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#31 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 12:00 PM
 
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I have no doubt that a baby who is born vaginally and then scooped up into his moms arms is better off. But I know so many hb moms in my community whose babies spend the whole day in the bucket. When I see these threads I can`t help but think about how I would be if all of my births had been ideal. Maybe I would be rigid and unaccepting too. Since I do everything else on the AP checklist I guess I would be the perfect woman! My imperfect experiences have given me compassion and an appreciation of life I didn`t have years ago.

We can`t control everything in life and its scary to let your children grow up with that attitude. Even the continuum communities have children die sometimes and natural disasters. I had 2 disastrous homebirths, both where I was as alone as I wanted to be. Choosing a c/s was a matter of life and death for my next baby for 2 serious reasons. I won`t get into it all here because its pointless and nobody here owes anybody an explanation, especially Heavenly!

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#32 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 12:04 PM
 
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Heavenly, I'm so happy for you for arriving at a decision that you feel secure and at peace about. I'm sure it has to be a load off your mind, and now you can focus on the rest of your pregnancy and a stress-free planned birthday for your baby. Take care!
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#33 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 12:09 PM
 
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Here`s a different approach to research on c/s born babies. This is an interesting site about the personalities of people born by c/s. They mention that the vaginally born sees more limits and boundaries in life because of the constricting nature of natural birth and the c/s born sees life without as many boundaries esp. if they never experienced labor. The point is also made that we can learn from each other and bring each other to the middle. Very interesting.


http://www.eheart.com/cesarean/native.html#grofdrum

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#34 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 12:22 PM
 
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I think mother/ newborn bonding is a very mysterious process that is not necessarily determined by how a mother gives birth. I'm not saying it has no effect, but I do not at all believe how a baby is born determines whether or not that baby will bond to the mother and vice versa.

For example, I've read accounts of primates who give birth in the jungle and completely reject their offspring. Why? No one really knows. And then often ANOTHER female, sometimes a grandmother, sometimes not related, will come along and spontaneously bond to the offspring, and spontaneously begin lactating! How could that bonding take place if "pre-birth-parenting" determines bonding?

I've given birth four times vaginally with no pain meds. The baby I had the hardest time bonding with had the most natural, easiest birth of all of them. The two I bonded with the easiest were whisked away to the nursery for a couple hours and I didn't get to nurse them uninterrupted. But it didn't harm my bonding to them. My most painful, dreadful birth did not interrupt with the bonding either, really. So in my case there was no direct cause and effect between bonding and how "natural" the birth went or how un-meddled with the babies and I were.

Bonding isn't just physical, it's spiritual, and, is largely inexplicable.
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#35 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 04:01 PM
 
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You know...I have been killing myself over this decision. At first I was all about the VBAC, then I did my homework. And there is just something in me telling me not to do it. However, I fell like I am going to be disapointing my husband and doula....And it pisses me off that I feel that. My doula is a very close friend, and she is almost judgemental as far as beeing "natural" go's. My husband, well, he knows whatever I do will be the best thing for me and baby. I have made up my mind, but I am lacking the ability to tell my judgemental peers. Maybe it's just me feeling guilty? I dunno, but I do know that some women are meant to have CS. And it is difficult, but we need to look at it like the miracle that it is.

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#36 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 04:04 PM
 
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I'm going for a VBA2C, because that's what my gut says to do. My first two babies were breech, which was the reason for my sections (and I'm not convinced I should have had either of them). This one is head down, and I'm more pregnant (ie. further along) than I've ever been before. I take that as a sign that this one does not need to be a c-section.

If my gut were telling me that VBAC was wrong for me, I wouldn't go that route. I think you need to trust yourself on this, and not worry about what your doula and dh think.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#37 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 04:16 PM
 
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Iriemama96,
Listen to what your body is telling you - I have found that my gut instinct is generally right! While your DH and doula may have your best interest in mind, only you in your heart can truly know what is best for your baby.
If your feel a C/S is best, than there is no shame in it - in the end, a Mama's gut instinct is there to protect her child - do whatever you feel is the right thing and spend no time doubting your judgement.
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#38 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 06:59 PM
 
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I think if something inside of you is telling you not to VBAC and to have a repeat than you should have the repeat csection. I think instincts and following your gut is wise, even when it tells you something that goes against the grain.

At one point in this last pregnnacy I wanted to go to my due date, but then after talking to my OB and really meditating about it I decided it was best that she come at 38 weeks. Well when she was born, it was obvious to all in the OR that she wasn't 38 weeks, but even earlier (probably 36-37 weeks) However the day before my csection my blood pressure went significantly higher and I started to spill protein (my OB wouldnt even tell me how much), clear signs that I was going pre-e or was pre-e (like I had for several weeks in the prior pregnancy) I really felt that day that yep, it was time for the baby to vacate and that I had made the right decision, even after she was born and saw that she smaller and had things indicating she was not full term, the decision was the right one for all of us.

Kim
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#39 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 08:04 PM
 
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O The F....
I just love reading your posts, they make me really look at a CS in much more beautifull light. I think it was your birth plan that I read about a week ago, and it just inspired me. I don't think was aware that you had any options when it came to a CS. It felt very routine (I had an emergency CS with #1) I was shot full of morphine right after my son was out. And I hate that! I fought to stay awake for hours.
I know what I need to do, A VBAC would be great, but unfortunatly not for me. :
So I will just be happy with a cs, apparently the way I am meant to have babies.And really focus on making it wonderfull...

Did anyone have a doula at there CS?? Would it be recomended??

mama, who : with two little crazy hommies
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#40 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Iriemama96
O The F....
I just love reading your posts, they make me really look at a CS in much more beautifull light.

Did anyone have a doula at there CS?? Would it be recomended??
Thanks for the compliment!

I had my sister a former L&D nurse attend my last two csections. This way my spouse's total focus is on our baby and not on me. My sister's focus is on me and I believe acted as a doula. She massaged my hands and head while in surgery and talked me through it, before hand she helped me when they put in my epidural, talking me through it and massaging certain pressure points in my hands and wrists. In recovery she fed me ice chips, kept me in warm blankets, and once I was moved to my room, made sure anything I wanted or needed was done.

I am not sure if there are doulas who do care for cesarean section mothers, but there should be. I know that having my sister with me, to advocate for me, etc. played a big role in having a positive, peaceful experience both times.

Kim
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#41 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 09:29 PM
 
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Heavenly, congratulations on reaching a decision that is right for you. I wish you a smooth and peaceful birth.

On the topic of the significance of birth and how we are birthed, this is something I've struggled with a lot in my own personal decision of how I'm giving birth. I believe that birth is a significant event in one's life. I believe that a smooth arrival is a good thing. However, life is life, and things happen that we cannot plan for, cannot fathom and how do we make the best of it? I will do my very best to ensure a smooth, peaceful arrival of my child, but I take great comfort in knowing that birth is ONE part of a his/her life not THE part. I strongly reject that birth is THE defining moment of a person's life. What about conception? What about the months in utero, what about post partum, childhood, adolescence, etc? I think we get too stuck on wanting to find the one thing that we can do to ensure a happy and healthy life for a child. It doesn't exist. We do the best we can, and wouldn't it be nice if we could rest in that knowledge?

Am I a better person because I was home birth born and arrived gently? Who knows - I'm glad of that arrival, but does that mean I have any less baggage or challenges than the next person? More than some and less than others I'm sure, as with all things in life.

I would hope that we would all remember to trust life, to trust that things, however messy, painful and regretful, are a part of the greater weaving of life. Who am I to say that a child's birth wasn't just the perfect experience for them, that it was a part of their life journey that helped to guide them and form them and propel them on their way just like all the rest of their life experiences?

There is a book called Different Doorways: Adventures of a Caesarean Born by Jane Butterfield English. She writes about her experiences in the world as a person born via c/s and her internal processing. I haven't read it fully, but I like what I've read thus far. I appreciate the aknowledgement that c/s birth is another way of arriving in the world that presents the child with certain gifts and certain challenges as a result of that birth - as with ANY method of birth, not better gifts or worse challenges but unique to that experience.

Yes I wish there were fewer c/s, yes I wish that women were more respected during the birth process, no I do not think the decision to have a c/s should be made lightly, but perhaps we could shift from such right/wrong/good/bad perspectives and see births for what they are - an event, an opportunity for growth, to be grieved if necessary, to be celebrated, a rite of passage no matter how it unfolds.

Lisa

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#42 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 11:37 PM
 
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True..but I don't see how c/sec moms do rooming in.
The same way vaginal birth moms do rooming in, it would seem. My first daughter was a c-birth and my roommate at the time had had a vaginal birth. We both also had preeclampsia and so didn't room in for the first 24 hours (hosp. policy due to the medication we were on). Once that was past, though, they wheeled my daughter in in her bassinette, they wheeled my roommate's son in in his bassinette, and we took care of our children. I had to raise the head of my bed before I could sit up to take my daughter out of her bassinette, and I believe my roommate was able to sit up on her own, but that's the only difference of which I am aware. Something being painful to do does not mean it is impossible to do.

Shawna, as I have told you elsewhere, I fully support your decision. I have made the exact opposite one--I am pursuing a VBA2C even though that means an unassisted birth. But if I expect anyone to respect my decisions, it is imperative upon me that I respect your decision as well. If it is valid for me to look at the available information and decide the risks are worth taking, then it is equally valid for anyone else to look at the same information and draw the opposite conclusion. Supporting choice in birth means, in no small part, supporting the choice that isn't the one you would make. Freedom of choice means all choices, not just certain preapproved ones.

As far as method of birth damaging a child...Please, is there any room for common sense? To imply that a child's method of birth, providing it was not physically damaging, has more bearing on him than the next eightteen years of his life do is downright laughable. Yes, of course, there can be problems with bonding and with PPD after a c-birth, but they are hardly unique to that form of birth! More to the point, both are postpartum problems, rather than birth problems, and we would do well to recognize the difference between the two.

I have two wonderful daughters born by c-section. One I had problems bonding with, the other I did not. It would be ridiculous of me to have assumed, after the problems I had the first time around, that they were a result of her method of birth rather than the circumstances surrounding it--the depression that had dogged me throughout a goodly portion of my pregnancy, my husband's absence, and my extreme difficulty with early nursing. Oddly enough, when those circumstances did not repeat themselves, neither did the problems they produced, although the method of birth was exactly the same.

Sabra: Mama to Bobbie (3/02), Linda (1/04), Esther (10/05), Marie (11/10), & Douglas (11/12)

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#43 of 50 Old 07-18-2005, 11:49 PM
 
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Of course there are doulas who do c-births - and I think they can provide a lot of good especially in that situation. See, the thing that gets forgotten so much in the real world is that a cesarean needs to be first and foremost a BIRTH, not a surgery (although of course there is a surgery going on.)
I have attended some beautiful, beautiful cesarean births, and there is no reason you can't have a gentle, participatory, joyful birth in an operating room.
I always make sure if the baby is named already, that we are talking to the baby by name. I like to encourage mom and dad to talk to the baby and let them know it's their birthday and how much they can't wait to meet them. I like to have an anticipatory hush as the baby is born, so that mom can hear the baby's first noises herself, and then if all is well, baby can be lifted immediately where mom can see him/her. When I attend as a pediatric provider (I'm a family doc) I wrap the baby immediately and take him/her to mom's head, and if dad or a partner is there, they hold the baby while I do initial assessment. In most scheduled cesareans, the baby is fine and full term, so I really don't need to do anything urgently and except for drying and keeping warm, nothing needs to be done so urgently that the parents can't enjoy their new baby for as long as they like first. I feel passionately that if a cesarean birth is necessary, a woman, her baby, and her family don't have to give up a gentle, wonderful birth. When you need some aspects of modern medicine, you don't have to have every last impersonal, medical thing we can think to do!
About bonding. I was adopted at 11 weeks of age and was a content and bonded child - who was formula fed and slept in a crib. It hasn't hampered my adult development, or my ability to AP my own kids who were all naturally and vaginally birthed, co-slept with and extended breastfed - all supported and empowered by my own mother who's parenting experience was so different.
So much goes into making us the eventual persons we are. I don't take birth lightly - most of my career is focused on making it a mountain-top experience for every family I care for. But it is only a part of what makes us parents.
Heavenly - have a wonderful birth. You have no justifying to do around here. Enjoy your pregnancy and the ability your body has to grow a new human being. Plan your birth and insist on having it your way. And enjoy every second of that downy new baby stage - it goes so fast!
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#44 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 12:29 AM
 
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Something being painful to do does not mean it is impossible to do.
Maybe not...but with that same birth, I was incapable of getting off my couch on two separate occasions...and that was fully a week after the surgery. My muscles simply would not respond...the same thing happened in the hospital when I tried to get ds out of the bassinet. It took me forever to get out of bed and over to the thing, and then I couldn't lift him out when I got there.

Maybe it wasn't pain...maybe it was depression, maybe it was an adverse effect from the anesthetic...maybe it was three days of liquid diet. I don't know - I just know that if it had been left entirely up to me to care for my son, he'd have been in big trouble. However, from reading some of the post c-section stories on here, it's become very obvious to me that I'm a tremendous wimp. My recoveries have been nothing like a lot of the ones I read about here.

If I do end up with another section, I'll try rooming in again. But, my experiences with it don't leave me feeling very hopeful about it...

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#45 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 12:34 AM
 
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[QUOTE=Storm Bride] However, from reading some of the post c-section stories on here, it's become very obvious to me that I'm a tremendous wimp. My recoveries have been nothing like a lot of the ones I read about here.QUOTE]
No way Storm Bride are you a wimp!
Okay, I have a hard time believing that ANYONE who has a C/S birth is a wimp! Recovery is rough, and while I had moments where I felt fabulous, there were moments, like when I was trying to figure out how to get out of bed one night to go to the bathroom, that the pain just incapacitated me. That said, I was up and walking within 6 hours of my daughter's birth and took a shower shortly thereafter - I just think that we all have moments where we feel fabolous and moments where the discomfort is unbearable!
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#46 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 02:44 AM
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Originally Posted by hunnybumm
Honestly, if anyone is going to judge you for having an elective repeat c-section, then they need do some soul searching of their own. It's no ones decision but yours. You don't have to justify your reasons or give any details, the fact that you know you have choices, and you have weighed your options, and made a choice, shows you are informed on your decision. I think the problem that most woman on here have is that woman just choose a c-section for it's 'convience' or they are ignorant as to their choices/options.

Good luck with your pregnancy!

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#47 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 04:01 AM
 
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Heavenly, good luck with your pregnancy and birth!
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#48 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 02:25 PM
 
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Well thats helpfull..... My doula is also my best friend, I was her very first birth with my first son (emergency c/s) And she has told me that she will be there to support me in whatever happens. So I know she will really want to be there. I asked my doc about it, and she said it was up to the anastheologist (no idea how to spell that) wether or not she could be there...is that true?? I remember last time I had to be a total pain in the ass to get her in there with me....But I don't mind complaining!

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#49 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
True..but I don't see how c/sec moms do rooming in. I did it with dd, because dh was there with me 24 hours a day. But, he's going to have to come home at nights this time, to look after dd. And, if this is a section, I don't see how anybody can look after the baby for rooming in. I tried with ds, and couldn't even last one night. I couldn't get him out of the bassinet...I could barely stay on my feet long enough to change his diaper...it was just hopeless...
You don't need to stand up to change your baby! Keep that dear baby in your bed with you and voila, problem solved. My first that I had in the hospital, though it was a vag delivery, stayed in my bed the whole time and I changes him right there in my bed. The only time I got up was to go to the bathroom, which I tried not to do much since my bottom was so sore from the dumb OB's huge episiotomy for his dumb vacuum. Ugh! But anyway, I don't know how that would work with the c-section but you could just change baby right on your bed, right on your lap. Maybe that will make things easier. I'm hoping you go into labor before induction date, but rooming in might be doable after csection without DH. And hopefully you have a good RN that will help you get settled in good and is available to help.
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#50 of 50 Old 07-19-2005, 05:55 PM
 
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I have yet to have a nurse on the maternity ward that I even want coming in to my room, let alone actually trying to help me with anything. While I'm stuck there, I want to be left alone.

Can you really keep your baby in your hospital bed? I've co-slept with both babies, but I can't imagine having them in the those beds...they're so skinny...

DH thinks that he'll probably stay the nights with me if I have another section. We can put ds in our room, to stay with his sister. I'm not sure if that would work, but we can try it the first night and then dh can stay home if dd was too upset by the arrangement. She might be fine as she adores her big brother.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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