Tips on being supportive of a "medicated" or csection birth:) - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aprilbaby06 View Post
I have had a tramatic birth ...twice. I am very thankful for both of my healthy babies. I am sure that I could have had my perfect birth. But pushing my dead baby into the hands of her father during our home birth just so that I could have "MY PERFECT BIRTH" just really would have been less of a fullfilling experience for me than having to transfer to a hoppital and be druged so that I could allow a dr. to deliver a live healthy child. Maybe I have my priorties scewed, but the well bieng of my children are worth any beating and trauma that I could ever endure. I would endure anything for them and to secure their safety even if it means having to let go of a dream birth not once but twice.

Where are you ladies getting that you can't feel a way, good or bad, about your birth, from the statement that a healthy baby is all that matters? In the end, isn't a healthy baby the main priority? Is avoiding a tramatic birth really so improtant to some of you that your child matters less than what you had to go through? I hope the ones of you who feel this way are seeking a way of dealing with what ever is going on in your minds. For the sake of both your children and yourselves.
Wait. You think your births saved your babies? You mean you went through the trauma for a reason??? Then, you have NO idea what I'm talking about. I've been assaulted and battered, and suffered lasting damage to my pelvis and abdomen for no reason. If I had to choose between a traumatic birth and dead baby, then I'd choose the traumatic birth. That's kind of a "duh". That choice also has nothing to do with my reality or my birth history. And, dd is healthy....but she didn't breathe normally until she was a couple of months old. A nurse told me afterwards that "that happens a lot with c-section babies". Good thing my bodily integrity was sacrificed for my baby, huh?

When people give me the healthy baby crap, they're basically saying, "if the doctor hadn't bullied you onto the OR table, your baby wouldn't be healthy", which is BULL. My surgeries were in the doctor's best interest, but not mine, and not my children's. What is a healthy baby, anyway? Is it "healthy" for anybody when a toddler spends over a month hearing her mother scream every time said toddler gives her a hug?? What about the three babies I miscarried, that may have been related to my first c-section (not consented to, I might add)? Don't those babies count?

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#32 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aprilbaby06 View Post
Where are you ladies getting that you can't feel a way, good or bad, about your birth, from the statement that a healthy baby is all that matters?
Saying the baby is all that matters is saying that mom doesn't matter. It's that simple.

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#33 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:34 PM
 
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Wait. You think your births saved your babies? You mean you went through the trauma for a reason??? Then, you have NO idea what I'm talking about. I've been assaulted and battered, and suffered lasting damage to my pelvis and abdomen for no reason. If I had to choose between a traumatic birth and dead baby, then I'd choose the traumatic birth. That's kind of a "duh". That choice also has nothing to do with my reality or my birth history. And, dd is healthy....but she didn't breathe normally until she was a couple of months old. A nurse told me afterwards that "that happens a lot with c-section babies". Good thing my bodily integrity was sacrificed for my baby, huh?

When people give me the healthy baby crap, they're basically saying, "if the doctor hadn't bullied you onto the OR table, your baby wouldn't be healthy", which is BULL. My surgeries were in the doctor's best interest, but not mine, and not my children's. What is a healthy baby, anyway? Is it "healthy" for anybody when a toddler spends over a month hearing her mother scream every time said toddler gives her a hug?? What about the three babies I miscarried, that may have been related to my first c-section (not consented to, I might add)? Don't those babies count?
There, you took the words out of my mouth again.

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#34 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:36 PM
 
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So sorry to the op about the downward spiral that has occurred with your post and any part in that that I may have had. To help answer what you were asking, it helped me to talk about my birth experiences. Encourage the mother to retell their stories if they seem distressed about their births. I found that letting my feelings out to a few very understanding mamas gave me the most peace with where I had been during birthing my daughters. Crying on there shoulders and listening to them tell about their perspectives of my births really was healing for me. I have also experienced a friend that although her birth went astray from her plans, she was very empowered and please by the experience. They may not need anything but a welcome and congrats to their new babies.
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#35 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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To bring this back to to the original post a bit, it's obvious that women can have more than one feeling about their births. Your sister may feel delighted that her baby is here, AND frustrated about how things went, or any other combination of emotions.

It's incredibly important to empathize with her wherever she happens to be at emotionally, even if that involves multiple emotions. You can congratulate her on a beautiful baby without trying to do it so loudly that you drown out any other feelings she might want to express, if they're there.

Women are not infants. Saying "Look at the healthy baby, yaay, happy baby!" if she's upset about not having birth go the way she wanted to does not work nearly as well as saying "Look at the shiny block, yaaay, nice block!" does when my 7 month old is upset because he's not being allowed to chew on my book.

And that's really all the "at least you have a healthy baby" play is.
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#36 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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Aprilbaby, I think you're really misunderstanding what folks here are saying.

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Originally Posted by aprilbaby06 View Post
Maybe I have my priorties scewed, but the well bieng of my children are worth any beating and trauma that I could ever endure. I would endure anything for them and to secure their safety even if it means having to let go of a dream birth not once but twice.
That's probably true for almost all women. But that doesn't mean that letting go of that dream isn't allowed to hurt, and to hurt badly. If it doesn't for you, that's wonderful, but it does for many women.

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Originally Posted by aprilbaby06 View Post
Where are you ladies getting that you can't feel a way, good or bad, about your birth, from the statement that a healthy baby is all that matters?
Because why would you feel bad if everything that mattered (baby is healthy) is fine? Why would you get upset, deeply deeply upset, about something that's unimportant? Saying that a healthy baby is all that matters means that the birth experience doesn't matter, and that means that having strong feelings attached to it is inappropriate.
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#37 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by aprilbaby06 View Post
In the end, isn't a healthy baby the main priority? Is avoiding a tramatic birth really so improtant to some of you that your child matters less than what you had to go through?
That's the same false pairing of statements that I pointed out earlier OF COURSE a healthy baby is the main priority. OF COURSE avoiding a traumatic birth doesn't matter more than the child. No one here thinks that a lovely birth that ends with a dead baby would be better than surgery. No one is saying that, I don't know anyone who WOULD say that. But saying "a healthy baby is the main priority" and saying "a healthy baby is all that matters" are not the same thing, not by a long shot.

When you say "a healthy baby is all that matters", you are saying that other things, like mom's experience, don't matter. That's hurtful to mothers who are upset.

When we say "mom's experience is important", we're not saying that mom's experience is ALL that matters and that if something happens to baby, ah well, no biggie.:
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#38 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 06:02 PM
 
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: Like I said earlier, I really hope some of you can get the help you so desperately need. May peace come to all of you.
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#39 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 06:04 PM
 
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Mamas, please remember that the OP is asking for help, not for bickering about semantics on this thread. Many of us will have different opinions as to what should be said, and, the wonderful thing about MDC is all the different view points we get. Please remember that the OP can take what works for HER and leave the rest. I understand that we may have strong reactions to what is said, and that's okay...but attacking one another is not--especially when the OP is in an emotionally charged situation for HER family, and isn't looking for infighting here.

Yes, it is very important to listen to her feelings and be compassionate, however she feels about the outcome. I'm assuming that, by now, the child has been born. I hope the mother had the kind of birth she was hoping for!

As a birth worker, I've learned to ask very open ended questions and never "lead the witness" so to say, as you may have seen or noticed or felt something about that birth that she never would have thought about, ever, if you hadn't otherwise mentioned it...and something that you feel is positive may not be that way for the mother/father, or visa versa. So. Listen. Be helpful if you can with caring for the house and the family's needs. Love your new neice/nephew. And IF they ask your opinion, hopefully you will have listened to what they've said in the past and reflect it right back at them. IF they ask for resources, look some up for them. OR, if you've found some ahead of time, let them know that if they ever feel like they want to access them, you've got some resources that they might be interested in, and let them approach you when/if they're ready. They may never ask, and if they don't, don't offer anything but babymoon help (laundry, dishes, food prep, etc.).

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#40 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 06:34 PM
 
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I think the point every body here is trying to reiterate is that you should follow the mother's lead on how she feels about the birth, and validate those feelings, whatever they may be. That's what matters most. That, and celebrating the arrival of her baby.
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#41 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 06:55 PM
 
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I think the point every body here is trying to reiterate is that you should follow the mother's lead on how she feels about the birth, and validate those feelings, whatever they may be.
:
Absolutely. It's easy to jump to conclusions about how she's feeling or how you (me/whomever) would be feeling in her place. But, it's how she is actually feeling that counts when trying to support her.

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#42 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 07:21 PM
 
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frogmamaslings - Your sisters experience so far sounds a lot like my own. I wanted a birth center birth so badly, I went overdue (2.5 weeks!) and ultimately had to be induced with pitocin. I was so determined to have a natural birth but at the point they got that pitocin up to a useful level (after 24 hours), my uterus clamped down and I experienced the worst most torturous pain I have ever had in my life. I call it the 45 minute contraction from hell. I still can't believe I survived 45 minutes of that before calling in the drugs. I never got anywhere and ultimately had a c/section.

I was disappointed, sure. But I also knew every step of the way that the right decision had been made. I was in control as much as I could have been and I was happy with the choices that were made. I'm sorry those were the choices I had to choose from sure, but I don't look back and regret what I did. What I experienced was not normal labor and I didn't feel bad that I gave in to the drugs - it was unendurable.

I like the previous posters advice to go along with how she feels about the birth and focus on the baby! If she's disappointed, she'll tell you that, but she may also feel relieved, felt she made the right choice to choose pain medications - as you aren't/weren't there you can't know what her experience was and the best way to help her is to accept what she says and empathize with her whether it is happiness or sadness.

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#43 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 09:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post

If she does have a c-section, I strongly recommend being very careful about using the terms "c-birth", "cesarean birth", "belly birth", etc. Some women feel much better when they feel that their experience is being recognized as a birth. Some women, like me, feel that their experience is being further dismissed. The above terms set my teeth on edge, and it really pisses me off when someone uses them with respect to my experiences...just one more way of saying that my reality isn't real. Try to find out how she feels about that first...

I strongly agree with this. It is "birth" plain and simple - for the same reason that we don't refer to someone as our "jewish friend" or our "Chinese friend" or whatever.
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#44 of 60 Old 06-22-2007, 10:33 PM
 
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I think the very most important thing to remember is to never ever say anything along the lines of "At least you have a healthy baby" if the mama is expressing feelings of inadequacy or unhappiness about the c-section. After my section, that is all I heard from well-meaning family and friends...and I still hear it to this day.

edited:sorry, rushed to post this and didn't see the above comments related to this commonly used phrase

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#45 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 02:51 AM
 
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I strongly agree with this. It is "birth" plain and simple - for the same reason that we don't refer to someone as our "jewish friend" or our "Chinese friend" or whatever.
Yes - but I meant the exact opposite. Someone can refer to my surgeries as "birth"...once. After that, I'll have made it clear that they're being offensive, and if they continue to use that terminology, I'll have to assume that their concern is with something other than providing me with support. For other women, that's different.

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#46 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 03:19 AM
 
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Yes - but I meant the exact opposite. Someone can refer to my surgeries as "birth"...once. After that, I'll have made it clear that they're being offensive, and if they continue to use that terminology, I'll have to assume that their concern is with something other than providing me with support. For other women, that's different.
And I'm the exact oposite... for me to refer to my birth as anything but a birth is offensive to me.

Storm Bride and I disagree on what we call it, but I think we agree that whatever the mom wants to call hers, is what you should call it... and to do otherwise is highly disrespectful.

If she wants to call it mumbeldy peg... that's what I'd suggest that you call it for her.
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#47 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 11:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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wow I checked back this morning thanks so much for all the advice- I am going back now to read it all- Good news though my sis delivered her baby with no further intervention about 4 hours later and so far is nursing great. This question I am glad I asked because it does seem to come up a lot, and I am unsure what to say.
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#48 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 11:29 AM
 
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Wonderful! I am so glad that it turned out well! Congratulations, on the new baby, Auntie!

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#49 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
 
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oh wow...
It was great actually hearing from all the sides, my other sister has had 2 c sections the first after a long labor and the second scheduled, She has seemed happy with her choice and we had kind of clashed some on that It was good to remember that it is her body and if she is happy with it, just to validate her. I had a friend when I had my first baby who had a baby at the same time and had an emergancy c section, she was really depressed about it and had many of the feelings that have been discussed here, I think I probably said the "well its a healthy baby thing" and didn't validate her, I am so glad I asked this question so I will be better prepared in the future
side note my sis had a baby boy 9lbs 14oz 21inches long
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#50 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 01:24 PM
 
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wow I checked back this morning thanks so much for all the advice- I am going back now to read it all- Good news though my sis delivered her baby with no further intervention about 4 hours later and so far is nursing great. This question I am glad I asked because it does seem to come up a lot, and I am unsure what to say.
Oh GOOD!!!!

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#51 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 01:26 PM
 
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side note my sis had a baby boy 9lbs 14oz 21inches long
: My ds, vaginal delivery in a hospital w/ plenty of interventions, was 9lb 8oz, 21.5 inches long. Then my sil had a 9lb 3 oz 21 in baby boy c/s. Something about them being over 9 lbs (and nearly 10 in your sister's case!!!) is just mind boggling.

I'm so glad things went ok for her! Congratulations!!!

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#52 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 03:57 PM
 
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wow I checked back this morning thanks so much for all the advice- I am going back now to read it all- Good news though my sis delivered her baby with no further intervention about 4 hours later and so far is nursing great. This question I am glad I asked because it does seem to come up a lot, and I am unsure what to say.


Congrats to her and her great big boy!
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#53 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 04:21 PM
 
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Congratulations to your sis!

It's funny how different perspectives can be - 9lbs 14oz seems small to me! (But then mine were 10.5 and 11!)

Mightymoo - Mom to DD (6) and DS (4)
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#54 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 05:39 PM
 
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Congratulations Auntie! Glad to hear that her birth went well

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#55 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by intorainbowz View Post
Storm Bride and I disagree on what we call it, but I think we agree that whatever the mom wants to call hers, is what you should call it... and to do otherwise is highly disrespectful.
:

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#56 of 60 Old 06-23-2007, 10:23 PM
 
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wow I checked back this morning thanks so much for all the advice- I am going back now to read it all- Good news though my sis delivered her baby with no further intervention about 4 hours later and so far is nursing great. This question I am glad I asked because it does seem to come up a lot, and I am unsure what to say.
Congratulations, Auntie Frog.

I hope everything continues to go well for your sister and your new nephew.

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#57 of 60 Old 06-25-2007, 02:49 AM
 
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Congratulations Auntie, and to your sis as well. Wonderful news!!

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#58 of 60 Old 06-25-2007, 09:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Martha_2sons View Post
One piece of advice that I've gotten, that I think is good, is to refer to a c/s as a cesarean BIRTH.

I was coerced into a scheduled c-section for fetal macrosomia (9lb8.5oz) and I hate it, absolutely hate it whenever anyone refers to the arrival of my child as a cesarean "birth" I did not get to give birth to my child, sure she was born, but I did not get to give birth to her. That right was robbed from me. I know every woman feels different about this, so I think anyone discussing a c-section with a mom who had one should follow her lead on it.

To the original OP: Follow your sisters lead. She may just be so enthralled at the arrival of her new babe, that she won't care too much at first, or she could be wiped out and exhausted and not want to ever go through that experience again. She may take a while and want to rehash her labor and birth experience later. Or, she may feel that all the interventions were necessary, and be fine with it.

Of course, I now see that your new nephew has arrived and it seems to be going pretty well. I hope that your sister has a great babymoon.
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#59 of 60 Old 06-25-2007, 09:43 AM
 
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I don't think I've ever visited a new mother without her telling me about her birth on her own, without my prompting. I wait until the mom says something, and then I use active listening and let her know that I care about how she feels. If she's happy about her birth experience, regardless of whether I think it might have been able to have been done differently, I let her know I'm happy for her and I celebrate with her. If she's unhappy (and I've known moms who have been very unhappy about their birth experiences and who have cried when they talk about it) I empathize with her and let her know that she and her feelings matter.
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#60 of 60 Old 06-25-2007, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Storm Bride View Post
Nothing? Thanks. I'll be sure to let my kids know that having a mother who can't take care of them post-op, and who spent their entire childhoods fighting to be a mom, instead of just slicing her wrists so she could forget the OR, doesn't matter.

It's also very nice to know that my healthy babies are the important thing...maybe I should just off myself, since I'm not important, anyway.

I can honestly say that I never expected to see the vile "a healthy baby is all that matters" crap here on MDC.
Wow! Just chill, will you?

What I was trying to say is that my sister feels happier when she tries to focus on what comes AFTER the babies were born since the births were not good experiences for us.

I did not mean to say that what other people feel is insignificant! I just did not come across like I wanted, I guess. What I meant to say is that there is no point in making women who did not have a chance to give birth naturally feel bad, but to support them instead. I have seen many women go on and on about how perfect their natural births were and how much of a loss people who had a c-section had - and then hurt their feelings in the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post
You said "The few hours of labour are nothing", "that motherhood is "what really matters", and that "the important thing" is the baby's health".

You didn't imply, you out and out said that Birth/Labor is "nothing". You implied that they "don't really matter" like motherhood does, and that "the important thing" is baby's health, leaving no room for mom's birth experience to be important as well.
No, she did not - I did (though not exactly as you put t) And I am realizing that I just messed it all up coming across in a way I did not intend to!! I was just trying to cheer up people who have not had the chance or who may never had the chance to have a natural birth! I have seen so many women being ridicularized and mocked for not having done it the natural way - my sister for example. She was feeling so bad about it and it was not her choice. What I try to tell her is that she is a wonderful mom and the birth experiences were just a small part of the whole process and to love herself for her great achievements. She likes to hear that and thanked me many times - and I was just writing about it! Not saying that other moms' experiences are unimportant or anything like that.

It just all came across all wrong - crap for cyber conversations!! :

FYI - I am against c-sections and I have birthed 4 babies 100% naturally (next one will be a homebirth).
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