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#61 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 12:46 PM
 
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I am a selfish only child. Until I had my boys, my thoughts on kids were of the "eh, they're okay but not great" variety. Even while I was pregnant with my first, I felt kind of detached from the whole thing. And scared. I was terrified on the changes that were soon to come into my life.

Then I had Evan. Then Drew. Words can never adequately describe my love for them. They are the sweetest, funniest, most precious people in my life. What if I had never given that a chance?

That said, if your gut is telling you NO WAY to kids, you should listen to it. BUT... if there is even the tiniest doubt that you could find happiness with your child, you should give it a chance. It sounds like your partner would be a tremendous support to you.

Also:

1. the only time I peed myself was when I saw the 40 Year Old Virgin during my third trimester... and I bet lots of people peed themselved during that movie.

2. Labor hurts. A lot. There's no denying that. But the pain is a different and specialized kind of pain. AND IT ENDS. Remember: The less you interfere with your body during labor, the more completely the pain is gone once your baby is in your arms.

Good luck to you. I wish you the happiness of a baby.
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#62 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 12:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ACesPlace
And finally, I have faithfully used birth control all my life. I have suffered two failures, repeat: two failures. I have never, NEVER, yes that's right, not even once in college, have I ever had sex without birth control. Nothing is perfect, and I am far from careless.
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.

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#63 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 01:36 PM
 
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I just realized that in my earlier post I never answered the original question: why have kids? People have made terrific lists, and I agree with many of the previously-mentioned reasons.

However, my main reason was that I felt that passing my husband's and my values on to kids we would raise, would help put two responsible, intelligent, caring, hard-working people on the earth. And the earth definitely needs more such people! I can't guarantee how my kids will turn out, but I daresay their chances of turning out well are pretty good if we continue to love them and give them a safe, stable environment and loving (sometimes firm) guidance. Frankly, if we leave all the "breeding" to the willfully ignorant and lazy people of the world, then we have no right to complain about how things turn out.
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#64 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 02:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kerikadi
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.
I had an abortion between my two oldest sons. I am now pregnant with my fourth child, for the fifth time and would hate to think of my life without the children I've had after abortion, should I have opted for tubal ligation.

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#65 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 02:43 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kawa kamuri
I had an abortion between my two oldest sons. I am now pregnant with my fourth child, for the fifth time and would hate to think of my life without the children I've had after abortion, should I have opted for tubal ligation.
yes, but you want children at all. You might not have been ready for another child at the time of your abortion, but you knew that you might want other children. Not quite the same thing as the OP.
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#66 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 03:45 PM
 
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Alright, mamas. I think some of you may have forgotten something here. This woman has not come to us and said that she has already HAD another abortion. She is STRUGGLING with a choice, and slamming her, no matter how rough around the edges her story may be, is not going to save this child. Please find compassion within yourself and try to be kind? Aren't we all here to learn? This mama has come here to learn from some of the kindest and most compassionate mothers I know...please try to teach her the things you know to be true! A person who is put on the defensive is less likely to be taught, don't you think?

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#67 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 03:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sapphire_chan
yes, but you want children at all. You might not have been ready for another child at the time of your abortion, but you knew that you might want other children. Not quite the same thing as the OP.
:

This woman is considering abortion for the SECOND time! She has made it clear that she does not want children. She knew after the first abortion that she didn't want children - not further down the line maybe but not at any time.
I am not beating her up. She doesn't want children so doing something permanent rather than relying on bc which we all not is not 100% effective no matter what the method would be the best choice.

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#68 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 03:51 PM
 
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A person who is put on the defensive is less likely to be taught, don't you think?
Sure. But whether she learns something from this or not is on her shoulders, no one else's, and I would hope she would be swayed by logic and her own heart rather than other people's manners.
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#69 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 04:01 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kerikadi
One would think after your first failure you would find a more foolproof method. sterilization comes to mind, I hope you are considering that now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by courteney e
This woman has not come to us and said that she has already HAD another abortion. She is STRUGGLING with a choice, and slamming her, no matter how rough around the edges her story may be, is not going to save this child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerikadi
I am not beating her up. She doesn't want children so doing something permanent rather than relying on bc which we all not is not 100% effective no matter what the method would be the best choice.
This may be true, but it also goes without saying. It is also irrelevant to the point of the original post, which is that she is in conflict and looking for perspective. To say that she should not have allowed herself to be in this situation in the first place is pointless. Perhaps she made a mistake, perhaps not -- there are valid reasons not to have surgery or abstain, and not everyone feels the same way about abortion. Further, she may have been led in this direction by her own psyche or by forces outside of herself for a reason, so it is really not for anyone to judge whether she should have gotten pregnant. For all you know, this will be a hugely transformative thing for her to work through and may result in healing and good. Whatever the case, she is pregnant now, and there is no going back. For people to continue to point out her "mistake" -- if it was that -- is not contructive in any sense.
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#70 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 06:42 PM
 
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Yes, fourlittlebirds, that's the point I was trying to make. She is pregnant, and trying to come to terms, AND honestly asking why people want babies...I think HOPING to find some common ground. If she were simply going to abort, she would already have done so. Instead, she is seeking to figure out whether that's TRUELY what she wants to do. That she hasn't already done so leads me to believe that, in her heart, perhaps she doesn't want to. Could we help her instead of bashing her? And no, I DON'T think that bashing her will help. But, that's just my opinion...

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#71 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 06:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by courtenay_e
Could we help her instead of bashing her? And no, I DON'T think that bashing her will help. But, that's just my opinion...
Where is she being bashed?
From what I have read I guess my post would seem the most 'agressive' and I only suggested she be serilized and only because she has made it obvoius (if only to me) that she has no desire to have children and plans on keeping this pregnancy a secret from her SO.

These are HER words:
Quote:
I am now in the position where I am going to have to have another termination, which is fine with me, but the father is a great guy and I can't tell him about it. He will want it, and I can't handle it. I would rather shoot myself quickly than be pregnant or go through labor.
Nobody has called her names or said anything negative about choosing to abort which I know is likely hard for *some* of us. I think she has been met with MUCH compassion.

I will admit I am one of those people that has a hard time with women using abortion as birth control but that's just *me*.

I don't think any of us want to debate and nobody is being mean or rude - just sharing our opinions on a bulletin board.

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#72 of 97 Old 05-30-2006, 07:10 PM
 
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Kari, I also really really have a difficult time watching people use abortion as birth control. However, I also know that being "agressive" when people are looking for education and help isn't necessarily the way to get them to change their ways. I'm not looking for an arguement, just hoping to help someone who may be teetering on the edge of NOT aborting a child to keep that baby alive! Teach her with kindness. Offer resources (I have done this through pm) to help keep her gestating, to make her more sure of the possibility of birth. She has written that she's printed out the reasons people appreciate/want their children, and is reading them over with an impartial friend. This is definately a step toward keeping that baby alive...even if it's to adopt it out to another person. Lets keep her in that mindset, shall we?

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#73 of 97 Old 05-31-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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Thread re-opening. A couple of posts have been removed for violating the User Agreement.

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#74 of 97 Old 05-31-2006, 11:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sapphire_chan
At age 45, maybe you should look into more permanant ways to prevent pregnancy. I mean, it's hardly likely that you don't know your own mind by now and if some incredible incidence does happen to make you want children--you can always adopt.
I should clarify, I said this because often times women who try to get permanent birthcontrol because they know they don't want children are fed a line about how "what if you change your mind?" "kids are *so* wonderful" "you're still young!" Even when they're at an age when other women are being fed lines like "are you sure you should get pregnant at your age?"
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#75 of 97 Old 06-01-2006, 08:07 PM
 
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Why would I want to do this...and do it again?

Look at that man who fathered the unborn child you're carrying. You will love your child as much, some would argue, more, than you love him. Or imagine another person in your life that you love dearly...it won't compare to the love you have for your own child.

The child you're carrying isn't just a "kid" you're going to have---it's a whole life....a baby, child, teenager, adult....your child will probably become a parent and continue that family legacy. This goes beyond you and what you want right now--it will affect so many more lives than just your own.
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#76 of 97 Old 06-01-2006, 09:01 PM
 
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I can say I was one who never cared for children, did not actually like being around them, felt no fondness for them whatsoever. I said in my teens I'd never want to be a mom.

Ds1 was a surprise, and I couldn't even imagine what life would be like with a child... but you know what, it all changed when he was born. Maternal instinct kicked in and all that resistance and distaste for everything child-related faded away.

I'm not saying it's all rainbows and butterflies, it's still just life - sometimes rough sometimes euphoric, and anywhere inbetween. But way better than I could have or would have predicted, before actually having a child I would have predicted negative consequences to my life. I was wrong about that.

Now my husband and I are ttc.. and we ask ourselves why we want another child, why bring a person into this life? I am looking at it as inviting a person into this life to share it with us, I've seen how families grow together and it can be so amazing. It can be fulfilling, even if it is not what you thought you wanted.

There are lots of couples out there who can't have children - could you consider adoption if you ultimately decide that you do not want to raise a child?
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#77 of 97 Old 06-02-2006, 05:13 PM
 
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To the OP, if you're still reading:

We obviously come from two different planets when it comes to children, as I've wanted to be a mom my whole life, but you did come seeking a different perspective.

Children are the future. That's incredibly tribe but absolutely true. We have the opportunity to change the world not only in what we do with our own lives but what we do to help shape our children's lives. Being the best mother I can be to my amazing daughter is just as important a contribution as the work I do in mathematics and music, at my job, every day.

Even knowing that I wanted to be a mom, pregnancy was the most amazing experience, and motherhood has been even better. That's not to say there aren't challenges, although unlike your friends, I have never peed myself, and during pregnancy only vomited once, and that was from an unrelated illness. I couldn't believe how outright cool it was to feel another being growing inside me, and nothing compares with the first time I felt movement. And then she was born. As much as I loved her while I was pregnant, the love I have for her now dwarfs it. She made our family a family. She brought my husband and me much closer.....and he was ambivalent at best about having kids before she was born!

I think your friends' experiences may be colored by their attitudes. Are they people who have always valued material success and tangible milestones? To people like this, having a child might be seen as one more accomplishment, another thing to tick off on the great to-do list of life. When confronted with the reality of poopy diapers, runny noses, and middle-of-the-night crying, these parents might regret having a baby who isn't just always cute and adorable. You repeatedly mention these people as close friends, and friends usually share the same values. If you have never liked or wanted children, then odds are they never really wanted them for deeper-seeded reasons either. This will definitely color the way they view the not-so-easy parts of parenthood.
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#78 of 97 Old 06-02-2006, 05:33 PM
 
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Haven't read the whole thread yet and it looks like to gets kind of ugly.

There are some parallels between my life and yours. I have one child who was born when I was 33 and I'm 36 now and DH is 46. I terminated a pregnancy with DH (not married then) when I was in my early 20s. We've been together for quite some time and had a fabulous life pre-baby. I never wanted children as a young adult, but I always figured that my bio clock would one day start ticking. I figured I'd want them when I got older. I was ambivalent about getting pregnant at 32. I still wasn't sure I wanted a kid, but figured I would give it a go since I was running out of time to change my mind. DH and I were both like - if it works, great and if not, well, we've got a pretty good life. To our surprise we got pregnant right away.

My pregnancy was great, again to my surprise. I really enjoyed it. People are always happy to see a pregnant woman. I think it reminds them of hope and future. I'm not one who usually like attention all the time (the whole bridal scene gave me the heebejeebies), but I enjoyed the pregnancy. DH and I (who had been together for 11 years) fell in love all over again while I was pregnant. Never thought that would happen, but it was like we were first dating. We laid in bed and simply gazed into each others eyes - just like new pupply love. I mean, after 11 years, I kinda figured that aspect was over for both of us. A co-worker, also pregnant in her 40s said the same thing to me and was equally surprised.

And here's my favorite story. I used to love to lay in bed and read the Sunday paper with DH. This was our quality time - lazy decadence from a hectic workweek. I couldn't imagine what my life would be like with some screaming kid pulling me out of bed in the morning. And one day, after I had my daughter and I was tickling her in our bed together, and nuzzling her and making her laugh, it ocurred to me that I didn't miss that paper one darn bit! My child was so absorbing, so interesting and even at times relaxing, that it just superceded any thought of the Sunday paper.

Obviously, we can't make this decision for you. But I wanted you to know that there are people who aren't so different from you. Annie Lamott is a good author to read - her situation is similar to yours, but the father was skipping out and she was a poor struggling writer. I liked Meredith Small's Our Babies Ourselves for opening my eyes to the uniquely Western view that children REQUIRE sacrifice on the part of the parents. That's not a given, it's just a cultural construct. Finally, Jean Liedloff's The Continuum Concept gave the confidence to understand that I didn't have to subjugate my life for that of my baby's. It showed me that I could have a child and bring her into my life, not change my life for hers.

PS - I'm 5'2", 100lbs soaking wet and a "pain weenie." I gained 47lbs while pregnant and easily birthed an 8lb 9 0z health baby girl naturally. Childbirth does not HAVE to be the horror story so many people make it out to be! Labor pain is not like other pain - it's really like good pain. I had a great doula supplied by the hospital.

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#79 of 97 Old 06-02-2006, 05:40 PM
 
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I too wonder if the OP even still around and wonder how/why she came here of all places.

However, I just wanted to add that I, in general, don't like children. I love my children, but I don't like kids or think they are cute or enjoy being around other people's children. There are a few rare exceptions, but in general I don't like kids. But I love my children and wouldn't give them up for the world, I would do it all again.
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#80 of 97 Old 06-03-2006, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thank you all for your input. No, I am not a troll. I have so little computer experience I had to ask someone to define a troll for me. (The only troll I knew about was the travelocity elf or whatever he is called.)

This has been an amazing personal experience for me. Other than the fact that I have learned a great deal about how to surf the internet--and I learned in a hurry, I might add--I have learned a great deal about myself. Some of it is good; some, not so good.

I congratulate all of you on your dedication to AP and the other natural philosophies you share and put to good practice. I know you are all good and caring mothers.

Again, thank you for your time. It has been a truly amazing experience.
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#81 of 97 Old 06-03-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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I hope we were all able to help you. I hope you have peace in what ever you decide.If you do chose to have your baby, you will learn a bunch about being a parent here at MDC.

Kaitlin
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#82 of 97 Old 06-04-2006, 06:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar
I don't want anyone believing that they are aborting a baby who would be unwanted - I want him or her.

dar
I agree,


Every child is a wanted child, if not by the birth parents,
then by some other couple who has a void in their life
that can only be filled by a child.
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#83 of 97 Old 06-04-2006, 06:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACesPlace
I am very serious about this, very serious, this is no joke. Would you please tell me why you would want to have a child? Here's my situation in a nutshell.

I am now in the position where I am going to have to have another termination, which is fine with me, but the father is a great guy and I can't tell him about it. He has two kids, loves them, and will flip out. He agreed that we will not have a child, due to my age, but that was before this took place. He will want it, and I can't handle it. I would rather shoot myself quickly than be pregnant or go through labor. The whole thing makes me sick. I love him and I feel badly for him, though.



Maybe there is something about this I don't understand. I never did understand it, but then again, with the first termination my then-husband didn't want it, either. I didn't think twice about this question. We divorced for reasons other than the termination.

Maybe you can help me understand why you would do this to your bodies and lives. I guess I missed something somewhere.

Good luck to all of you with your pregnancies!:
This is saddest post I have ever read, my heart aches for you.

You are right, there really is something that you don't understand.




You mention how scared you are of pain/suffering: no one ever said that life will be pain free, physical or emotional.
Ironically thought, it is the those things for which we have suffered the most that are the most valuable in our life and that transform us from the very core in our spirit.



I have four wonderful children, and I have puked my way through all the 3 years total of my life that I have spent pregnant, I have surfed the contractions of labour and pushed four beautiful lives into this world, and I would do it all again.




Having children is an investment, not one of the financial kind, but an investment in your life.

Think of this; when you will be old, and you are suffering from an ageing body, who will be there for you? When you are on your death bed, as all of us will be one day, what would you think about your life?

As Antoine de St-Exupery said in "The Little Prince" : "It is the time that you have lost for your rose that makes your rose so important".
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#84 of 97 Old 06-04-2006, 07:15 PM
 
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yeah, you just don't understand and you really shouldn't have kids.

Quote:
why do these people want to have children, be pregnant, deal with the problems, pee themselves for the rest of their lives, vomit for months on end, and then deal with labor?
1. i never wanted children originally BUT...
2. at the time that i got pregnant with my son, i was a pro-ilfe activist, and so i kept him and dealt with pregnancy.... and i realized i LOVED being pregnant, and despite the pain of labor i gladly and joyfully did it again. and if i had the emotional strength + financial resources i honestly wouldn't have minded having LOTS more.
3. i'm offended that you think mothers "pee themselves for the rest of their lives." kegels were invented for a reason, yk. and i haven't peed myself since i was 5 years old.
4. and "vomit for months on end" doesn't happen all that frequently; more often, women deal with a much more mild form of morning sickness, and some don't have any.

you say you don't know any women who would do it again.... well, then i have to say that you're among the wrong crew to be posing this question. i think most women on these forum WOULD do it again. ethically though i believe it is more important to give homes to children who are in the adoption system, which is why i personally chose to get sterilized. but i honestly did love being pregnant, and i loved giving birth, even though it was hard. my daughter's birth was one of the most beautiful, transformational experiences of my liffe.

i can see though that it's not right for you.

i have to ask ~~ if you knew you felt this strongly about never wanting children, why did you keep yourself fertile? why not get your tubes tied? it seems irresponsible to me when you knew you never wanted children, and especially after having already had one abortion....
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#85 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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Why did I want children? Wow...that's just such a huge question...

When I was a teenager, I didn't want kids. All my friends used to talk about them, but I wasn't interested. They seemed like such a huge imposition on my life. Then, when I was about 18, I found myself staring at cute kids in the stores and on the street, and thinking, "I want one" all the time. I never really thought about why.

I had a terrific first pregnancy - no morning sickness, no blotches, no weird aches (except once when I got stuck leaned over). My skin glowed...I felt absolutely gorgeous - more beautiful than I ever have before or since. I was hyped about labour, and was in my element. One of my friends called me "the Earth Mother", which was kind of funny, as it was just so NOT me. Another friend noticed that my emotional ups and downs - moodiness - evaporated when I was pregnant. Pregnancy lent me emotional stability and put me on an even keel - I was mellow.

Then, at the end, my son was taken from me by "emergency" c-section. It was horrible - it really was. I woke up drugged, and didn't know where I was or why I was there. Then, on my way to the maternity ward after recovery, they placed my son beside me on the gurney in the hallway...just for a few seconds. There are no words on this earth to explain how I felt when I touched his little cheek and he opened those big eyes and looked at me...he knew who I was, and I'd never felt so totally in love, so committed, so in awe of another human being in my life. That moment was pure and total magic.

I can't really imagine what it feels like to be pregnant with a baby you don't want. After my first, it took me ten years to have another one...monthly heartbreak when I had a period...hours and hours of tears with each of my three miscarriages...then, finally I had my daughter, and now I know what a miracle really is. I'd almost given up, and there she was - another baby to fall in love with at first sight. Then, ds2...a third. I never did have morning sickness, and never did have the aches and pains, aside from a mild bout of sciatica at the beginning of my pregnancy with my youngest.

There's pure magic in feeling your baby fall asleep in your arms.

There's no feeling in the world like nursing a baby while it rests its hand on your breast, or holds onto your finger, and stares into your eyes.

There's no...recognition in the world like when your new baby first opens its eyes, and knows you.

Watching them grow and develop as people is a privilege and a joy. Watching those little minds soak up ideas and knowledge is inspiring.

The feeling of belonging to a family - our family...vacations, Christmas morning, rolling around on the floor with kids climbing on me, teaching them ABC's, counting, yoga, cooking, etc., etc., etc., etc. It's...a trip...

I don't know exactly why I wanted children - I think it may have been because I wanted to see the world through their eyes again. I was cynical and somewhat jaded by the time I was 15 (drugs, alcohol, sexual abuse, bullying, etc., etc.), and I think I wanted some of that childhood wonder back. I got it...but I got sooooo much more...

I want one more - four children sounds about right to me...

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#86 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 07:39 PM
 
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I'm going to step out on a limb here, and really expose myself, ACe.

I have also had a termination many years ago when I was a teenager. It wasn't what I wanted, I was very much coerced into it, and I think about that baby daily, even now, when I have a live babe in my arms. I'm accutely aware of what I gave up, and regret it.

Abortion is something that touches many peoples lives - depending on the statistic you beleive, it's reported that almost half of US women under the age of 45 have had at least one termination. It's a taboo subject, and as a result, many women suffer with the aftermath in silence.

Maybe I'm putting my feelings into your posts, but your prior termination does seem to affect how you feel about children - it did for me, but in the opposite way. Either way, it's not healthy. I saw someone has posted a link to Rachel's Vineyard, a retreat for post abortive women. I have never been on one, but understand it to be of a Christian POV. If this isn't your cup of tea, there are non-biased support groups.

If you so desire, check out www.afterabortion.com or the messageboards that go with it www.passboards.org They don't support abortion, it is not a pro-choice website, nor a pro-life one. It's just support from women who know the hurt.

Good luck with your choice. It's not an easy one, but no one needs to tell you that, I'm sure.
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#87 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 09:44 PM
 
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well i could say so much but there are a couple of things that I really want to say in regards to the OP's pov.

1.) i love my children. I love being pregnant (sometimes) i don't love giving birth (who does?) but it gets the baby outside.

2.) I don't like other people's children. they are loud and I don't know them and they seem to be alien or monsters. not that they are just that I personally do not like anyone who i am not around a lot.

3.) I seem to remember you saying something about kids not giving anything back...I would like to question teh parenting practices of the parents of the kids who don't show any affection for their parents...my son is almost 15mos and he shows me daily how much he loves me. its precious little compared to the sheer amount of energy (physical, emotional and mental) that motherhood takes out of me but i am a SINGLE mother and so am doing it all alone.

4.) i second also the PP who said what she did about abuse. i never considered this but i never wanted a daughter and perhaps my past abuses is part of that. I don't know I ended up with both boys so its a nonissue.

oh also i'm looking at having my wisdom teeth pulled (4) and cavities filled (4) and i really would prefer to give birth then go through that. even knowing i won't feel anything.

Jami (25) Roland (27) & Caleb (5), Jacob (3.5) , Kaitlyn (2)
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#88 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 11:22 PM
 
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i don't generally like other people's children either. shhhh! :
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#89 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 11:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klothos
i don't generally like other people's children either. shhhh! :
i don't know anyone who likes other peoples children. no one i know likes my child. why? because he is MY child and not theirs. *shrugs*

Jami (25) Roland (27) & Caleb (5), Jacob (3.5) , Kaitlyn (2)
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#90 of 97 Old 06-05-2006, 11:55 PM
 
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Yeah, I've never liked other people's kids either (and I used to be a nanny, scary, I know!).

Holly, eternally in love partners.gif with Kolby, Raising Juelie Anise (10y), Behnjamin Shen (6y), and Coen Syaoran (4y). Expecting June 2013 2ndtri.gif

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