PROM @ 33w4d, breech presentation, currently home AMA--support please - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 03:02 AM
 
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What a crazy, shocking story... I've only just tuned in. It sounds like a blessing that this baby is a biggie to begin with, although naturally, I would like to give things a little longer to finish baking...

I have wondered that about breeches in Ontario also since I first read the transfer of care guidelines 3 years ago... like you said about the parking lot; what do they do if you insist on birthing vaginally? Or at least, refusing the c/s without a "trial" of pushing?

Your mw sounds so capable & experienced... what a relief. Sadly, I would doubt the ability of newer Ontario mw's to deliver breech bc the guidelines are so restrictive - I doubt many newcomers have the practical experience. Too bad, bc this used to be a huge part of the art of midwifery. :-(((

Anyway, in case this really is it, ELV and extra-super healing vibes to you & baby...
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#62 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 03:10 AM
 
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Thinking of you and praying the babe stays put a week or two longer! I am *amazed* at how well you've stood up for yourself and your baby! Truly amazing and an incredible heritage for your little one to have a mama who cares SO deeply about doing things the best way possible.

Hugs to you! Keep us posted!

HeatherB ~ mama to 3 wonderful boys:  reading.gif 03/02; modifiedartist.gif09/04; sleepytime.gif 09/07 - and Eliana, babygirl.gif 11/13/10!  
Founder of Houston Birth Alternatives: Be Informed, Encouraged, Supported birth support group and aspiring midwife.

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#63 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Your mw sounds so capable & experienced... what a relief. Sadly, I would doubt the ability of newer Ontario mw's to deliver breech bc the guidelines are so restrictive - I doubt many newcomers have the practical experience. Too bad, bc this used to be a huge part of the art of midwifery. :-(((

In reality, they hardly ever do catch breeches anymore. I'm just very fortunate to have this particular midwife so passionate about the issue (and experienced). What's eating at me now is that I'm being told by so many OBs that my baby is at an increased risk just because OBs don't have experience doing vaginal breech deliveries. While my perfectly capable, qualified, experienced and capable midwife must stand uselessly by. The OBs in question ought to be grateful for the opportunity to practice something that they ought to know they need to brush up on.: This is all so, so wrong.

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#64 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thinking of you and praying the babe stays put a week or two longer! I am *amazed* at how well you've stood up for yourself and your baby! Truly amazing and an incredible heritage for your little one to have a mama who cares SO deeply about doing things the best way possible.

Hugs to you! Keep us posted!
Thanks mama. I appreciate your support a lot.

I have had birth trauma in the past from bad experiences. But I went to counseling in the interim, and I realized most of the trauma was because I felt I was not listened to. Not only that, but that I didn't stand up for myself as much as I could have. This time, I will not be bullied into doing things that are unnecessary and harmful. Like I said, I already feel some injury from the abusive treatment I've received, and I will probably have to deal with this anger later on too, but it would be much worse if I were sitting in a hospital bed right now doing nothing but waiting for my inevitable c-section. After this is done, I will have to participate in the process of change that is so slow and arduous. I can't just accept this.

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#65 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 10:58 AM
 
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Thanks mama. I appreciate your support a lot.

I have had birth trauma in the past from bad experiences. But I went to counseling in the interim, and I realized most of the trauma was because I felt I was not listened to. Not only that, but that I didn't stand up for myself as much as I could have. This time, I will not be bullied into doing things that are unnecessary and harmful. Like I said, I already feel some injury from the abusive treatment I've received, and I will probably have to deal with this anger later on too, but it would be much worse if I were sitting in a hospital bed right now doing nothing but waiting for my inevitable c-section. After this is done, I will have to participate in the process of change that is so slow and arduous. I can't just accept this.
You are so brave and strong. I know I said this yesterday, but you are an inspiration. It is this bullying (and giving in to it ) that is the most traumatic and frightening aspect of childbirth to me.

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#66 of 220 Old 07-20-2007, 12:33 PM
 
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In reality, they hardly ever do catch breeches anymore. I'm just very fortunate to have this particular midwife so passionate about the issue (and experienced). What's eating at me now is that I'm being told by so many OBs that my baby is at an increased risk just because OBs don't have experience doing vaginal breech deliveries. While my perfectly capable, qualified, experienced and capable midwife must stand uselessly by. The OBs in question ought to be grateful for the opportunity to practice something that they ought to know they need to brush up on.: This is all so, so wrong.
So have they acknowledged in principle that you're within your rights, at least? Idiots. Now they're trying the tactic that was used on me - "I can't do it safely, I'd probably hurt your baby..." Bst. If they were really that concerned about their skills and that they would injure the babe, they'd back off let BA catch. I mean seriously.

Have you given thought to what you're going to allow for the birth itself? There are a lot of ways to "manage" breech delivery, the safest of which is to let you move around and birth in whatever position your body requires of you. You probably know this, but they will want to put you in the OR, in lithotomy, with high likelihood of a great big epi. If you consent to do it in the OR, you may want to insist that they bring in a real labouring bed since you can't assume different positions on an OR table - it's intended, obviously, for anaesthetized people and is patently unsafe for a non-medicated birth.

Not that I'm trying to give you more stress, you know that. But... at the time I was facing this, I was completely shocked by the idea of lithotomy, epi, etc. and my MW, with what i now recognize as panic in her voice, said to me, "you're going to have to make some compromises, they're going to be scared, you'll have to do it their way." Now, the idea of an epi scares me nearly so much as surgery itself. I did a lot of thinking and at the time was prepared to compromise... but since then I've done more thinking. My take on it now is... "As long as everything is going smoothly, I'll do this any way I like, thanks. If I have a problem, I'll do whatever you like, promptly. I'll let you know if I'm having a problem."

Incidentally I also have a vaginal breech birthing plan if you want to read/borrow/steal.

xo Robin
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#67 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Mamas,

Thanks again for all your kind words of support.

I thought I would just let you know where things stand right now.

My midwife has scheduled me for an ultrasound on Monday to do a BPP since my hospital is now refusing me outpatient care (in an effort to coerce me into admitting myself). I'm glad to have that lined up, because while I do feel good about how the baby is doing, a little reassurance will go a long way for both DP and I. I also want to confirm that baby's position.

My doula has injured herself and asked me yesterday to please wait until Monday to have the baby. I'll do my best .

I'm feeling reasonably settled with things, knowing now that the baby is 34w2d is good, and there is a reasonable possibility we could make 35 weeks.

But, I am having contractions. They have not increased in frequency or intensity, but they don't stop. They are usually a few an hour, so only every 20 minutes or so, but it's exhausting as it has been this way since Monday, and sometimes they do come much more frequently then peter out. They require concentration. I've been through a hard natural labour before so I do know that these are the medium kind, not the easy early kind. They seem to either be more painful or frequent at night, or they just bother me more when I'm trying to sleep. In any case, it's 3:50am and I decided if I'm going to be kept up in my bed, I may as well come downstairs and have less annoying contractions.

I will keep y'all posted on how things progress. At this point, my biggest concern is the possibility of a c-section, and the worry of having one that is unnecessary. Like I explained, I know they will do or say almost anything to convince me that a c-section is necessary while I'm there in labour trying for a vaginal delivery. I've done some research on what actually constitutes a good reason for c-section, and it feels rediculous that I feel I have to know as much as an obstetrician about high-risk scenarios in order to make an informed decision. More even, it seems.

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#68 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 09:25 AM
 
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Hi Mamas,

Thanks again for all your kind words of support.

I thought I would just let you know where things stand right now.

My midwife has scheduled me for an ultrasound on Monday to do a BPP since my hospital is now refusing me outpatient care (in an effort to coerce me into admitting myself). I'm glad to have that lined up, because while I do feel good about how the baby is doing, a little reassurance will go a long way for both DP and I. I also want to confirm that baby's position.

My doula has injured herself and asked me yesterday to please wait until Monday to have the baby. I'll do my best .

I'm feeling reasonably settled with things, knowing now that the baby is 34w2d is good, and there is a reasonable possibility we could make 35 weeks.

But, I am having contractions. They have not increased in frequency or intensity, but they don't stop. They are usually a few an hour, so only every 20 minutes or so, but it's exhausting as it has been this way since Monday, and sometimes they do come much more frequently then peter out. They require concentration. I've been through a hard natural labour before so I do know that these are the medium kind, not the easy early kind. They seem to either be more painful or frequent at night, or they just bother me more when I'm trying to sleep. In any case, it's 3:50am and I decided if I'm going to be kept up in my bed, I may as well come downstairs and have less annoying contractions.

I will keep y'all posted on how things progress. At this point, my biggest concern is the possibility of a c-section, and the worry of having one that is unnecessary. Like I explained, I know they will do or say almost anything to convince me that a c-section is necessary while I'm there in labour trying for a vaginal delivery. I've done some research on what actually constitutes a good reason for c-section, and it feels rediculous that I feel I have to know as much as an obstetrician about high-risk scenarios in order to make an informed decision. More even, it seems.
Thinking about you. I'm checking here regularly but please call if you need an ear.
xo Robin
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#69 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 09:48 AM
 
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keep strong Mama!
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#70 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 10:31 AM
 
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Baby wait vibes coming your way

I'm proud of you for standing your ground against the doctor-bullies. You must be under so much stress.

Tis the season, for hot apple cider!
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#71 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 12:58 PM
 
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I've done some research on what actually constitutes a good reason for c-section, and it feels rediculous that I feel I have to know as much as an obstetrician about high-risk scenarios in order to make an informed decision. More even, it seems.
Yes. Being forced into this position drives me nuts. We *should* be able to trust hcp, but unfortunately it frequently doesn't work that way.
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#72 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We still don't have a name for this baby.

This experience must certainly colour his/her name!

We do not know the sex of the baby, but we *think* it's a boy (intuitively, but for no other reason).

For a girl, we had thought of Ignacia long ago. We conceived in Rome, and it's Italian-like, and it means "fire"--something I wish for my kids. But then I realized that I have a much more passive partner, and between he and I, something like "Imogen" makes more sense. We also have a mild-mannered child together already. But, this whole thing leads me more toward Ignacia...especially if she's got red in her tones...as she very well could possibly.

For a boy, we're stuck. We like Oscar, Simon, Calvin and Mortimer. But, none of these really fits this scenario and I don't think I can use any of them. This whole adventure...water breaking early on an island, boat, ambulance, airplane, then the fights with the hospital about breech/c-section, leaving AMA, etc...and the birth promises some drama no matter what it turns out to be. I feel like this baby needs a strong, adventurous name. But I'm stumped.

Does anyone have any ideas for boy or girl names? Something strong, even fierce, or passionate, or something to do with change, progress, standing up for what's right?

It's nice to take a minute to think about this new person coming.

One other note...there is one OB who is sort of sympathetic and is my ideal of all the OBs who could possibly attend the birth. His name is Roman. Given the Rome history, I think I might consider something of a variant...or even for a middle name. The odds of this guy being there are slim as he's only on call for 2 12-hour shifts out of the week. If he is the one there, then that would surely be a sign.

And, while I've never been known to think of naming babies after people (first 2 have no ancestral names or otherwise), I may consider a tribute to my fine midwife somewhere in there.

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#73 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 01:34 PM
 
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Well, you could always just use the masculine form of Ignatia...Ignatius...

Mama to two awesome kids. Wife to a wonderful, attached, loving husband. I love my job-- I'm a Midwife, Doula and Childbirth Educator, Classes forming now!

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#74 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 03:34 PM
 
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Indiana? LOL just kidding. Hmmm... Harrison is nice though. And given to adventure - outer space, tomb raiding, chasing criminals... although I've always wondered what his friends call him for short.
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#75 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 03:38 PM
 
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Maverick!

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#76 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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If you like the fire theme, how about Blaze?

Of course, I'm biased about the name, since I already have a Blaze. :
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#77 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 05:48 PM
 
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I like Roman! That was on our list for a while.

Funny when I was reading your post the name "Caleb" jumped out at me. I don't think it's particularly adventurous or anything, and it's not a name I've ever thought of. Weird.

Kate, mom to 7 year old Djuna and 4 yr old Alden. Missing our good friend Hal the cat who died June 2, 2010

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#78 of 220 Old 07-21-2007, 06:45 PM
 
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I have a son named Jupiter. The counterpart to that is Zeus. My next boy will probably by Archemedes. I also have a Milo who was a greek wrestler in ancient times. He used to carry a bull calf around on his shoulders to show off!
I love the name Atticus after Atticus Finch he was a tough guy with grace.

Angela
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#79 of 220 Old 07-22-2007, 03:04 PM
 
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Quote:
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Does anyone have any ideas for boy or girl names? Something strong, even fierce, or passionate, or something to do with change, progress, standing up for what's right?
I also wanted a name that reflected our arduous HBAC journey together, and our decision to stand up for what was right- I chose Loren (derived from Laurence) for my son:



LAURENCE (1)
Gender: Masculine Usage: English Pronounced: LAWR-ents [key]
From the Roman cognomen Laurentius, which meant "of Laurentum". Laurentum was a city in ancient Italy, its name probably deriving from Latin laurus "laurel". Saint Laurence was a 3rd-century deacon and martyr from Rome. According to tradition he was roasted alive on a gridiron because, when ordered to hand over the church's treasures, he presented the sick and poor.

Mama to my spirited J, and L, my homebirth: baby especially DTaP, MMR (family vax injuries)
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#80 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 12:00 AM
 
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Thinking of you mama and you baby!!!!

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#81 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 04:20 AM
 
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Thinking of you today,

I don't know if she's still on the board, but try PMing Spark. She had PROM at this stage in her pregnancy almost 2 years ago and chose the "wait and see" option, at home, with her m/w. Baby wasn't breech though.
Also, a birth story for you. It is a medicalised breech extraction rather than a birth, but there's a lot of similarities there.
I just want to hypothesise- these contractions could be your cervix dilating, but it could also be your body trying to turn baby vertex. It's probably not going to happen, but I've found the process of breech babies turning (or transverse babies turning) tends to accompany quite strong ctx. every time and can be very uncomfortable.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#82 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for thinking of me. At this point, I have started to think mroe about what the birth might look like at the hospital. I'm starting to be concerned about it becoming a circus since insisting on this breech birth seems such a big deal. I am imagining hearing "them" talk about the breech birth, the crazy mother, the risks, all within earshot and all in professional hushed tones in the room. I'm imagining all the gawkers who want to come see it, and the nurses mauling me. The excessive monitoring, the hysterics if something even slightly off happens. So even if they "let" me do it, I think the birthing environment will be quite poor. I don't think that is a pessimistic or latent worry; I think it is realtistic given what I've seen so far and what I understand to be true about my case. I guess it's better to prepare for this now.

The good news is that my midwife will be there as a support person, and we have hired a doula who will also be there. I will talk to the doula today about it. I'm not sure how much of this I can avoid. Add to that the early baby stuff, and sheesh, it's bound to be circus.

It's very important to me that this birth remain drug free because of the information the pain will give me about how to birth this baby. I have had very difficult labours and I know how intense the pain experience is for me. It is going to be so so hard to manage this situation while in that kind of pain. And, I'm also imagining everyone trying to give me pain meds. Ugh.

Thanks for letting me talk about it here.

4 kids under 10
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#83 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 10:13 AM
 
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There's an email address on the birth story I posted above- Ruth used to be my neighbour, later trained as an antenatal teacher and is a very big advocate for homebirth and keeping birth normal. She also has a lot of experience of working within hospital settings
You may be surprised by your levels of pain- or lack of it. After all, you've had difficult labours before but you've never birthed a breech baby Just take things as they come, one minute, hour, day, contraction at a time.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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#84 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi ladies! I'm having contractions every 5-6 minutes for one minute each time...I'm going to call my midwife soon. Oddly enough, I feel it more important to find out which OB is on call right now so I'm actually calling the hospital first : . The "good" willing OB is on at 5:00 today. Hopefully it will take that long.

Or, this could peter out. It happened with dd2.

Wish me luck.

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#85 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 01:26 PM
 
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Thinking of you. Hang in there, be strong, you DO know what's best. And pp is right, this labour WILL be completely different from your previous ones. Different baby, different circumstances. Breathe. You can do this.
love Robin
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#86 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 01:30 PM
 
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Wishing you major luck mama! You can do this! Crossing my fingers and praying for a happy birth for you!
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#87 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks! Still going strong, though I'm confused...they're now every 3-4 minutes but shorter...only 35-45 seconds each. Hmmm....boy this is annoying.

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#88 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 01:55 PM
 
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I'm going to keep you in my thoughts today! Thanks for all the updates; I keep checking to see how things are going. In your post further above, I just wanted to say that I fear those things for you, too, BUT...I think you're incredibly strong & determined, and you will overcome all of the negative atmosphere they can throw at you. Not only do you have your midwife to support you there, but also many people here who will be cheering you on in our hearts. Mama...I hope if today IS the day, that it will slow down and happen after "good" OB takes his shift...and also if today's the day, I wish you a safe birth free from fear and meddling.
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#89 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 01:58 PM
 
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Thanks for the update!

Just thinking out loud...Would it be easier to vaginally birth a pre-term baby? I don't think the cervix would have to be as dilated to deliver the head safely since the head is smaller?
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#90 of 220 Old 07-23-2007, 02:02 PM
 
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Thinking of you mama. Baby!!! Go slow, wait for the good doc!!

Single mama to Alex(13), Maddy(12), Sam(8), Violet(6), and Ruby(3). fly-by-nursing1.gif
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