Max age limit for first child birth - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-19-2005, 05:53 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Adina, how can you possibly say that warning women that the media liying to them about their fertility, and that getting pregnant easily after 40 is rare can hurt their feelings?

And for those lucky few women who are fertile into their 40's - why would their feelings be hurt by reminding them how lucky they are? If they have compassion for others they should be prefacing every reiteration of thei age when they conceived with the warning that it's not common.

And what on earth do you mean by saying that there are other pains out there than infertility? Of course there are, but we are discussing age and fertility, and the biggest pain with regard to age is discovering you were lied to when they said it wouldn't be a problem.

Quote:
It is not helpful to tell anyone that they would need to have an egg donor after 43. Some may, some may not.
Yes, it is very helpful to warn women that if they really really want to have children, and if they want those children to be related to them, that they need to be aware of the limitations of age.

No matter how much you wish that we could overcome biology with modern medicine, we can't, and we need to be active in warning other women that the media is lying to them when they say if you look young, your eggs are young. We are doing a disservice to other women if we do anything but that.
wannabe is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-19-2005, 06:37 PM
Administrator
 
adinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 24,482
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
What I am saying, is that your absolute is no more helpful than the doctor's absolute that they can get a woman of any age pregnant.

The media hasn't lied - all I have heard in the last several years is the loud admonishment that fertility declines after 27...from everyone, doctors and media. In fact it is almost frenzied at times.

It is one thing to tell someone that they may have an easier time getting pregnant when younger, it is another to scare them into having children when they may not be ready.

Unfortunately, while I understand your point of view - it sounds like you were dealt with poorly - I don't think that fearmongering is a good idea on either side of the fence. I take less issue with what you are trying to say, more with HOW you are saying it. While I take fertility problems VERY seriously, I also don't think that ANYTHING is accomplished by telling a woman harsh things about her fertility. She hears that kind of crap all the time, from every doctor she sees, from the media who squawks about "older" moms all the time, from every news caster who carries the newsflash that holy crap! fertility in women is a finite thing??!!! We all know. We have all heard it. We are all clear that once we pass 3 decades, things start to change.

HOWEVER, fertility is a very very very personal issue. And while easy pregnancy after 40 is LESS LIKELY (not rare, but statistically less likely) it doesn't mean it is impossible for every one. Nor does it mean that EVERY woman over 43 will not be able to have a child that is genetically their own. And frankly, it does a disservice to them to tell them that. Causing a woman to be scared and undergo unneccessary medical treatments because someone told her she would need an egg donor after 43 is NOT helpful, nor is it "empowering" anyone but the doctors.

There are real challenges that come with trying to get pregnant at ANY age. I am sorry for whatever trials you have gone through regarding your fertility, I understand how hard it is, and wish you nothing but the best.

winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

adinal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:19 PM
 
applejuice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: hunting the wild aebelskiever
Posts: 18,404
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdinaL
It is one thing to tell someone that they may have an easier time getting pregnant when younger, it is another to scare them into having children when they may not be ready.
ITA

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
applejuice is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 09:38 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Adine, I'm glad that you have missed the prevailing media message about age - I too did the research, and knew that I should begin ttc before 38, but I have many friends who didn't, who beleived it when they read Geena saying that pilates got her pregnant. And they are shocked and devastated when they find out they were lied to, when they bought into the lie that they could use fertility treatments to get pregnant whenever they wanted.

Quote:
Causing a woman to be scared and undergo unneccessary medical treatments because someone told her she would need an egg donor after 43 is NOT helpful, nor is it "empowering" anyone but the doctors.
If you can convince a doctor to let you undergo a 'medical treatment' after 43 I bet I know which clinic you're at.

People don't undergo IVF if they think they might have a problem, they do IVF when they HAVE a problem. And if they're 43, the IVF probably won't work. If they're 45 it definitely won't work. Those are the facts. Those same women for whom IVF fails at 45 would probably have been fine if they had tried at 37, or even after a few tries at 40.

Quote:
There are real challenges that come with trying to get pregnant at ANY age.
Yes, but in general the younger woman ALWAYS has a better chance.
wannabe is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 10:18 PM
 
Jane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kenmore, Washington
Posts: 6,956
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it's important to remember that nothing changes dramatically on your birthday. You are just one day older on the slow slope downhill from birth to death. No 1 year olds are fertile, no 80 year olds are fertile, but most 20 year olds are fertile. We are all on the continuum somewhere - prefertile, fertile, postfertile, and all of us hope that we're fertile when we want to conceive a child.

I think these questions are more important: What is your family like - what is your personal history. If all the women in your family go through menopause at 32, it's probably more important for you to have your babies sooner. Are you in poor health? Do you have endometriosis? A history of PID? Fibroids? Ovarian Cysts? Have you ever been pregnant? Do you have a partner now? If not, do you want a partner? Do you expect to find one? How would you feel to be childless? Is that an acceptible result to you? How would you feel to have a baby when you "weren't ready"?

Homebirth Midwife biggrinbounce.gif

After 4 m/c, our stillheart.gif is here!

Jane is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 11:18 PM
Administrator
 
adinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 24,482
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
I wouldn't say in general a younger woman ALWAYS has a better chance, my friend. I am living proof of that. As Apricot just said, it is a continuum. And we are all at different places at different times. Just like we don't all start menstruating on the day of our 13th birthday. And we don't all go through menopause at 50 on the dot.

And given that I am in the middle of my IVF cycle...I know why women go do IVF. I also know that fear is a powerful thing, and that doctors often push women into IVF when they are not entirely ready for such a medical endeavor, but fearful they might not have a child.

What is important is that a woman knows her body and what it can do and when. Not some arbitrary number. If women choose not to educate themselves, they aren't going to listen to layman's advice anyway. And the louder someone shouts at them the less they will hear.

Apricot - your questions are dead on!

winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

adinal is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 11:53 PM
 
Viola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 22,549
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
One thing I will mention - I did find carrying a baby much easier at 24. I hardly knew I was pregnant, as I had no nausea (except once during a blood test), no pain in hips or back (I remember ligament pain in my groin twice), no trouble sleeping...nothing at all.
Both my pregnancies were like this, and I was pregnant at 31/32 and 36. And I'm morbidly obese to boot. I'm done having kids, though. I have a feeling it just gets harder and harder with each pregnancy. My sister had all her children in her teens/20s, but didn't get varicose veins until her third pregnancy and they just got progressively worse with 4, 5 and 6.
Viola is offline  
Old 07-19-2005, 11:56 PM
 
Viola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 22,549
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
The woman who conceives with her own eggs after 43 is the lucky exception to the rule.
I really think you are blowing this out of proportion. How many women at 43 and up are having babies with donor eggs vs. women who are having them with their own eggs? And how many of these women would have had problems even in their 20s or 30? I'm not trying to be confrontational, I'm just honestly unaware of a statistic that says the majority of mothers in their 40s have to use donor eggs to have a baby.
Viola is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 12:55 AM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
I wouldn't say in general a younger woman ALWAYS has a better chance
Pick a diagnosis, any diagnosis, and I'll guarantee you that egg for egg the younger woman has the better chance. Sure, a 20 year old can turn up a poor responder, but compare a 20 year old poor responder with three eggs and a 40 year old poor responder with three eggs and I'll put my money on the 20 year old for a take home baby.

the national live birth per transfer pg rate in under 35 is 43%, and 6.6% for over 42. How can you argue with that? Even for DOR, the under 35s have 35.7% and the 42+ have 7.1%. And that's per TRANSFER - it doesn't include all the cancellations, or cycles that never made it to transfer.

Quote:
How many women at 43 and up are having babies with donor eggs vs. women who are having them with their own eggs?
Well, if you assume that a 43+ year old will try two cycles with her own eggs before moving to DE, and that none of them are cancelled, and they all make transfer, then at least 85% could move to DE, assuming they are willing.

Quote:
What is important is that a woman knows her body and what it can do and when.
I am glad you have this ability, but most of us are totally unaware that we face fertility issues.
wannabe is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 01:32 AM
Administrator
 
adinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 24,482
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Look - I give. You and I disagree. You think it is fine to say these things to people who are already told so much about how their bodies betray them at every turn, be it with birth, health, what EVER...and I think that perhaps a more gentle approach is better. I also think that a woman's BEST tool is to know her body - to do HER OWN research and not always to trust what some doctor or what statistics say. That is part of what this site is about. Learning and trusting yourself about yourself.

I don't find being told that I am going to fail at something empowering, nor helpful. I find the hows and whys helpful. I find KNOWING to be helpful. Just spitting out a statistic and saying "yep, you are gonna be in this group" doesn't DO anything. It doesn't help anyone understand. All it does is generate fear that yes, once again the almighty doctor is correct, and you are broken, inadequate, wrong.

If that is the way you want to face it, that is your business. I DO NOT have to agree with you.

For the record...I have PCOS - I am doing IVF - I am 30 years old and have been trying for 3 years to get pregnant. Unfortunately - my eggs could be crap, all immature and unable to fertilize. We don't know yet. A 43 year old who produces 3 eggs and doesn't have PCOS - may VERY WELL have better eggs than me. Generalizations help no one. Ever.

winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

adinal is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 01:55 AM
 
Storm Bride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 25,597
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola
Both my pregnancies were like this, and I was pregnant at 31/32 and 36. And I'm morbidly obese to boot. I'm done having kids, though. I have a feeling it just gets harder and harder with each pregnancy.
That could certainly be it. I know this one has been the hardest (although still awfully easy, when I look at what a lot of women I know have been through). On the other hand, I've also been dealing with nightmares and depression related to the probability of a third c-section, and I didn't have that feeling with the first two, as both those sections were unexpected. Maybe this is more about my psychological state than about being 37.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

Storm Bride is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 02:52 PM
 
HaveWool~Will Felt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hugs Adina.
HaveWool~Will Felt is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:28 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, Adina, and I beleive that education is key - that when you walk into the RE's office is too late to discover they won't treat a 43 year old.

If you know, you can make a decision.

I'm not surprised you find it hard to beleive that you can be refused treatment - PCOS is pretty easy to treat - they just need to tweak the stims for maturity.
wannabe is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 10:46 PM
 
katenyc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: How did I get HERE?
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm Bride
but when it comes to planning it...all bets are off. Fertility problems are more common than many people realize. And, I don't think anybody ever thinks it will happen to them, until it does.
:

I went off bcp on my 26th birthday and gave birth when I was 29. Dh is a year older than I am. No health problems, nothing diagnosible...just took 30 cycles (including 3 failures w/"medical help") to get pg. We conceived by "accident" a few months before a planned IVF.

I have a friend who is 32 who definitely wants a child. I keep telling her not to wait too long (well, it's more brainwaves, because it isn't my business) because you just never know.

Infertility was a gift, though, in a way, because dh and I used to be such obsessive planners about what our family was going to look like (such and such # of kids, spaced so and so apart)--now I don't even think about it anymore. I just love my baby in the here and now. Someday I'd like her to be a big sister, but it's really not in my control!
katenyc is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:00 PM
Administrator
 
adinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 24,482
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
I'm not surprised you find it hard to beleive that you can be refused treatment - PCOS is pretty easy to treat - they just need to tweak the stims for maturity.
I have NEVER said that...NOT ONCE. I know you can be refused treatment. Very clear on that. I don't find it hard to believe at all.

As for PCOS being easy to treat...thank you so much for minimizing my journey. It is nice to know that my fertility problems are so simple.

winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

adinal is offline  
Old 07-20-2005, 11:30 PM
 
Camellia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon yo!
Posts: 4,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
If they're 45 it definitely won't work. Those are the facts.
I just have to jump in here and say that my husbands aunt is pregnant as a result of IVF and is definately over 45. I'm not sure of her exact age, but she is closer to 50 than 45.

I'm not educated enough on this subject to contribute much, but just wanted to point out that the above statement is not fact.
Camellia is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 12:10 AM
 
Daffodil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Vermont
Posts: 3,578
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe
Your fertility declines from 35, steeply at 38 and drops to almost nothing by 43.

After then you'd need to have an egg donor, but you could still give birth.
But you're talking about IVF success rates, which isn't exactly the same thing as "fertility." It may be true that almost no woman 43 or older will get pregnant through IVF with her own eggs, but most women in their 40's who get pregnant or try to aren't using IVF. There are probably a lot of 43 year old women who are able to get pregnant naturally. (I'm one of them! I also did IVF successfully at 40.) My understanding is that older eggs often aren't able to withstand all the manipulation involved in IVF as well as younger eggs. But the fragility of those older eggs is less of an issue if you're not trying to remove them from the body. (Though of course there are other issues, like an increased risk of chromosomal abnormalities.)
Daffodil is online now  
Old 07-21-2005, 01:48 AM
 
hollyhobbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: victoria, bc
Posts: 423
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i will be 40 in a couple of months. i got pregnant this time on the first try and this has been my easiest and best pregnancy!! (maybe i said this in my last post) i agree that every woman is different and i feel very blessed for my fertility and would not want to wait this long if i had to do it all over again.

i agree with adina that each woman needs to find her own path and be really educated. scare tactics and hard cold facts do not help!! i worked in adoptions for a while and there are TONS of stories of couples who had infertility issues and decided to move on to adoption then had babies!! over and over. no medical explanation. no facts can explain these types of things. i will tell any woman i meet not to wait and about the heartbreak of m/c and the possibility of not getting pregnant. but i also tell em my story and tell them to learn everything they can.
hollyhobbie is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 06:19 PM
 
wannabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,691
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Lindsay, I don't want to intrude on your aunt's decisions, and things she may not want to discuss with the whole world before she discusses them with her child, but please understand that an IVF pregnancy from their own eggs in someone nearing 50 would have been reported as a case study in one of the journals.

But I'm going to leave you all in your fantasy world now, where people just *know* their partner has azoospermia, or their tubes are blocked by endo, and that if they feel healthy they can have babies when they're 50.

As you've said, facts are not welcome here - I was sadly mistaken in thinking that people asking questions wanted factual, truthful answers.
wannabe is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 06:59 PM
 
nora--not a llama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: (.)(.)UNpop Cleavage(.)(.)
Posts: 3,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Um, wannabe, dontcha think your words are kind of rude and hateful and hurtful? Don't other people's feelings matter at all?
nora--not a llama is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 07:11 PM
 
anythingelse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,879
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
In a perfect plan you can have one child at 35 and another at 37 and everything goes well but IRL I have never met one mom that had things go exactly how they planned.


I have 4 children (16, 11, 8, and 5) and am in my early 40s. I miscarried between pregancys - and also had babies with birth defects. Most of my gf are my same age, the ones that are starting their families are all having lots of $$$$ related to that and health issues, problems staying pregnant. I was not financially or emotionally 'ready' when my oldest was born but it was definately the easiest pregnancy and healthiest child.

IMHO have your babies in your 20 and early 30s if you know you want them & want more then one. I would not wait till 35 and think I was going to be able to have 2.
anythingelse is offline  
Old 07-21-2005, 07:16 PM
 
Camellia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Oregon yo!
Posts: 4,068
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
See, I have very little knowledge in this dept. They must not have been her eggs

Anyway, I will leave this discussion now.
Camellia is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off