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#1 of 51 Old 01-19-2007, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey! We're living in a student housing, one bedroom, 2nd floor apartment in which I don't feel comfortable even singing after 5:00 because the walls are so thin. Given that DH is not really supportive of a homebirth and that I'm not really sure I'd even want to deliver our baby where I don't even feel 'at-home,' we are pretty much planning to deliver in a hospital. (The birth centers available to us are not good options either.)
The problem is, I really have a beef with the reality of hospital policies getting in the way of new-family bonding. My 1st born was a preemie and was in the hospital for a month. While his being there was necessary, the entire time I felt like they were holding him hostage. There were several feeding issues that left tons of "if-I-only-knew-then-what-I-know-now" and I hate the germ factor of hospitals anyway.
This time around, if everything is okay and fine, I don't want to be separated from my baby AT ALL. Maybe for weighing and measuring - in the same room - but that's about it.
DH understands that it's either that or a homebirth neither of us really wants, but neither one of us knows exactly what uphill battles we might face and we'd like to be prepared. Must we leave AMA in order to avoid their taking the baby to the nursery? Is there a way to negotiate with administrators ahead of time to get a pass on many of their policies? If we do discharge against medical advice, would any CPS or financial/Medicaid threats have any teeth (we live in TX)? Have any of you ever left AMA before after labor &/or delivery? Any advice would be welcome...!
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#2 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 01:54 AM
 
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I don't the answers but wanted to bump this up for you

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#3 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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I don't know how it works where you live, but I imagine it goes by provider more than anything. Do you have midwives that do hospital births or less medically minded doctors?

If I were to have a hospital birth with a midwife and everything went fine, I would be discharged within two hours since they provide so much home support.

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#4 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 02:22 AM
 
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REALLY depends on the hospital.... call around and check their policies.. many hospitals no longer even have well-baby nurseries... and they leave you alone to co-sleep etc... (I'd still be vigilant that no one whisks your baby of for a hep b vax and stuff) but we had no issues at all with them taking the nbabies away... as a matter of fact, with DD they needed to take her to another room for her hearing test and were PLEASED that I went with her.

And if you are healthy and doing well, they'll probably be happy to send you home early... some hospitals may ask that you bring baby back for a check-up if you leave before 24 hours are up though.

Would a home birth be better - SURE under better circumstances but, do a hospital tour, you may be surprised...
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#5 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 07:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for your replies! Yeah, we're back to considering homebirth, but we're still not sure. However, seeing stuff like this sure isn't making our decision any easier --
(The hospital we're considering actually has the following in their brochure):

"Right after your baby is born - providing all is well with you and your new child - you will be able to cuddle and hold it. You may wish to breastfeed. Following the transition period for the baby, which is usually three to four hours after birth, the baby can go to your room."

AAAAAAK!! Transition period?! Three to four hours?!! WTH?!?!! That's the kind of stuff that just seems so stupid that surely reasonable adults wouldn't mind changing up the system a bit if it were politely requested of them to do so, no?! (Or am I only dreaming?)
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#6 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 07:31 PM
 
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AAAAAAK!! Transition period?! Three to four hours?!! WTH?!?!! That's the kind of stuff that just seems so stupid that surely reasonable adults wouldn't mind changing up the system a bit if it were politely requested of them to do so, no?! (Or am I only dreaming?)
You're dreaming. Hospitals LOVE their routines and policies. Breaking them is like moving heaven and earth.

Keep looking at homebirth. There's not a single hospital in town that qualifies as baby friendly.

-Angela
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#7 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 09:18 PM
 
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You're dreaming. Hospitals LOVE their routines and policies. Breaking them is like moving heaven and earth.

Keep looking at homebirth. There's not a single hospital in town that qualifies as baby friendly.

-Angela
Not all hospitals are this way. Also, breaking hospital policy really isnt all that hard. I've done it several times and often if your doctor or ped sign off on it, its a non-issue. For example, our hospital policy says no pictures or video of the birth, however the practice of OBs I go too will tell you that you can and we have. This is just an example of course.

I would talk to your care provider first, then possibly make an appointment with the nurse manager of the maternity floor at the hospital you plan to deliver at. I think you will be amazed that many places are willing to accomodate you. Of course some hospitals are worse than others. If you come off as adversarial and know it allish though, you will likely meet the same in return. There are definite ways to move around policies and get what you want, but you attract more flies with honey if you know what I mean.
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#8 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 09:43 PM
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Not all hospitals are this way. Also, breaking hospital policy really isnt all that hard. I've done it several times and often if your doctor or ped sign off on it, its a non-issue.
IME, the doctor nor the ped have any say in the actual maternity ward.
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I would talk to your care provider first, then possibly make an appointment with the nurse manager of the maternity floor at the hospital you plan to deliver at.
Definitely make the appointment and go through everything. This person, if not dealt with first, has the power to make your hospital stay hell. I made the mistake of thinking the doctor's had any kind of power, and the nurses kept my baby from me for three days, and I would bet money it was 'punishment' for me asking them to leave my baby alone, etc.
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#9 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 10:09 PM
 
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You're right, not all hospitals are like that. However the OP is in the same town I am and that's the general feel here.

-Angela
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#10 of 51 Old 01-20-2007, 11:21 PM
 
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There is a reason a hospital is called an institution.

Hospitals operate for the convenience of the staff, not you.

Keep looking for a midwife. There are plenty in TX.
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#11 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 12:22 AM
 
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There are plenty in TX.
Tons of good ones in town. Feel free to PM me....

-Angela
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#12 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 01:46 AM
 
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AAAAAAK!! Transition period?! Three to four hours?!! WTH?!?!! That's the kind of stuff that just seems so stupid that surely reasonable adults wouldn't mind changing up the system a bit if it were politely requested of them to do so, no?! (Or am I only dreaming?)
Okay, policies - schmolicies. This is YOUR baby. You are responsible for her. Barring an emergency - tough luck for them. Baby is born - you hold baby - you nurse baby - you hold baby some more. Them: "We need to weigh the baby" Dh hands puts baby in weighing thingy - they measure, weight, etc. Then dh grabs baby back quickly and gives baby back to you. Them: "We need to take the baby to the nursery." You: "No. My baby needs to stay with me." Them: "Well, it's our hospital policy." You: "This is my baby and s/he needs to stay with me." Them: "We need to observe the baby." You: "You're free to stay with us." Getting the picture? This child is your child - they cannot force you to make him go to the nursery. Barring an emergency - the CANNOT take him anywhere without you if you give them strict instructions to that effect. My oldest daughter recently had some minor dental work done. The assistant said she needed to go back alone. I said, "I'm coming with her." Her: "Well, we like to have the parents stay out here." Me: "I understand, but I'm coming back with her." The dentist got involved - "Why?" "Because she's my daughter and I'm coming back with her." Getting the broken record theme here? I would absolutely make sure the your dh knows how serious you are. Talk about it over and over. Stress to him that you will be very vulnerable at that time - and you will be counting on him to advocate for you and your baby and that under no circumstances is your child to be separated from the two of you. I'd also make it clear that if it happens there will be nothing short of hell to pay!!! Good luck.
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#13 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 02:08 AM
 
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Thanks for your replies! Yeah, we're back to considering homebirth, but we're still not sure. However, seeing stuff like this sure isn't making our decision any easier --
(The hospital we're considering actually has the following in their brochure):

"Right after your baby is born - providing all is well with you and your new child - you will be able to cuddle and hold it. You may wish to breastfeed. Following the transition period for the baby, which is usually three to four hours after birth, the baby can go to your room."

AAAAAAK!! Transition period?! Three to four hours?!! WTH?!?!! That's the kind of stuff that just seems so stupid that surely reasonable adults wouldn't mind changing up the system a bit if it were politely requested of them to do so, no?! (Or am I only dreaming?)

Yikes, it sounds like you need to run from that hospital! With this pregnancy I looked in to hospitals and birthing centers but found similar BARBARIC practices, not to mention little to no support of VBAC. I have decided the only way I will get the birth my baby and I both deserve without fighting (not something I want to do in labor and no guarantees anyway) is with a midwife this time. There is no reason, barring serious medical problems, that a baby should be separated from his mother for 3 to 4 hours. The fact that they have that in writing is especially scary. If they are willing to tell you that, what else are they NOT telling you?

Since you don't feel comfortable in the student housing, and you have considered homebirth, have you thought about having a "homebirth" in a local hotel? You could splurge on a fancy room with a hot tub and without the paper thin walls And you don't have to worry about noise because you never have to see those people again. It's something I considered but settled on home since we are close to a hospital.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#14 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 02:20 AM
 
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Okay, policies - schmolicies. This is YOUR baby. You are responsible for her. Barring an emergency - tough luck for them. Baby is born - you hold baby - you nurse baby - you hold baby some more. Them: "We need to weigh the baby" Dh hands puts baby in weighing thingy - they measure, weight, etc. Then dh grabs baby back quickly and gives baby back to you. Them: "We need to take the baby to the nursery." You: "No. My baby needs to stay with me." Them: "Well, it's our hospital policy." You: "This is my baby and s/he needs to stay with me." Them: "We need to observe the baby." You: "You're free to stay with us." Getting the picture? This child is your child - they cannot force you to make him go to the nursery. Barring an emergency - the CANNOT take him anywhere without you if you give them strict instructions to that effect.
In theory I agree with you. I have a friend who gave birth in a hospital in town and they threatened to call security on her husband for just such a dialog.

-Angela
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#15 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 03:05 AM
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I'd also make it clear that if it happens there will be nothing short of hell to pay!!!
What hell? They have all the power. At a different hospital than the previous one I mentioned, they called CPS on me for breastfeeding! That's how crazy they can get when you don't follow their policies. : Thankfully, the CPS director had breastfed all three of her children or else who knows what might have happened to my baby.
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#16 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 08:43 AM
 
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If you're considering a homebirth, I urge you to go through with planning that. I had my daughter in a hospital, and it was so ridiculous that I had to fight them every step of the way over every little thing. You sound like you know exactly what you want during and after giving birth. If you have a hunch your values aren't going to be respected, don't put yourself through fighting their policies when you should be bonding with your baby peacefully.
Good luck!
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#17 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 11:52 AM
 
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My DH hounded the nurses when DD was born and besides from a 30 min trip to the nursery (and he went with her) she didnt leave my side. He explained to the them what happened with DS (separated, didnt see him for 4 hours, then only for 2 minutes and then not again till the next day) and my PPD and though they were slightly aggravated they did pretty much let us do what we wanted. It wasnt the kind of thing though that we could have called and made plans for, kwim. DH just did his best and he did awesome.
It was also policy for babies of c/s moms to spend the first night in the nursery if no one was with mom. I didnt know that and sent DH home to be with DS. When the nurse told me that I put up a fight and told her I would call DH back, and that they werent taking my baby. She said ok let me take her for 5 minutes to say that I did and then I'll get her back to you. So she did, and DD was back in 5 with the nurse saying she was hungry (wink wink) and they left us alone together all night.
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#18 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 04:44 PM
 
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I don't have any experience with leaving AMA...

But, with my first child she stayed with me, never leaving me except for the weighing which was about 2 feet from the bed...untill she had issues (she was about 5-6 weeks premature)...then they took her to the nicu for a little while (a few hours at most) then they brought her back to me and she never left me again. My son was born full term and he NEVER left my arms except to be weighed at about 2 hours old, and then to go into DH's arms when I went to the bathroom...that's it, no one even suggested a nursery to me, in fact, our hospital only has a nursery available for healthy babies if they are having a slow night and there is a nurse free.

Jillian wife to Ryan and mommy to Janelle Ashlynn (9/09/2002), Kincaid Chance (3/29/2004), Travis Neil (8/13/2007) and River Anderson (5/02/2009).
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#19 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 10:18 PM
 
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Okay, policies - schmolicies. This is YOUR baby. You are responsible for her. .
No, the hospital is responsible for your baby legally until they release the baby to your care. They make sure your baby is healthy enough to leave the hospital. They make sure and document the weight, the length, the first breath, the first bath, the first alimenation, the first urination, the first feeding, and all of the test results, e.g., PKU, thyroid, glucose levels, for the record. The hearing is tested, the reflexes are tested, the Vitamin K and Hep B shots are administered so the baby can withstand all of the poking, and the eyes are filled with antibiotic gel because no one knows who the mother slept with the night before. Did I miss anything?



Your concerns about the baby are secondary to their desires to record and do things.

As I said, the hospital is an institution.

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I'd also make it clear that if it happens there will be nothing short of hell to pay!!!
You are on their turf; what are you going to sue for? What are your damages? Every nurse from miles around and every OB/GYN will line up in court to testify that everything done was necessary and important to the health and welfare of your baby....and what do you know? You are only a woman, a mother. That is all.

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I have a friend who gave birth in a hospital in town and they threatened to call security on her husband for just such a dialog.
or CPS or the police, or they could hospitalize the mother in the psychiatric unit. So much fun!
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#20 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 10:27 PM
 
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IME, the doctor nor the ped have any say in the actual maternity ward.
Definitely make the appointment and go through everything. This person, if not dealt with first, has the power to make your hospital stay hell. I made the mistake of thinking the doctor's had any kind of power, and the nurses kept my baby from me for three days, and I would bet money it was 'punishment' for me asking them to leave my baby alone, etc.

Actually they do(telling you otherwise is BS because they dont care to help you). They are the ones who govern policy and can break it. I have not been strapped to an OR table for my last two csections and its been made clear that I will not be. Yet this is hospital policy. My babies have not had eye goop put in their eyes, given HepB shots, or bathed -- my ped signed off on this, even though it is hospital policy. My last baby had all her care in our room, including treatment for jaundice (which is normally done in the nursery) -- my ped signed off on this too. Most of my requests in the OR are against "policy" Yet in the last five years I have been accomodated twice because of my caregivers. So I think they have a lot of weight when it comes to so called policy. My SIL and friends have had babies in the same hospital and requested the same things, but their doctors will use the excuse "hospital policy" when frankly they could say something and their wishes granted. There would be no maternity ward without the OBs there, and that is where a lot of the $$$ comes into a hospital -- dont think they have no weight, if they claim they don't, its a line of crap.
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#21 of 51 Old 01-21-2007, 10:34 PM
 
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What hell? They have all the power. At a different hospital than the previous one I mentioned, they called CPS on me for breastfeeding! That's how crazy they can get when you don't follow their policies. : Thankfully, the CPS director had breastfed all three of her children or else who knows what might have happened to my baby.
I must come off as a real hell cat because as I see it they have no power. Of course I have left AMA, and told nurses to leave me the hell alone with success. I guess I have also made those things my last resort and I have also made sure there were witnesses. I try not to come off as adversarial and have made arrangements ahead of time for most my wants and desires, especially if they comflicted with so called hospital policy.

Also, my advice is to request a copy of the hospital policy. Lots of things they say are policy -- are not. They just say they are so you will give permission to do whatever. There are women in our community that believe the hospital I go too do not do VBACs and were told it was policy -- its a certain practices policy, not that of the hospital. The hospital teaches a VBAC class and do quite a number of them.
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#22 of 51 Old 01-22-2007, 12:49 AM
 
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Certain hospitals, docs, and peds in town are better than others. But if you don't want to deal with hospitals, look further into homebirthing. Homebirthing in this city is fairly straight forward. Also, IF I HAD to have a baby in a hospital here, I do have the name of a doc and her hospital where I feel fairly confident one could get decent service. Also, having a ped who will write order appropriately as well as be willing to do check ups for the baby in the room is key. I know two peds like this.

Still, homebirth if you want one, is doable here. Even with thin walls.

You're welcome to PM me.

ETA: What aj says is right. And here more than some other places. The hospital has legal responsibility for the baby. AND it is not unheard of for them to use that legal right to separate parents and their babies. I've heard some seriously scary stories.

Still, I wouldn't let fear be my motivating factor to homebirth. Awareness of what can happen either way, yes. Fear, no.
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#23 of 51 Old 01-22-2007, 12:54 AM
 
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Thank you, it is nice to know when what I say is recognized as correct.
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#24 of 51 Old 01-22-2007, 12:58 AM
 
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You're quite welcome.

The scariest story here I've heard is that a mother who was an RN had a baby in a NICU. Baby needed a line changed...nurse mother kept telling the staff. They wouldn't change it. Then it became infected. The mother complained loudly. The staff got an injunction against the mother and her legally barred from coming into the NICU to see her baby. FOR a WEEK. Finally she got a lawyer to contact the judge and have it overturned. But a judge in the first place granted this....citing that the hospital's responsibility was to the baby NOT to the mother.

Very. very. very. scary.
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#25 of 51 Old 01-22-2007, 02:44 AM
 
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Since a lot of you are in the Houston area, do you know if Dr. Injac does or has overridden the 'policy' of the baby having to go to transition nursery?

DS1 2-17-07 DS2 1-1-09
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#26 of 51 Old 01-24-2007, 12:14 AM
 
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You're quite welcome.

The scariest story here I've heard is that a mother who was an RN had a baby in a NICU. Baby needed a line changed...nurse mother kept telling the staff. They wouldn't change it. Then it became infected. The mother complained loudly. The staff got an injunction against the mother and her legally barred from coming into the NICU to see her baby. FOR a WEEK. Finally she got a lawyer to contact the judge and have it overturned. But a judge in the first place granted this....citing that the hospital's responsibility was to the baby NOT to the mother.

Very. very. very. scary.
Yikes! Not even a mama with a nursing background is listened to in a situation like that? That is scary and sad. What's worse is I bet nothing happened to that hospital as a result. What if that baby had died of an infection, caused by the staff's negligence?

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#27 of 51 Old 01-24-2007, 01:51 AM
 
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No mamavegan, as far I have heard he does not. Probably the main reason being the chances of him actually being on call in a practice with 12 docs is slim. I've heard Dr. Wolens does, as well as Dr. Cohan (and they are in the same call group). Of the ones I've heard of. You have the right to refuse to send your baby to the nursery though. But keep in mind, if your ped does not support you in that, you are setting yourself up for a fight.

Eric's wifey...no kidding huh? The baby ended up healing well and finally getting released. But no the mother could not find a way to seek legal action. It is a scary and sad situation. Especially since, in this baby's case, the baby NEEDED to be in the hospital.

The hospital situation here is very. very. inflexible.
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#28 of 51 Old 01-24-2007, 11:11 AM
 
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No, the hospital is responsible for your baby legally until they release the baby to your care.
Nevertheless, there is nothing they can do if you insist on taking the baby. If you tell them clearly that you are taking/keeping the baby and refusing tests, AMA and you will sign off on that, they must comply. They would have to get a court order to do otherwise.

Having said that, they will manipulate you and undermine you in ways that that you can't even imagine until it begins happening. They also may call CPS on you.

I refused to let ds go the the NICU after his birth, and I had to deal with a horrible uproar in the operating room/recovery room/the rest of the hospital stay. I had a couple visits from a social worker before and after leaving the hospital, hospital staff worked hard to turn my family against me (they got angry with me too), they manipulated the results of tests on ds to make it look like he was sick, they told everyone about me so I faced hostility at every turn. However, in the end they had to comply to my wishes.

Why go through that stress if you don't have to? I'd never give birth in a hospital again if I had the choice. However, if you want a hospital birth, you have the right to refuse any testing, you have the right to keep your baby, you have the right to leave. Just be prepared.
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#29 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 02:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
No, the hospital is responsible for your baby legally until they release the baby to your care. They make sure your baby is healthy enough to leave the hospital. They make sure and document the weight, the length, the first breath, the first bath, the first alimenation, the first urination, the first feeding, and all of the test results, e.g., PKU, thyroid, glucose levels, for the record. The hearing is tested, the reflexes are tested, the Vitamin K and Hep B shots are administered so the baby can withstand all of the poking, and the eyes are filled with antibiotic gel because no one knows who the mother slept with the night before. Did I miss anything?
For the record, I didn't say she could take the baby from the hospital until the baby was released. However, you have the right to stand up for your baby in the hospital and say no to their policies. As a first time mom, I might have been pushed around some, but now - I would completely and absolutely be prepared to sue them - and if I thought I was going into a hostile situation - I'd have a lawyer already. If they tried to intimidate me by calling security - I'd call my lawyer immediately. If I ever had to have a baby in the hospital knowing what I know now - I WOULD NOT LET THAT BABY OUT OF MY SIGHT. And this is why I chose a homebirth!!!
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#30 of 51 Old 01-25-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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Having said that, they will manipulate you and undermine you in ways that that you can't even imagine until it begins happening. They also may call CPS on you.
Which, I have recently found out, they could get in serious trouble for doing if you are willing to follow up with it. I know this could be controversial, and I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll let it go. We should have a dealing with CPS board! How about it mods?No, I'm not really being serious.
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