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#31 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 02:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Shawnee View Post
Nevertheless, there is nothing they can do if you insist on taking the baby. If you tell them clearly that you are taking/keeping the baby and refusing tests, AMA and you will sign off on that, they must comply. They would have to get a court order to do otherwise.

Having said that, they will manipulate you and undermine you in ways that that you can't even imagine until it begins happening. They also may call CPS on you.

I refused to let ds go the the NICU after his birth, and I had to deal with a horrible uproar in the operating room/recovery room/the rest of the hospital stay. I had a couple visits from a social worker before and after leaving the hospital, hospital staff worked hard to turn my family against me (they got angry with me too), they manipulated the results of tests on ds to make it look like he was sick, they told everyone about me so I faced hostility at every turn. However, in the end they had to comply to my wishes.

Why go through that stress if you don't have to? I'd never give birth in a hospital again if I had the choice. However, if you want a hospital birth, you have the right to refuse any testing, you have the right to keep your baby, you have the right to leave. Just be prepared.
YOu are in Canada. Things may be different there.

I think you should consider a homebirth. Why deal with such hostility and meanness when you should be enjoying your new baby?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#32 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 04:37 AM
 
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They would have to get a court order to do otherwise.
Then that is what they will do. I can't speak for other locations. But in Houston it is not at all unheard of for hospitals to get court orders.
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#33 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama View Post
However, you have the right to stand up for your baby in the hospital and say no to their policies. As a first time mom, I might have been pushed around some, but now - I would completely and absolutely be prepared to sue them - and if I thought I was going into a hostile situation - I'd have a lawyer already. If they tried to intimidate me by calling security - I'd call my lawyer immediately. If I ever had to have a baby in the hospital knowing what I know now - I WOULD NOT LET THAT BABY OUT OF MY SIGHT. And this is why I chose a homebirth!!!
I did call my lawyer from the hospital, but there was nothing they could do, as it WAS in the hospital policy and I was seen as "that crazy woman who doesn't want to follow hospital policy".
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#34 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 05:29 AM
 
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Since you don't feel comfortable in the student housing, and you have considered homebirth, have you thought about having a "homebirth" in a local hotel? You could splurge on a fancy room with a hot tub and without the paper thin walls And you don't have to worry about noise because you never have to see those people again. It's something I considered but settled on home since we are close to a hospital.

I LOVE that idea.... as long as I didnt cause a disturbance with people in rooms nearby! lol. I am gouing to definately remember that!
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#35 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 10:49 AM
 
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Then that is what they will do. I can't speak for other locations. But in Houston it is not at all unheard of for hospitals to get court orders.
I doubt they will get a court order for a mother who refuses to let her baby get weighed, get vit k, etc.

Let me be clear here, I'm not arguing for a hospital birth. I think the hospital is a horribly stressful place to give birth, and they are experts at manipulation. The likelihood of getting everything you want is almost 0. I intend to have a UC next time, and personally I feel that everyone should have a UC.

I just want the OP to know her rights to refuse to consent. No matter what the hospital staff say, you don't have to let them take your baby away from you and you don't have to let them do anything to the baby or you. If I had to transfer to hospital, I'd get my baby in my arms right away and refuse to put him down until I got home.
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#36 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 11:33 AM
 
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I did call my lawyer from the hospital, but there was nothing they could do, as it WAS in the hospital policy and I was seen as "that crazy woman who doesn't want to follow hospital policy".
Aw mama, I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. What a crappy way to treat a new mom! I hope you filed a ton of complaints afterwards. That just makes my blood boil to know they treated you so badly for trying to be a good mom. Grrrrrrrrr.
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#37 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to chime in and say thank you to all! We have *no idea* what we'll end up planning for this baby's delivery, but your responses have been and will be a tremendous aid to our discussions.
Thanks again!
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#38 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 04:30 AM
 
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I doubt they will get a court order for a mother who refuses to let her baby get weighed, get vit k, etc.
Well, welcome to Texas.

I'm not being snarky, but seriously.

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I just want the OP to know her rights to refuse to consent.
And they have the right to overrule your refusal.

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If I had to transfer to hospital, I'd get my baby in my arms right away and refuse to put him down until I got home.
If you have to transfer, pump and keep your baby at home with another breastfeeding mama. Don't take the baby unless it's the baby that needs care.
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#39 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 10:32 AM
 
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And they have the right to overrule your refusal.
I respectively disagree. Legally, in Texas, the only things they can do in spite of refusal are urgent, life-saving measures like resuscitation. However, I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation in Texas, and admit I have no idea whether hospital staff may be routinely ignoring the law.

Anyway, I really didn't mean to hi-jack this thread with a debate, so my apologies to the OP. Blessings to you and your babe!
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#40 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 12:55 PM
 
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I respectively disagree. Legally, in Texas, the only things they can do in spite of refusal are urgent, life-saving measures like resuscitation. However, I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation in Texas, and admit I have no idea whether hospital staff may be routinely ignoring the law.

Anyway, I really didn't mean to hi-jack this thread with a debate, so my apologies to the OP. Blessings to you and your babe!

Legal or not, the can and do and have not yet been stopped.

-Angela
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#41 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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Legal or not, the can and do and have not yet been stopped.

-Angela
And my dh wondered why I flat out refused to move to Texas due to childbearing issues! (He's from Texas)
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#42 of 51 Old 01-26-2007, 05:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama View Post
And my dh wondered why I flat out refused to move to Texas due to childbearing issues! (He's from Texas)
Well as long as you're not in a hospital, birthing is GREAT in TX! Homebirth midwives can attend anything they want

And to be fair, this is the environment in *Houston* the great medical city. I doubt it's as bad in other cities.

-Angela
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#43 of 51 Old 01-28-2007, 02:32 AM
 
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Legally, in Texas, the only things they can do in spite of refusal are urgent, life-saving measures like resuscitation. However, I bow to your superior knowledge of the situation in Texas, and admit I have no idea whether hospital staff may be routinely ignoring the law.
To this not funny topic. I don't think it's a hijac or a debate. Are they ignoring the law? Sure. Do they know about the law? Not sure they always do. But the thing is, legally, they can make anything appear that it was a life-saving effort.

Anyone who has ever requested medical records from ANY medical institution knows that what happens, what's recorded, and what's legally pursuable are alllllll different.

I could give personal examples, but I am advised by my lawyer not to.
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#44 of 51 Old 01-28-2007, 02:35 AM
 
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And to be fair, this is the environment in *Houston* the great medical city. I doubt it's as bad in other cities.
: Actually I've heard some other cities in TX are worse.

Angela's right though, the homebirth climate is good. The transfer climate is not so good. Not horrid...but not so good. The hospital birth climate is...well....

Let's say Houston is only a "great medical city" in its own mind. :
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#45 of 51 Old 01-28-2007, 03:16 AM
 
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I don't know how it works where you live, but I imagine it goes by provider more than anything. Do you have midwives that do hospital births or less medically minded doctors?

If I were to have a hospital birth with a midwife and everything went fine, I would be discharged within two hours since they provide so much home support.
that's how my birth went! we arrived at the hospital when i was 9 cm (i should have called the midwife earlier, but my early labour was so easy i didn't think it was "real"), had the baby just over an hour later, and went home 3 hours after that. baby was never out of my sight, let alone out of the room. there were no hospital staffers in the room either - just our midwives - except for one person who gave my husband some paperwork to fill out, and one who knocked on the door and said "you have visitors" and that was it.

we could have had the little guy at home, really, but i'm glad we went to hospital - "just in case" since you never know what's going to happen, and also because birth is messy!!
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#46 of 51 Old 01-28-2007, 03:38 AM
 
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There would be no maternity ward without the WOMEN who come there.

Reading all these posts makes me feel so sad and so angry. My first child was born in a hospital; they missed his bowel obstruction because they thought I was a neurotic, overanxious first time mother. He went to the nursery for observation....they failed to observe that he didn't pass meconium. I had to leave the hospital and go to a pediatric hospital, where he had surgery almost immediately. We got to know hospitals pretty well after that. You walk a fine line there….because, they have your kid. Don’t fool yourself that hospitals are the safe place for babies. Please, though, if you are treated badly, write them….write the chief of staff AND the CEO…send copies to as many people as you can think of. Terrible things will still happen there as long as people don’t realize their power to change them. Voting with your feet is one option…but let them know first. Sadly, some women HAVE to go there; we need to make it better for all of them.
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#47 of 51 Old 01-29-2007, 03:50 AM
 
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There would be no maternity ward without the WOMEN who come there.

Reading all these posts makes me feel so sad and so angry. My first child was born in a hospital; they missed his bowel obstruction because they thought I was a neurotic, overanxious first time mother. He went to the nursery for observation....they failed to observe that he didn't pass meconium. I had to leave the hospital and go to a pediatric hospital, where he had surgery almost immediately. We got to know hospitals pretty well after that. You walk a fine line there….because, they have your kid. Don’t fool yourself that hospitals are the safe place for babies. Please, though, if you are treated badly, write them….write the chief of staff AND the CEO…send copies to as many people as you can think of. Terrible things will still happen there as long as people don’t realize their power to change them. Voting with your feet is one option…but let them know first. Sadly, some women HAVE to go there; we need to make it better for all of them.
First of all I am sorry for everything you went through. It makes me sad to hear all these stories of women not being heard, not being respected. It is just not right. It seems like common sense is often thrown out the window in favor of the bottom line.

I've been thinking about what you said above lately. What happened to me and my baby during my first birth was the exact opposite of what should have happened. I birthed at Kaiser Hospital (Zion) in San Diego. I was given an unneccessary csection, food/water was withheld (mmm, yummy ice chips ) , pitocin administered against my wishes, pressured into epidural, separated from babe, eye goop administered, etc.- the whole nine yards. The only part of my birth plan that was respected was my son was not circumcised. (thank god he wasn't -I've heard horror stories of hospitals doing this too) I have this urge to sue for an unneccessary csection but am certain it would have no impact, not to mention how would I even go about doing that? So what can I do, 3 years after the fact. Any advice?

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#48 of 51 Old 01-29-2007, 12:13 PM
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Anyone who has ever requested medical records from ANY medical institution knows that what happens, what's recorded, and what's legally pursuable are alllllll different.
So true!!!!! My last birth, the medical records say my baby was fine, head down, etc. Even the surgeons notes say my baby was head down, but what do they say for why an emergency c-section was needed? For a breech baby!

I did call lawyers and sent a few of them my records and none were willing to help. They said there was not enough money in it for them.
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#49 of 51 Old 02-08-2007, 01:46 AM
 
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MITB that is
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#50 of 51 Old 02-08-2007, 12:20 PM
 
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Wow that's crazy!

All the hospitals around here have the opposite policy: you must room-in with your baby, regardless of how you feel about it.
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#51 of 51 Old 02-08-2007, 12:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ColoradoMama View Post
Okay, policies - schmolicies. This is YOUR baby. You are responsible for her. Barring an emergency - tough luck for them. Baby is born - you hold baby - you nurse baby - you hold baby some more. Them: "We need to weigh the baby" Dh hands puts baby in weighing thingy - they measure, weight, etc. Then dh grabs baby back quickly and gives baby back to you. Them: "We need to take the baby to the nursery." You: "No. My baby needs to stay with me." Them: "Well, it's our hospital policy." You: "This is my baby and s/he needs to stay with me." Them: "We need to observe the baby." You: "You're free to stay with us." Getting the picture? This child is your child - they cannot force you to make him go to the nursery. Barring an emergency - the CANNOT take him anywhere without you if you give them strict instructions to that effect.
this is GREAT advice....you should rollplay with your husband....have him practice saying....NO....i won't sign any forms....that is NOT acceptable....i want to speek to the charge nurse if this is a problem.....i don't care if it is hospital policy.... in a firm but calm voice!

while you are in labor and recovering post partum your husband (or birth partner) is your biggest advocate and he needs to know what your wishes are and needs to be ready to stand up for them! Tell him not to let that baby out of his site, and to not let anyone push him around regarding both of your wishes....if they insist on taking the baby...hubby goes with and stays within arm length at all times....and dont let him take NO for an answer!

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If you have to transfer, pump and keep your baby at home with another breastfeeding mama. Don't take the baby unless it's the baby that needs care.
this is sneeky.....yet such a great idea!
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