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#31 of 53 Old 04-09-2007, 03:42 PM
 
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I sincerely hope my husband will physically remove people if I ever need to transfer to the hospital and someone tries to force something on my that I decline. I have repeated this to him at great length explaining different situations.

At my first birth my legs were forcefully held which I did not want and loudly said so. No one cared, it's just like rape.
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#32 of 53 Old 04-09-2007, 11:40 PM
 
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Just because it hasn't happened in your career doesn't mean it's impossible. And as for the monitoring, if god forbid I end up transferring, I WILL take the monitor off this time. But I didn't the first time, even though I didn't want it. So it's not as simple as that. Some women are afraid of standing up for what is right. it took me an unnecessary csection to figure out that is not in my best interest to be the "polite little patient".
Let me rephrase then: in NZ it doesnt happen because that is assault and drs and midwives can be sued for assault. We always seek consent and we dont physically manhandle anyone. Ever.
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#33 of 53 Old 04-10-2007, 02:40 AM
 
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I had that happen too, and I had declined it both orally and in writing. Found out about it when I reviewed my hospy records.


What did you do when you found out?
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#34 of 53 Old 04-10-2007, 11:01 AM
 
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What did you do when you found out?
Cried. Seriously! I read and reread the hospital records and the midwives' records and just got mad and cried and finally made my peace with it. It was close to 2 yrs after the fact, and just one of a few things that were not quite right in the records, so I just didn't feel like starting up a back-and-forth with the mws group. My dh's favorite was in the office records one of the mws had stated that he seemed "hostile" at the 36 wk appt. Um, no, he asked you to please slow down and repeat a few things that you rushed through explaining. (She was POd because I couldn't leave work early to come to that appt 2 hrs early anyway, so she was rushing through explaining what happens when at the hospy.) And aren't medical records supposed to only record objective facts, not subjective opinions?

Besides the pitocin thing, one of my favorites is where they first checked "SROM", then crossed it out and checked "AROM", as in, "oh yeah, we DID break your water!" She sprang that on me at 7-8cm. I found out later from a doula that some of the mws in that practice (CNMs) insist on AROM before you get in the birth tub and others don't.

The moral of my particular story for me was... NCB in a major urban teaching hospy is very, very hard to achieve unless you A.) go along with the regular procedures [which I don't ] or B.) are smart enough as a FTM to hire a real she-bear of a doula who will constantly remind you of your goals and run some serious interference.

Oh, and most importantly (for me) plan a UC next time around!

eta: Oh yeah, and the pitocin was put in the IV after my ds was born to speed up the placenta. No, I wasn't bleeding heavily and yes, we were nursing. In the records it says "per protocol". Grrrrr...

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#35 of 53 Old 04-10-2007, 01:10 PM
 
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I wasn't held down but I was paralyzed from the chest down. IMO it's the same thing. I'm not sure what else I could have done to fight them off.

Homeschooling mom of two plus baby R born December 16 love.gif
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#36 of 53 Old 04-11-2007, 02:53 AM
 
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The closest I've come ot being treated against my will is when I wanted an empty, dangling IV tube taken out and for 20 hours I asked anybody and everybody to take it off and they kept passing the buck.

So, hardly traumatic, I just wish I'd not been scared to pull it out myself. It was so annoying, uncomfortable, and in the way of sleeping, nursing, getting dressed, etc. and I really wanted it off and nobody would do it. OK, I'm still angry. ugh.

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#37 of 53 Old 04-11-2007, 08:34 AM
 
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It's assault to force treatment on people in the US too, but nobody does anything about it, and they just keep getting away with it.

Laura, CBE and mom to Maddiewaterbirth.jpg ( 06/03/04) & Graceuc.jpg (  09/10/06)
 
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#38 of 53 Old 04-11-2007, 08:13 PM
 
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Originally Posted by skyblufig View Post
Cried. Seriously! I read and reread the hospital records and the midwives' records and just got mad and cried and finally made my peace with it. It was close to 2 yrs after the fact, and just one of a few things that were not quite right in the records, so I just didn't feel like starting up a back-and-forth with the mws group. My dh's favorite was in the office records one of the mws had stated that he seemed "hostile" at the 36 wk appt. Um, no, he asked you to please slow down and repeat a few things that you rushed through explaining. (She was POd because I couldn't leave work early to come to that appt 2 hrs early anyway, so she was rushing through explaining what happens when at the hospy.) And aren't medical records supposed to only record objective facts, not subjective opinions?
Yep I cried the whole entire afternoon when I got my records. Not sure if there is anything I or you could do, except continue to share our stories with other moms to warn them. Is a police station really going to care that a doctor did things against my will 3 years ago? I doubt it. After all, as I've heard a thousand times (and I might punch the next person who says it) "you have a healthy baby, that's all that matters":

The comment about your dh made me laugh. My favorite comment in my records is "Twin sister had csection and is imposing her views on the patient" Um, yeah. She was trying to SAVE me from also going through an unneccessary csection but unfortunately couldn't :

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#39 of 53 Old 04-11-2007, 09:00 PM
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When I went into labor with my twins, the on-call doctor kept forcefully checking my cervix after I told him not to. After a few times, I got fed up and kicked the shit out of him.
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#40 of 53 Old 04-11-2007, 10:49 PM
 
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I was literally fisted via VE when I had dd. They made everyone leave the room, DH and my mom, and literally proceeded to perform the most painful VE I have ever experienced. Now, I have survived breaking my jaw twice and dislocating it ones, teeth being ripped out full force in sports, fracturing every rib in my body, fracturing my spine, the list goes on.. and never once cried.

I sobbed and cried and screamed my way through this VE. I told her to please be more gentle, she was ripping my insides, and it just continued. My mom and DH heard me SCREAMING in pain from outside and were forcefully restrained by staff. I can only imagine what damage the two of them would have caused were they not held back (4 male nurses per person!).


It was awful. My whole body clenches up while thinking about it, to this day.
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#41 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 01:52 AM
 
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I guess I was never physically forced, but gosh, I was just never TOLD what was going on, much less asked. With my first baby, the doc told me he was breaking my water AS HE DID IT, no, sorry, correction, he wasnt informing me of anything, I heard him explaining it to his intern (whom I also wasnt given a choice about) along with some comment about he HOPED this worked (said with a chuckle). I was hooked up to all kinds of monitors that I was never told I had a choice about (that was the reason for the AROM, so they could hook a monitor into his scalp, hes 15 now and still has the scar on his head). I also pushed the nurses hands away several times when she was "massaging the uterus" after the birth. And I said "no" and "stop" many, many times. I finally got a foot loose out of the stirrups and kicked her! Never asked or told about the episiotomy.

I know I had pitocin with number two, but not until I was pg. with number three and discussing options with my OB, who told me I had no choice about having pitocin, everyone does! (So I switched late in pg. with number three to a mw) So who knows what else was done to me that I dont know about? I had a epidural with number two and I did consent to that, but had no idea that meant the cath and all the rest went with it. No told me that, much less any risks of the epi (found those out later). So much for informed consent. Had asked before hand for no episiotomy and was told Id have it "only if necessary" again, never asked or told, it was just done.

I had number three at a birthing center to avoid all the crap, of course, I was pretty much made to lay on my side by the mw. I kept saying no to her request but by the end I was exhausted and in pain and I gave up, even though my body was telling me to stay on all fours. She insisted I HAD to be on my side or she wouldnt be able to "help" me. Well, he almost wouldnt come out and had to be really, really pulled (big baby) but I cant help thinking he would have slid out much easier on all fours. And whats the worst that would have happened? He would have landed on the nice soft mattress? At least they didnt cut me that time, I tore but that was better, hurt less and healed faster.

ANd none of that touches on the fact that both my hospital babies were given vitamin K shots, PKU sticks, Hep B vaccines etc. etc. and I dont remember to being told about it, asked for consent or signing any consent forms for any of it.

We wont even get into my first child being circed because of the misinformation I was given.

I am SO paranoid with this baby, but also know that I will be a lot more assertive about what I want or dont want done. And I have a bright pink sign for the babys bassinet with a list of DONTS. I have an ob who seems to very hands off and ok with letting things go natural when possible. Shes ok with no pitocin unless there is quite a bit of bleeding, has only done eight episiotomys in her career etc. So heres hoping.

~Me, mama to soapbox boy (1991), photo girl (1997), gadget girl (2003), jungle boy (2005), fan boy (2003) and twirly girl (2011). Twenty years of tree hugging, breastfeeding, cosleeping, unschooling, craziness
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#42 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 02:26 AM
 
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I just wanted to say...I'm so sorry to hear about all of your experiences. It makes me very sad. My heart goes out to all of you.
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#43 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 02:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree gardenwithin... I know this is only a few stories, but it breaks my heart tha so many were mistreated at a time when you all should have been honored. It is shocking to me...I mean I just don't get it. I am forever having to get patients to sign this or that to do anything pretty much. to all you mamas.

H

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#44 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 02:36 AM
 
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I haven't read all the responses so forgive me if this entire thread has side-tracked itself or something lol

I certainly didn't have anyone holding me down but I was "held down" by the monitors and such. Everytime I moved they would lose ds's heart beat so they just told me to stop moving. I was uninformed, I didn't know I could tell them to go screw themselves, so I laid there on my back without moving for over 12 hours, 4 of those hours in actual labor with a nurse who didn't believe me and an epidural that didn't work at all (that I didn't get until 9 cm because they didn't believe me when I said how bad the contractions were, after all it wasn't showing up on their stupid monitors : ).

Rachel, mom to Jake (5/04) and Alexia (7/07) a surprise UC thanks to hypnobabies!
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#45 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 12:29 PM
 
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When I was in nursing school I did an L&D rotation. There was one birth I attended that will haunt me forever. The mom had a natural drug free birth. She was begging the OB not to give her an episiotomy. I watched him take a 10 ml syringe with a huge gauge needle and jam it into her perineum very forcefully. It was a shot of lidocaine. She began screaming. Then he cut her anyway.
Then when she was pushing she wanted up on all fours. The OB and the nurses in the room began yelling at her and they forcefully pushed her down onto the bed and then practically laid on top of her to keep her on her back.

It was horrible.
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#46 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 01:08 PM
 
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When I was in nursing school I did an L&D rotation. There was one birth I attended that will haunt me forever. The mom had a natural drug free birth. She was begging the OB not to give her an episiotomy. I watched him take a 10 ml syringe with a huge gauge needle and jam it into her perineum very forcefully. It was a shot of lidocaine. She began screaming. Then he cut her anyway.
Then when she was pushing she wanted up on all fours. The OB and the nurses in the room began yelling at her and they forcefully pushed her down onto the bed and then practically laid on top of her to keep her on her back.

It was horrible.
This is the type of thing that gives me actual nightmares.

Jfly-by-nursing1.gif, partner-in-crime to Dfamilybed2.gif, mama to run.gif4, including our brand new rainbow1284.gifbaby.gifmissing my 7-wk-er

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#47 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 01:39 PM
 
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thankfully my hospital birth went fabulously, I wasn't forced to do anything and all my preferences were met without any problem in the least. However, I do know that it is pretty standard to give pitocin in the iv after delivery without consent- I just never had an iv in the first place so that makes it a little harder to give. I can most definitely so how easy medical professionals could bully, coerce and force a laboring mom, it is such a vulnerable time.

Happily Married to my : 11 yrs- Mama to wild-eyed monkey boy 7-04, fiery little girl 4-07, and the happy smiley baby that sleeps 11-09!
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#48 of 53 Old 04-12-2007, 08:14 PM
 
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thankfully my hospital birth went fabulously, I wasn't forced to do anything and all my preferences were met without any problem in the least. However, I do know that it is pretty standard to give pitocin in the iv after delivery without consent- I just never had an iv in the first place so that makes it a little harder to give. I can most definitely so how easy medical professionals could bully, coerce and force a laboring mom, it is such a vulnerable time.
Which is why in addition to saying they did NOT have my consent orally, we also put it in writing. And I got it anyway. Without being told. For no reason.

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#49 of 53 Old 04-13-2007, 10:06 AM
 
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It's assault to force treatment on people in the US too, but nobody does anything about it, and they just keep getting away with it.
This is so sad. The stories I have read here are heartbreaking. Hugs to you all.
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#50 of 53 Old 04-13-2007, 11:35 AM
 
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It's assault to force treatment on people in the US too, but nobody does anything about it,
Consider how sue-happy American culture is in general, WHY IS THIS?
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#51 of 53 Old 04-13-2007, 11:44 AM
 
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As a midwife working in a large maternity hospital I've assisted at about 1000 births now. Never seen someone held down and had an IV, or catheter or monitor forced on them. I would imagine it would be impossible.
I can testify in the case of the catheter that it isn't impossible. They had to hold me down to insert the catheter for my c-section. It wasn't against my will (I agreed to the section), but the anesthesia hadn't kicked in yet and it was the most painful thing I've ever experienced. I was kicking and struggling out of pure instinct, the pain was so bad. But two nurses held my legs and got it in.
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#52 of 53 Old 04-13-2007, 12:51 PM
 
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Mine wasn't that bad - but when I transferred to the hospital for pitocin the pushing phase was very fast. I was pushing and the nurse said no stop, I need to check you, and I told her "no, it's time." She still tried to go up there - I guess I let her try. I told her "get out" and she said, "no, just let me" and I snapped my legs together and continued pushing. DH said she looked a little mifted, but they didn't have time to argue with me, my baby was coming out. He crowned as the doctor took his seat.

I am somewhat surprised that they find it so hard to follow the woman's lead.
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#53 of 53 Old 04-14-2007, 09:40 PM
 
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The first year I was a student I was at a birth for a woman who had planned a homebirth that transferred to the hospital because the mom insisted as soon as we arrived that that's where she wanted to be. She was very frightened by the intensity of her labor. During second stage, fetal heart tones dropped very low (30's if I remember correctly) and did not come back up. I think at one point they where actually lost and the doctor on call grabbed the scissors and cut an epis while the woman screamed "please don't cut me" over and over. He then applied the vacuum and the baby was born. It needed resuscitation, but was ended up alright. It was so incredibly horrible and I was sick over witnessing this for quite awhile, not only because I felt that it was so violent, but because I also do not think this woman's baby would be alive if this doctor had not performed this intervention. I know that this sounds like classic medical bs, but I have been to many births, and I have never seen anyone so out of touch with their labor and baby. She literally had her eyes clamped shut and fought every contraction, and when the heart tones bottomed out, she just kept saying she couldn't do it and writhing around on the bed. I still wonder if labor brought up some abuse history that she did not remember or want to share with us before the birth. And then to have such a horribly violent birth experience. :
Anyone else been in a situation like this, and if so, how did you handle it differently. BTW, she was informed what was going on and why the entire time.

Wife to Joe and Mama to Rosie, 6/28/06, Jack, 10/25/08 and JoJo 3/18/10.
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