On Epidurals & FEelings Twords Women Who Get Them - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 04:09 PM
 
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AmyB
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Second, epidural mythology says that the pain of labor has no value. However, in my experience, the feelings in my body helped guide the birth. If I had not been able to feel my body, I am 100% sure my first child would have been born surgically.
The pain in your body does help guide you!! I wish I understood that more befor I gave birth.

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All I know is that the hospital staff didn't have a clue how to help a woman who wasn't numb and wouldn't believe anything I told them about what I felt in my body. So to me epidurals also reprsent unforgiveable ignorance about the process of birth on the part of conventionally-trained "medical experts". That experience has definitely given me a negative attitude.
Nurses that refused to listen to me was my main complaint about a hosipital birth.

When I read these post I hear judgement over and over again, maybe because I am gulity of not being 100% informed before I gave birth. I did make choices like getting an epi. but, it worked well for me in my case. I was able to have a vaginal birth of twin girls that were 8lb's each. What I would love to see is more support and education. The home birth mama's scared me before I gave birth because, (understandably now) they were so focuse on their way was the right way. Their way was the right way for them but, they needed to not be so down on women who choose differently than they did.
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#92 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 04:43 PM
 
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pam-you make a good point. We are a drug-lovin nation! I always wondered why women would put up with waxing their legs and shoving their feet into 5 in high heels but wouldn't even imagine trying for a natural birth. Now I understand.

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#93 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 05:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by massagemom
yes, but what are the "requirements" to be a follower of natural family living?
There are no requirements. But one also shouldn't feel hurt or judged if others don't agree with one's choices. The line between "judgement" and "difference of opinion" is often blurry and/or subjective. If one wants to be patted on the back for all decisions, even when they might not be completely compatible with typical NFL values, this may not be the best place to look. Or one may need to grow a slightly thicker skin.

Mothering.com isn't going to be the right place for everyone at every time for every topic. And that's okay. Generally speaking, cry it out isn't going to be popular. Hitting as a form of discipline won't be the norm. Formula feeding for no reason other than mom didn't feel like breastfeeding will be rare. Elective use of epidurals without serious exploration of other options (by this I mean that I'm NOT referring to the compassionate use of pain medication when necessary) will probably also be less common than on other pregnancy/parenting online communities.

As others have mentioned, in the case of epidurals, any negative views expressed here aren't necessarily a value judgement of the laboring woman ~ they may reflect objections to our societal norms and the non-mom-friendly ways that hospital L&D units are run. But societal norms often aren't going to be the norms here. Anyone who is not entirely comfortable with their choices may need to seek out alternative online sources of support in order to avoid feeling judged.

As an example, I don't talk much about homebirth on the other online community I frequent. I'd be judged harshly for it, and I just don't need that. My reasons for being a member there are unrelated to my birthing choices, and so I voluntarily compartmentalize in order to remain happy there. I don't see this as a bad thing. I don't expect to fit in 100% everywhere.
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#94 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 05:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by celrae



When I read these post I hear judgement over and over again, maybe because I am gulity of not being 100% informed before I gave birth. I did make choices like getting an epi. but, it worked well for me in my case. I was able to have a vaginal birth of twin girls that were 8lb's each. What I would love to see is more support and education. The home birth mama's scared me before I gave birth because, (understandably now) they were so focuse on their way was the right way. Their way was the right way for them but, they needed to not be so down on women who choose differently than they did.
That is awesome that you had a vaginal birth with twins -- way to go!

When you say more support, more support of what? There is a TON of support for women who want epidurals.
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#95 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 08:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by reader
That sounds extremely difficult to have to lay in a hospital bed with pitocin. I would've had an epi, for sure. But natural birth is not just about going pain relief free -- it's about avoiding certain siutations to begin with. As the pps mentioned, it's about the obstetrical system that has been set up to expect women to 1) lay in a bed during birth, which is the worst place you can be, and 2) to have augmentation forced on them when things don't progress normally from having to lay in the bed, etc.
that is a great point.

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#96 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 08:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by massagemom
yes, but that comparison would imply that someone that has received an epidural during childbirth "loves" epidurals. it is not the same thing.

i don't have any ill will towards anybody that has posted on this thread, actually it's the exact opposite, b/c i see this as a way for me to learn from other people and i have also articulated my own feelings about my birth to a higher level than before i posted on this thread.

my point really is that a woman you talk to a lot in the cloth diapering forum, or in the babywearing forum, or whatever forums are your favorite MAY have had an epidural during her birth. so to paint all women that have used pain relief during labor with the same broad brush is painful for everyone involved.

i don't think that anyone should be a proponent for epidural births either, it's the judgemental tone that pops up from time to time, about "those women that have used epidurals" that is being discussed. or at least that's the way i read the op.
No I totally agree with you. I just don't think I worded my post right.

-a woman who did not love her epidural.

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#97 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 09:09 PM
 
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RE: The tone of judgement around epidurals at MDC -
I believe it is just one more thing that women who enjoy the game of 'one uppance' (as in "I have one more up on you!") can bite into.

If your birth was empowering with pain relief then so be it & good on you!


I deserve the right to birth at home hanging from the chandeliers - just as another woman deserves the right to birth with an epidural if she so decides.
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#98 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 09:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by darsmama
RE: The tone of judgement around epidurals at MDC -
I believe it is just one more thing that women who enjoy the game of 'one uppance' (as in "I have one more up on you!") can bite into.
Can you give an example? I am not getting that from this thread at all...
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#99 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 10:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by reader
Can you give an example? I am not getting that from this thread at all...
I can't give you an example, Reader because it isn't here on this thread...I was responding to the original poster about the feelings of judgement towards women who recieve epidurals. I think a SMALL MINORITY of women who have had ncb (a small minority, again) use it as a way they 'out mother' someone else, or feel superior to other moms.

If, in your walks among real world living (or on MDC) you HAVEN'T run into women who try to 'out mother' each other and birth is just one more avenue they take to do that it - then you really are a fortunate woman...

I just assumed every woman had experianced, or been guilty at one time or another (I know I have) of the type of mom who plays one uppance.
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#100 of 106 Old 08-26-2005, 10:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jplain
There are no requirements. But one also shouldn't feel hurt or judged if others don't agree with one's choices. The line between "judgement" and "difference of opinion" is often blurry and/or subjective. If one wants to be patted on the back for all decisions, even when they might not be completely compatible with typical NFL values, this may not be the best place to look. Or one may need to grow a slightly thicker skin.

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#101 of 106 Old 08-27-2005, 12:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jplain
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I 100% agree with this post.

Regarding support, I wanted to be able to talk about the birth experince with other moms and not feel bad about my choices. As a new mom I was sensitive to other peoples opinions and I felt like I couldn't talk to them. Because, I was overly sensitive I didn't ask all the ?'s I needed to before my birth experince. I just wish people were not so black or white, natural vs. hosipital both have positives.
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#102 of 106 Old 08-27-2005, 03:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by charmcitymama
IAlso, does anyone know anyone paralyzed by an epidural or a baby with brain damage? I have never heard of anyone actually having that happen, have you?
Although aiming for NCB I was induced with Pit and opted for the epidural....and it took about 6 weeks for me to regain feeling in one of my hands and one of my feet on either side of my body.
I was unable to carry my child in my arms those few weeks because my foot would all of the sudden give out on me and down to the ground I would go...I also walked with that foot dragging behind as I could not control it and lift up my leg properly.
The Doctors and Midwives all said this was due to the epi...and I had the perfect epi not a problem with it during delivery etc. Although it is not extreme it did happen and it was scary for me.
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#103 of 106 Old 08-27-2005, 05:22 PM
 
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My reason for not wanting an epidural in labor is quite simple: it puts me one step closer to having a C-section.

Do all epis end in C-sections? Of course not. Could I end up with a C-section anyway? Sure. But all interventions (IVs, pitocin, epi, etc.) increase your odds of more interventions.
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#104 of 106 Old 08-27-2005, 05:51 PM
 
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I know it doesn't really matter, but I am fresh off the birthing bed and had an epi for the first time ever.

My first 3 children were totally natural midwife attended hospital births. I managed well and even enjoyed birthing my first three children.

My fourth child is 3 days old today. I expected a short easy labour with no interventions. However, after more than 24 hours of back labor and contractions 3-5 minutes apart. I was exausted to say the least. I opted for an epi at that point. I do not regret my decision. This was my hardest and longest labor. Isaac was born face up after alot of pushing. I could feel all of the pushing phase and was grateful for the few hours of rest that the epi gave me before pushing began.

Everyone has a different birth experience. I *NEVER* thought I would have an epi in a million years!! I was wrong, and I don't regret my decision for a minute.

I will not be one to ever judge another's decision in this matter.
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#105 of 106 Old 08-27-2005, 07:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by massagemom
yes, but what are the "requirements" to be a follower of natural family living?

is an epidural birth but using cloth diapers and not circumcising or vaxing "good" enough?

or a natural birth but using disposable diapers and circumcising but not vaxing?


what's the magic combination?


obviously a woman would not be on this site if she weren't interested in learning more about NFL or weren't a follower to some degree.
I agree... there shouldn't be a magic combination, right? I cloth diaper, no circ, breastfeed BUT I vaxed and ended up with an epi/c-section... it's hard to define a line...I would be hurt to think people are judging me as "not crunchy enough" or in the opposite situation "too crunchy" and would just appreciate that I am here because I am interested in being here and share some similar views with others.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#106 of 106 Old 08-28-2005, 03:19 AM
 
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I think that overall, the people at MDC are not judgemental of individual women's choices to have/not have epidurals, but are as many mentioned, upset by the system in place currently. That being said, I have to agree with a PP who mentioned that there are a few who are judgemental, and use natural childbirth to "one up" others who didn't have a natural birth for whatever reason. I think sometimes there is misinformation on both sides. I've read here that there is often a "cascade of interventions"-yeah, sure there often is, but not always. This is not usually presented. I mean, I had two epidural births with fast labors, no episiotimy, forceps, tears, vaccuum, etc. I've read that epidural moms often don't nurse their babies-tell that to my almost 4 year old who's waiting her turn while the 8 month old nurses. I've read (thanks Ina May) that natural birth is "orgasmic"-umm, not for me (before meds) and I know a lot of women, but never heard that particular term before from any of them. I've also read that epidural moms are uninformed- I knew the risks, and made the decision anyway, and I prepared for natural childbirth (I thought I was prepared with the first, and I really studied hard before the second). I even read here on MDC once that epidural babies are born blue and floppy!

I'm not a pro-epidural person by any means. In fact, I greatly regret my birthing experiences, and wish they had happened differently. I think that this may be the case with many mamas here who had an epidural despite their intentions to go natural. It is hard to read about what you're supposed to live up to, and then have someone make a disrespectful or generalized comment about "those women" who have epidurals.
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