The meconium poll - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Did your baby pass meconium?
The baby was overdue and had mec. 49 100.00%
The baby was on time and had mec. 31 100.00%
The baby was premature and had mec. 3 33.33%
The baby was overdue and did not have mec. 59 100.00%
The baby was on time and did not have mec. 68 100.00%
The baby was premature and did not have mec. 10 100.00%
I used castor oil to induce labor. 29 100.00%
I had pit during or to induce labor. 38 100.00%
I had an enema during or to induce labor. 5 55.56%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is in response to hearing yet again how castor oil causes babies to poop as well. When I rebutted that on the ground that it doesn't make sense, is contrary to research I've read and that there aren't actual studies showing that it does someone posted a link to a abstract of a self-reporting study that found that women who used co were more likely to have mec than those who didn't. Enemas and other things did not have this effect. Now of course my question would be what factors did they account for? IE overdue women are both more likely to use CO and have babies that have mec while some hospitals may give all women enemas. Anyway I pointed out that wasn't actually a study but was just a big anecdotal survey and that I could probably do the same here and not find a correlation. So this is a multiple choice survey so please choose all that apply.
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#2 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:18 PM
 
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No poll yet, but all the evidence I've found has been correlative, not causative. IE: Women who were overdue were more likely to have mec and they were the same group more likely to use castor oil.

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#3 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:20 PM
 
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Even if there is a correlation between mec and castor oil, what difference does it make? The issue is really the anoxia leading to an in utero gasp in the first place, and the mec that can be inhaled that way. We don't even suction on the perineum anymore, because the evidence is that the small amount of mec in the trachea isn't enough to create MAS. So if the castor oil does make babies poop, but does not cause anoxia, my response would probably be why does it matter?

I'm not being flip; I genuinely don't understand why the isolated *presence* of mec matters, particularly in a post-dates pregnancy. It can be a red flag, but usually isn't. It's the anoxia it can signal that is really the problem, because without anoxia there won't be fetal gasping (as opposed to breathing) in utero and thus no MAS.

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#4 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:21 PM
 
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I voted on-time and no mec. BUT according to most OBs she was overdue (41 weeks 2 days)

No attempts at induction of any sort.

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#5 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I definitely agree with you both but people throw it out there as a reason not to use CO (you know go with pit instead!). The abstract also noted that meconium was correlated with higher incidence of c-section and apgars of 1. Which again has more to do with handling of the labor and birth than the mec itself.

I've realized I've probably messed up the poll so that it won't be possible to know if the time you had mec was a time you used castor oil or not. For instance I had four births, 1 with mec, 2 with pit (the mec birth was a pit birth) and 2 with CO and no mec. Ah well we can just discuss I guess.
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#6 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:26 PM
 
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My ds was born at 40+11. I did have a sweep but no other attempots at induction. I know a baby who died as a direct result of his mother using castor oil to induce labour. I would never do it.
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#7 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:37 PM
 
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I've never used castor oil and never would, to me the fact the castor oil may or may not be proven to cause baby to pass meconium is niether here or there i've heard storys where its happened is enough for me to know i would never want to risk it. i've also heard of babies comeing out covered in the stuff and been so slippy they were dropped. also as causes sisckness and diareah can also cause severe dehydration in mum and then not even work anyway.
the idea of been able to $h!t through the eye of a needle whille in labour doesn't seem like a very nice prospect either

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#8 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by wasabi View Post
I definitely agree with you both but people throw it out there as a reason not to use CO (you know go with pit instead!).
Right, because pit use can't cause distress. Do people really say this? I've never heard that reasoning.

IMO, the issue is not whether meconium is present so much as what caused the meconium. In other words, is something causing distress to the baby? Taking castor oil (per Susun Weed's instructions) made me so incredibly ill. I wouldn't want to take the chance of any of it getting through to the baby for just that reason. I realize not everyone has that experience with castor oil and that most castor oil babies do fine at birth, but it's just not a variable I'm comfortable inserting into the equation, considering that for me induction was completely unnecessary anyway.
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#9 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:55 PM
 
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I wish there had been an other. My baby passed mec at 38 weeks due to an ECV. I don't think it would have happened had that not occurred.
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#10 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Right, because pit use can't cause distress. Do people really say this? I've never heard that reasoning.
That was my exact point that I woud totally believe it if they linked pit to mec because we know it gets to the baby while CO passes through the intestines.

Roxy in what way did the baby die "as a direct result" of the mother using CO? Did she induce early and the baby wasn't able to live because otherwise I'm really curious about what this direct link was.

I really don't see how it could possibly get into your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.
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#11 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:11 PM
 
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That was my exact point that I woud totally believe it if they linked pit to mec because we know it gets to the baby while CO passes through the intestines.

Roxy in what way did the baby die "as a direct result" of the mother using CO? Did she induce early and the baby wasn't able to live because otherwise I'm really curious about what this direct link was.
I really don't see how it could possibly get into your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.
She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.
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#12 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:21 PM
 
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I voted "overdue, no mec", however my living children were born "on time", just not on their due dates. No inductions.

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#13 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:30 PM
 
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I really don't see how it could possibly get into your uterus to make the baby come out slippery. That's just not how our bodies work I mean if I drink a whole lot of chocolate syrup and then my water breaks my baby is not going to come out covered in chocolate syrup. There is no way for the actual oil to get into the amnion to make the baby slippery. Certainly there are pros and cons to using co and everyone has to make that choice themselves but the oil somehow going directly from your mouth into your bag of waters? I just don't think that's based in reality.
i was just going by what i read on another site and the mw knew she had taken it cause of the coating of oil on the babies skin, and they were lucky they had just changed the bed so baby fell on a pile of sheets rather than on to the floor.
as for how it would get to baby, would it not pass to baby the same way everyone else we eat or drink does, the same way if a pregnant drank alcohol or took painkillers

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#14 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:32 PM
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DD was right on time. Ds was late and had meconium. He did not have the nicest birth.
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#15 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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as for how it would get to baby, would it not pass to baby the same way everyone else we eat or drink does, the same way if a pregnant drank alcohol or took painkillers
From my understanding 1)no castor oil is not absorbed by the intestines but instead passes straight through which is what makes you poop. 2)For the actual oil itself to get into your water is not like how alcohol or anything else we eat or drink does. It would be like if you ate a hamburger and then gave birth and there was hamburger on the baby. Or you drank orange juice and there was orange juice in the water. You're not talking about the essence of what you ate reaching the baby; you're talking about the actual thing, the oil itself, somehow reaching the baby through some direct pipeline from your mouth to the sac of water and that's not how the umbilical cord works to the best of my understanding. It would certainly make castor oil the only thing that actually works that way. Babies are slippery when they are born. They have amniotic fluid on them and they have vernix on them which is cheesey and slippery. I just don't see how on earth castor oil could possibly get from the mother's mouth into the sac of water to get on the baby's body. Does not seem at all possible though I'd love to see or hear anything that might explain how a food that was consumed would somehow get to the baby without being changed from the form it was consumed in.
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#16 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.
I absolutely understand not taking the chance.

But I do see that this is an assumption that the baby did not have meconium prior to her taking the castor oil which may or may not be true. There is no direct link which would be a finding that x compound from the castor oil caused the baby to die or if they could somehow know the baby didn't have mec prior to the co but did after she took it. Direct result is a very strong phrasing that for me only applies in very strict circumstances like "I had a near fatal hemmorhage as a direct result of the OB pulling on the cord" or "My baby was very sluggish as a direct result of the stadol I had during labor." With my only mec birth water was broken early in my labor with my second birth. Things had been going fine. I was laboring and walking around etc. Got to the hospital and they checked me and gave me an enema and shortly after broke my water and there was mec in it. What caused it? Who knows? Didn't have it with my natural births where I labored at home up until the end and did use castor oil. :
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#17 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:51 PM
 
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She took the castor oil on her due date. Within 2 hours she was having really strong contractions - the baby started to kick really strongly in her stomach and she sensed something was wrong. She went to the hospital - they performed an emergency caserean but the baby was stillborn. It had passed a lot of meconium. They said it was as a result of her taking the castor oil.
It is not a chance I would take.
It's a sad story, but it's a temporal association, not a cause. Mec is extremely common, and as I mentioned above, it's the associated anoxia that presents the risk, not the mec. Particularly for a stillbirth, since the only thing mec can cause is meconium aspiration syndrome, which is a severe chemical pneumonia and so clearly not the issue for a baby who hasn't breathed.

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#18 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 07:58 PM
 
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Had dd on time with no castor oil and there was mec, ds week over with mec no castor oil.

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#19 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 08:00 PM
 
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I agree that meconium is not an issue without nonreassuring fetal heart tones.
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#20 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 08:13 PM
 
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I had only one baby with meconiuim. She was just a few days "early". It was quite heavy and had been there for a while, since the bag of water was stained brown. Thank goodness she was born unassisted. She had no breathing trouble whatsoever, and we did not suction at all. The worst part was cleaning it out of her hair (she had quite a bit). I did not use castor oil. I wouldn't do it for two reasons. One, because I believe my babies will come when it's time. Two, because I have heard stories of horrible labors as a result of castor oil. I have never heard the castor oil=meconium association. And the slippery baby thing makes no sense to me at all.
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#21 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 08:38 PM
 
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I have never had a baby with mec even though all were 42 weeks and I had castor oil with 3 of them.

I agree I can't see how castor oil could possibly go through to the sac (or how the baby could pass mec because of it). Since I have taken it a few times I know the oil goes right through you. Kinda like corn . And it happens so fast I would wonder what would be getting absorbed and where.

Some mws won't attend hbs if there is mec so it means a transport. So some women might not want to risk it if there is the slightest chance co does cause mec.

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#22 of 68 Old 01-29-2007, 08:54 PM
 
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My baby was "late" (42 weeks) with castor oil induction and NO MEC.

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#23 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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Baby #1 = castor oil. NO mec.
Baby #2 = NO castor oil. Mec present.
Both babies on time. Both babies healthy.
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#24 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 12:39 AM
 
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With ds my water didn't break until I was fully dilated. There was no meconium.

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#25 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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My son was 10 days past my EDD. I did not use anything to induce labor other than long walks, eating spicy food and : well I'll leave that to your imagination. He had meconium.
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#26 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 05:29 AM
 
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I didn't really know how to vote. My first was induced at 18 days post dates and did not have mec. My second was spontaneous labor at 42 weeks and did have mec. I voted overdue with mec and overdue without mec but then if I click pitocin was used that would seem to flaw the results, but not clicking it doesn't seem right either. Pit was used with my non-mec baby. My baby that did have mec, had a double nuchal cord which was probably the reason for the mec (not the post dates).

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#27 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 05:49 AM
 
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41 weeks (But may have been longer), no castor oil, spontaneous labor, oxytocin in the last minutes, no meconium.
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#28 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 09:02 AM
 
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With my twins I was induced at 34w with cervidil, no pit. No mec.

With dd I had taken castor oil (although she wasn't born for 3 days after that) and no mec.

Anecdotally, I've seen more mec in moms who didn't take CO than in the moms I know who have taken it.

I don't plan to use it again. I felt very uncomfortable, there in the bathroom for about 4 hours!

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#29 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 09:16 AM
 
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My dd was 5 days overdue calculated from my know ovulation date. I was not induced and I didnt have pitocin in labor until after my water was broken and there was already mec present. I did not use co but I did do a few doses each of black and blue cohash.

 
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#30 of 68 Old 01-30-2007, 10:21 AM
 
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I was overdue, used castor oil twice (which did not work) and the baby, when finally born, did not have mec.
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