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#61 of 113 Old 09-30-2007, 05:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ssolberg99 View Post
Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."
Guess that clears that right up.

So, there's another reason not to get an epidural. If you do, you're trying to weasel your way out of God's punishment for the sins of Eve. I never thought of it that way before.
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#62 of 113 Old 09-30-2007, 05:37 PM
 
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It is definitely offensive. Childbirth is an empowering experience, and epidural or not, it takes a strong woman to go through it and the nine months on pregnancy. Definitely not for "sissies". I had an unmedicated birth and while I was pregnant one of my biggest fears was that I was going to have to have an epidural. I would be scared to death having that huge needle stuck in my back!!! I'll take the pain before I will let them stick me.

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#63 of 113 Old 09-30-2007, 06:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ssolberg99 View Post
Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."
Yeah. Except that there are women who do conceive, are pregnant, and give birth joyously and with pleasure. Hm. How can that be, if the Bible is the literal word of God. Hm, hm, hm. Maybe God was wrong? No, no, can't be that. Maybe the translation was mucked up somewhere along the line, maybe all those great educated men who do the translations, who know SO much about birth, have missed some subtle differences in meaning? Or, maybe all those women who relish in their childbearing are just daughters of Satan. I dunno, you decide.
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#64 of 113 Old 10-01-2007, 11:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssolberg99
Well, the Bible answers that one...After the fall of man...Genesis 3:16 To the woman he [God] said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children."

Yeah. Except that there are women who do conceive, are pregnant, and give birth joyously and with pleasure. Hm. How can that be, if the Bible is the literal word of God. Hm, hm, hm. Maybe God was wrong? No, no, can't be that. Maybe the translation was mucked up somewhere along the line, maybe all those great educated men who do the translations, who know SO much about birth, have missed some subtle differences in meaning? Or, maybe all those women who relish in their childbearing are just daughters of Satan. I dunno, you decide.
actually if you look back at the orginal hewbrew -- the word should be, can be, tranlated as actually LABOR as in WORK or EFFORT -- the orgianl has no implication of PAIN other than a pain of work or tired... not a literal pain as in injury or punishment. Adam was cured to LABOR to bring forth food -- ie to WORK the land and the woman is cursed to LABOR for birth -- ie to work for it. God never promised PAIN in child birth ...THAT is later interperation and tranlastion done by...men (ir the gender men, not men as in Man as in Human race) ................



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#65 of 113 Old 10-01-2007, 11:29 AM
 
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Hi, everyone! Let's remember that:

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Our community is made up of many nationalities, religions, ages, colors, ethnicities, philosophies, affectional orientations, economic groups, lifestyles, and family structures.
Let's take any religious debate/discussion relating to birth to the Religious Studies forum so that we don't derail the original topic. Any questions or concerns, please PM me. Thanks

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#66 of 113 Old 10-01-2007, 06:01 PM
 
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Giving birth hurts because we have evolved to bipedal creatures. Our pelvises have adjusted so that we can do things with our hands and opposable thumbs.
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#67 of 113 Old 10-01-2007, 06:14 PM
 
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I´m in the ¨itś petty¨ camp. It just makes it seem like natural birth is some sort of unattainable thing that the average woman can´t do. I get the point of it and really can´t work up the energy to get that offended by a t-shirt. The most it might get from me is an eye roll, but most likely nothing.
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#68 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 12:43 AM
 
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I think it's funny, but I wouldn't want to offend those women who got an epidural for a reason. I mean, maybe I would have gotten one if I hadn't been home?
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#69 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 12:57 AM
 
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I'm not offended.. I had 4 natural births , 1 epidural. I wouldnt wear it, but if saw it, would think its cool.
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#70 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 01:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by meisterfrau View Post
Guess that clears that right up.

So, there's another reason not to get an epidural. If you do, you're trying to weasel your way out of God's punishment for the sins of Eve. I never thought of it that way before.
There are hospitals back in the day that refused meds to laboring women for just exactly that reason.
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#71 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 01:12 AM
 
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I'm sorry, and this is not only OT but petty and immature, but I really can't get past the fact that the guy's name is Dr. Grantly Dick-Read. It's been cracking me up since I first read it on this thread.
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#72 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 01:33 AM
 
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I see why pro-unmedicated-birth people want to stand up for it or even advocate their way on ther shrit.

but man, I'm sick of seeing women that tear down other women's choices.

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#73 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 01:53 AM
 
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Wearing that shirt pretty much doubles your chances of getting an epidural. Quadruple if you have the nerve to don it as labor is starting.

I didn't have an epidural because the pain wasn't too bad but I can believe that people experience pain very differently. I can only imagine how someone would feel if they didn't want an epidural but ended up getting one and they were walking down the street and saw this. I had a lot of trouble with breastfeeding and certainly don't want to see a "Pumping is for sissies" t-shirt anytime soon.
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#74 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 02:12 AM
 
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I don't believe in calling names, and "sissy" applies. You can catch more flies with honey... My view on epidurals, doesn't really matter.

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#75 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 03:31 AM
 
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People who think it's 'funny' or 'cool' to mock another's birth practices on a t-shirt seem, on the outset, to be doing it from a place of being positive towards the sensitive and natural theme of birth. But I would love to pose this perspective to them:
Birth is as natural, universal, and 'mystical' as sex. It really is, in pretty much every aspect if one were to truly deconstruct the idea and the practice of both. In that light, I think it's repulsive to insult a woman for opting out of an unbearably painful excersize of either activity simply because she was either a) physically or emotionally unprepared or unable to carry it out or b) in an environment not conducive to a peaceful experience.
That's what sticks in my craw about this topic when it comes down to it. We can put witty lines about anything under the sun on a stupid tee-shirt but we really need to look at what those statements are saying in the bigger picture.
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#76 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 03:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Inca View Post


I had an epi for my first after 44 hours of labor - yes - there is a breaking point!

And yes - it is offending!
: I had mine after the pain from contractions caused by cytotec and breaking my waters, caused me to go into delerium and I was at the point of screaming and trying to stop every inch of my body from touching anything by arching my way off the bed. I was told by my doula, that the nurse rushed to get the meds to stop my contractions and get an epi because she thought she was going to witness a uterine rupture, she even said that to my doula. I have little to no memory of about 4 hrs of my labor because of that. I had educated myself, had doulas, and was toughing it out without the epi, I didnt even consent to the epi from what I know, they had me sign the paperwork once i was stable and able to sign something again.

There are reasons for epis and women who get them arn't "sissies".
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#77 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 03:59 AM
 
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I dunno. I've had an epidural (horrible experience) and I've had two natural childbirths. I'm not ashamed of the epidural (mad with the OB, yes, but no feelings of failure here.) And I"m not proud of the natural childbirths. It was just what I chose to do.

I wouldn't wear the shirt, but I also don't find it offensive. I have to say I find it funny. I can see from other responses here that I'm missing something, but sometimes I wonder if we don't need to lighten up a bit.

But as I say, I am missing the point. I"ve read all the responses, but can't seem to find it offensive, nor do I see it as tearing other women down. I just see it as a 'way out there' radical statement that maybe makes some people think. But then, I have a weird sense of humour sometimes. :
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#78 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 04:22 AM
 
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But then, I have a weird sense of humour sometimes.
I forgot about this perspective
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#79 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 07:42 AM
 
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We can put witty lines about anything under the sun on a stupid tee-shirt but we really need to look at what those statements are saying in the bigger picture.
ITA -- EXCEPT this phrase isn't even witty. A four year old at preschool could come up with this one.

After laboring with my ds for 72 hours, plus the mental stress of knowing that he was going to be born at 32 weeks, and the need for an emergency c-section that saved both of our lives, I am very thankful for what bit of pain relief the epidural provided. I think the t-shirt is an open display of ignorance. I prefer to keep my ignorance hidden.

WonderWahine: I am so sorry that happened to you. I am sure you would have preferred an uncomplicated natural childbirth.
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#80 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 09:52 AM
 
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I don't know. Maybe a bit offensive.

Liv, SAHM of 3 kiddos 

 

 

 

 

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#81 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 01:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post
I wouldn't wear the shirt, but I also don't find it offensive. I have to say I find it funny. I can see from other responses here that I'm missing something, but sometimes I wonder if we don't need to lighten up a bit.
I think what you're missing is how traumatizing some of the posters' birth experiences have been. If you understood what they were saying you'd understand why they can't just "lighten up a bit" and you'd understand that suggesting they should do so is about as dismissive and cavalier as the t-shirt is.
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#82 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 02:27 PM
 
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WonderWahine: I am so sorry that happened to you. I am sure you would have preferred an uncomplicated natural childbirth.
thanks I had, but I am semi at peace with my birth experience, I have a beautiful boy to hold because of it. And I have learnt what to avoid next time.... eg never trust ob's
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#83 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 02:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum View Post

I wouldn't wear the shirt, but I also don't find it offensive. I have to say I find it funny. I can see from other responses here that I'm missing something, but sometimes I wonder if we don't need to lighten up a bit.
I don't think I need to lighten up. Like I tell my kids, we don't need to put others down in order to make ourselves feel good. We're fabulous enough as it is.

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#84 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 03:07 PM
 
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I'd rather have a shirt and shorts combo - shirt says "Not getting an epidural" bottom of the shorts say "Epidurals scare the shit out of me!"
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#85 of 113 Old 10-02-2007, 03:12 PM
 
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I've had 1 emergency (but probably unnecessary) c-sect and 1 HBAC and I don't find the shirt offensive. However, I also don't find it funny.
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#86 of 113 Old 10-03-2007, 09:25 AM
 
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I think it's funny and I got an epidural. My reasoning behind thinking it's funny is because that was the truth for me. I sissied out....was too afraid of a natural process and gave in....then got a c-section again. So, whatever. I wouldn't be offended if I saw someone wearing it. Freedom of speech.
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#87 of 113 Old 10-03-2007, 07:56 PM
 
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I think its funny, I was planning on getting one to wear during labor (at home, nobody would seeeeee) just for the humor and maybe a funny picture or two.

I'm sick of the "I want my epidural NOW" tee shirts on women who are like four months along. I think thats funny too, neither are offensive to me, but tiresome after you see so many. I'd rather see an "epidurals are for sissies" shirt over those anyday.. and I think thats where these shirts originated from, not just a way to "put people down" but stemming from the frustration of everybody and their brother (er, sister) having "epidural? yes please!" shirts. I can appreciate a sarcastic comeback.
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#88 of 113 Old 10-03-2007, 09:58 PM
 
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My thoughts:
1. I thank g*d every day for my epidural/spinal that allowed me to see the birth of my baby.

2. That shirt is provocative, and not in a good way. In an "I want to pick a fight with you" way. If that is your goal in life, well, then you're not really very nice.
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#89 of 113 Old 10-08-2007, 10:45 PM
 
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My thoughts:
That shirt is provocative, and not in a good way. In an "I want to pick a fight with you" way. If that is your goal in life, well, then you're not really very nice.
I agree. There's no need to pick a fight over birth choices. I'd be annoyed to see one that said "Homebirths are for Hippies" or something like that. I went with natural childbirth because I could and wanted to. Does it make me a hero? Only to myself. I'm not out to prove anything to anyone but me.

I do love the pregnancy ones that say "Got Pickles" and "Don't even think about touching the belly" - but this one is annoying. Just like the "Can I have my epidural now" bugs me too.
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#90 of 113 Old 10-08-2007, 11:20 PM
 
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I'm sorry, and this is not only OT but petty and immature, but I really can't get past the fact that the guy's name is Dr. Grantly Dick-Read. It's been cracking me up since I first read it on this thread.
OH me too.. ::: I mean, c'mon... Dick-Read????? I'd change my name.

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Originally Posted by avent View Post
Wearing that shirt pretty much doubles your chances of getting an epidural. Quadruple if you have the nerve to don it as labor is starting.
I can just see some laboring woman walking into a hospital wearing that shirt... That would be an odd sight.

Amy, mama to "Pumpkin" (DD1, 5/16/06) and "Squashy" (DD2, 7/10/09)
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance"- Confucius
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