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-   -   Is it possible to deliver breech baby vaginally? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/213-birth-beyond/445663-possible-deliver-breech-baby-vaginally.html)

irinam 05-01-2006 02:55 PM

A distant friend of mine found out her baby is breech. She is due in three weeks and the docs scheduled a C-section for her for 1 week before her due date. They said she only has 20% chance of baby turning even with all of the excersices.

So is it an only option she has? Trying to deliver a breech baby vaginally is close to imposible / high risk?

I never had to deal with this, so can you wise mamas please educate me on this?

TIA!

ETA: she and her husband don't seem to think much of C-section, other than some inconvinience and longer recovery. Again I am not educated on that portion either, so I guess the second question would be - how "bad" the C-section really is? (I just know I am going to get some flack for phrasing it that way )

MamaTaraX 05-01-2006 03:08 PM

Yes, breech babies can be born vaginally. Its slightly less safe than a head-first delivery but safer than a c/section. Doctors today are no longer actively trained to handle a breech birth. They are trained to section them all. So finding a care provider who can, and will, attend one is hard to do these days.
In this situation, I'd say that the best thing to remember is that if you don't want a section, don't show up for it. Nobody can cut you open if you odn't show up or hold still for a needle in your back. Having said that, it sounds like your friend probably doesn't care much either way. I alwyas am ujp for a chance to educate though. Babies can turn, even durign labor. If nothing else, perhaps you could let her know that it is safer to go into labor on her own than to schedule a c/s. They can still do the surgery, even if she goes into labor on her own. Sounds like she's not going to be able to convince her doc otherwise, but, breech bbaies can be safely born vaginally and it is best done if the birth is not overly-managed. In other words; keep hands off the baby when it is being born. Pulling and moving the baby are great ways to injure it and tear mom too. Unless the baby is in a really strange position, it can be born breech if the mom really wants it too. I think I'd go with trying to get her to at least see the light of going into labor then hoping for thebest.

Namaste, Tara

lrlittle 05-01-2006 03:18 PM

Yes! It certainly is possible. It just isn't done that much anymore because docs would rather section. My son was a breech vaginal birth in January. It takes some work to find someone who will deliver, and it sounds like your friend may not want to go the extra mile. But it can be done!

Mama~Love 05-01-2006 03:21 PM

Yep, it's possible!! My mom had 4 breech babies (out of 7) vaginally, so it can be done!

But Dr.'s are more likely to do a C-section nowadays .

lovebugmama 05-01-2006 03:25 PM

There are also other ways for her to get her baby to turn. There is a chiropractic technique as well as moxibustion. The two people I have known who tried moxibustion it worked for. I think it has quite a high success rate and is very non-invasive and safe. It involves the practitioner burning certain herbs near the toes. It sounds crazy but it works. She should definitely try it before just giving in to a c-sec.

http://www.acupuncturetoday.com/abc/moxibustion.html

alegna 05-01-2006 03:26 PM

Absolutely possible. Whether she can find a Dr. to agree to it- something else all together.

-Angela

mothragirl 05-01-2006 03:27 PM

maybe she could call the farm. they deliver breech babies and will be able to give her a lot of information. i think being unmedicated helps a lot during a breech delivery and that is probably why so many doctors are unfamiliar with it these days.

ErinBird 05-01-2006 03:29 PM

Can be done. Breech births are a variation of normal. Mom would probably need to birth ina squatting position, which opens the pelvis ~30% more than lying on the back to reduce the chances of baby's shoulders/head getting stuck. I'm sure someone else will have more info, but I'm also fairly sure one of the things that increases the risk of vaginal breech over other presentations is increased risk of cord prolapse since baby's behind/feet don't "plug" the cervix the same way a head can.

http://www.unhinderedliving.com/breech.html

I've seen a few stories recently where mom is scheduled to deliver by C-section a week or more before her due date solely because baby is presenting breech. Why schedule so early? If doctors insist on sectioning, couldn't they let mom go into early labor/progress to at least 41 weeks with no labor and then do the section??

NYCVeg 05-01-2006 03:42 PM

Not ALL breech babies can be born vaginally--there are a number of different types of breech; some can be born vaginally and some can't. Lotus breeches, for instance (baby is basically sitting cross-legged, head up), usually can't. Footling or frank breechs (foot or butt first) usually can, I believe.

But the bigger problem here is care provider. Most doctors these days simply aren't trained in delivering a breech baby. If she wants to have a vaginal birth, she needs to get more info on baby's exact position and then find a doctor or midwife who has practice delivering breeches. Where I live, for instance, there is one doctor who is well-known as THE only practitioner in the area who will deliver a breech. Women frequently transfer into his practice at 38 or 40 weeks if they have a breech baby and don't want a c/s.

I'm not sure if others will agree with here, but, if she's unwilling to change providers--I would not risk having a totally inexperienced doctor deliver my breech baby; in that case, I think a c/s is actually safer. But, if I had a doctor or midwife who WAS comfortable delivering a breech baby vaginally--and, personally, I would certainly look for one--I think that would be safer than a c/s.

Emilie 05-01-2006 04:49 PM

my mw delivers breech all the time.

MelKnee 05-01-2006 05:08 PM

Even if she decides to go with the c/s, she can wait to do it until she actually starts labor. That way the baby is ready to be born.

lrlittle 05-01-2006 05:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCVeg
Not ALL breech babies can be born vaginally--there are a number of different types of breech; some can be born vaginally and some can't. Lotus breeches, for instance (baby is basically sitting cross-legged, head up), usually can't. Footling or frank breechs (foot or butt first) usually can, I believe.

But the bigger problem here is care provider. Most doctors these days simply aren't trained in delivering a breech baby. If she wants to have a vaginal birth, she needs to get more info on baby's exact position and then find a doctor or midwife who has practice delivering breeches. Where I live, for instance, there is one doctor who is well-known as THE only practitioner in the area who will deliver a breech. Women frequently transfer into his practice at 38 or 40 weeks if they have a breech baby and don't want a c/s.

I'm not sure if others will agree with here, but, if she's unwilling to change providers--I would not risk having a totally inexperienced doctor deliver my breech baby; in that case, I think a c/s is actually safer. But, if I had a doctor or midwife who WAS comfortable delivering a breech baby vaginally--and, personally, I would certainly look for one--I think that would be safer than a c/s.

I totally agree. Finding someone who knows what they're doing is key. Some docs will try fancy maneuvering that can really mess things up. A doc or midwife that knows their stuff and basically keeps their hands off is the way to go. I would not try to talk a doc or midwife into a "trial of labor" if it's not their idea in the first place...not a good sign.

velcromom 05-01-2006 05:44 PM

A c/s affects the rest of your reproductive life, not just the recovery period. It increases risks for future pregnancy, no matter how you are going to birth the next babies. It also makes your future reproductive choices more narrow, as more and more hospitals are banning VBACs. Also, studies show better outcomes for babies birthed vaginally. Of course as the pp's said, the availability of skilled care providers may be a factor. It's a whole lot more complicated than just inconvenience and a little recovery. It's not a choice to be made lightly.

If you can, send her a link to ICAN www.ican-online.org so she can be well informed about surgical birth. Also, here is a link to a photo story of a breech birth. If she's never believed breech can be vaginal, this may be very surprising to her and more impactful than words.

http://www.breechbabies.com/Izaiah_breech_pictures.htm

aweynsayl 05-01-2006 07:50 PM

"can" is so subjective here.... depends partly on state law/etc. in WA state, nope.

i've heard the farm isnt even doing it anymore-- hope that's wrong.

mine was 11lbs, turned at 39 weeks, and couldnt get him to turn back... i was devistated, esp after reading some things some folks here tend to say about it, but all three of my midwives actually said that if they'd been me, they would not have even tried to go vaginal with an 11 lb breech baby... so, there's some consolation for me, being in a position where i wouldnt have been "allowed" to.

my story, in case she's interested: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=444751

mamato2boys 05-01-2006 08:18 PM

Like the others have said, totally possible depending on the type of breech AND being able to find a health care provider that is trained. Also to consider if she is birthing in a hospital is their "rules". If they have a blanket policy against vaginal breech birth she'd have to find another hospital.

My third was breech and my midwife did not have experience to assist us. The closest doctor I could find was 2 1/2 hours away. We were prepared to make the drive but the baby turned thanks to accupuncture.

I have a friend in another state that went into the hospital, midwife found out baby was breech, started discussing cesarean. Mom refused cesarean, which apparently no one had ever done there before. The midwife's OB consultant said OK (after consulting with the head of the hospital and the insurance company), I'll observe and you can attempt a breech vaginal delivery. She birthed vaginally!

Your friend would need to do some work to find a different health care provider though...

katt 05-01-2006 08:20 PM

The Chiro. technique for helping to turn a breech baby is : The Webster Technique.

The Accupuncture technique is Moxibustion (sp??), which involves burning something beside a trigger point?????????????????????????

mamaverdi 05-02-2006 04:07 AM

Mothers deliver babies, not midwives, not doctors. Mothers.

Of course babies can be born vaginally. Very few positions prevent babies from being born vaginally. Breech is one variation on normal. Of course there are abnormal variations on normal breech, just as there are on normal vertex.

What a breech-baby-birthing woman needs is someone who will sit on their hands unless they are absolutely necessary.

What about that link to the twins born at home, unassisted, one was breech, yes?

mv

nurnur 05-02-2006 04:34 AM

[QUOTE=moosemommy]"can" is so subjective here.... depends partly on state law/etc. in WA state, nope.

i've heard the farm isnt even doing it anymore-- hope that's wrong.

Im here in WA state and I have to say....that is bad info. That may be what "MOST" of the midwives/docs want you to believe is LAW but it isn't true. In fact you can go to the Wa. state dept of health website and look up Shaheeda Pierce's case. She is a midwife who recently was tried for supporting a women's right to birth her breech baby. The judge said it IS not illegal in this state. It is however a gray area. I do know of a few midwives who do breech here.

~Carrie

dlm194 05-02-2006 12:55 PM

I have a labmate at work who delivered a breech baby (3 weeks late!). I also work with another woman who was a breech delivery (she is one of the highest women in the company, incidently!)

It is possible! I would definitely try turning techniques first but I can't see any harm in waiting for labor to start. Seems so many babies are breech today, even though they are only supposed to account for 2-4% of births. I have 5 friends/coworkers who had breech babies. I can't help wondering if doctors are sectioning these babies before they've had a chance to flip???

doula and mom 05-02-2006 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna
Absolutely possible. Whether she can find a Dr. to agree to it- something else all together.
:

My second baby was a feet-first breech and I birthed him vaginally. It didn't seem to feel any different than birthing the "regular" way.

However when I was pregnant with my third (we had moved cross country), I was in a car accident, hit by a drunk driver, and had to get monitored in l/d triage... while I was there I asked one of the resident whether or not she'd ever seen a breech vaginal birth. She said no. This was a VERY "progressive" hospital that has Baby-Friendly status.

wannabe 05-02-2006 08:13 PM

Irinam, it does depend what sort of breech it is - some are safe, some are very dangerous, depending how the baby's legs are sitting, and their head position. It also depends whether it's the first baby or the fifth (my midwife friend helped an unexpected footling breech at a birth centre - it was the mother's fifth baby which was apparently a very good thing! She didn't even need to push and that baby just came straight out)

But as NYCveg said - I wouldn't let an inexperienced caregiver near me with a breech baby. Very bad things can happen.

eta a link to the different variations on breech
http://www.birth.com.au/class.asp?class=603&page=5

Raven 05-02-2006 08:22 PM

Yes it is possible - my third baby was breech and I had a surprise unassisted birth. The labour was very fast and she literally shot out in one contraction. I was standing up

Quagmire 05-02-2006 08:27 PM

Slightly off topic, but ... my midwife told me that state law prevents her from delivering a breech baby. Anyone know of a link where I can find more info on this? Maybe a state-by-state rundown of laws on breech and type of care provider?

member234098 05-02-2006 11:13 PM

Breech babies have been delivered vaginally as a matter of routine until about fifty years ago.

Many practitioners who have been trained to deliver breech babies actually prefer delivering them to cephalic babies.

There are problems with delivering breech babies, however the biggest problem is often the reason the baby is a sacral presentation rather than the problems with the mechanics of delivering a breech baby.

For instance, a baby that is breech may have hydrocephalus, be premature, there may be a cord or a placental problem, the uterus may be misshapened.

Jilian 05-03-2006 12:28 PM

I agree with what the others have said. Have your friend visit www.spinningbabies.com for some good suggestions on turning a breech. Babies can turn all the way up until the are being born, a client I was a doula for had her baby turn during active labor.

huggerwocky 05-03-2006 05:12 PM

If I'll have a frank breech I'll deliver vaginally, if a section is necessary I'd wait to go into labour anyway. And then ditto to what others already said.

shannonkk 07-01-2014 12:26 PM

[quote=nurnur;5044989]
Quote:

Originally Posted by moosemommy
"can" is so subjective here.... depends partly on state law/etc. in WA state, nope.<br><br>
i've heard the farm isnt even doing it anymore-- hope that's wrong.<br><br>
Im here in WA state and I have to say....that is bad info. That may be what "MOST" of the midwives/docs want you to believe is LAW but it isn't true. In fact you can go to the Wa. state dept of health website and look up Shaheeda Pierce's case. She is a midwife who recently was tried for supporting a women's right to birth her breech baby. The judge said it IS not illegal in this state. It is however a gray area. I do know of a few midwives who do breech here.<br><br>
~Carrie

Would you be interested in helping me find a midwive or someone to help me deliver vaginally if baby is breech. This is my fifth and first two were induced and vaginal due to pre eclampsia and second I cannot remember why I was induced. Third was section because they thought he would be too big and he ended up being same size as my second. Fourth had Diaphragmatic Hernia and the doctors told me it was better to do csection early so they could have a special team there and waiting just for him and I agreed. I do not want another csection and I plan on refusing even if my husband has to deliver. I am in Wa state in the South King County/Pierce county area

JamieCatheryn 07-01-2014 12:59 PM

[quote=shannonkk;17745698]
Quote:

Originally Posted by nurnur (Post 5044989)

Would you be interested in helping me find a midwive or someone to help me deliver vaginally if baby is breech. This is my fifth and first two were induced and vaginal due to pre eclampsia and second I cannot remember why I was induced. Third was section because they thought he would be too big and he ended up being same size as my second. Fourth had Diaphragmatic Hernia and the doctors told me it was better to do csection early so they could have a special team there and waiting just for him and I agreed. I do not want another csection and I plan on refusing even if my husband has to deliver. I am in Wa state in the South King County/Pierce county area

Here are the midwives, chances of you being risked out are quite high unless the practice is VERY openminded though. Check every avenue possible. http://www.washingtonmidwives.org/me...northwest.html


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