Warning - episiotomy w/o consent! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 08:35 AM
 
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Geez! My crotch + sharp things = no dice! :

~Marie : Mom to DS(11), DS(10), DD(8), DD(4), DD(2), & Happily Married to DH 12 yrs.!
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#32 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 02:43 PM
 
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Wow... I must have gotten lucky. I just cannot believe the power that medical professionals have to hurt you without consequence.

I made a big ol' stink over the episiotomy thing at my prenatal visits, and my CNM respected my wishes. Right after the birth she said that I was lucky that I had a midwife because I would have definitely gotten one if an OB had been attending.

I had a second degree tear but it healed completely within ten days of the birth and caused hardly any pain. I doubt an episiotomy would have been as easy to deal with as the tear.:

I wrote her a thank you note with the birth announcement I sent out yesterday... thanking her for attending the birth AND saving my perineum.

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#33 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jennica View Post
A doula can't DO anything to stop an episiotomy. I had one too, and she couldn't stop it anymore than I could. I think the only thing that can stop it is if your partner physically stops the care provider from doing it, and not all partners are prepared to do that.

I hope your wishes are respected. Good luck.
Oh, I know she can't, but what she CAN do is be on alert and able to notice things that are going on that I might not be aware of myself while I'm distracted with pain and visualizations and such. She can keep an eye on things.

Besides, my OB is not very pushy about episiotomies. At least NOT YET! I specifically switched OBs to get this one, and I trust him. Excellent bedside manner, very informative. Met with me for an hour before I even became a patient, just to talk about my needs/wants. Good man.
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#34 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 05:32 PM
 
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When my mother gave birth in 1980 and 1984, she told the OB in advance she didn't want one. They told her it was required. She said she would find another OB. They told her good luck, because she wouldn't find one that didn't require one. They were right. She had to submit to it.

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#35 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 07:19 PM
 
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She should know how you feel. Tell her. Don't spare her with details about your nightmares. An epi without consent is assault.
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#36 of 53 Old 04-26-2007, 08:19 PM
 
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Yep I was this [_] close to an episiotomy and thank god my nurse leaned over and reminded my doctor that I didn't want one. That woman did so much for me she was such an awesome nurse.
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#37 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 11:47 AM
 
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That is horrible. I would definitely complain or talk to that OB about what happened. Can you believe I almost got an epi during DS's homebirth (midwife can do one during a homebirth here in Europe)? I was pushing on my back but it didn't feel right. I felt like I had more strength but couldn't quite get to it because of my position, YKWIM? So DS didn't come further down. Between two contractions I heard the midwife discuss with her trainee (don't know what else to call her, but she was doing the birth together with the MW as part of her education) about getting ready for an episiotomy. That word came through veeeery clear in my fogged mind at that moment. I had one at DD's birth (hospital, she was breech and they told me I had to have one to get her out quickly *sigh*) and hated it so deeply, that I swore never to have one again. So the moment I heard that word, I thought to myself: no way, this baby's coming out as I want it, and right now! So I ignored what they said and turned to my side and out he came in one push. No tear, nothing!! All this talk about an epi because they had no patience to wait it out and because I wasn't able to express more clearly that I wanted to push on my side. Very valuable lesson. BTW, I did mention this to them when they came to check up on me a few days later. The midwife told me they considered doing an epi based on the hearttones of the baby and how the pushing was going. Let's just say they both still had a lot to learn. :

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#38 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 12:45 PM
 
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I just told my HCP that under no circumstance was I to have an episiotomy. Lucky for me he doesn't believe in them. Even luckier for my ds2 is that he doesn't believe in circ's either so no constant harrassment on that front.
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#39 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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I had an epi without consent also. I didn't even realize what she was doing until I felt the cutting. I never should have signed the general consent form at the hospital. It lead to a lot of procedures done without asking me first.
After I received the bill for the "surgery" I realized why sOB's do them. $3000 for a quick cut and 20 minutes of stitching.

Jessika, wife to Turbo, mommy to Codi (12/04), Kayce (8/08), Colten (10/10), and a new little stork-suprise.gif coming 12/13 .

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#40 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 03:21 PM
 
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This happened to me with my first birth, 5# 13 ounce baby and HUGE episiotomy. I saw, heard and felt him cutting. Horrid! I've had tears since but never been cut again.

In those days they strapped your legs into stirups and there was no possibility of fighting back.
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#41 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 03:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Codi's Mama View Post
I had an epi without consent also. I didn't even realize what she was doing until I felt the cutting. I never should have signed the general consent form at the hospital. It lead to a lot of procedures done without asking me first.
After I received the bill for the "surgery" I realized why sOB's do them. $3000 for a quick cut and 20 minutes of stitching.


OMG! I had one but had no bill like that! (mine was consented because the baby's head was stuck half way out for 30 minutes and her hr was dropping. The midwife gave me an opportunity to try harder, which I did and it didn't do anything)

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#42 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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What makes you think that any woman in her right mind would consent to a ritual genital mutilation as a routine episiotomy? Doctors do it because they think they know better than G-d or think they are G-d.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#43 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtlewomyn View Post
I mean really, if someone tried to come up to you on the street with a scissors and tried to cut you that would be attempted assault, what makes it ok when they have that MD after their name?
A doctor is different.

He is acting within the standard of care, and if you think you do not know what that is, try suing him. The entire Medical Society in your state will line up to testify that he was acting within the standard of care, that is, if the district attorney did not laugh you out of his office in the first place.

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#44 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 04:01 PM
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I was given an episiotomy without my consent. Actually I was screaming "Noooooooo!" and so was my DH. My DH was actually crying while he was saying no.
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#45 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 08:02 PM
 
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: :

Okay, I think that about covers it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gcgirl View Post
Oh, I know she can't, but what she CAN do is be on alert and able to notice things that are going on that I might not be aware of myself while I'm distracted with pain and visualizations and such. She can keep an eye on things.
At my recent doula training with P. Simkin, she told us a story where she had a client who had explicitly stated to her OB that she did not want to be cut. Penny saw the doctor reaching for the scissors and quietly told the client, "He's picking up the scissors", and the OB quickly put them down and said "No I'm not". This woman avoided the episiotomy.

Reading this thread has put me on a soapbox for the rest of the night. DH and I are going on a date - I am sure he's going to be thrilled with my ranting dinner conversation...
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#46 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow! How utterly horrifying that so many of us have had this experience. I am so sad for those of you that weren't able to avoid it. I can't get over how lucky it was that I had my eyes open and just happened to focus on the OB at that moment. For much of the pushing phase, my eyes were either closed or I was looking into DH's eyes.

What's sticking with me now is the thought of the excruciating pain I would have felt had she cut me. I had no pain meds whatsoever and she hadn't done a local on me before picking up the scissors.

Honestly, I can't believe it's legal for them to cut you without consent. It shouldn't be. It's been very interesting to read everyone's comments. Even though this was my 2nd hospital birth, I had no idea this sort of thing could happen. What an eye opener. And not in a good way!
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#47 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 11:10 PM
 
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We were VERY clear with the doc and the nursing staff for my last birth and they flat out LIED through their teeth. We feel they stole the baby from us and left him laying under a warmer in the nursery while my husband was allowed only to hold his hand. The baby screamed and screamed and there was NO medical reason for him to be taken from us. We told them we wanted him to stay and they bold faced told us that was okay on several ocassions. When they took him, they said they were going to weigh him and bring him back. Again, a lie.

Also, I told the doc NO episiotomy and he was SUCH a jerk. You could tell he was so mad. I believe he maliciously stretched me so hard and fast that he gave me tears all over and I was in excruciating pain for weeks.

Even a CNM I trusted gave me an episiotomy without asking during my delivery of my second. I only pushed SEVEN times. I think I could have given birth without one just fine.

I am having a homebirth this time. For obvius reasons!

Almost a b-ball team: : Taylor -14, Alex -11, Jack -8, Lachlan born at home 11/15/07
"Well behaved women rarely make history"
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#48 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 11:26 PM
 
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WOW. I really wonder now if I had one and just didn't know it. I transferred to the hospital from a birth center (had a ridiculous experience with birth center, long story) and ended up on my back with epidural, baby crowning over and over again but not popping out, and OB finally using forceps b/c, she said, he was stuck under my pubic bone. Is episiotomy required with forceps? She just 'shoehorned' him out, but I was torn almost to the anus. My memory is '60 stitches.' I couldn't sit down for almost a month. No one mentioned episiotomy, but?

Wow, I never even thought about this before.

I cannot believe this happens. For god's sake, wasn't there this major research study done several YEARS ago that showed episiotomies only make tears worse and don't help births?? AAARRGGH! It was in the New York Times Science Times section.
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#49 of 53 Old 04-27-2007, 11:45 PM
 
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Episiotomy case settled in court: http://tinyurl.com/2l5k5n

Not quite the same as this, but interesting..

Almost a b-ball team: : Taylor -14, Alex -11, Jack -8, Lachlan born at home 11/15/07
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#50 of 53 Old 04-28-2007, 01:39 AM
 
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Boy am I ever glad to have a laid back Doc with DS1. He was stretching me as I was crowning and he says" your getting a little tight I am just going to make a little cut." I yelled "NO, I'd rather tear." He put down the scissors and I barely tore at all. I didn't even need a single stitch. If he had cut I would have needed at least a few. I am glad for myself that he wasn't egotistical enough to go against my wishes. He made no fuss about it and when he was checking me for tears after the birth he just says " Hun. No need for stitches." I think he was glad I made his job easier.

Wife to DH, Mom to my Intact Boys DS1: Born 02 Pain Med Free Hospital Birth, BF'ed for 9 Months, Partially Vax'd DS2: Born 06 via UC, BF'ed 3 years 10 months, and UnVax'd
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#51 of 53 Old 04-28-2007, 03:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by GinaRae View Post
Episiotomy case settled in court: http://tinyurl.com/2l5k5n

Not quite the same as this, but interesting..
Good for her! Too bad the case got settled though. We need more of those cases in court.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#52 of 53 Old 04-28-2007, 11:21 AM
 
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Boy am I ever glad to have a laid back Doc with DS1. He was stretching me as I was crowning and he says" your getting a little tight I am just going to make a little cut." I yelled "NO, I'd rather tear." He put down the scissors and I barely tore at all. I didn't even need a single stitch. If he had cut I would have needed at least a few. I am glad for myself that he wasn't egotistical enough to go against my wishes. He made no fuss about it and when he was checking me for tears after the birth he just says " Hun. No need for stitches." I think he was glad I made his job easier.
It's good that you didn't get the episiotomy, but it still bothers me that he thought "Oh, looks like she MIGHT tear, better cut her!" It's just not a logical train of the thought!

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#53 of 53 Old 04-29-2007, 12:43 AM
 
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This brings back HORRIBLE memories of my ds birth. It makes me sick to my stomach when I remember the OB telling me she had to cut me and screaming "NOOO" at the top of my lungs and her doing it anyway. I still feel so violated and I never confronted either. Just switched to Midwives.

to all mamas who have to deal with this
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