I just saw the most horrible thing ever - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 10:46 AM
 
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I don't know, is a cs really any more violent than any other surgery that cuts through multiple layers of the body? I'm guessing I'd be just as distrubed watching open heart surgery as a cs, but knowing myself, I'm not about to watch either.
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#62 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 11:03 AM
 
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As others have mentioned, a cesearean section is MAJOR surgery.
Naw, not according to the surgeon in that video. It's just a "common procedure."

I don't think that video shows typical c-section doctor behaviour, from what others have said. I didn't witness my own, but DH did. He also went through nursing school. And when he watched that video with me last night, he was pretty shocked at how rough they were. He said they weren't at all like that at mine. And mine was an emergency c-section, that went quite quickly. But as shown in the photo I posted earlier, they took a moment to allow a couple photos to be taken, as she was being born. It was the one redeeming thing in the loss of my "perfect" birth. I was still able to get a photo, and they knew that was important to me.

The treatment of the baby really freaked me out. I'm sure parts of it are pretty typical. But just how the doctor was so calm and cool about saying "It takes them a few minutes to adjust to the outside world, it's a big change" as they're shoving tubes down the baby's throat and vigerously rubbing her down.
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#63 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 12:03 PM
 
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I didn't watch it, but by your descriptions it sounds like what I experienced.

I remember yelling out that I was going to fall off the table because of the force they were using. I felt my torso lift off the table up and down as I was puking my brains out I told the anesthesiologist that I thought I was dying and he adjusted the meds.

I feel very hurt, scarred, violated by it all. My water was broken while I was 1cm dialated at noon and then I was told if I haden't delivered by 7pm it would have to be a section.

I am praying that I can bring this new little one into the world naturally.
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#64 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 12:09 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MiamiMami
I feel very hurt, scarred, violated by it all. My water was broken while I was 1cm dialated at noon and then I was told if I haden't delivered by 7pm it would have to be a section.

I am praying that I can bring this new little one into the world naturally.
I think you were very lucky to have had a C/S. I truly believe that my daughter would still bew here today if I was given one....my water had been broken for almost 32 hours before I gave birth, as well with Meconium.....but that's a whole other story

In a heartbeat I would have subjected myself to feeling, hurt, scarred, and violeted, if it meant saving my child. Infact I did feel that way after my vaginal delivery, Alyssa died 16 hours later. Just my opinion.
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#65 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 12:10 PM
 
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Naw, not according to the surgeon in that video. It's just a "common procedure."
just because it's a common procedure doesn't mean its not major. Hip replacements, bypasses, are common and definitely major.
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#66 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kelly81
I think you were very lucky to have had a C/S. I truly believe that my daughter would still bew here today if I was given one....my water had been broken for almost 32 hours before I gave birth, as well with Meconium.....but that's a whole other story

In a heartbeat I would have subjected myself to feeling, hurt, scarred, and violeted, if it meant saving my child. Infact I did fe.el that way after my vaginal delivery, Alyssa died 16 hours later. Just my opinion.
Kelly, I am so very sorry for your loss.

In my situation, my daughter was not in any danger and my water had only been broken for 7 hours with no meconium. I just feel that my labor was very mismanaged with no regards for my wishes of a natural or at least vaginal birth.

I am sorry if I unintentionally hurt you by posting my story.
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#67 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Finch
I dunno. I didn't watch. I do that for a living, no need to watch as far as I'm concerned. What's your computer saying?
You do c-sections for a living or you watch them?
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#68 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mahdokht
You do c-sections for a living or you watch them?
I'm a labor and delivery nurse. I watch them.
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#69 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MiamiMami
Kelly, I am so very sorry for your loss.

In my situation, my daughter was not in any danger and my water had only been broken for 7 hours with no meconium. I just feel that my labor was very mismanaged with no regards for my wishes of a natural or at least vaginal birth.

I am sorry if I unintentionally hurt you by posting my story.
No problem..I know I shouldn't take things personally here..but I just can't help it. Thank you for you kind words about my daughter.

It just reminded me of a situation with a friend of mine..we were due a week apart. I delivered first and Alyssa died...she delivered a week later and went through labor, but ended up with a C/S, a horrible one at that... and she kept complaining about how "This was not her ideal birth, this isn't the way I wanted to birth my first child" All I could say was..."Yeah well your child is alive isn't he?"

I guess my point is...C/S are a little scary, maybe violent sometimes, but they are nessacary. It doesn't matter how a child is brought into this world, women should consider themselves lucky and be greatful that they can hold their living child.
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#70 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:28 PM
 
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Kelly, I'm not familiar with your daughter's story, but I'm so sorry for your loss.
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#71 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:35 PM
 
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I think Kelly's and MiamiMiami's experiences show that labor can be mismanaged in both directions.

Sorry about your, and everyone else's, losses--whether of child or positive birth experience.


"What will you do once you know?"
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#72 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:45 PM
 
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#73 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 01:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by a-sorta-fairytale
I thought the very rough yanking of the baby was a bit vulgar. I didnt see him interact with the mother at all. HE just seemed "off" to me. Like she wasnt a real person. Even the ob who did my cs talked to me a few times explaining things like "okay now i am about to take your baby out. Her head is out." And that baby seemed to be really roughly handled. Couldnt they have waited for this new tiny being to be held for a bit before checking her leg movement and hip rotation. I understand the need to get her pinked up but the other stuff could have waited.
AND if this is how he appears while on camera i cant imagine how he would be without people watching.
I haven't watched the video,no interest in seeing another one. But sometimes medicine isn't "nice" or "gentle". When a life is on the line, what may look like unnecessary roughness or yanking is just the docoter needing to get to something NOW. Frankly, I think some people are a little too obsessed with the birth experience. Yes, it would be nice if everyone had a wonderful,peaceful,gentle birthing story. In the long run,though,if I were faced with a doc chit chatting or getting the baby out and me stitched up, I'll take the quickie,thanks.
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#74 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kelly81
No problem..I know I shouldn't take things personally here..but I just can't help it. Thank you for you kind words about my daughter.

It just reminded me of a situation with a friend of mine..we were due a week apart. I delivered first and Alyssa died...she delivered a week later and went through labor, but ended up with a C/S, a horrible one at that... and she kept complaining about how "This was not her ideal birth, this isn't the way I wanted to birth my first child" All I could say was..."Yeah well your child is alive isn't he?"

I guess my point is...C/S are a little scary, maybe violent sometimes, but they are nessacary. It doesn't matter how a child is brought into this world, women should consider themselves lucky and be greatful that they can hold their living child.
The fact is, many, many c-sections are completely arbitrary and completely unnecessary. I am really, truly sorry that you have endured the horror of having your sweet baby die (truly, I am - there are no words - I can only pray to never experience that kind of pain, mama), but someday I hope you are able to see that minimizing another woman's traumatic experience with a "well, at least your baby is alive" type of reaction does not help you heal or the other mama. Love and healing to you.
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#75 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by prettypaws
I haven't watched the video,no interest in seeing another one. But sometimes medicine isn't "nice" or "gentle". When a life is on the line, what may look like unnecessary roughness or yanking is just the docoter needing to get to something NOW. Frankly, I think some people are a little too obsessed with the birth experience. Yes, it would be nice if everyone had a wonderful,peaceful,gentle birthing story. In the long run,though,if I were faced with a doc chit chatting or getting the baby out and me stitched up, I'll take the quickie,thanks.
See he was still chit chatting but just not to the mother. Yes it was a video for education but i would hope he would want to show a more personal touch. I guess no matter what i am doing in a job i still try to treat the other person with respect. It is just as easy to say "molly here comes your babys feet." as it is to say "now its feet are being delivered"

And i dont feel "obsessed" with the experience but i think it is sad that things could be better and should be better but no one really cares. This is the first feeling this little person gets. Being yanked on and put on a scale then scrubbed, tubes shoved down her throat, poked, blood drawn, burning crap put into her eyes. And i dont ind it acceptable when people circ and say "well they are little they wont remember anymore than i think it is okay to be really rough with a newborn because "hey they wont remember"
This is their FIRST experience out of the womb. I dont spank my dd because she wont remember. I treat her with repect. I have friends who have dementia and alzheimers and dont remember a thing. I could be really mean to them too because WHO CARES they wont remember. No i treat them with gentleness becasue that is how life desrves to be treated. I think all life is sacred and i dont think mistreatment is EVER okay.

I do feel it was nicer for my friend who recently had a baby. She was in the water and pushed her sons head out. They waited for "the longest 45 seconds in her life" and then she pushed again and the rest of the baby came out into the water. She picked him up and held him. That seems alot nicer to me - no yanking pulling yelling etc. Unfortunately we cannot all have that exerience but i think we should try for gentleness in ANY situation when it is possible.

this video was of a scheduled cs.
During this video the baby is squaling and freaked out and the dr says "she seems to be happy about her birthday today" ??

For the person who wanted to know more about my dd. I cannot give much detail as the hosp is STILL facing trouble because of all the mismanagement form mine and my dds "care" there. But according to the top neurologist in my state dd was damaged by the head yanking. He yanked on her head back and forth in a whipping motion so hard i nearly fell off the table - i am not a small person. He reufsed to open any of the incisions wider to get more space instead he just kept yanking and yanking for over 10 minutes...
I cannot say more but that is a part of it.

My dd was hurt, i was hurt. But we are both alive. Would i do it again if i HAD to - YES! Will i be happy about it? NO!
I dont think ANYONE has to be happy about it. I dont begrudge the person who had a cs and a healthy child if they are sad about the cs. To me the MOTHER matters too. I want a healthy mother and healthy baby.

It was the worst thing i have ever seen. I dont work in a hosp, or on roadside accidents. I dont see stuff like that everyday and it was shocking to see how it really is. I was horrified and i was sad for the baby. Does that mean i HATE moms who are happy about thier cs? no. I think we each have a RIGHT to our feelings and i felt horrified and scared and sick watching it.

If a mom who has a quick waterbirth is sad becasue it was too quick to really get into it i respect thse feelings too. Would i have killed for her birth - yes. But to her it was not nice and was scary and i have no right to try and guilt her because she "should be grateful". You can always find someone who is better off or worse off than you. Anyhow, i hope i have given enough info to be raked over the coals again...this is totally exfoliating.
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#76 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by dove
The fact is, many, many c-sections are completely arbitrary and completely unnecessary. I am really, truly sorry that you have endured the horror of having your sweet baby die (truly, I am - there are no words - I can only pray to never experience that kind of pain, mama), but someday I hope you are able to see that minimizing another woman's traumatic experience with a "well, at least your baby is alive" type of reaction does not help you heal or the other mama. Love and healing to you.
Yes, thank you. You have much more eloquence than i do.
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#77 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:33 PM
 
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thank you dove.
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#78 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MiamiMami
I feel very hurt, scarred, violated by it all. My water was broken while I was 1cm dialated at noon and then I was told if I haden't delivered by 7pm it would have to be a section.

I am praying that I can bring this new little one into the world naturally.
Wow, that really sucks! My water broke at 4 in the morning, I had meconium, and the baby didn't end up being born until almost 7 that evening. I was lucky, I think, in that my regular OB wasn't on call, and the OB I got was much more laid back about the whole process. At one point they told me her heart rate showed she was getting tired after the contractions, so they would have to give me oxygen. They never even mentioned a c-section. I honestly don't think I realized at the time that I was fortunate. My birth was very medicalized, but I didn't have an episiotomy or surgery, thank goodness.
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#79 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:48 PM
 
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#80 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by dove
The fact is, many, many c-sections are completely arbitrary and completely unnecessary. I am really, truly sorry that you have endured the horror of having your sweet baby die (truly, I am - there are no words - I can only pray to never experience that kind of pain, mama), but someday I hope you are able to see that minimizing another woman's traumatic experience with a "well, at least your baby is alive" type of reaction does not help you heal or the other mama. Love and healing to you.
Thank you for the kind words about losing my daughter but....but I do think that maybe you are a little confused by my "At least your child is alive" comment I was in no way looking to heal myself or her. Negative comments don't heal, I know that. I guess after having a loss, I truly believe that the most "traumic" birth experience is only when a child dies. I am sure most bereaved mothers can relate. If you've never lost a child, you have no idea where I am coming from. (Not just you, but anyone) To me, I'd take the violent, violated experiances over and over if it meant having living child.

I guess I was shocked that my friend would go on and on about her "horrible c/s" and how "this wasn't her ideal birth" to someone who just lost a child. It was selfish and yes, she should have been greatful that he lived and I had every right to tell her so.

A loss just takes away the blissful ignorance of a pregnancy and any future pregnancies.
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#81 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 03:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kelly81
I guess I was shocked that my friend would go on and on about her "horrible c/s" and how "this wasn't her ideal birth" to someone who just lost a child. It was selfish and yes, she should have been greatful that he lived and I had every right to tell her so.
That is rather shocking, in my opinion. It shows a lack of sensitivity. Not that she doesn't have the right to complain about her situation and try and process it, but she had to know that saying these things to you would be very hurtful. I'm so sorry for your loss and for how you were treated afterwards.
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#82 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 03:21 PM
 
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Echoing what Viola said... I can remember feeling sad that Joe was born at 3:09 & I did not wake up to see him until 7 that evening- then I read about mamas here whose babies were stillborn... it put it into perspective for me- & TO ME- the four hours I missed, the fact that I did not have the peaceful natural birth I expected to have- that is all trumped by the fact that I came home with my child.
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#83 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 03:34 PM
 
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kelly81, you may not necessarily be looking for a healing experience, but sometimes they come with no warning or pretense. I'm not confused - I do know deep, deep loss, just not in the same way as you, however.
I will continue to wish you much healing in this matter, and lots of love to all of the other mamas who have had a traumatic birth or non-ideal birth.
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#84 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 03:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kelly81
It just reminded me of a situation with a friend of mine..we were due a week apart. I delivered first and Alyssa died...she delivered a week later and went through labor, but ended up with a C/S, a horrible one at that... and she kept complaining about how "This was not her ideal birth, this isn't the way I wanted to birth my first child" All I could say was..."Yeah well your child is alive isn't he?"
s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.

, , , mama to Ross , Reagan (8/29/05), Joshua (from Haiti...here NOW due to the earthquake!), and Elijah , born safely 9-8-09.
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#85 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 04:07 PM
 
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s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.


I am with you 100% No one truly understands what it's like to lose a child, unless they've experienced it..and when you have, you know there is nothing on this earth that is worse than that kind of pain.

Thank you to Viola and Joesmom for understandig where I am coming from.

Dove, thank for you well wishes.

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#86 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 04:29 PM
 
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I can't imagine the pain of losing a child. I'm so sorry to all the mamas who have had that happen to them.


That said...

I always dreamed of homebirths. I had 4 c/sections. Maybe I could have possibly had a vaginal birth with one or more of them, but I took the risks as too high and had scheduled/non-emergency c/sections with them instead. That way, we knew when they were coming, and there were lots of people prepared to help if need be, and even if I died, I knew my baby would be okay. I calculated my risks, and had pretty good births. I would so much rather be cut open than risk my babies. SO MUCH.

My first was 42 weeks and 9.5 lbs. I have a weird angle to my pelvis. There was a pretty decent chance he was going to get stuck. They even did a vertical incision so they wouldn't have to fight to get him out of my tummy. His head was 15" and his chest was 14.75". #2 was breech-butt first. #3 had very low fluid and some other problems. #4 well, I just wasn't willing to risk the previous incisions coming undone.

I love my birth experiences. I would do it again if my body could handle it...and again...and again.

Now I read a thread that shows a relatively average c/section, (some are more gentle, sure, as emergency ones are a lot less laid-back) and something I have had done 4 times and have been the way my beautiful children have come into the world is being called "the worst thing" someone has ever seen. Worse than anything else....ever seen....ever.

I guess to me it's like someone going into my old neighborhood and calling it the slums when I had a wonderful childhood growing up there.

I'm sorry your experience was so traumatic.

I can't put my finger on it...but it's bugging me.
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#87 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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Goodness, if you think that was violent then don't ever watch a video of open heart surgery! They basically band-saw your chest open and crank it apart. I've never really heard of a gentle or peaceful surgery process, and a C-section is major surgery so there you go.
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#88 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 05:28 PM
 
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For the person who wanted to know more about my dd. I cannot give much detail as the hosp is STILL facing trouble because of all the mismanagement form mine and my dds "care" there. But according to the top neurologist in my state dd was damaged by the head yanking. He yanked on her head back and forth in a whipping motion so hard i nearly fell off the table - i am not a small person. He reufsed to open any of the incisions wider to get more space instead he just kept yanking and yanking for over 10 minutes...
I cannot say more but that is a part of it.
OMG, that is horrifying.

Thank you for sharing what I know must be very difficult to talk about. I have truly always wondered what the baby would possibly die of or be permanently damaged from during a c-section. I can see if the baby is delivered too early (which happens way more than it should with scheduled c-sections), is having breathing issues that are likely NOT life threatening, however then they end up in the NICU with all the germs and such, and I can see how a baby might end up with some infection that kills them.

Other than that though, I just have never heard of anything worse than a baby being cut during a section. While I certainly don't want my baby to be cut, it's not life threatening by any stretch of the imagination.

But this with yanking on her poor little head instead of extending the incisions is awful. One of the biggest advantages of a c-section is you CAN make the exit space bigger, something that is a lot harder to do with vaginal delivery where you're dealing with pelvic bones if baby is stuck.

Cut me in frickin half if you must, but to yank on the baby's head like that when a bigger incision would have likely solved the problem? That makes NO sense whatsoever, and I truly hope that doctor loses his butt over your daughter's birth. You'd think with 30% of all babies being born by section, it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to cut the hole bigger if necessary.
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#89 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 05:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HoosierDiaperinMama
s
I soooo hear ya, mama. I have had to bite my tongue many times here and IRL when I read about mourning a birth b/c it didn't go the way the mama planned. How about the mamas who are mourning b/c their babe is dead? It takes a lot of restraint not to completely lash out.
You know, one would think that people would consider their audience when talking about something that is bothering them. It just seems so.....well, obvious.

It happens in all areas of life, and it amazes me. I mean, it's one thing if you've lost a child and you are lurking around on birth story boards where people are trying to process a difficult birth. But these conversations IRL where moms are complaining about their 'less than perfect' births to another mom who JUST lost her baby during birth? That is SO not appropriate.

I am currently pg with #4, a complete surprise that we were not absolutely thrilled about and are still working through the idea of adding a new baby to the family. We obviously will love this baby, of that I have no doubt. And I *am* getting more excited as the weeks pass (I am now 12+ weeks).

Anyhow, there are two girls on another board I post on that were due within a week of me, both dearly wanted to be pg. Both miscarried recently, and it just seems so unfair, ya know? I cannot *imagine* posting things knowing they will see the posts about how tiresome the all day sickness is or how we are still struggling some days to come to terms with the huge change our family is about to experience. That would be incredibly insensitive IMO, even though my feelings are perfectly valid and it is OK for me to feel this way.

It seems like it shouldn't take a genius to figure out there are times where it's just not appropriate to complain, whine, whatever over a situation when the person you are complaining to would dearly LOVE to take your place.
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#90 of 158 Old 06-06-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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