birth: it's like pooping, it's like sex...NOT rocket science - Mothering Forums

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Old 01-04-2007, 12:30 AM - Thread Starter
 
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y'know, I find myself again and again wanting to say random stuff when I am reading the threads here at mothering.com, or talking to people IRL, about birth. Things that happen routinely to women birthing in hosptials in the good ol' USA that we accept as fact, as "okay", that, if taken out of the hosptial birthing context, and applied to a simialr (but different) context would be OUTRAGOUS.

There's a fine lady on these boards who likes to draw a parallel between c-section and colostomy bags.

I AM ALL ABOUT IT. (And I do not for a moment doubt the value of a cesarean, as I do not doubt the value of a colostomy--I am not being cheeky or flippant.)

What about sex? Another great parallel....as Ina May Gaskin says, the same sexy energy that got the baby in there is the same sexy energy that gets the baby out. Dim lights, feeling safe, secure....

Another facet:
what if I imagine a man's arousal being measured in the same humilating (but totally accepted) manner a woman's dialating cervix is?

"well, sorry, you can't possibly be fully excited yet, because you're not meeting our measurement criteria....or you'll need this many more kisses before you'll be 'ready'". What the heck? it sounds crazy the moment you apply the labor room attitude to a slightly different but very similar context. (Lemme just pop an IV in your arm 'til you're "turned on"....scary!!!!!)

At the hospital, the questions is: How dialated is she? Insert your fingers and spread, and record the diameter on this paper. What men were measured on their private parts about something as DYNAMIC and intimate as arousal?

Seriously........I really think they are highly similar....

What else?

Is there a place for comparisons with rape, the way some women are bullied and humiliated and terrorized and threatened by "care providers"?

Birth is "so unusual" and "dangerous" in our mainstream culture, that I think we forget that there's a real woman around that contracting uterus, a real woman around that cervix to measure.....and that the accepted elements of American Childbirth are OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

outrageous. "oh, I had to have a c-section"....that is what a third of our sisters in the USA tell their friends when they come home from the hosptial with their new babies....if I just came home from the hosptial saying, "oh, I have to have a colosotmy," that would NOT be accepted. NO ONE would expect me to be at Target buying Windex & Doritos 3 weeks post-op, but nowadays it's "just" a c-section (like Britney Spears!)

NEXT ANGLE: labor is kind of like being drunk!

Who has a Breathalyzer handy to check their actual blood alcohol level? Not many people.....but you know when you're buzzed, you know when you're really buzzed, and you know when you're drunk, and then WHOOPSIE, you're really drunk and puking.

You don't need explicit numerical data to tell you this! The same is true for how far along a woman is in labor, IMHO.

And if you do have a Breathalyzer handy, as I did a few times, well, it's not really that much of a news flash... And being .06 does not tell me exactly how many more drinks I can have before I'm "completely drunk," nor does being 6 cm tell a woman/care provider how many more contractions she'll experience before she's "completely dialated."

Further, the Breathalyzer can be a buzzkill.....just like a vag exam might be.

I'm just going nuts about all of these things, and more......and don't have the collection of birth-junkie IRL pals to toss around these ideas and concepts....

The constant measuring tracking recording data-gathering: birth is not rocket science!!!!

What are your thoughts?
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:43 AM
 
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Excellent post!

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Old 01-04-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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Rocket science? Maybe not. Worst pain I've ever experienced in my life? Yes. First experience I've ever had that made me wish I were dead? Yes. There's no possibility of feeling safe and secure when you're in that kind of pain. There's nothing nice or sexy about it. I had the hot tub, dim lights, CDs of my favorite soothing music, a good birth plan drawn up. When the time came, I realized that I couldn't care less about the lighting or the music or any of the rest of it. Poked and prodded? Sure, whatever. I didn't care what anyone did. Nothing mattered to me anymore. I'd have taken heroin if you'd offered it to me then. Anything to stop the pain.

Simple process, maybe, but it sure as hell isn't easy.
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tinyshoes View Post
y'know, I find myself again and again wanting to say random stuff when I am reading the threads here at mothering.com, or talking to people IRL, about birth. Things that happen routinely to women birthing in hosptials in the good ol' USA that we accept as fact, as "okay", that, if taken out of the hosptial birthing context, and applied to a simialr (but different) context would be OUTRAGOUS.

There's a fine lady on these boards who likes to draw a parallel between c-section and colostomy bags.

I AM ALL ABOUT IT. (And I do not for a moment doubt the value of a cesarean, as I do not doubt the value of a colostomy--I am not being cheeky or flippant.)

What about sex? Another great parallel....as Ina May Gaskin says, the same sexy energy that got the baby in there is the same sexy energy that gets the baby out. Dim lights, feeling safe, secure....

Another facet:
what if I imagine a man's arousal being measured in the same humilating (but totally accepted) manner a woman's dialating cervix is?

"well, sorry, you can't possibly be fully excited yet, because you're not meeting our measurement criteria....or you'll need this many more kisses before you'll be 'ready'". What the heck? it sounds crazy the moment you apply the labor room attitude to a slightly different but very similar context. (Lemme just pop an IV in your arm 'til you're "turned on"....scary!!!!!)

At the hospital, the questions is: How dialated is she? Insert your fingers and spread, and record the diameter on this paper. What men were measured on their private parts about something as DYNAMIC and intimate as arousal?

Seriously........I really think they are highly similar....

What else?

Is there a place for comparisons with rape, the way some women are bullied and humiliated and terrorized and threatened by "care providers"?

Birth is "so unusual" and "dangerous" in our mainstream culture, that I think we forget that there's a real woman around that contracting uterus, a real woman around that cervix to measure.....and that the accepted elements of American Childbirth are OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!

outrageous. "oh, I had to have a c-section"....that is what a third of our sisters in the USA tell their friends when they come home from the hosptial with their new babies....if I just came home from the hosptial saying, "oh, I have to have a colosotmy," that would NOT be accepted. NO ONE would expect me to be at Target buying Windex & Doritos 3 weeks post-op, but nowadays it's "just" a c-section (like Britney Spears!)

NEXT ANGLE: labor is kind of like being drunk!

Who has a Breathalyzer handy to check their actual blood alcohol level? Not many people.....but you know when you're buzzed, you know when you're really buzzed, and you know when you're drunk, and then WHOOPSIE, you're really drunk and puking.

You don't need explicit numerical data to tell you this! The same is true for how far along a woman is in labor, IMHO.

And if you do have a Breathalyzer handy, as I did a few times, well, it's not really that much of a news flash... And being .06 does not tell me exactly how many more drinks I can have before I'm "completely drunk," nor does being 6 cm tell a woman/care provider how many more contractions she'll experience before she's "completely dialated."

Further, the Breathalyzer can be a buzzkill.....just like a vag exam might be.

I'm just going nuts about all of these things, and more......and don't have the collection of birth-junkie IRL pals to toss around these ideas and concepts....

The constant measuring tracking recording data-gathering: birth is not rocket science!!!!

What are your thoughts?


THANK YOU! I'm not alone in thinking this! So many times have I just been a "drive by" reader as opposed to a replier- for the simple reason that these are some of the things I wanted to say!!


GREAT MOM to dd (5) and )ds( [sept 26 2006]
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Old 01-04-2007, 12:56 AM
 
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Finally someone said it!!!

You know my mom met a man from Africa on a plane to Sweden not too long ago. He told her how in his village 98% of the babies are born at home and most labours are around 1-2 hours MAX.

Seriously, what is our problem here?!!
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh my gosh, I truly hesitated to post this, I am so thrilled to know that my sisters understand what the heck it is I'm trying to say!!!

keep it comin'!!!
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:33 AM
 
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Prenatal/Pediatric Chiropractor (Diplomate) , raising the next generation drug-free!
DS - CJ :, the love of my life
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:42 AM
 
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LOL, so true!!!

I read the thread title and had to laugh because lately I actually have been thinking about how much giving birth is like pooping. As someone with IBS, I have actually learned a lot about how to give birth by how I handle pooping .

~Erin
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tinyshoes View Post
What about sex? Another great parallel....as Ina May Gaskin says, the same sexy energy that got the baby in there is the same sexy energy that gets the baby out. Dim lights, feeling safe, secure....

Another facet:
what if I imagine a man's arousal being measured in the same humilating (but totally accepted) manner a woman's dialating cervix is?
I really think some of this stuff depends a great deal on the woman.

For me, feeling safe and secure during birth is about feeling that my health care provider (whoever that might be) is competent and trustworthy. And feeling comfortable in my environment is about being someplace like a birth center or hospital, rather than in my own home, where I know I'd feel inhibited and uncomfortable.

I've never been bothered by a vaginal exam in my life. I certainly don't find them humiliating; generally I don't even find them uncomfortable. During my last birth, I was happy to have occasional vaginal exams -- I found that they helped me understand what was going on, particularly since I didn't recognize transition until after it was over, when I learned through a vaginal exam that I was fully dilated.

Sonja , 40, married to DH (42) since 5-29-93, DD born 11-3-2004, DS born 1-18-2007.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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Rocket science? Maybe not. Worst pain I've ever experienced in my life? Yes. First experience I've ever had that made me wish I were dead? Yes. There's no possibility of feeling safe and secure when you're in that kind of pain. There's nothing nice or sexy about it. I had the hot tub, dim lights, CDs of my favorite soothing music, a good birth plan drawn up. When the time came, I realized that I couldn't care less about the lighting or the music or any of the rest of it. Poked and prodded? Sure, whatever. I didn't care what anyone did. Nothing mattered to me anymore. I'd have taken heroin if you'd offered it to me then. Anything to stop the pain.

Simple process, maybe, but it sure as hell isn't easy.
LOL
I totally agree about labor.
When i tell people that i would have happily accepted the offer of a door-to-door heroin dealer during labor, they generally laugh, but I'm dead serious.
*IF* i had not known myself as completely as i do, and if I had chosen to labor in a place that offerred drugs....i SO would have taken them....if it were offerred to me, I would have killed a child to get drugs, I am absolutely not kidding.

On the other hand, I totally agree with the OP.
It DIDN'T MATTER that i was in excruciating hellish pain.
My body knew what to do and did it, with no help from me thank you very much, and DD flew out after 16 hours of the hellish torture, with absolutely no intervention or active anything on my part at all.

CPST
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:16 AM
 
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My body knew what to do and did it, with no help from me thank you very much, and DD flew out after 16 hours of the hellish torture, with absolutely no intervention or active anything on my part at all.
I took the epidural after about 10 hours of torture ... and after 3 hours of pushing that was even more painful (despite the epidural!), he was still stuck. I had a C-section. I don't know if things would have gone differently if I hadn't gotten the epidural, but I do know that nothing went as planned, and nothing in the dozens of natural birthing/midwife books I read prepared me for any of it.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:40 AM
 
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Seriously, what is our problem here?!!

Lawyers and babies who do NOT have perfect outcomes.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:45 AM
 
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Finally someone said it!!!

You know my mom met a man from Africa on a plane to Sweden not too long ago. He told her how in his village 98% of the babies are born at home and most labours are around 1-2 hours MAX.

Seriously, what is our problem here?!!
Nutrition.

The Africans that still adhere to a mostly traditional diet that is nutrient dense are the ones probably having 1-2 hour labors. Most Americans are nutritionally deficient and are the product of generations of nutritionally deficient parents. Its no wonder that labor has become harder and more painful for lots of us. Our hips have become more narrow due to the nutrient deficiencies as well. Its not just the Africans that have easy labors but the Eskimos do too (or at least the ones still eating the traditional diet). If you want to know more about it, read Dr. Weston A. Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration.
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Old 01-04-2007, 05:49 AM
 
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For the cross-cultural comparison question, I think there's likely a huge difference in how we define "labor". My guess would be that the "labor" he's referring to encompasses only transition and birth. It's not that I think the comparison isn't valuable, only that I suspect our terms don't exactly translate across the cultures, y'know?

To add to the original topic, one of my favorites is digestion. Sure, an IV or nasogastric tube can sustain you with nutrients, and sometimes that's better and more healthy than eating, but if you had the option, wouldn't you prefer a Thanksgiving feast? Or a plate of chocolate cookies, or a bowl of soup, or whatever you felt like eating right then... Plus there's the "but so many things can go wrong with digestion!" aspect - you could choke, or get food poisoning, or swallow a bone, or... But the interventions required to "prevent" those occurances 1) probably wouldn't (wouldn't you be more likely to choke - pun intended - with an anxious audience?), and 2) would ruin the experience, even if you were still able to consume the food.

I'm actually not a huge fan of the sex comparison, unless, like here, it's mixed in with a lot of others. Some babies AREN'T conceived with loving sex (it could be functional sex, or horrible sex, or not sex at all, or a surgical procedure involving lots of doctors and nurses you hardly know). It doesn't actually require a "sexy" atmosphere for babies to be born - sure, it helps the process, but it isn't the only way for it to get done. (Although the same is true of sex - it's pretty amazing the conditions in which sex can and do occur: family bed, anyone? or as a friend of mine said, with Baby Einstein playing in the background? in the office closet, or on a subway, or in front of cameras?)

And, of course, sometimes birth is just overwhelmingly painful or dysfuctional. The odds of that occuring can be minimized, and in a good birth-supporting culture it's really rare, but it does occur. Sometimes you do choke; sometimes sex is traumatic and painful. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. It doesn't mean we should discount anyone's experience, of course. But we should acknowledge it's not how things generally go, which is the point of these analogies.
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Old 01-04-2007, 06:39 AM
 
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My mom asked him how long the contractions lasted from very start to very finish and he clarified that is what he meant by labour. It's very interesting.
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:07 AM
 
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I feel the same way as the OP honestly and more and more lately I've been finding myself saying that I don't need someone to watch me eat in case I choke or watch me poop in case I tear (I'm an IBS momma too and man those rectal tears have definitely been up there with my perineal tear last birth LOL.) and if someone were to supervise me doing any of those or many potentially "dangerous" normal occurences in my life (Could you imagine someone supervising your driving?) I'd be flustered, nervous and WOULD LIKELY PERFORM POORLY and would probably increase my own chances of needing that "help".

While I agree that there's much more at stake in giving birth, I REALLY hate the societal attitude towards birth. It's been impossible for me to get care from someone that's okay with sitting in another room unless I call them when they're needed. It's not accepted that I may not need any help at all, and sadly because of the fact that if I wish my birth legally attended I would have to subject myself and babe to such supervision/monitoring. Which would in all actuality make the experience more likely to go "wrong" IMO. Not many other options out there where I live. Yay for UC though, but it's so sad that there can't be "I'll be there if you need me." care where I live.
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:44 AM
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i am also frustrated with the societal perspectives of birth.

i agree that c-sections and hospital care and whatnot are valuable. but what i'm not comfortable with is how the culture defers to this as 'normal care' or 'appropriate care' and how this impacts birthing women and their children (negatively IMO).
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Old 01-04-2007, 01:04 PM
 
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I'm in the "I had an excruciatingly painful birth and my body did not just do exactly what it was supposed to when left completely alone" (UC hospital transfer) camp. HOWEVER, I still agree, and would consider another UC if I can't find a provider who will LEAVE ME ALONE in birth.

After giving birth, for me, all of active labor felt A LOT like sex, with cramping pain with each contraction. Not bad or unbearable, but there was a lot going on, and my cervix dilating felt just like deep penetrating sex. Hence, I made the same noises. I don't know if I would feel comfortable making sex/orgasm noises in front of strange nurses and even the doctor I'm very familiar with. You know, just how I wouldn't have sex in front of them with my husband. My sexual desire and relaxation would just stop. I think the same thing would happen, to a large degree, with birth.

Then, when pushing came, it was a lot like pooping, but with absolutely intense, over-the-top agony (for 7+hrs). I hated it, but I'm not a huge fan of pooping as a recreational activity, either. I knew, through the whole labor and birth, that nothing was wrong. Everything was going fine, it just felt horrible.

When I was pregnant, dh and I talked about it and I compared it to someone "helping" you poop. Imagine you see a doctor to make sure you're pooping correctly. He says, "Let's do some tests and make sure everything's ok in there." So you get an anal exam, which is uncomfortable and intrusive, but just to make sure everything is ok (which it is). Then the doctor recommends a u/s, just to make sure the poop isn't too big to come out. So you get the u/s, and your doctor says, "Wow, that's a pretty big poop! You'd better let me know when you feel the need to go so we can make sure this turns out ok." Well, you're worried now - you never had trouble with pooping before, but heck. This one's BIG! So you go to the hospital when you feel like you might need to poop (but before you really have the urge) and people keep sticking their fingers up your butt to tell you whether or not you're ready to poop.

Ok, so that's kind of silly (I could continue the analogy but I'll stop there, lol - "Quick, he needs an episiotomy! Get the forceps!" ), and there is definitely more risk associated with childbirth than with pooping, but I do think it's a valuable analogy because it reminds us (as if we needed it) that birth IS a natural process the body is designed for, and if left unhindered and comfortable, will probably go much more smoothly than if interefered with. After talking with dh about it, he agreed that it would be pretty much impossible for him to poop with various people inspecting him and telling him what his progress was.

Sometimes, interference is valuable and needed. But it is so frustrating to see the crazy overmanagement of birth that goes on in hospitals, and sometimes with midwives too. Drives me nuts. The only help I needed in labor was someone to (1) help me recognize that it was time to push (and push a lip of cervix out of the way if it was needed) and (2) give me a little help pushing efficiently. That was it - otherwise I could have done it completely on my own. Next time I probably could, which is why I want someone really hands-off!

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Old 01-04-2007, 01:10 PM
 
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I agree wholeheartedly! What really saddens me is watching my sisters give their power away. WHY are women so afraid to stand up for what they believe or feel or need? Why is intuition scoffed at so much, doubted and devalued? And WHY, WHY, WHY do so many women just let others tell them what to do? I understand that not everyone reads midwifery texts for fun, and that not everyone is as into birth as me, but it really saddens me when woman after woman needs an "expert" to tell them what to do all the time!
That said, I'm not trying to slam those women who need that, or who aren't on the same boat. I just really want to see women regain their integrity and strength, especially when it comes to birth and motherhood. I'm not blaming the women, I guess, I'm frustrated with where our society's headed. And it's getting this way with everything, not just birth, but healthcare in general, food, education, you name it! People are forgetting that they have a choice and a voice and an inner guide that believe it or not, is generally pretty wise.
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Old 01-04-2007, 02:33 PM
 
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"I REALLY hate the societal attitude towards birth. "

I'll always wonder how much of my traumatic painful birth experience(s) came from the society I was raised in. goodness knows I did all the reading, preparing, and positivie thinking in the world to tell myself it wouldn't be the way society said it would be. Was it just not big enough to overcome a lifetime of those messages?

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and The Nurture Center Store and Resource Center 3399 Mt Diablo Bl Lafayette CA 888-998-BABY
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:31 PM
 
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Great post.

I remember thinking how ridiculous I was to have brought scented candles and a CD of mood music to my labor I didn't give a crap about anything at that point but one thing is for sure, I never would have accepted any kind of drug for pain, never even crossed my mind. I'm also confused about why some women don't "understand" how to push. For me it was exactly like going poo except out of another orifice

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Old 01-04-2007, 03:40 PM
 
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Thank you for this thread, OP, and the subsequent posts. As a woman preparing to give birth for the first time in the next few weeks, it's really empowering to hear your words. My body and my baby thank you!
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:53 PM
 
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When I started having more labor-like contractions as opposed to the BH I had been feeling for weeks I went in.The contractions were timeable and I couldn't walk or talk during them so I thought this must be labor.I was monitored and strapped down overnight and by morning they had petered out.I was told it was just "false" labor and real labor feels like it is coming across your belly form front to back.Every time I've been in labor since then I have never felt it as it is alays described in text books.Mine have always felt like I really had to poop, the kind of cramps when you run for the toilet and privacy cuz its not going to be "polite".
I spent my second labor in the bathroom on the toilet becuase it was more private than laboring in bed and using the bedpan on a stool next to the bed the nurse had so graciously suggested I should do.
With each birth I've had I've felt and learned more about myself and how I really don't need to be managed I just need a saftey net that is not hovering over me.Its sad that I didn't know these things from the beginning and that if you are considered high risk there is no chance of even having any real choices in how you birth and what happens to your body and baby.

joy.gifme, herding 5 critters a cat and a dog. DS 11/01, DS 10/04, DD 2/06, DS 5/07 and DD 9/10

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Old 01-04-2007, 05:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skueppers
I really think some of this stuff depends a great deal on the woman. [...] I've never been bothered by a vaginal exam in my life. I certainly don't find them humiliating; generally I don't even find them uncomfortable.
A vaginal exam doesn't have to be felt as humiliating or uncomfortable in order for it to be a pointless interference. In order for a mother to have a vaginal exam, she has to get into an unnatural and impeding position, as far as labor goes, and is at the very least aware that a clinical procedure is being done to her and the judgments made by it that she may mull over and may feel the need to act on, which puts her "in her head" to some degree, which interferes with normal hormonal release.

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During my last birth, I was happy to have occasional vaginal exams -- I found that they helped me understand what was going on, particularly since I didn't recognize transition until after it was over, when I learned through a vaginal exam that I was fully dilated.
Birth is biologically a primal, instinctive, autonomic and involuntary function of the body. It's not something one needs to recognize the stages of to be able to do. Why do you feel you needed to know you were fully dilated, unless you were planning on bypassing that instinctive autonomic process in some way?

This is exactly part of what the OP is getting at, I think. Most people no longer regard birth as a primal, instinctive process, and so do not treat it as one, and so have no basis for which to understand it as one. So it becomes -- we make it -- this crazy nonsensical unnatural thing, and that's the norm, and a great many people have no idea just how crazy and unnatural it is.
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Old 01-04-2007, 08:31 PM
 
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Rocket science? Maybe not. Worst pain I've ever experienced in my life? Yes. First experience I've ever had that made me wish I were dead? Yes. There's no possibility of feeling safe and secure when you're in that kind of pain. There's nothing nice or sexy about it. I had the hot tub, dim lights, CDs of my favorite soothing music, a good birth plan drawn up. When the time came, I realized that I couldn't care less about the lighting or the music or any of the rest of it. Poked and prodded? Sure, whatever. I didn't care what anyone did. Nothing mattered to me anymore. I'd have taken heroin if you'd offered it to me then. Anything to stop the pain.

Simple process, maybe, but it sure as hell isn't easy.

I jsut wnat to say, and to the other people who have this outlook, I am very sorry that you had sucha difficult experience. It isnt like that for everyone, or most people for that matter. I firmly believe most people who have such negative memories of Labor had, for one reason or another, a very negative state of mind going into the process.

and to the OP, thank you for this!!

Lisa~Was Aspiring Midwife~Now-AAMI Midwifery Student #2020~Mama to Zackery 3/29/96, Drake 9/22/01, and Selina 10/26/03...and here was the link to my new blog
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Old 01-04-2007, 08:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post
Birth is biologically a primal, instinctive, autonomic and involuntary function of the body. It's not something one needs to recognize the stages of to be able to do. Why do you feel you needed to know you were fully dilated, unless you were planning on bypassing that instinctive autonomic process in some way?
Personally, I prefer to understand what's going on during childbirth from an intellectual as well as an emotional point of view. I found having some kind of a clue as to how far along things were and what I might expect to be helpful. For example, knowing that I was fully dilated, but that my baby was still very high, helped me to make the decision not to try any kind of active pushing until about three hours later, when the baby had descended further.

Different approaches are right for different people. If this isn't a piece of information you find helpful during your births, then by all means, you shouldn't have it. But suggesting that everyone would be best served by taking one specific approach to birth seems a little ridiculous.

Sonja , 40, married to DH (42) since 5-29-93, DD born 11-3-2004, DS born 1-18-2007.
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:22 PM
 
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Yay for you, tinyshoes! The more I work in birth the more I undo my own socialising and see how birthing just isn't a medical process unless something dire and unexpected occurs. Gee, you know what? That sounds a lot like LIFE, hey?!
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:06 AM
 
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Finally someone said it!!!

You know my mom met a man from Africa on a plane to Sweden not too long ago. He told her how in his village 98% of the babies are born at home and most labours are around 1-2 hours MAX.

Seriously, what is our problem here?!!
Let's see, where do I start... ? : :

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by fourlittlebirds View Post

This is exactly part of what the OP is getting at, I think. Most people no longer regard birth as a primal, instinctive process, and so do not treat it as one, and so have no basis for which to understand it as one. So it becomes -- we make it -- this crazy nonsensical unnatural thing, and that's the norm, and a great many people have no idea just how crazy and unnatural it is.
Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head. So true!

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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Old 01-05-2007, 02:55 AM
 
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I can really see it though:

Sometimes you know it is coming out NOW and FAST.

Sometimes it takes days to get it out!

Then the majority of the healthy time it comes out just like it always does. Very predictable.

Sometimes it is effortless.

Sometimes you have to sit there straining for who knows how long.

Sometimes in extreme situations you need supplements or outside help.

And what does it all depend on? Our state of health! For BOTH things. What and how much we eat, drink, and exercise.

Yes it is a natural thing, just like pooping.

But we are all different according to our lifestyle, health and conditions.
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