I just saw the most horrible thing ever - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 06:16 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly81
Lighten up, C/S's are not the end of the world.
I repeat: you continue to discount the feelings of mamas who have legitimate grief over their births by comparing your situation to theirs.


Of course not all c-sections are violent and traumatic, whether necessary, emergent, or elective. Some operative births are beautiful, wonderful, best for baby and mama. Some are not. Some are performed with the intent to save a life or lives, some are not. Some are performed by surgeons that have loving and caring and healing hands and a nice bedside manner, some are not. Some are exactly the way mama envisioned her birth, some are not. When they are not, mama has to somehow align the birth outcome with her feelings of (fill in the blank)....and when that happens, she needs support in getting through her feelings of (xyz) and out to the other side to feel complete as a woman and somehow not failed, inadequate, or less of a woman than someone who has a good experience (vag or c-sec).
dove is offline  
#122 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 06:32 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly81
Yadi Yadi Yadda....

Of course now the OP has changed the first post..how convient.

I am not sorry for the people that whine about their birth not being "ideal", because yes, it could have been worse. Their child could have been born with developmental problems or died.

I also tried to give some perspective, but for the most part, most don't want to hear it. They think I am playing some sort of game.

For the record, rape and murder are NOWHERE near the same content as a loss or horrible C/S. I don't know how anyone in their right mind would believe so.

Lighten up, C/S's are not the end of the world.

If you reply simply to bash me, don't bother, I will not read it.

:

I am glad there were a few women on here that "Get it"
I'm sorry, but I have got to call you out on this one - while I feel incredibly sorry that you lost a child, it does not really give you the right to be so incredibly horrid to the rest of the posters here.
who's bashing who?
dove is offline  
#123 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 06:33 PM
 
Peppermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: work-in-progress
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
I'm sorry, but I have got to call you out on this one - while I feel incredibly sorry that you lost a child, it does not really give you the right to be so incredibly horrid to the rest of the posters here.
who's bashing who?
Dove- she's gone

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
Peppermint is offline  
#124 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 06:39 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I know, I know - I am just infuriated. : Deepest apologies.

eta - actually, I am dismayed. I'm on mdc, right? Now that we are all walking around on eggshells and quantifying grief we can't seem to have an honest, disclaimer free discussion. Why can't we seem to talk about birth and violence and how that makes a woman feel?
dove is offline  
#125 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 06:57 PM
 
KayleeZoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,546
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I can totally see where someone might find their C/S (or vaginal birth, in many cases) to be violent and horrible. But (after having 2 really good birth experiences and one really scary one that left me w/lasting neurological damage from an epidural) I just can't see where the worst birth experience in the world is as bad as losing your baby. NOTHING that could have happened to me (or that did) during my dc's births could compare to holding my dead baby, thinking of all that could have been. And I can only speculate, but am pretty sure that working through the horrible emotional pain of having a negative birth experience would be easier when you get to see your dc's face every day, snuggle them close, nurse them to sleep, than it would be to have to work through that pain associated with a bad birth experience AND deal with the fact that your child is dead, too.

I'm not trying to minimize anything that has happened to anyone, but truly, if your child is alive and well, (OP, I'm sorry that your dd was hurt during her birth. I have heard so many horrid things about UNM hospital I'm sure it makes your experience doubly hard to deal with) things really COULD be worse.

Half-marathon running Mommy to 3 spunky girls and 1 sweet boy. Spending my days and nights where my kids need me most- at home with them!!

KayleeZoo is offline  
#126 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 07:12 PM
 
Viola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nevada
Posts: 23,373
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly81
For the record, rape and murder are NOWHERE near the same content as a loss or horrible C/S. I don't know how anyone in their right mind would believe so.
Respectfully, I honestly don't believe she was saying that rape and murder were comparable to a c-section. She was demonstrating the hierarchy of bad things and how something can always be worse. So if you are raped and you try to deal with that pain, having someone say you could have been murdered so you should be grateful might feel dismissive.

That might not seem like a good comparison because some raped people wish they were dead and kill themselves afterwards. But I think in some cases women are aware they could be killed and try to preserve their life and then later feel guilty, as if they should have done more to help themselves.

People are going to have bad feelings about things that happen to them, no matter how much worse things could be. That is just human nature. I also think it is human nature when your own emotions are stretched to the breaking point that you retreat into yourself and try and recover. We will not have huge reserves of compassion in ourselves when we are so hurt ourselves--I think that is protective. I know that when I was in the open wound, my world is forever changed stage of grief, the things that had formerly moved me to tears left me dry-eyed and untouched. Eventually my capacity for empathy for more situations came back.

I don't know why a friend would feel the need to lay her sadness about having a c-section onto someone who just lost a baby and would give anything to have a c-section so she could have her child. I wouldn't be able to be around her or talk about that issue with her. I would also feel angry, like she was trying to tell me I was wrong for how I was feeling while expecting compassion for herself.

At the same time, I am not happy with the medical establishment's attitude about c-sections and how some doctors unncessarily play on the fears of parents who are trying to make an educated decision.
Viola is offline  
#127 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 07:34 PM
 
MiamiMami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW FL
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
I repeat: you continue to discount the feelings of mamas who have legitimate grief over their births by comparing your situation to theirs.
Dove...thank you. Words seem to come easily to you.

Mamas who have lost a child....I am so sorry.

I had many family members and friends tell me to get over my c-section trauma. It didn't help me at all. Its something I find very difficult to explain and the feelings have gotten stronger since I've become pregnant. I think I'll take this over to the vbac forum and look for some support there.

Really, I just want to the medical community to respect women's minds and bodies as well as the babies they help deliver.
MiamiMami is offline  
#128 of 158 Old 06-07-2006, 08:00 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
hugs, miamimami. You should be able to talk about it here - that's what I am trying to advocate (the right to feel this pain). I'm so sorry that the people (friends/ fam members) around you are so insensitive or just refuse to understand.
I can see why being pregnant again would make those feelings come up.

I am a mother who has carried life and given birth, and I am also a healthcare worker.
My wish is also that all hcw's would respect birth and choices and hear women out and treat us and our births (and our newborns) as the sacred beings/events that they are. Keep talking, keep advocating for gentle birth! Don't push down your feelings, let them be heard. If they are pushed down for you (eg, told not to whine about your experience, by other women or family or friends or nurses, or docs) and never let out, things will never change. We will never be able to birth with the freedom of knowing that no matter how we do it, we will be attended in the most tender and sacred way possible.
That is why, to me, this issue is so important and deserves so much care.
dove is offline  
#129 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
a-sorta-fairytale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hangin' with the raisin girls
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amylcd
I see both sides. I can see why she would think it's the "most horrible thing ever" after reading her story.

I'm an elective c/s mama, and I think it's a wonderful thing. Especially for those who need it.

I was raped, and it was a very traumatic experience for me. If I had to watch that, I would feel the same way the OP is feeling about the c/s video.
YES! this is so true. If i had to watch my rape (which btw FOR ME was less traumatic than my cs) I think i would feel just as ill.
a-sorta-fairytale is offline  
#130 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
a-sorta-fairytale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hangin' with the raisin girls
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola
Respectfully, I honestly don't believe she was saying that rape and murder were comparable to a c-section. She was demonstrating the hierarchy of bad things and how something can always be worse. So if you are raped and you try to deal with that pain, having someone say you could have been murdered so you should be grateful might feel dismissive.
At the same time, I am not happy with the medical establishment's attitude about c-sections and how some doctors unncessarily play on the fears of parents who are trying to make an educated decision.
Yes, that is what i was saying that this pissing contest of "who has it worst is not helpful to ANYONE...EVER"

And seeing how this surgery is and some of the stupid things they said in the video is just another reason to be mad for all those OTHER MOTHERS who have cs unecessarily.
a-sorta-fairytale is offline  
#131 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
a-sorta-fairytale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hangin' with the raisin girls
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayleeZoo
I can totally see where someone might find their C/S (or vaginal birth, in many cases) to be violent and horrible. But (after having 2 really good birth experiences and one really scary one that left me w/lasting neurological damage from an epidural) I just can't see where the worst birth experience in the world is as bad as losing your baby. NOTHING that could have happened to me (or that did) during my dc's births could compare to holding my dead baby, thinking of all that could have been. And I can only speculate, but am pretty sure that working through the horrible emotional pain of having a negative birth experience would be easier when you get to see your dc's face every day, snuggle them close, nurse them to sleep, than it would be to have to work through that pain associated with a bad birth experience AND deal with the fact that your child is dead, too.

I'm not trying to minimize anything that has happened to anyone, but truly, if your child is alive and well, (OP, I'm sorry that your dd was hurt during her birth. I have heard so many horrid things about UNM hospital I'm sure it makes your experience doubly hard to deal with) things really COULD be worse.

I certainly think losing ones child is worse but again this discussion was never about that - i was floored when it became "stop whining it could be worse"

And we were at pres which has 2 diferent actions being taken right now for my treatment with the cs and subsequent treatment with my mc.
a-sorta-fairytale is offline  
#132 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
a-sorta-fairytale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Hangin' with the raisin girls
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly81
I am now done as well. For good this time.

What started all of this was the original post. It stated that this c/s video was horrible and that the OP almost threw up. Yadi Yadi Yadda.... Of course now the OP has changed the first post..how convient. In the first post there was no mention of how horrible her c/s was and the pain it caused her and her daughter. Had all of that been mentioned in the begining I feel this thread wouldn't have taken on the direction it did. And I am truly sorry for what she and her daugther endured or anyone that lost a child or anoyne else whos child suffered from a violent birth. I am not sorry for the people that whine about their birth not being "ideal", because yes, it could have been worse. Their child could have been born with developmental problems or died.

I also tried to give some perspective, but for the most part, most don't want to hear it. They think I am playing some sort of game.

For the record, rape and murder are NOWHERE near the same content as a loss or horrible C/S. I don't know how anyone in their right mind would believe so.

Lighten up, C/S's are not the end of the world.

If you reply simply to bash me, don't bother, I will not read it.

:

I am glad there were a few women on here that "Get it"
I know this poster is not on this thread any longer but thsi is the attitude i am talking about really hurting other moms. I know moms who had vag births but didnt like some small amount. It does not DAMAGE me in ANY way to hear them complain - it is their pain their feelings and they have a right to feel that way.

I think it is aweful to say to someone "cs are not the end of the world" "mc is not the end of the world" it is the same thing. Discounting someones feelings is wrong.

I feel all the moms with cs and perfectly healhty babies have JUST AS MUCH RIGHT AS I TO COMPLAIN. I think ALL feelings are valid no matter what.

AS for changing my op - i ONLY added the disclaimer with a very visable ETA i left ALL of my other words intact to keep the integrety of the original post without having to make every other poster look at all my replies.

The worst thing my dd has seen is me with a bloody nose - i dont say "oh you fricken crybaby its just a bloody nose - you could have seen me shot!"
No, i understand her fears are just as valid as mine.
a-sorta-fairytale is offline  
#133 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 10:58 AM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
: This entire thread, to me,sucks. I have worked very hard over the past 3 years to overcome the post-traumatic stress of our emergency csection. Also ppd- brought on by the csection. I think the best thing one can do (looking n from the outside- as someone who hasn't had a section) is NOT propagate all this crap... Yah, it sucks. But, it's impossible to move on from it unless we're allowed to embrace the "birth" of our child- regardless of that birth. It took so much for me to stop considering my son "not born" because he came via section. But, the truth is... he WAS BORN. As much as your child was. And the ugly of it all can take place in a vaginal birth too. A docs bedside manner changes per doc- or surgeon. The "roughness" of a csection isn't often remembered... I didn't see a thing. It's just the emotianal anguish after the fact.

Anyway... it's disgusting how often I have to read posts about the inhumanity of csections, etc etc etc.
edamommy is offline  
#134 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:42 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
Anyway... it's disgusting how often I have to read posts about the inhumanity of csections, etc etc etc.
yeah, it's pretty disgusting how many c-sections are unnecessary and the mama has to reconcile the loss of a natural process that given time and help (or no help/intervention perhaps) she could have been perfectly capable of. No wonder you have to read those accounts so disgustingly often.
dove is offline  
#135 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:48 PM
 
Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC!
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finch
I found elements of that "grateful" poem pretty annoying. I don't think of my son as having been simply "removed" from my body. Ya know, just because he wasn't pushed out of my vagina doesn't mean he wasn't birthed. You remove a tumor. You birth a child. My child is not a tumor.

I must say, and I'm sure this will step on some toes but right now frankly my toes are feeling pretty squished....there is an overly pervasive attitude here that c-sections are just flat out evil, and that a woman who has one has failed somehow. Starlets that had c/s for breech delivery (a legit reason to me, having seen gruesome results from vaginal breech deliveries) are raked over the coals for having "unnecessary" surgery. Maybe they felt it was necessary. Maybe the risks of a vaginal breech delivery were too great in their minds. Having a c-section doesn't make you the devil. I had a great c-section and by golly, intend on having repeats with any subsequent children.

So you don't agree with c/s. Fine. But not having pushed a baby out of my vagina does not make me a lesser mother nor does it make me a lesser woman. If a woman chooses UC or HBAC I don't go bashing her for being a reckless nutcase who's endangering her child's life. I swear sometimes I feel the need to put a scarlet "C" on my chest around here.

I just had to get that off my chest, it's been bugging me and festering for quite a while.
I'll just quote myself, as I feel the need to repeat my post.
Finch is offline  
#136 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 12:57 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
No one is lesser for having had a c-section. I am only trying to say that women who feel deep down that theirs was unnecessary or who felt violated or who felt like the experience was violent needs support (if they want it), not words lke "get over it". And that their grief and feelings are VALID!!!!!!!!


my gawd, I repeat - I am on mdc, right???:
dove is offline  
#137 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:01 PM
 
Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC!
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
my gawd, I repeat - I am on mdc, right???:
Are my feelings valid that women who have c-sections are constantly raked over the coals here on blessed MDC? Gimme a freakin' break. Normal posters aren't raked because it's against the UA. But you bet your sweet patootie that any public figure that has a c-section is lambasted. I especially loved the comment that went something like, "can't any of these starlets give birth normally?" The feelings and attitudes are crystal clear. C-section equals failure. Elective c-section means you're in cahoots with satan himself. But my feelings aren't valid because my son's birth goes against the NFL "ideal," whatever that is. It's a pervasive attitude here, and I for one am sick of it.

Again, I need to sew a scarlet C on my chest.
Finch is offline  
#138 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:19 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I really do see what you mean. I see the threads about stars having babies via c-sec and how they are put down, too. I choose not to participate, even though my true feelings are that really when a star chooses to have a c-sec because they feel entitled to not feel the pain of labor, or whatever the non-medical reason may be, I feel sad for them. Sad that they feel entitled and sad that they are not in touch with the power and uber-feminine aspect of birth. (as opposed to the paternalistic ideal of operative birth being superior in a woman who is perfectly capable of a trial of labor).

You are sooooooo not getting me.

I'm not brandishing you or anyone else.
Exactly the opposite. And about the mdc comment - I am wondering where is everyone???? I cannot even believe this topic is going largely undiscussed. Where are the women that have had c-section and are now wondering or hurting? Where are the gentle birth advocates??? Is this topic really that played out? Have we really retreated to our own corners? God, I hope not.
dove is offline  
#139 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:29 PM
 
Peppermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: work-in-progress
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
Is this topic really that played out? Have we really retreated to our own corners? God, I hope not.
Yes, that is EXACTLY what has happened. Women who have c-sections are hurting, sometimes from the c-section itself, sometimes from the remarks made here about their births and assumptions made about the women themselves.

I really don't think this topic can be talked about civily here, mostly b/c lots of women have open wounds on this, and can't talk about it objectively very well (on both sides). I was that way for quite some time, I couldn't stand anyone talking about the high c-section rate, it hurt *me* they didn't mean to, I was just hurting, yk? Now, threads where people openly attack someone for having a c-section b/c that person is a celebrity and they *ass*ume that person didn't feel like laboring or something, well, that is far from what I expect here too.

Too much hurt, that pretty much sums up why I don't think these conversations ever go well here.

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
Peppermint is offline  
#140 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:32 PM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
yeah, it's pretty disgusting how many c-sections are unnecessary and the mama has to reconcile the loss of a natural process that given time and help (or no help/intervention perhaps) she could have been perfectly capable of. No wonder you have to read those accounts so disgustingly often.
eh? How about those sections that are 100% needed to ensure the survival of the child? Why are they not given creedance? Why make this mama feel like SH** for not being able to "preform"? Why cheapen The section-mama's birth experiance? WHY? 'Cause that's what happens to me every time I have to hear the constant section-bashing that happens here.

If I have another child I will anything and everything to not have a csection. yet, I do not want to have to "look down" on my ds's birth in the process.
edamommy is offline  
#141 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:37 PM
 
MiamiMami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW FL
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
I'm not brandishing you or anyone else.
Exactly the opposite. And about the mdc comment - I am wondering where is everyone???? I cannot even believe this topic is going largely undiscussed. Where are the women that have had c-section and are now wondering or hurting? Where are the gentle birth advocates??? Is this topic really that played out? Have we really retreated to our own corners? God, I hope not.
I'm here.
No, I don't think a lot of people have gotten the jist of this thread. Women who have had c-sections are not failures. I don't think I am a failure. I think the medical establishment has failed many women and babies. They keep us selectiveley informed on what our options are...or rather they don't give us any options. There is a lot of de-humanizing going on by the powers that be.
I am perfectly ok with a woman who has chosen an elective c-section who has done her research and come to the decision herself, because that means that she has taken matters into her own hands.
MiamiMami is offline  
#142 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:39 PM
 
MiamiMami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW FL
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
eh? How about those sections that are 100% needed to ensure the survival of the child? Why are they not given creedance? Why make this mama feel like SH** for not being able to "preform"? Why cheapen The section-mama's birth experiance? WHY? 'Cause that's what happens to me every time I have to hear the constant section-bashing that happens here.

If I have another child I will anything and everything to not have a csection. yet, I do not want to have to "look down" on my ds's birth in the process.
Thats why dove specifically said "unnecessary"
MiamiMami is offline  
#143 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:44 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I am very deliberate and careful in my wording. I give what I am writing a lot of thought and have been a "birth the way that is best/safest/insert adjective here" advocate for well over a decade. Both in practice and in word. Please, if you are jumping on me, re-read my statements with care and without feeling personally attacked because you have had a c-section. Thank you and blessings.
dove is offline  
#144 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:50 PM
 
edamommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dove
I am very deliberate and careful in my wording. I give what I am writing a lot of thought and have been a "birth the way that is best/safest/insert adjective here" advocate for well over a decade. Both in practice and in word. Please, if you are jumping on me, re-read my statements with care and without feeling personally attacked because you have had a c-section. Thank you and blessings.
was the video of the csection an unnecessary one? Or, are you all assuming it to be? As usual.
edamommy is offline  
#145 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:50 PM
 
Peppermint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: work-in-progress
Posts: 5,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiMami
I'm here.
No, I don't think a lot of people have gotten the jist of this thread. Women who have had c-sections are not failures. I don't think I am a failure. I think the medical establishment has failed many women and babies. They keep us selectiveley informed on what our options are...or rather they don't give us any options. There is a lot of de-humanizing going on by the powers that be.
I am perfectly ok with a woman who has chosen an elective c-section who has done her research and come to the decision herself, because that means that she has taken matters into her own hands.
Interesting irony here. I am thinking on the subject which is banned here at MDC, another surgical procedure performed on women. Basically, the general attitude is that any talk or questioning of that is innapropriate, most here give any women in *that* situation the benefit of the doubt that she is doing what is right for her self and her body, her body, her choice. And most will deny to the end that the majority are done b/c of outside influence on the woman. Also- if someone dares to speak up saying that they regret *that* surgical procedure or that they are forever harmed by it, she is quickly silenced and met with utter distain for her words about her own experience.

ETA- if I linked to a video of said procedure, people would all assume that was the absolute worse case scenario of it and that in general, they are not that way at all.

:Patty :fireman Catholic, intactalactivist, co-sleeping, GDing, HSing, no-vax Mama to .........................:..........hale:
Peppermint is offline  
#146 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:57 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by edamommy
was the video of the csection an unnecessary one? Or, are you all assuming it to be? As usual.
it's not even really about that (to me). What I have come to in regards to this particular video is that if watching a c-sec gives someone who has had one a visceral, knee jerk reaction of pain and horror over what they themselves (and their babe) has been through, then that mama deserves our support and care, irregardless of our own experiences.
They deserve care and consideration.

please check your venom.
dove is offline  
#147 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 01:58 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Peppermint, your replies are so true. It's really very heartwrenching the way we end up treating each other.
dove is offline  
#148 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 02:05 PM
 
teacup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,464
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I don't normally get involved in threads like this.

Perhaps I don't completely understand. In fact, I'm certain I don't, because I've not had a C-section. However, after reading some of the latest posts in this thread I feel secure suggesting to you, edamommy, that you and dove are on the same side (since sides have been discussed). Sometimes I wonder if the final straw comes along in a relatively unrelated situation and all our feelings are vented in that instance?
teacup is offline  
#149 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 02:06 PM
 
Finch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: NC!
Posts: 9,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sigh. Okay. I've fed my child and been outside for a little bit, now I feel like I can come back to this.

As for the subject of brandishing women who have c-sections here, Dove, I do not think you specifically do that. I see it a lot here, though. Here's an interesting question...has anyone ever thought, for even a minute, that maybe the reason so many women have so much agony and grief over c-sections is because of attitudes like the ones I see so much of here, that c-sections are horrible? Think about it. If all you ever hear from your peers (I consider this my peer group) is how awful c-sections are, and see them blasting women who have c-sections, talking about how awful epidurals and hospital births are, don't you think that gets into your head? Don't you think that those voices and opinions echo in the head and heart of a woman who has an unplanned c-section? If all you ever hear is how awful and abnormal c-sections are, or how violent they are, and then you end up having one, don't you think all of those attitudes of those surrounding you could even slightly contribute to the depression, rage, and grief?

I love natural childbirth. I love it when it works. But sometimes, it doesn't, and as an advocate for women, I think that all women should be able to embrace their child's birth and not be made to feel that they are somehow less because they had a c/s or vacuum assist or epidural or whatever.

My son's birth was an emergency. I imagine it looked pretty "violent," but to me it wasn't. LOTS of time is dedicated here on this board to helping women heal after having a c-section or a less than ideal birth. LOTS. But hardly anyone recognizes the fact that for lots of women, having a c-section was neither violent nor a tragedy, and that we (who feel that way) resent hearing about how awful our child's method of delivery was. Our feelings aren't validated, because a c-section is taboo. How dare we have a good experience? And if we state that we did have a good experience, well then, we just aren't "NFL material."
Finch is offline  
#150 of 158 Old 06-08-2006, 02:24 PM
 
dove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 1,948
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Finch - hmmmm, YES!
thanks for coming back.

I could see how other women talking about how c-sections are horrible, etc, etc could spark feelings of _____ in women who have had a c-section. But, really, c-sections have been normalized in this society and I think what we are seeing is a backlash-type response to that. It really isn't "normal" to have a c-section rate of 30% (and up in some areas). So, I have to wonder that if a woman who has had a section hears this kind of discussion (or any kind of discussion) about c-sections, what is it actually triggering? It is my belief that we all have the innate ability to know what our bodies are capable of or what is right for our body or baby in the circumstance. So, if you having had an emergent/warranted c-section was truly, innately what needed to happen with you and baby to keep one or both of you safe and/or alive, great. But a woman who is rushed along, degraded, treated poorly, whose inner voice is drowned out by loud voices telling her she can't do it ends up with a c-section, she is going to have a hard time reconciling her birth and when she hears others talking about c-sections as generally unnescessary in the average birthing woman, she is going to start to question and hopefully start a process of healing and discovery.
dove is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off