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#1 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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None of the area hospitals will 'allow' vaginal breech birth. Seperate but related issue- they've all recently voted to no longer do VBACs.
None of the homebirth midwives will touch it, either.
This leaves the option of a section or UC.
What would you do?
No birth centers here will do it, either.

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#2 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:29 PM
 
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When are you due? It looks on here not for awhile- your baby could turn.

I personally would not feel comfortable with a UC breech.
It would be a really tough call but I guess I would go for the C/s or travelt o a hospital or mw who would see me.

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#3 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:31 PM
 
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Get the opinion of a wonderful midwife from here on MDC or in your area....I would skip a UC IMO-but definetly not plan a section either-there is still plenty of time fir your baby to turn......what about a birth center with the access you would need for a breach child?
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#4 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:32 PM
 
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find a mw who will support your choice and travel there for the birth....
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#5 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:44 PM
 
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Can you go to the Farm? There's a birth story from someone who travelled from NY to the Farm to birth a breech baby that I remember reading...
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#6 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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Can you go to the Farm? There's a birth story from someone who travelled from NY to the Farm to birth a breech baby that I remember reading...
OT but I sooo wanna go to the Farm for one of those weekend retreats.....
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#7 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd love to, but I haven't been able to find any financial information on the costs of that. We don't really have a lot of disposable income, so that makes this even harder.

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#8 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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this might be totally out of fashion now, i dunno, but what about external version? is your provider trained in those methods or comfortable trying it? i know it doesn't always "take", but it might be less of a pain in the ass (in a way) than going all the way to the Farm.
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#9 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:53 PM
 
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I'd love to, but I haven't been able to find any financial information on the costs of that. We don't really have a lot of disposable income, so that makes this even harder.
If you call them (their number is on their website) they can give you more up-to-date info, but I can tell you that they charge $3000 and have very good luck getting it all covered by insurance. They bill as a "maternity clinic." They like you to have visited once before you come down, but are flexible on that.

The main expense would probably be room/board. That you'd have to ask them about.

I researched this, because I am so irritated with my birth situation...
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#10 of 110 Old 03-05-2007, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If you call them (their number is on their website) they can give you more up-to-date info, but I can tell you that they charge $3000 and have very good luck getting it all covered by insurance. They bill as a "maternity clinic." They like you to have visited once before you come down, but are flexible on that.

The main expense would probably be room/board. That you'd have to ask them about.

I researched this, because I am so irritated with my birth situation...
Any idea if they work with out of state medicaid? I'm desperate. :

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#11 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:04 AM
 
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Can you not just labor on your own and walk in to the hospital complete? If you are of "sound mind" and are oriented they cannot force a c-section-even if they think the baby's life is at risk. You would have to sign a billion procedure refusal forms, but they cannot force you to have surgery.

There is still time to flip. Have you tried any of the spinning babies techniques?
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#12 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:09 AM
 
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You have a LOT of time still! Try not to stress out, really. Odds are in your favor that the baby will turn. To answer your question I would not have a section or a UC. I would find the nearest experienced provider, even across state lines or I'd go to the Farm.

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#13 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:10 AM
 
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Can you not just labor on your own and walk in to the hospital complete? If you are of "sound mind" and are oriented they cannot force a c-section-even if they think the baby's life is at risk. You would have to sign a billion procedure refusal forms, but they cannot force you to have surgery.
We're discussing this on another thread. It's happened, apparently.:
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#14 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Can you not just labor on your own and walk in to the hospital complete? If you are of "sound mind" and are oriented they cannot force a c-section-even if they think the baby's life is at risk. You would have to sign a billion procedure refusal forms, but they cannot force you to have surgery.

There is still time to flip. Have you tried any of the spinning babies techniques?
Yes, I'm trying all the spinning babies stuff. I've also had a version- baby flipped right back. It's stubborn.
The official policy here is that even if a woman arrives complete they will push a section- I've heard a nurse boast that w/in 7 minutes of a mother arriving they sectioned her.

If I did just refuse, would a doctor HAVE to attend me? Does it clear them of legal liability if they mishandle things?
I don't really want to go to a hospital, but a breech UC isn't really at my comfort level either.

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#15 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:30 AM
 
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Yes, I'm trying all the spinning babies stuff. I've also had a version- baby flipped right back. It's stubborn.
The official policy here is that even if a woman arrives complete they will push a section- I've heard a nurse boast that w/in 7 minutes of a mother arriving they sectioned her.

If I did just refuse, would a doctor HAVE to attend me? Does it clear them of legal liability if they mishandle things?
I don't really want to go to a hospital, but a breech UC isn't really at my comfort level either.
Here's what I know: Under EMTALA they have to treat you; they can't throw you out of the hospital. HOWEVER, they can make life very difficult for you if you won't section... and they might do it anyway.

I hate some of the language of spinningbabies... it really seems to lay the blame for malpresentation on the mother, which I just don't think is the case, usually. Still, if works for you, great!

Best of luck. Let us know how things turn out.
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#16 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:37 AM
 
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You're way too early for an external version IMO, and they can apparently be dangerous and painful later in pregnancy. Do some research on that - I have heard horror stories of broken bones, bruises, etc. to baby.

"Statistically", baby's are considered breech if they are not head down by about 36 weeks or so, you have lots of time. Baby's bop all over the place before then.

If, by 35 weeks or so he is still breech, there are lots of suggestions for turning your baby naturally; talk to your baby, tell him/her that it's ok to turn and settle in to a natural birthing position; try sitting in a warm bath covering the lower belly with ice pack on your upper belly (baby apparently turns away from the cold for the warm); the most common midwife suggestion - put earphones with nice music on your lower belly - baby apparently moves it's head towards the sound...there are lots of things to try. I personally had GREAT success with a local Chiropractor who does the Webster technique, (their office has a 92% success rate of turning breech babies right up until labour).

But worring about this now is kind of a waste of stress IMO, as your baby will probably turn back and forth - possibly many times - between now and 36, 37 weeks so no real point in trying to "get" him/her turned before then.

My guy was breech up until a few days ago (I'm 37 1/2 weeks). My midwife told me that after 36 weeks or so, it's "rare" for a baby to turn, but I was optimistic. I had one chiro treatment 3 days ago, (Webster technique) my pelvis realigned (apparently - whatever happened, it felt great - like a hugh relief of pressure), and within hours babe was not only head down but he dropped down low in to my pelvis in to the "optimal" birthing position, (acc to my midwife).

I told 3 people that my guy was breech last week. The first, my boss, said "Yeah, my first was breech and my doctor told me he wouldn't turn after 35 weeks, but 2 days before my due date I was sitting on the couch and felt him turn. I was almost 40 weeks and had a normal delivery".

The second, my sister, said, "Yeah, so was DS2, but he turned when I was in labour".

The third, a coworker, said, "Yeah, my eldest was too but she turned at 39 weeks...".

And as I said, my guy just turned at 37 1/2 weeks.

So it can't be that rare!

I know 2 other mamas who had breech babies who listened to their docs and went in for a c-section 2 weeks before their due date (at 38 weeks) b/c their doc said babe won't turn now. Don't believe it!!!

... And I can't say HOW impressed I was with the chiro treatment - I highly recommend it. HTH!!

Kathy.
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#17 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:44 AM
 
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They have to treat you. Making you sign refusal forms keeps you from being allowed to sue them if something goes wrong in the "dreaded" breech birth. Don't get me wrong, they will use every scare tactic under the sun and ask you questions like date, location, time to verify your mental status. If you are strong, you can sign away and they would be forced to deliver you vaginally. Of course, things may just happen too fast for all this to transpire.

I understand being uncomfortable with UC and money being an issue with a midwife. I am hoping that baby will turn.
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#18 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:46 AM
 
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If you call them (their number is on their website) they can give you more up-to-date info, but I can tell you that they charge $3000 and have very good luck getting it all covered by insurance. They bill as a "maternity clinic." They like you to have visited once before you come down, but are flexible on that.

The main expense would probably be room/board. That you'd have to ask them about.

I researched this, because I am so irritated with my birth situation...

OMG! Midwives in this area run closer to $4000 and insurance is unlikely to cover but $500 or so of it. So the thought of full coverage, the lowest csec rates and stories of wonderful breech births...wow! If my babe stays breech I am seriously considering finding a way to get out there...and I am in California. The thought of another csection literally makes me want to throw up.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#19 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:47 AM
 
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But worring about this now is kind of a waste of stress IMO, as your baby will probably turn back and forth - possibly many times - between now and 36, 37 weeks so no real point in trying to "get" him/her turned before then.
I have to respectfully disagree.

I don't think it can hurt to make a Plan B (Plan Breech?). The OP is trying to make sure she has her bases covered--I think she'll have less stress is the long run if she knows she has a plan in place, whatever happens.

Sorry, but this is kind of a sore subject, as the midwives at the birth center I go to keep telling me it's "too early" to worry about this or that thing... I don't want to be blindsided at 38 weeks with some unforseen issue, KWIM?
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#20 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, monkeybum- that really made me feel better!

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#21 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have to respectfully disagree.

I don't think it can hurt to make a Plan B (Plan Breech?). The OP is trying to make sure she has her bases covered--I think she'll have less stress is the long run if she knows she has a plan in place, whatever happens.

Sorry, but this is kind of a sore subject, as the midwives at the birth center I go to keep telling me it's "too early" to worry about this or that thing... I don't want to be blindsided at 38 weeks with some unforseen issue, KWIM?
That is exactly what I'm trying to do- I don't want to wake up one day in labor and not have a plan. I want to have all of my options- good and bad.

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#22 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:51 AM
 
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Like people have said, babies can turn right up until the point they're born. So you have plenty of time.

But I always have to recommend the Farm (as I'm sure people who hang out here are getting to know ). I loved my ds's breech birth there, even with all the stress of switching providers half a week before the baby was born. But it was a beautiful place, Ina May was very hands-off, and I couldn't have asked for a better birth. I would never go into a hospital if I wanted a vaginal breech - that kind of stress would not be fun at all during labor.

We did try everything to turn him, even an external version. If you end up trying one of those, I recommend not waiting too long after 36 weeks. DS was just too big by the time we tried, I think he'd dropped into my pelvis too, and he wouldn't budge. It was not a fun way to spend my evening - it hurt quite a bit, though luckily the baby was fine.

As to the cost, $3000 is for regular births, unfortunately. We paid $4000 out of pocket for a breech. They do take out-of-state insurance, but we didn't get very much back from ours. Maybe your insurance would be better about it. I bet you could talk to the midwives, though, if it comes down to it, and work something out. Also, the room and board isn't bad at all, so that helps. It's $200 per week, if I recall correctly, to stay in the birth houses. Better than a hotel. (As for board, though, they don't provide food, I don't think, but there is a little shop somewhere, and you can always bring your own groceries, since you'll have a kitchen in your birth house.)

Your baby will probably turn, but if s/he doesn't, the Farm is sooo worth it. Good luck!

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#23 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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$4000? Oh, wow. There's no way that we could swing that. :
I wish this wasn't even the issue.

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#24 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 01:08 AM
 
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I am 40 weeks today... and my baby is - at the moment laying transverse. {head at 9 feet at 3} Earlier today he was up and down- kicking my cervix. thanks wee one

I have "big" babies, and am not worried about it, I know that woman left alone get it done. I wouldn't be here and nor would you if that weren't true.

#1 was breech till 40 weeks, just wasn't interested in being upside down still hates it

#2 - was head down alll the time - still loves to be hung upside-down.

#3 - didn't know - fully trusted it - she came out just fine.

#4 - waiting to see - have thought a lot about breech birth, what it means how it works, etc. Discussed it with a midwife. Still planning to go ahead with a UC - definitely will be in the water if its breech {planning water birth anyway}.

Shoudl you do a UC? Well- that's really up to you and your gut feelings and instincts. You said earlier that you are not really that comfortable with that so- seek something else.

My personal idea: decide what you want- then focus on getting it- and know that it will come to you.

If you want a HB midwife- then look hard- search the net- call everyone of them in your area and tell them the stats- that you are x weeks along- and you are already being pressured about a c-section if your baby doesn't turn. See what they have to say. You might be surprised to find exactly what you are looking for.

And in reply to prev. post- sure- knowing what you plan to do in a situation is always good. Always. Not to an obsessive point, but be prepared with plans/choices/decisions.

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#25 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 10:55 AM
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i already want to UC, but quite honestly, i would UC. i consider c-sections more dangerous than vaginal breech. thus, i would do whatever i could to avoid a c-section, particularly for the reason of breech.

the 'vbac' issue is a bit more challenging. it depends on the previous reason for the section, how you healed, how the scar is responding to the pregnancy and birth process, and what your specific needs are and may be in relation to that and how or whether breech would negatively affect the uterus during labor and vaginal birth.

Assuming that all of these things are considered and accounted for, and the vaginal breech is still safer than a section, then i would do anything in my power to avoid a section--which would then 'require' a UC in your case (considering there are no care providers in your area willing to work with you).

good luck to you either way--and i'm terribly, terribly sorry that there arent' care providers willing to assist you appropriately.
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on the financial issue of The Farm

first, i would call them and ask them what the different financial arrangements are--if there is a payment plan option or what might be available to you.

second, consider asking family and friends for help with this process. a friend of mine decided that she wanted to go to the farm to have her baby, so her baby shower had a 'money tree' for this purpose. they didn't have the money (or insurance) to go there, but the shower provided more money than she and her partner needed to travel from PA to TN and back, plus the cost of the farm, and a little extra for their car seat and some other things. AND they got baby gifts.

People want to help, don't be afraid to ask.
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#27 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 11:08 AM
 
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is just NOT a good option. Why? Because many doctors do NOT know how to assist in the case of a breech birth, even a simple one. And that's the truth. Breech birth delivered vaginally is often not even taught. Scary, huh?
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#28 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 12:56 PM
 
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I wouldn't worry at all. Just start getting regular webster adjustments and you should be fine. You say the version worked but your baby flipped back? That should be a sure fire sign that Webster will work for you. My last baby was confirmed breech at 38 weeks and he flipped head down immediately after my first webster adjustment. Then he returned breech so I went back to the chiro and he returned head down and remained with regular webster adjustments twice a week. He was 9.5 lbs so not a small guy and he had no problems filpping twice with webster that late in my pregnancy (38th and 39th weeks). Plus there are no risks involved with webster and it is cheap. You can find a chiro certified in Webster in your area at www.icpa4kids.com . I'd start asap! Super high success rates, there is no reason to think you can't have a vertex baby .
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#29 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 02:40 PM
 
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HAnds down, UC. If I strongly suspected breech, I would be reading up on how to handle it, knowing that there is a decent chance of baby turning during labor. If baby hasn't turned in spite of me never sitting reclined, etc.... there is likely a reason for it. Either way, I'm not scared to birth a breech.

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#30 of 110 Old 03-06-2007, 02:49 PM
 
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My midwife told me that after 36 weeks or so, it's "rare" for a baby to turn, but I was optimistic.

Wow, I didn't realize how rare it was for them to turn that late.

OP, my Rivka was breech at 38 weeks, she turned at some point before my 39 week appointment. I was starting to stress too, but I didn't do any chiro or anything (no $$ and two 16 month olds in tow )

There is still time, try not to over stress.


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