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#1 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Why do some say it is a mothers right to have an elective section? Then they begin to compare it to say that well if you dont think its safe the same can be said about homebirth ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Michele
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#2 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 10:44 AM
 
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I dunno. Personally I think mothers should be able to birth however they want, be it elective c-section, hospital, home, or swinging from a trapeeze. Of course I feel some options are FAR better than others...but noone should tell anyone how they MUST birth.

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#3 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It concerns me to think that more choose csect for the reason of avoiding pain. They are choosing a major surgery over a normal physiological response.


insurance rates are rising and by the time my DS1 is older i wouldnt be surprised if more then half were c sects and vaginal birth was the minority

SO many babies can have sensory issues etc from not going through the normal birth process ( squeezed through birth canal etc)
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#4 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 03:41 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ArlyShellandKai
It concerns me to think that more choose csect for the reason of avoiding pain. They are choosing a major surgery over a normal physiological response.


insurance rates are rising and by the time my DS1 is older i wouldnt be surprised if more then half were c sects and vaginal birth was the minority

SO many babies can have sensory issues etc from not going through the normal birth process ( squeezed through birth canal etc)
michele
Michelle,

: and
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#5 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 03:49 PM
 
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yeah but people are less enthusiastic about a womans right to home-birth or uc.
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#6 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 03:55 PM
 
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I think it's a response to the way "typical" hospital births go- the mother is totally disempowered and usually ends up with perineal trauma from routine episiotomy. We all hear the horror stories from our mothers and friends our whole lives. When I found out I was pg all I knew was that I didn't want to be strapped to a bed flat on my back, spread eagle for all to see with some Dr. cutting my vagina. I considered C-sect. but thankfully I found homebirth instead!

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#7 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It just doesnt make sense and maybe it is pure ignorance on my part however ( and i am not totally talking about true medical conditions, true emergencies.. Im talking to posh to push and so on)

How is it that its ok and a Dr may call it a womans right to choose to have a csect/induced because of scheduling, avoiding pain etc however if a dr decides He would rather do a c sect for one reason or another.. ( let see i have heard of someones dr going on vacation and was going to induce mother so the dr could deliver and if it wasnt in time then csect)

then why is it so wrong when a mother chooses to go for a second opinion, knows the statistics etc and she possibly has CPS at her door... I know this is rambling however its all flowing out of my prego head


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#8 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I considered C-sect. but thankfully I found homebirth instead!
WOW lovechild talk about two opposites...


I remember when i was prego with DS#1 and i told family i was NOT having an epi my sis said Everyone has them and my mom added that she was drugged....

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#9 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 04:42 PM
 
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Think they want all women to be drugged and births to be c-secs anyway(domination), they just jealous and don't like women to have strength, not saying you don't need lots strength to have c-sec specially if its emergency, but imo most of em are done for non-medical reasons and probly make docs feel important and useful. Women who choose to have c-sec when theres no reason to have one are imo scared and just not into v-birth. Like there is something inherently distasteful about natural birth and possibly some stretch issues.
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#10 of 60 Old 07-08-2006, 06:27 PM
 
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and

Of course on monday, by accident I was in pre-registation office when a woman was pre-registering for her 2nd birth. Anyway, her mother and her oldest (daughter) were there. So, she had a primary c-section with her oldest daugther because her doctor said that she had a problem, mostly likely it was made up and this daughter was a repeat because of the doctor. The doctor of the hospital's Centre for Childbirth. So, of course I couldn't keep my mouth shut that because I was having trouble installing Lunix on my computer. So, I started asking her if she this her questions about is she getting a section and is it her 1st as well. Then, I said why can't you have a vbac and so on. Started to explain, but of course the BA (Business Associate) who was pre-registering said to me that you can't bring this up and the woman didn't mind or her mother, but of course with hippa, and everything else. Of course, I do understand, explain I'm not myself that day and exactly it was the whole week last week. I know the ba does care, but she can't do anything about the rules and etc. The woman seemed that she wanted aginal birth/s, but of course she follow her doctor's orders. After they left, I asked if I can do anymore to ba and so on and of course she was like no way you can do it here. One of the nurses that I'm friendly, not as much anymore, and other one as well. I did changed her mind, but still of course she followed her doctors orders no matter what. She breastfed her 2nd baby, but stopped because the baby was allergic her milk and bought up didn't you change you diet, but of course she no, and didn't know how explain she should.

Then, yesterday, I saw the woman's mother in hall by the nursery, watching her new granddaughter in one of nurseries in her bassinet, and of course the mother is bottlefeeding again. We start to talk and of course I didn't I kept my mouth shut on the c-section and etc and also I followed the hospital protorcall, spl, but at the sametime I said, if it was up to me I would let her in, but couldn't, she understood that as well.

For sorry for them and I'm hoping after the woman (her family, plus her, and their friends as well after she realizes or come to terms to how she came birth or whatever you can think of with this subject), that I talked with will change will change her mind, do research, and so on for her future pregnancies/births/parenting because if she doesn't she will be in the same position as her 1st 2 pregancies/births/parenting.
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#11 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 03:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ArlyShellandKai
Why do some say it is a mothers right to have an elective section? Then they begin to compare it to say that well if you dont think its safe the same can be said about homebirth ARGHHHHHHHHHHH!

Michele
Perhaps because they RESPECT a woman's right to CHOOSE what she feels is best for HER body and HER baby, even if they don't agree with her ultimate decision?

There are risks to elective c-sections that are certainly not present in a midwife attended homebirth (assuming all goes well with the homebirth of course). However, there are also risks to homebirth that are not present for an elective c-section that cannot be ignored. The risks are different. Pretending they don't exist is not useful IMO.

A mother should have the choice to birth her child however she feels safest doing so. It appalls me that insurance companies often do not cover licensed midwives for homebirths, yet that is not a birth choice I would *ever* make for myself.

You don't have to AGREE with a choice, but if you expect others to respect your choices, it only seems fair that the same respect be shown in return.

I support any method of birthing a child where mom knows, understands, and accepts the risks inherant to that particular choice. Again, the risks are going to vary depending on which type of birth mom chooses, but there are risks REGARDLESS of whether or not she squats by herself in the back yard or heads straight to the OR table at 38 weeks.

What *I* feel comfortable with risk wise isn't going to be the same as every other woman on the planet. Why that concept seems so hard to grasp for some people is what truly mystifies me.
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#12 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 01:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm
I dunno. Personally I think mothers should be able to birth however they want, be it elective c-section, hospital, home, or swinging from a trapeeze. Of course I feel some options are FAR better than others...but noone should tell anyone how they MUST birth.
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#13 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 01:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LoveChild421
I think it's a response to the way "typical" hospital births go- the mother is totally disempowered and usually ends up with perineal trauma from routine episiotomy. We all hear the horror stories from our mothers and friends our whole lives. When I found out I was pg all I knew was that I didn't want to be strapped to a bed flat on my back, spread eagle for all to see with some Dr. cutting my vagina. I considered C-sect. but thankfully I found homebirth instead!
Same for me
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#14 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 01:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rmzbm
I dunno. Personally I think mothers should be able to birth however they want, be it elective c-section, hospital, home, or swinging from a trapeeze. Of course I feel some options are FAR better than others...but noone should tell anyone how they MUST birth.
: Very well said.

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#15 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 05:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wifeandmom
Perhaps because they RESPECT a woman's right to CHOOSE what she feels is best for HER body and HER baby, even if they don't agree with her ultimate decision?
The thing that bothers me the most about this statement is that they do not TRULY respect a woman's right to choose what she feels is best. Obviously, there are a few exceptions in the OB world (my last OB included), but overall, obstetrics is the one of the specialties whose practices and protocols are the LEAST evidence-based. Sure, they'll respect a woman's right to choose a c/section because it's convenient for them and so far there haven't been enough malpractice suits resulting from MRCS.

There are a lot of women out there who want a VBAC because it's what they feel is best for them and their babies, but cannot get an OB or hospital willing to "let" them have a VBAC, despite the fact that evidence has shown VBAC to be safer than RCS. Women are scared and bullied into c/s every day (just take a trip to the ICAN list, lurk and listen to some of the horror stories). They've been lied to and coerced into major abdominal surgery that carries more risks than vaginal birth. No, I do not believe that OBs truly respect a woman's choice. I do believe it is a woman's choice, but her physician is obligated to give her true informed consent, and that's not happening either.
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#16 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 05:36 PM
 
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Interesting topic. I have mixed feelings about it. But I also don't believe that people should have the right to tell women how they should birth. Meaning, I guess a woman should have the right to an elective c-section (completely non-medical reason for it). However, I do not believe that insurance companies should pay for it. I also don't think insurance companies should pay for RIC. I don't think insurance companies should pay for elective surgeries done for absolutely no medical reason.
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#17 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 05:53 PM
 
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Women as far back as biblical times have worked and earned the right to make choices that concern their bodies. It just seems to be a step backwards to say that a woman should not have the right to have an elective csection but believe that a woman should have the right to choose UC or homebirth. The same can be said for any reproductive choice, including abortion.

And why should anyone care how one particular women gives birth? Why do we must always assume that if a woman chooses homebirth she is naive and ignorant and then say the same for a woman who chooses an elective cesarean? It is so double standard to me. Women SAFELY delivery EVERY DAY by various methods, each poses its own unique risk, and each woman has her own unique story (and possible risks) herself. I give women enough credit to make their own decisions, own choices, and do what is best for their families -- even if its not my ideal.

I've had three cesarean births. One not by choice because it was an emergency, but it was needed as did the following two. However I did make the choice to electively choose the time, place and day. I had virtually pain free cesarean sections, that were empowering and personal. My last two "births" meant as much to me, and were as empowering to me as any woman who has had homebirthed or US, in my own right.

Just because you don't believe in the method, or the reason behind it doesn't make it wrong.

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#18 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 05:55 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama
Interesting topic. I have mixed feelings about it. But I also don't believe that people should have the right to tell women how they should birth. Meaning, I guess a woman should have the right to an elective c-section (completely non-medical reason for it). However, I do not believe that insurance companies should pay for it. I also don't think insurance companies should pay for RIC. I don't think insurance companies should pay for elective surgeries done for absolutely no medical reason.
Then insurance should not pay for any form of birthcontrol, any infertility treatment, etc. If women want to fight to have homebirth covered on insurance (and some are) then elective csections should be covered as well.
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#19 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 06:03 PM
 
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My insurance covered my HBs only because it saved them quite a bit of money (HBs were not covered, and I had to take my appeals all the way up the bureaucratic ladder ) I'm not don't sure that an elective surgery would be treated the same way. As far as insurance companies go, at least in my experience, it was ALL about the money. Not about risk, choice, safety, etc. Bottom line cash money in their pocket.

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#20 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 06:15 PM
 
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All my babies are c section births! Yep, I'm a section mom !!!I think it doesn't matter how a baby comes into the world...just as long as its a happy, healthy baby. Thats what losing a baby does to ya...not worrying about "whats right" and "whats wrong" TO ME. I can sit here all day saying "Donna shouldn't have a " " birth" But at the end of the day, when Donna is holding her baby in her arms, nothing else matters, nothing at all. My c sections are all due to a small pelvis (tried delivery my son and he got stuck and had an emergency c/s..). But no matter how my kids got here, I love them all. That, to me, is whats important. There are definately risks associated with c/s..as with being pregnant and giving birth period! you lose blood, can lose mom, baby, alot of things can happen. being informative can help you understand your risks and the big decision you have to make for yourself and your baby.:

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#21 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 06:20 PM
 
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MRCS is a woman's *choice*, but it is still an elective surgery. Homebirth is just the normal physiological process of birth, only at home. Yes, at the end of both a baby is the end result, but they are night and day as far as cost goes. Like the pp said, it comes down to the insurance company's bottom line. This choice is more expensive for them, and without a medical reason, they should have the right to deny it. Homebirth has equivalent outcomes and fewer interventions than hospital birth overall, and is the norm throughout most of the world. If an insurance company will pay for a hospital vaginal birth, then they should pay for a homebirth. But to compare that choice with elective surgery is like comparing apples and oranges. I don't think my insurance premiums should increase because someone chooses any kind of elective surgery.
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#22 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 06:57 PM
 
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Then insurance should not pay for any form of birthcontrol, any infertility treatment, etc. If women want to fight to have homebirth covered on insurance (and some are) then elective csections should be covered as well.
I don't see this as even a related issue. We're talking about a completely unnecessary surgery such as RIC - something a person has elected to have done while not having a medical reason to do it (I'm not even talking about repeat C-sections that are doctor recommended). I do not believe that insurance premiums should have to go up because women make a CHOICE to have major surgery. Does she have the right to have the surgery? Yes. Does that mean insurance companies have to pay for it? No. I have the right to have breast implants, but I don't expect that my insurance company would pay for it. Homebirth and elective c-sections are also not the same thing.
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#23 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 09:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wifeandmom
A mother should have the choice to birth her child however she feels safest doing so. It appalls me that insurance companies often do not cover licensed midwives for homebirths, yet that is not a birth choice I would *ever* make for myself.

You don't have to AGREE with a choice, but if you expect others to respect your choices, it only seems fair that the same respect be shown in return.

I support any method of birthing a child where mom knows, understands, and accepts the risks inherant to that particular choice. Again, the risks are going to vary depending on which type of birth mom chooses, but there are risks REGARDLESS of whether or not she squats by herself in the back yard or heads straight to the OR table at 38 weeks.
I think I agree that a fully informed mother should have the choice of birth. However, we're talking about what OBs support. And, the same professionals who jumped all over a woman's "right to choose a cesarean" don't seem to believe that women have the right to choose a homebirth or a VBAC...and god forbid choosing a VBAC at home. I think that's a fairly serious double standard.

Also - fully informed is an interesting concept. I've had three c-sections that I didn't want. I've only been "fully informed" if there is no risk to a c-section, because no doctor involved in my care has ever so much as mentioned any risk to me. My first one was done over my protests and I was bullied and coerced (to my lasting regret) into my second and third. Nobody thought I had any right to choose whether or not I was unnecessarily cut open. Nobody thought I had any right to choose (or even know!) which drugs were pumped into my body. But, now that they've done the damage, they're very willing to defend my right to "choose" to have it done again.

I hope none of the women who want to choose an elective primary cesarean with no medical indicators mistakenly believe that they'll have any further right to choose, if things don't go as well as they're expecting.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#24 of 60 Old 07-10-2006, 10:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
I think I agree that a fully informed mother should have the choice of birth. However, we're talking about what OBs support. And, the same professionals who jumped all over a woman's "right to choose a cesarean" don't seem to believe that women have the right to choose a homebirth or a VBAC...and god forbid choosing a VBAC at home. I think that's a fairly serious double standard.

Also - fully informed is an interesting concept. I've had three c-sections that I didn't want. I've only been "fully informed" if there is no risk to a c-section, because no doctor involved in my care has ever so much as mentioned any risk to me. My first one was done over my protests and I was bullied and coerced (to my lasting regret) into my second and third. Nobody thought I had any right to choose whether or not I was unnecessarily cut open. Nobody thought I had any right to choose (or even know!) which drugs were pumped into my body. But, now that they've done the damage, they're very willing to defend my right to "choose" to have it done again.

I hope none of the women who want to choose an elective primary cesarean with no medical indicators mistakenly believe that they'll have any further right to choose, if things don't go as well as they're expecting.
You managed to say it so much better than I did!
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#25 of 60 Old 07-11-2006, 01:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride
I think I agree that a fully informed mother should have the choice of birth. However, we're talking about what OBs support. And, the same professionals who jumped all over a woman's "right to choose a cesarean" don't seem to believe that women have the right to choose a homebirth or a VBAC...and god forbid choosing a VBAC at home. I think that's a fairly serious double standard.

Also - fully informed is an interesting concept. I've had three c-sections that I didn't want. I've only been "fully informed" if there is no risk to a c-section, because no doctor involved in my care has ever so much as mentioned any risk to me. My first one was done over my protests and I was bullied and coerced (to my lasting regret) into my second and third. Nobody thought I had any right to choose whether or not I was unnecessarily cut open. Nobody thought I had any right to choose (or even know!) which drugs were pumped into my body. But, now that they've done the damage, they're very willing to defend my right to "choose" to have it done again.

I hope none of the women who want to choose an elective primary cesarean with no medical indicators mistakenly believe that they'll have any further right to choose, if things don't go as well as they're expecting.

1. OB's can and do tell women every day that they will not attend a VBAC delivery if that is how mom chooses to deliver. At this point in time, it often has very little to do with what the OB thinks about VBAC at all, it's more about the fact that malpractice premiums for docs who attend VBACs are through the roof (if they can even get coverage, since many policies now refuse to cover the doc in the event of a lawsuit resulting from a VBAC attempt). It's about the fact that many hospitals across the country are unable and/or unwilling to meet the very strict guidelines set forth by ACOG for VBAC patients. Malpractice carriers for hospitals are also refusing to cover hospitals who are sued as a result of a VBAC gone wrong.

As for a doc not 'allowing' a woman to have a homebirth...how exactly are they going to STOP her from doing so? They certainly aren't likely to pat her on the back and tell her to 'go for it' with their blessing, but they can't FORCE her to go to the hospital, so I fail to see how an OB being unsupportive of homebirth or HBAC is even applicable to the discussion.

2. You had THREE c-sections and never signed a consent form for any of them? I truly am shocked. Speechless. What hospital(s) did this occur in? My understanding is that a consent form MUST be signed by either the patient or patient's next of kin if patient is incapacitated. The only way they could section you otherwise is if you presented unconscious with no next of kin and you &/or baby were in danger of dying.

3. A woman can CHOOSE to birth vaginally (or attempt to do so) after a dozen c-sections. She is unlikely to find a midwife willing to attend her birth, but NOBODY can FORCE her to have surgery again. Ever.

I do think it's a sucky choice to put a woman in...either ERCS or VBAC with no licensed provider present at the birth. However, women suing for VBACs gone wrong has done much to create the current climate where malpractice carriers aren't willing to take the risk of paying out millions of dollars when a VBAC goes wrong and mom wants someone to pay for HER decision to take that risk to begin with.

I also believe that a woman who CHOOSES to have an elective section should understand that it may very well be impossible to find someone willing to attend any future attempts at vaginal birth. That's part of the package deal of asking for an elective section IMO and should be explained and discussed fully prior to surgery. It should also be discussed that some women' can only 'handle' a limited number of sections, so if she wants a half dozen kids, elective primary c-section isn't a very good plan overall. To me, those are part of the risks associated with elective primary c-section and should be covered under informed consent.

In the end, there's a big difference between woman being unable to find a doc willing to attend a VBAC attempt and a woman being unable to find a doc willing to perform a c-section. The woman refused a VBAC *can* choose to have her baby vaginally right by herself if it came down to it and was THAT important to her. The woman refused an elective section can't just hack her belly open when the time comes. She *must* have a doc willing to operate, thus the doc truly does hold all the cards in that particular situation.
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I didn't say OBs could stop women from having a VBAC or a homebirth. I said they wouldn't support it, yet they're all for supporting a woman's right to choose a primary cesarean. Provided there are no major complications in either case, choosing a vaginal birth or homebirth doesn't affect a woman's options in a future birth, while choosing a cesarean does.

I signed a pre-registration form with my first. I arrived at 8 cm dilation, and my baby was breech. I was cut open over my loud verbal protests. I didn't say that I never consented to my second and third surgeries - I said I didn't want them. There's a difference between being bullied and coerced and being forced. I was bullied and coerced into my second and third sections, but I wasn't forced. I caved - no excuses, many regrets.

If I have another baby, it will be a HBA3C (or an emergency section as a homebirth transfer). There's no other possible way for me to have a good outcome.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#27 of 60 Old 07-11-2006, 02:27 PM
 
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I do think it's a sucky choice to put a woman in...either ERCS or VBAC with no licensed provider present at the birth. However, women suing for VBACs gone wrong has done much to create the current climate where malpractice carriers aren't willing to take the risk of paying out millions of dollars when a VBAC goes wrong and mom wants someone to pay for HER decision to take that risk to begin with.
I agree. However, I also think OBs have largely put themselves in the position they're in. Women used to know and understand that birth was risky and that things can go wrong. OBs gloss over that and try to make it go away. "Be a good girl, do what I tell you, and you'll be holding your healthy baby in no time." When you deliberately try to put yourself on a pedestal, you've got nobody to blame but yourself when it gets uncomfortable up there.

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I also believe that a woman who CHOOSES to have an elective section should understand that it may very well be impossible to find someone willing to attend any future attempts at vaginal birth. That's part of the package deal of asking for an elective section IMO and should be explained and discussed fully prior to surgery. It should also be discussed that some women' can only 'handle' a limited number of sections, so if she wants a half dozen kids, elective primary c-section isn't a very good plan overall. To me, those are part of the risks associated with elective primary c-section and should be covered under informed consent.
I see three problems with this.
The first is that it's not about "some women" only being able to "handle" a limited number of sections. I had no physical problems after my first two, but now have no feeling in my abdomen or bladder. Some women get that after their first - some never get it at all. It's luck of the draw, and has nothing to do with how many you have. Your phrasing here is just one more case of "we don't know what's wrong with your particular body - hedge your bets".

The second is that doctors have their own limits. My OB will do up to four sections, but no more. (He'd have to do a fifth if a woman presented at the hospital requiring it while he was OB on-call, but he won't take an OB patient with four prior sections.) It doesn't matter if the woman could "handle" a dozen, because he's decided how many kids she can have.

The third is that it's human nature to discount things that don't seem applicable to you. A woman who goes in for an elective primary section and is told that she shouldn't have more than two children (or whatever) isn't going to worry about that much if she's only planning on two. But, people do change their minds, and I've seen a fair number of people with an "oops" pregnancy who went on to have three or four kids because once they were parents, they found that they loved it. While that's certainly on their own heads if they chose major surgery, it's understandable that people don't really concern themselves about this aspect when they haven't yet experienced parenthood.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#28 of 60 Old 07-11-2006, 02:30 PM
 
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In the end, there's a big difference between woman being unable to find a doc willing to attend a VBAC attempt and a woman being unable to find a doc willing to perform a c-section. The woman refused a VBAC *can* choose to have her baby vaginally right by herself if it came down to it and was THAT important to her. The woman refused an elective section can't just hack her belly open when the time comes. She *must* have a doc willing to operate, thus the doc truly does hold all the cards in that particular situation.
The woman refused an elective section can *also* choose to have her baby vaginally. You make it sound as though her choice is to find a doctor or cut herself open, and that's nonsense.

Anyway - we obviously see things very differently. I've made my mistakes, and know better now. If I ever do have another baby, no doctors will be involved. I want people around who actually give a crap about me and my family.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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#29 of 60 Old 07-11-2006, 10:10 PM
 
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The woman refused an elective section can *also* choose to have her baby vaginally. You make it sound as though her choice is to find a doctor or cut herself open, and that's nonsense.
My point was that if a woman WANTS a c-section and is UNABLE to find a doc willing to perform one for her, she CANNOT do it herself.

If a woman WANTS a vaginal birth, she doesn't REQUIRE the assistance of a doctor or midwife to make her choice possible.

Yes, a woman refused an elective section would obviously eventually have to at least attempt a vaginal delivery, but it would literally be FORCING her to do something she wasn't comfortable with for whatever reason. The same simply is not true for a woman wishing to birth vaginally. No doctor on this planet is going to come to your house and physically force you into a vehicle, transport you to the hospital, and forcibly cut you open against your wishes.

To me, it's about a WOMAN'S choice, something I believe should be protected and respected even if I don't happen to agree with her particular choice. I would never ever support any attempts whatsoever to make homebirth illegal, even unassited homebirth.

If a woman is willing to take on the risk of birthing her child without anyone present to assist in a medical emergency and her child dies as a result of that choice, that's no different than me choosing an ERCS that might result in my child's death. We all have to look at the risk factors for our own particular situations and decide what we feel is the best course of action from there. I can't and wouldn't WANT TO force my own opinion on what is safe vs. what is not safe on another woman simply because I cannot imagine having that done to me.
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#30 of 60 Old 07-12-2006, 12:21 AM
 
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Yes, a woman refused an elective section would obviously eventually have to at least attempt a vaginal delivery, but it would literally be FORCING her to do something she wasn't comfortable with for whatever reason.
I think if she's that uncomfortable with vaginal birth, avoiding pregnancy in the first place might be a good idea. She could have someone ready to cut her baby out at 38 weeks, and go into labour at 36 and be unable to reach a hospital. Vaginal birth is (well - used to be) a fairly inevitable result of pregnancy.

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The same simply is not true for a woman wishing to birth vaginally. No doctor on this planet is going to come to your house and physically force you into a vehicle, transport you to the hospital, and forcibly cut you open against your wishes.
No - but they will cut women open against their wishes once they're at the hospital, and they will sic CPS on women who are "irresponsibly" endangering their infants by homebirthing. Homebirth isn't illegal, but there are factors at work that make it incredibly stressful for many women. I just hope I can avoid any legal crap being thrown at me because I'm selfish enough to not want to be assaulted again.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
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