes every week and freak out because it was 1am and we were out of diapers. I don't vax because.... ok well that one isn't easier, but it's less emotional straining, and I guess easier once the doctors realized they weren't going to change my mind. I don't have an obcessivly clean house because I would rather play with my child than mop the floors once a week.

I am just lazy and would rather have fun then spend all my time trying to make my child into a "perfect" little person.
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#25 of 36 Old 07-06-2005, 11:27 PM
 
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I went to a big to-do at the Hilton last year. Everyone had a chance to get up and say stupid things to the mom-to-be like "no matter how tempting it is to bring baby to bed, don't do it or you'll never get it back out!". It wasn't really my place to say anything as I was there as a vendor for NFB. But when I got up to the mic to lead a game, I still took the chance to remind her that "Food spoils, babies don't. Hold your little one as much as you want".
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#26 of 36 Old 07-07-2005, 12:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taedareth
On the topic of mainstream baby showers... what if you know your friend/relative is going to throw you a babyshower and a lot of mainstream people are going to attend? Even though you don't get to plan your own shower, can is there some way to minimize on the deluge of mainstream advice?
It might not be as bad as you think! My dh's VERY mainstream family threw us an early shower (as we're moving out of the country in a few weeks) and I prepared for the worst. There was very little advice verbally given at the shower. The hostess provided a little book for eveyone to write advice in, and while I was expecting to be horrified by some of the things in there, the notes people wrote ended up saying things like, "You'll get lots of advice...listen, smile, nod, and do what you feel is right," "Take naps when the baby does," "Join a playgroup," "Just love and enjoy them," "Take lots of pictures," "Don't let anyone tell you you're holding your baby too much! They need it and so do you," and my personal favorite, "Never forget that your children watch you all the time. Let them see love and respect and that's what they'll learn."

I was astonished at how respectful everyone was. I didn't get a lot of the "weird hippy stuff" from my registry, but I didn't get a bottle warmer or a diaper genie either. I think if your shower guests know what your general parenting philosophy is, there's a good chance they will try to respect that. I put a book list on my registry that included "The no-cry sleep solution" and other AP books. I think that clued people in.

Amy
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#27 of 36 Old 07-07-2005, 12:31 PM
 
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I'm astonished at how much advice seems to go on at these things. I only had a shower with ds, which was a long time ago. But, I don't remember anybody giving me any advice at all...except someone told me you can never go wrong by picking up a crying baby - think it was one of my great-aunts. And, a friend from high school with no kids gave me cloth diapers. She said she was just thrilled that she finally had someone to buy them for, as none of her other friends were using them...

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#28 of 36 Old 07-07-2005, 01:22 PM
 
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I think disappointment is a good way to describe it. I know many mothers here were raised in mainstream ways and didn't know any different (better) until after their children were born or they were pregnant at least.
I started out fairly mainstream but I didn't read a lot of baby books, so I didn't know what I was supposed to do. I did what I wanted to do and what dd seemed to need. That moved me into AP slowly.

I am always disappointed when I give someone the information, encourage them to follow their heart and their baby's needs and yet they still end up really mainstream.

Its a valid emotion because we know the impact that some mainstream practice have on the child and the parent/child relationship.

Mom of a 7 yr old, 4 yr old, and 1 yr old. Wow. How did that happen?
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#29 of 36 Old 07-07-2005, 01:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by supakitty
I hate to rain on the 'Crunchier-than-Thou' parade but really, I mean really why does it matter so much what other people are doing? As long as a person is happy and satisfied with what they're doing for their baby and their family why is it anyone else's job to judge them?
Because THEIR happiness and satisfaction is not as important as their child's. Period. Apparently, that fact is too much for our generally selfish, generally materialistic, generally narcissistic culture to wrap the two cells of its little mini-brain around.

Oh, and I feel free to judge at any and all opportunities. I consider my faculty of judgment one of the greatest of human gifts: the gift of being able to come to a reasoned conclusion based on evidence. It's what sets me apart from an amoeba, thanks, so I like it very much. I distrust the prejudice against judgment in this culture, because that is the equivalent of telling someone not to think.

Pardon the diatribe.
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#30 of 36 Old 07-07-2005, 01:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by supakitty
Why feign horror at their predictable mainstream choices?
.

Darling, I don't have to feign horror. My horror is REAL.
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