Birthing at hospital - can they force you to send baby to nursery? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 02:26 AM
 
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This is baffling! I gave birth at two different hospitals in SoCal, and at both the staff stressed again and again that the baby was not to be separated from the parents at any time (barring medical emergency). There was no nursery, except NICU. The only exam that couldn't be performed in the room was a hearing test, which the parents were encouraged to attend.

You might call to find out whether the hospital has a patients' advocate, and see if s/he has any legal info for you. Also, read any paperwork that you're asked to sign very carefully. And definitely plan to have a family member with you at all times to handle any pushy people.

Wife to a wonderful dh and mom to four beautiful kiddos, dd (3/04):, ds1 (1/06), ds2 (10/08), and ds3 (7/10)
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#32 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 02:27 AM
 
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(I just wanted to add that although I had mostly positive hospital experiences, I'm planning to have a homebirth next time.)

Wife to a wonderful dh and mom to four beautiful kiddos, dd (3/04):, ds1 (1/06), ds2 (10/08), and ds3 (7/10)
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#33 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 02:29 AM
 
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No they can't force you to send baby to nursery. My first was a transfer and never went to the nursery.

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#34 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 09:50 AM
 
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at Alegna and OTF. I should put that on my calendar ladies

I have a friend who gave birth at my "favorite" Conveyor Belt TechnoBirth facility. She was all gung-ho "nobody's takin' my baby!" before she went in. After a failed induction (her doc even told her it would fail, geez!) she had a c/s. Then she became quite the victim, literally and figuritively. She was tethered (by tubes) to a bed and drugged from here to oblivion. So she was rather incapable of pretty much anything. The baby was taken, a bottle was given...a year later, she's still upset about all of this. I remind her that they did not have to take her baby and she says "oh but they did! THye told me so!" I shake my head and bury my face at every turn. She loved the whole experience overall though (!!!!) and can't wait to do it again...but next time she's going to be more adament about having the baby with her (and this time she'll make sure I'm there for the birth -- an ERCS *sigh*) Anyway, the point o fthat whole story is that no, they can't force you, but they certainly can coerce you.

Namaste, Tara
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#35 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 11:28 AM
 
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Anyway, the point o fthat whole story is that no, they can't force you, but they certainly can coerce you.
:

That's what it really comes down to.

-Angela
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#36 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 12:08 PM
 
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I just wanted to add that while they may not be able to force you to allow them to take the baby to the nursery, you have to understand that you may have to make the choice between allowing them to take baby and forfeitting care. The hospital I last birthed in did "allow" rooming in but the baby had to be taken to the nursery within an hour of birth and then in the morning and at night according to hospital protocol. Each time the baby was in the nursery for at least 2-3 hours. This is not "rooming in" IMO.

Yes, I could say no don't take my baby. But, that means I would have to sign an against medical advice waiver and forfeit medical care to my child. I can't force them to care for my child on my terms. They won't do it. WE aren't the only ones who can say no, the hospital can say no too. I never planned on staying at the hospital after the birth and only stayed for 24 hours as it was. The only reason I stayed that long is because his first apgar was a 4 and he had to be rescusitated. His coloring just didn't look right for a long time and it scared me. I felt that something might be wrong but in hind sight I think I was just paranoid and a little traumatized and wish I would have just gone right home. Anywho, I wanted him to be checked out by a pediatrician like all the other babies in the hospital do but they would not check him out unless I allowed him to go to the nursery. I'm sure if he stopped breathing or an emergency happened they would have come to me but that is the only way. I would also have to forfeit him being weighed, measured, and all the other newborn screening (most of which I was declining anyway). I think if you aren't going to let the baby go to the nursery in a hospital that doesn't come to your room to provide care then you might as well go home right away. There isn't much point to being there otherwise. You can't force them to come to your room to do it.
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#37 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 02:57 PM
 
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You can't force them to your room to do it...though you can go with them when they do anything. You can take the baby yourself and be right there. I assure you they'll get their stuff done faster if you are standing right there (personal experience). I saw babies lay for hours whereas my baby I took down, they gave him a once over, and handed him right back. Because I was there. When they did the first PKU, I stood at the window and watched. I handed him to the nurse, she had him for less than two minutes, and handedhim right back. I saw another baby do it too and she took him in, and laid him in a bassinette afterwards for who knows how long. So if you do send ababy to the nursery, go with them.

Namaste, Tara
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#38 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 03:05 PM
 
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actually nope, they don't allow the parents in at the hospital I birthed at. Though my dh did follow them and wait outside the window the whole time and if anything it made them take longer because they were spiteful. At this hospital the only time they allow a parent to go in the nursery is for the immediate screening right after birth and it has to be the dh or partner/coach because the mama is "recovering". I figured I'd go anyway since I had nothing to recover from but then I did have some bleeding that wasn't under control so I wasn't in a position to go. It ended up taking longer than the normal stay in the nursery b/c my dh was right there telling them what we didn't want and they actually obliged, but that ended up causing more problems. His body temp was elevated and it took 3 peds to figure out why. They had overheated him in the warmer. They heated him up just like they do babies who get a bath and need to be rewarmed, but since we declined the bath (to get my baby back sooner) it over heated him and he stayed in way longer. Sucky.
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#39 of 54 Old 09-30-2006, 06:47 PM
 
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Ugh--I'm going through this right now as well. Was planning a homebirth and rec'd concurrent care throughout the pregnancy. Well, it's a long story, but I had to change practices at 38 1/2 weeks (GRRRR). Last night dh and I took a tour at the hospital (he is now against a h/b--yet another long story). Everything went fine till we got to the nursery. The head of the nursery happened to be on last night and told us in no uncertain terms that our baby, just like ALL babies would be staying in the nursery for at least 2 hours shortly after the birth. Parents are NOT allowed :

I told her that we wanted all newborn assessments done at my bedside and that we would not be having our baby go to the nursery unless there was a medical reason. I asked her why she felt it was so important to take our baby to the nursery and she told me that she HAD to give it a bath and HAD to watch it's temperature. I told her that I wanted to give the baby her first bath and that I wasn't comfortable at all with them taking my kid. (And, anyway, doesn't giving them a bath LOWER their temp?) She was polite, but firm and told me that this is the procedure and that we would have to deal with it. DH could stand in the hallway and watch :

Well, I was not happy with her answers needless to say and decided that I would call today and speak with the head of nursing on the OB floor. She told me the magic words to say:

"Please notify the nursery that I want non-separation" upon arrival and also put it in writing.

Now, I do not know if this works at other hospitals, but it's certainly worth a try and I would suggest speaking with the head of the L&D department ahead of time. Had I not done so, I know there would be fighting at the hospital. In fact, there may still be, but I know that it's a bendable rule now.

It stinks that we have to fight for our rights like this.
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#40 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 09:58 AM
 
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I think it definitely depends on if you have someone with you- a must really as you don't know what you are going to feel like- even if with non- med- non-intervention birth I did not feel like walking around- 2 days with no sleep. Also, I think the birth plan helps and not just believing them when they say they "have" to do anything. I heard that so many times before Luke was born, but I never gave it an option. The brochure advertises rooming-in and that's what I expected. Also, on the ped, I think that depends on the ped you have. Mine came straight to my room- and then changed Luke's meconium stained diaper.

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#41 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 10:12 AM
 
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My dd was born in ABQ NM. They kept trying to take her to the nursery and I refused. I would nurse, then as soon as she fell asleep they would insist I wake her to nurse (you know, every 4 hours is every 4 hours :LOL). Anyway, we solved the problem by having it in our b-plan, but also dh or our friend that acted as doula was there all the time. If they wanted to take the baby, dh or Val went with her. Finally, toward the end, one of the nurses (they were all quite offended by this behaviour), asked if dh thought they were not good nurses...why didn't he trust them? I wonder why!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I told them a polite fiction about his troubled past with hospitals and that, no, it wasn't them specifically, but that he was paranoid about hospitals.

Also, they only took the babe for bath (which dh insisted he give) and for weighing and such...I was lucky I guess.

Good luck and stand firm!!!!
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#42 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 10:58 AM
 
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actually nope, they don't allow the parents in at the hospital I birthed at.
Lots of hospitals don't. You can still take the baby down yourself and stand there at the window like a hawk. Trust me, they'll get whatever done much faster with you standing there. For my 2nd's hearint screen, I laid him in the bucket myself and stood in arm's length the entire time. The lady thanked me for doing so, citing that most of the parents just leave the baby, though they are all encouraged to stay right there. I've watched it with other parents too. WHen they take the baby down themselves and stand there, the baby is handed back with much more speed.

This all reminds me of something I'd forgotten: When I had my 2nd, I had this really nice nurse on the post-partum unit. She joyfully bounced in around 1am to take the baby to the nursery. I was all scratching my head and such and she gave me some lameness aout checking out the baby and taking his temperature. I asked could she take his temperature here, were there no thermomenters in the room? She looked comletely perplexed and said "well, yes, I do have one in my pocket" She took his temperature. She "needed" to weigh him. I wasn't sure why, especially not why in the middle of the night. She was really nice though so I said "You can weigh him if I can carry him there myself" She didn't see why not. So she got her stupid weight on him and I took him myself. She personally tucked the baby into my bed beside me and wished me a good night afterward

Namaste, Tara
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#43 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 02:22 PM
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"Please notify the nursery that I want non-separation" upon arrival and also put it in writing.

.
I really hope this does work for you I would be a little cautious though. The problem is that the OB director is not on the floor. She is in her office somewhere, or she is at home on a night or weekend. If you go in saying she told you this, there is a chance they will continue to tell you it is not allowed, etc. It sounds like if you can get to her she can make it happen. Maybe you can talk to her again and get some personal contact info. I just don't see the staff going along with this too easily... After all, common sense says babe should stay with mom if she asks and they still argued with you about it AND defended their policy. They didn't mention this as an option- even though the director says it is. I would definitely take as many steps to get this put into place early as I could. Best of luck to you with your delivery and babe!

BTW, the bath is for the convenience of the staff, a baby covered in dried vernix, fluid, and blood is a biohazard and you have to put on gloves. A baby who has been washed does not require any barriers.
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#44 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 04:19 PM
 
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Trust me, they'll get whatever done much faster with you standing there.
Like I said, that didn't work for us but I'm glad it worked for you.

To those who are about to be dealing with a hospital birth - I would recomend printing out the AAP's policy statment on BFing and taking it with you to present to any staff who tries to take the baby to the nursery, especially this part:

Quote:
Healthy infants should be placed and remain in direct skin-to-skin contact with their mothers immediately after delivery until the first feeding is accomplished.156–158
The alert, healthy newborn infant is capable of latching on to a breast without specific assistance within the first hour after birth.156 Dry the infant, assign Apgar scores, and perform the initial physical assessment while the infant is with the mother. The mother is an optimal heat source for the infant.159,160 Delay weighing, measuring, bathing, needle-sticks, and eye prophylaxis until after the first feeding is completed. Infants affected by maternal medications may require assistance for effective latch-on.156 Except under unusual circumstances, the newborn infant should remain with the mother throughout the recovery period.161
http://www.breastfeedingtaskforla.or...ement.htm#R152

I found that when I was in the hospital they liked to throw the AAP's recomendations out left and right, like when I went for my early discharge. I think it would have been helpful or at least priceless had I had a copy of this to whip in their faces when they tried to take the baby to do all of the above things in the nursery. Funny they only seem to care about the AAP's recomendations if they go along with their own personal hospital protocol.
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#45 of 54 Old 10-02-2006, 05:51 PM
 
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Some hospitals do not allow parents in the nursery for security or health reasons, which on some level I get. I just wouldn't birth at a hospital like that. I want me and my husband to have full access to our baby at all times, no questions really asked.

Believe it or not there are extremes to the other side as well. My friend lives outside of Atlanta and there is no newborn nursery for healthy newborns. Everything is right there in your room and that is where your newborn stays. At times she said this was problematic, especially with a first time mom and her having had a csection. I know another mother who had had many children and didn't mind her baby going to the nursery because she was a lite sleeper and wanted the have a 2-3 hours of solid sleep uninterrupted, but that was not something they did at that hospital. There was a full rooming in policy. Let's just say she wasn't too happy about that.

I know that when I had Katie twice I went to the nursery for an extended length of time. Both times I was there there was this one baby that was in there. I was told that the mother didn't want her in the room with her at all unless she had visitors. The nurses literally had to "force" the mother to feed the baby and the mother would not change the baby's clothes or diaper at all. It was really sad. She just didn't want the baby in there with her at all. One of the baby nurses said that they were going to have psych consult with her before she left because she acted so distant with her baby. What made it even sadder is that the hospital I give birth at requires that the nurses wear gloves when they have any physical contact with the babies, even while just holding them. So that baby had little to no skin to skin contact.
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#46 of 54 Old 10-03-2006, 03:37 PM
 
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with the hospital that I have worked for, and during my schooling as a nurse, If a doctor find that a baby needs to be "observed"for some reason, that baby can become property of the hospital, that is after a cps call. There was a nurse that took a rectal temp a normal 99 degrees, and she put it under axu temp. They contacted cps they said they were indagering their child because they refused antibiotics for their babies"infection". They left AMA and cps was looking for them at home.


The advice I can give you is after the birth and the post exame of both you and baby, and things check out, sign you and you baby out of the hospital. Say if you have any concerns or problems they will be the first you contact, other then that say thank you for their time and be on you way. Never be harsh just stick up for yourself in a respectiful way and dont let baby out of your sight, you can refuse any and all testing, but when you sign the waver make sure you cross out the part that you are not endangering you or your child and as a result of not having the test. Just write in yourself that these test and procedures are not nessary at this time and you do not hold the hospital accountable if any problem arise as a result of not having the test. It will be hard and they will not see from you point of veiw, they are looking for something wrong. Just be strong.

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#47 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 03:22 PM
 
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I don't post very often in this forum but I am a nurse in an NICU at a family friendly hospital (if there is such a thing). Our protocol states that if a baby is born at less than 35wks (even 34 and 6/7 days) it has to be brought to the NICU for observation. Usually those babies do not just stay for observation and end up staying at least 3 days but usually a couple of weeks. If as a mom you think your baby is fine, of course you can refuse medical treatment for your child. If we feel that the child is in danger, we get a court order to treat the child. We've only done this on very specific occasions like when a family refuses blood products for religous reasons and the baby has a dangerously low hematocrit (blood count).

Something else to remember is that if you chose to leave the hospital with your child AMA, your insurance will not cover you or the baby for anything up until that point.

And no, nurses will not pry the child from your arms 99.9% of the time (I can't vouch for crazy nurses). We just simply make a note in the chart that mom refuses x or y.

Here's hoping your baby cooks a while longer.

Mandy
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#48 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 03:39 PM
 
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Be firm.. The hospital I had my son at was great and really helped us foster our breastfeeding relationship and told us how lucky our son was to not be circumsized. IF they pressure you, and there are no complications, you are always free to discharge AMA.
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#49 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 03:58 PM
 
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Something else to remember is that if you chose to leave the hospital with your child AMA, your insurance will not cover you or the baby for anything up until that point.
This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela
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#50 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 07:29 PM
 
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This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela
I have heard our docs tell parents this before, and our particular doctors don't lie. I will have to say that I have never checked into this myself, and it might just be some insurance carriers and not all.

Mandy
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#51 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 07:36 PM
 
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This seems to be an urban legend. I can't imagine that it's legal.

-Angela
It's not. We agree on something again. Don't Faint ok?

I was told this by hospital staff and it is completely untrue. I left AMA with Jack and called my insurance company the next day. They do, by law, have to cover your hospital visits even if you choose to leave against medical advice. I had an HMO at the time that really sucked to be honest with you. I now have BCBS, a very good plan, and I have confirmed with them during my pregnancy with Katie that they would pay for my hospital/surgical bills if I left AMA.
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#52 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 07:39 PM
 
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I have heard our docs tell parents this before, and our particular doctors don't lie. I will have to say that I have never checked into this myself, and it might just be some insurance carriers and not all.

Mandy
I'd bet the farm that they are lying. I had a ped. and three nurses tell me at the hospital they would not pay. My sister is a RN and said that this is said to scare patients into complying. I was also told that if I left, my baby would die and they would call CPS on me. I called my attorney from the hospital who said that I could leave, but to get a second opinion the next morning and not to let CPS in the door if they came to my home but to hand them her card. CPS was not called. I did get my second opinion. And that baby they told me would die, is 4. My insurance also paid the hospital bill, all the tests, and even the meal I ate while I was there.
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#53 of 54 Old 10-04-2006, 08:32 PM
 
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I don't live in the U.S., but I can't see how that is legal. It totally negates informed consent.

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#54 of 54 Old 10-05-2006, 11:48 AM
 
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I'd bet the farm that they are lying. I had a ped. and three nurses tell me at the hospital they would not pay. My sister is a RN and said that this is said to scare patients into complying. I was also told that if I left, my baby would die and they would call CPS on me. I called my attorney from the hospital who said that I could leave, but to get a second opinion the next morning and not to let CPS in the door if they came to my home but to hand them her card. CPS was not called. I did get my second opinion. And that baby they told me would die, is 4. My insurance also paid the hospital bill, all the tests, and even the meal I ate while I was there.
Wow, good to know. I'll have to talk to the docs about this tomorrow at work. We have only had this issue come up twice in the 10 years I've been there and our docs always just ended up discharging the baby. That's one thing I don't like about my job, we often don't get to hear outcomes after babies are discharged...unless they come visit or someone calls to tell us funeral arrangements

Mandy
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