Hubby won't let me deliver at a birthing center - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 86 Old 11-18-2007, 10:06 PM
 
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Every birth is different. Was his son's mother in the same shape as you? The same physical conditioning? The same age? The same medical history? Having the same sort of PG?

Every woman is different. Every PG is different. Every birth is different.

How, exactly, does he believe the human race survived and flourished before c-sections? Sheesh!
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#62 of 86 Old 11-18-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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Here are stats from the Lewis Mehl study in 1978. Think of how much the c/s rate has INCREASED since then, too.

Quote:
Neonatal Outcomes Hospital/Home:

In the hospital, 3.7 times as many babies required resuscitation.

Infection rates of newborns were 4 times higher in the hospital.

There was 2.5 times as many cases of meconium aspiration pneumonia in the hospital group.

There were 6 cases of neonatal lungwater syndrome in the hospital and none at home.

There were 30 birth injuries (mostly due to forceps) in the hospital group, and none at home.

The incidence of respiratory distress among newborns was 17 times greater in the hospital than in the home.

While neonatal and perinatal death rates were statistically the same for both groups, Apgar scores (a measure of physical well being of the newborn) were significantly worse in the hospital.

(Mehl, L., Peterson, G., Shaw, N.S., Creavy, D. (1978) "Outcomes of 1146 elective home births: a series of 1146 cases." J Repro Med.
19:281-90)
Not to mention MRSA infections which are becoming more and more common...and the large number of hospital errors that occur each year...

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#63 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 01:02 AM
 
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Perhaps you could find a way to reassure him that you could get to a hospital in plenty of time if a c-section were needed, that your midwife would call ahead so the hospital could prep while you were on your way, and that midwives are trained to recognize problems and transfer when appropriate.
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#64 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by HeathenMommy View Post
However I showed him the trailer and he FREAKED THE ^@## OUT about me looking at reactionary and inflammatory stuff that "doesn't even apply to you!" So I don't know how openminded this one can be.
I have the perfect video for you.

http://www.itvs.org/bornintheusa/index.html

Quote:
By examining the culture of birth practices in America, BORN IN THE U.S.A. raises questions about technology, safety and quality of care, and it challenges parents to be proactive about getting the kind of care they want and need.
I can't find a copyright date--I'd guess it's late 90s (so, it's current enough.)

It is one hour long, and in true documentary style, the film follows three birthing choices: birth center, home birth, and OB-attended hospital birth. The "biases", or viewpoints of the care providers are explicit; both the female OB and female homebirth midwife care about their birthing mamas, but the OB is so conservative, medical, and worry-ridden, and the midwife trusts birth with her low-risk population.

The birth center, naturally, offers the viewpoint that birth is natural and normal, and there are hospital resources nearby if needed. Also, it's worth noting the birth center offers service to inner-city low-income (therefore a higher risk) population.

The film is so brilliantly done, because without pushing a "pro-natural" agenda, just depicting honestly the three options pushes that reality home. The "what ifs" and "but she couldda died" concerns your dh has will be echoed by the OBs, and he will relate to that, but be a bit challenged to see if that's what he wants for this wife this time.

My own father is convinced that my mother almost died in childbirth. He is horrified when I am pregnant, because he fears for my life. He was not excited about my last homebirth, and congratulated me for not dying, basically. I have spoken with him on the topic, educated him about what was happening to my mother, I am a DONA-certified doula telling him this stuff, but I think there can be an elemental fear of childbirth for men that logic can't erase.

This video is available at many public libraries--my local library, the decently-funded Minneapolis Public Library System, didn't have it, but another library (the U of Minnesota's biomed library) DID have it....the secret is to talk to a librarian, who can help you inter-library loan ANYTHING you want....for SURE in the DC area you could get your hands on a copy (maybe they even have a VHS on the shelf of your birth center!)

Good luck. You deserve the birth you want.
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#65 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 12:02 PM
 
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It's good that you are only like 12-13 weeks, you have time to work on him! My DH was very against homebirth, but I made him go with me to interview a midwife and on the way (little over an hour) I hammered him with the info that I learned and how I haven't found a research study against homebirth that was reliable. He was still against it and kept bringing up that our son is healthy and we both turned out fine so why am I such a nut? I kept telling him that there is more than one way to get to a destination and I wanted the best route, not just one that "gets me there". I had a lot of birth trauma and painful recovery from tearing but he still had the conception of "healthy in the end---goal met" but then realized that my passion on the subject had purpose and became more open to it, even when our insurance wouldn't cover it.
I also had told him previously that I would never push towards homebirth, but as we get more educated we have a right to change our minds. Sure, when you start reading the claims against the medical world seem inflammatory and far fetched, and most people are "fine"... but.... fine isnt' good enough and trauma and injury to mom and baby are far more common than recorded in statistics. Be strong, don't let him manipulate you. Keep researching and make him go with to a midwife appt and let him try to argue with her. He needs to understand that this is a scary thing for you too and he needs to take into consideration that he is just a bystander and you will be the one at risk in the hospital, not him. I would also just schedule an appt at the birth center to interview the midwives. If he goes, discuss it, if he doesn't, then make your own decisions.
I really believe that the vagina has the final say...
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#66 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 12:30 PM
 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...ubmed_RVDocSum

If he's swayed at all by honest to goodness research (as opposed to individual stories), this is a great article to point him towards. The conclusion reads:
Quote:
CONCLUSIONS: Caesarean delivery independently reduces overall risk in breech presentations and risk of intrapartum fetal death in cephalic presentations but increases the risk of severe maternal and neonatal morbidity and mortality in cephalic presentations.
To turn it into English - if baby is breech, a c-section seems to reduce risk. But a section increases risks for both mom and baby in head down presentations.

(yes, as some have noted, this seems to have been published in the journal of Duh!)


I feel your pain in trying to work with your DH. I'm due in Feb, and I wanted a home birth very badly, but due to finances (mostly) and DH's comfort (partially) we decided that we're birthing at a hospital birthing center (there are no local free-standing birthing centers). I get how important it is to have the support of your partner, and sometimes that means that both of you have to make compromises. However, I think a birthing center is enough of a compromise for you to make (as opposed to UC or Homebirth), and he needs to do a little work now to understand where you're coming from.

I agree with the pp who said that your opinion should be default and he needs to convince you about his. Make the birth center appointment, and go from there!

Good luck!
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#67 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 01:06 PM
 
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There was something very recent (last year I think) that said it turns out it's not true that cesareans reduce the risk for breech babies.

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#68 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 01:06 PM
 
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I had an OB that promised me everything I wanted at my prenatal visits, we couldn't afford a homebirth midwife, and there were no birthing centers locally.

I had a birth plan that called for intermittent and hands on monitoring, free movement, "alternative" birthing positions, etc, etc. The doctor even promised a note in my file to call her in, even if she wasn't on call, and she'd come if she could.

There's a link to my birth story in my sig. Suffice to say, things did not go as planned. The hospital staff was very unhappy with compromising with me on anything that deviated from their flow chart, and the postnatal care was exactly everything I'd feared. If not for a familial tendency to have regular, strong contractions for many, many hours without measureable cervical change and then dialate and birth in less than an hour, things would have gone... badly.

As it was, they didn't believe I was really in labor, sent me home, and I barely made it back on time. And I mean barely. 13 minutes from the nurses' station to birth.

I hope things work out for you.
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#69 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 01:56 PM
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i agree with shelley, because she agrees with me.

as i mentioned before, and as shelley said, it is important to make the convincing up to him.

even if you agreed to a hospital birth initially, people can and do change their minds when they get more/new information. and, this is what you have done.

assert that you've done your research, that this is what you want, and for you to go back on this new decision, he has to convince you with his research.

and, my husband knows he has no say in the birth planning. i ask for his opinion, but he has no "say."

yes, it's his baby too, but that baby is entirely in my care until it is born and even then, that baby is predominently in my care (due to breastfeeding, etc).

his part is to support me and to protect me from those who do not support me. it's not to usurp my personal power, to make choices for me, and to have ultimate power in the relationship.

my husband also knows that anything having to do with my body, that he even *thinks* that he gets to make a decision about (without me being unconscious or incapacitated in some way), means that i walk.

yes, you heard it right.

and he's known it from the beginning.

I am fierce.

and that's one of many things he likes about me.
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#70 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 02:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
my husband also knows that anything having to do with my body, that he even *thinks* that he gets to make a decision about (without me being unconscious or incapacitated in some way), means that i walk.

yes, you heard it right.

and he's known it from the beginning.

I am fierce.

and that's one of many things he likes about me.
Amen! Real men aren't intimidated by strong women.

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#71 of 86 Old 11-19-2007, 04:28 PM
 
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well, my opinion has seriously changed since reading your updates. if he's not going to listen to the rational, statistical proof he asked for, then it's a whole different ball game.

my initial gut reaction is always to give someone the benefit of the doubt. i don't know your DH, so I can only offer advice based on what I would do in a similar situation. It's hard for me to imagine, really, that as scared for a good reason as a person might be that they wouldn't change their mind after reading unbiased statistical information about the safety of out of hospital birth (and the risks associated with hospital births - especially c-sections). My SIL (DH's sister) had two really scary medicalized birth experiences, one of which DH was there to witness first-hand in the delivery room. if anything, that convinced him even more that he didn't want our birth experience to go down like that.

anyway, my advice to you now is much the same as everyone else's. make your appointment at the birth center. tell him that if he thinks he can find statistical evidence to convince you that it's safer to birth in a hospital, he's welcome to try and that (unlike him) you'll be happy to review his research. i would also most definitely find a doula you love, and consider taking her to your Bradley classes. You might also consider Hypnobirthing classes if your DH is willing to attend those with you - the fear release session alone would be worth the price of admission for you both.

do you know more about the story of his ex's birth? knowing what exactly happened would allow you (or better yet, your midwife) to address those issues and how they either wouldn't happen out of the hospital (ie: baby wouldn't descend and mom couldn't move around due to epidural, eventually causing baby's distress and ultimate c/s) or how it would be handled if an event that truly warranted a c/s occurred (ie: cord prolapse).
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#72 of 86 Old 11-21-2007, 10:46 PM
 
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Ultimately, the decision is up to you.
But please take your husband's concerns into consideration. Is there a way you can compromise? Such as delivering at a hospital with a midwife and a doula? That might put his mind at ease. You can have a natural birth at a hospital. Women do it all the time, but you have to make preparations, as you already know.
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#73 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 12:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, Hubby and I have agreed that he's gonna do the reading I suggest to him, and thanks again for all the great advice here.

He's disgusted by the poor woman who was amputated because of a hospital infection.
He read the "C Section in A Culture of Fear" article from last issue of Mothering and didn't like it... He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."

So, now I've copied a bunch of the stories from "Pushed" about women who didn't get what they had been promised, and la di da. He's gonna read this and at the end, I'm making up my mind and what will happen is up to me. I'd like him to be on board, but I'm too tired and I refuse to go into the L/D suite prepared for war.

I'm auditioning a few doulas, but I'm also thinking about actually getting a big huge, meathead-looking bodyguard to com in and be my companion too. 'Cause Hubby's already used up his one request! He can't say, "No male birth companion!"
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#74 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 05:46 AM
 
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My clincher is this. Tell him to find one study that says hospital birth is safer than home birth or ABC for a low risk woman. He can't. End of argument.
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#75 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 01:14 PM
 
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Actually ACOG supposedly did that study... though I'm pretty sure they threw in unplanned homebirths so that skewed the results obviously.
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#76 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 01:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by HeathenMommy View Post
If I can find an MD (not PhD) who delivered her baby at home or in a birthing center, he'll stop fighting me.
If this is what it takes to get him to stop controlling you, I can provide an OB who had her baby at a birthing center.. and I think her most recent was born at home.

If he's digging his reading, my husband liked Thinking Woman's Guide. I hope if the education fails you will put your foot down and birth the way you feel you need to. He needs to get over his biases... i don't think you need to compromise at all.
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#77 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 05:58 PM
 
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Actually ACOG supposedly did that study... though I'm pretty sure they threw in unplanned homebirths so that skewed the results obviously.
THe Pang study? I'm pretty sure they included miscarriages as homebirths as well. @@

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#78 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 06:34 PM
 
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He read the "C Section in A Culture of Fear" article from last issue of Mothering and didn't like it... He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."
FWIW, I was wheeled into my first section saying, "no - I don't want a c-section - I don't want one - no" over and over...until the anesthetic knocked me out.

I "consented" to my third c-section when the OB told me - at 41w, 4d and after two weeks of off-again-on-again prodromal labour - that if I didn't have the surgery, he'd drop me from care.

I hope you can get through to your dh, because he's living in a dream world.

Lisa, lucky mama of Kelly (3/93) ribboncesarean.gif, Emma (5/03) ribboncesarean.gif, Evan (7/05) ribboncesarean.gif, & Jenna (6/09) ribboncesarean.gif
Loving my amazing dh, James & forever missing ribbonpb.gif Aaron Ambrose ribboncesarean.gif (11/07) ribbonpb.gif

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#79 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 09:48 PM
 
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He just thinks that "Well you'll tell the doc what you want and that's exactly what will happen. Just say no cut, no section and no pit, and that's what you'll have."
If he's willing to do the reading, you might want to consider having him read Robbie Davis-Floyd's article Obstetric Training as a Rite of Passage and/or any of the articles here.

Keep us posted

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#80 of 86 Old 11-22-2007, 10:36 PM
 
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I'm sorry that this is turning out to be so hard for you . I agree that it's your body, your birth, and in the end you get to say how it goes. But I also think that you want your dh on your side, and if he is fearful, angry, etc., that has the potential for having a very negative affect on your birth (not to mention your relationship!).

I've skimmed through most of the posts, and I have something to say that I don't think has been mentioned ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeathenMommy View Post
However I showed him the trailer and he FREAKED THE ^@## OUT about me looking at reactionary and inflammatory stuff that "doesn't even apply to you!" So I don't know how openminded this one can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixiepunk View Post
well, my opinion has seriously changed since reading your updates. if he's not going to listen to the rational, statistical proof he asked for, then it's a whole different ball game.
It sounds like your dh is not interested in hearing the research, seeing the studies, or frankly, considering anything that might change his mind. I want to share a story about my dh that might be relevant.

I'm 35 years old and 16 weeks pregnant. My first birth was in a hospital-based birth center. This time I want a homebirth, and I don't want to do any testing, ultrasounds, doppler, etc. DH was totally on board with the homebirth, but not so keen on the no testing. He brought it up to me, told me he didn't want a baby with Down Syndrome, I was 35 and "high risk", etc. I was determined not to do the testing, but I didn't put my foot down initially. I told him he had a right to his fears, and asked him to do the research to find out a) what was the statistical risk for DS at my age, b) what were the risks of the tests, and c) what was the accuracy of the tests. Once he came back with this data, we would discuss it and make a decision. I was 99% certain the data would support my choice, just as you can be certain that the research supports your choice to birth at home or at a birth center. Well, days passed and dh didn't lift a finger to do the research (although he did spend hours playing computer games . In the meantime, I passed on bits and pieces of info I picked up here at MDC, which he would argue about, telling me I couldn't decide not to have a test based just on "X". We started bickering, and had some pretty ugly moments. And yet, he still didn't do any research. After days of this I finally got sick of waiting, and did the research myself. I presented the results to him, told him there was nothing there that changed my mind, and I wasn't going to do the testing. Period. He was not thrilled, but he didn't have any evidence that refuted my choice.

Okay, fine. I "won". But something else I realized during this process was that I don't think dh even really cared about the testing. He thought he did, and he thought he was afraid of having a child with DS, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't about that at all. So what was it about? I think dh has a lot of fears about this pregnancy, but he doesn't think they're "allowable" or "acceptable", so he hides them (maybe even from himself). I had to do a bit of mind-reading, but I'm guessing he's afraid of having another child and how it will change our lives. He's afraid of having a newborn again, and how fricking tired we'll be. We're just getting to the point of having some time for our own interests and pursuits again (dd is going on 2.5), and now we'll be going back to square one. Maybe he's afraid of how the pg will affect me. Or he's afraid I'll die during birth (independent of where I'm birthing -- I think this is actually a very common fear that men have, even if they support things such as homebirth, UC, etc.). Who knows what else, but I think he has a lot of fears ... very normal and understandable fears (heck, I have a lot of those fears myself ). But for whatever reason, he does not believe they're acceptable. He doesn't think he has the right to those fears. He doesn't think he can share them with me. Perhaps, he has deemed them so unacceptable that he has pushed them out of his conscious mind. But the fear is still there. So he had to find an "acceptable" way to get it out. He happened to settle on "you're 35 and high risk for DS!!!!!" although he just as easily could have chosen homebirth, etc.

The fact that your dh is being so very irrational about all of this, refusing to listen to the research, calling things "reactionary" and "inflammatory" (he hasn't even seen the movie , and in general just refusing to participate in a reasoned, researched discussion, makes me wonder if the same thing is going on with him. He has fear (or fears), and has decided to funnel all of them into this one place (probably unconsciously). It's his way of trying to manage the fear(s) and keep from feeling completely overwhelmed by them.

It doesn't mean it's your job to "fix" the situation, or even to necessarily help him with his fears (I think a lot of the time, this isn't even possible because they won't even admit the fears to themselves). I opened a discussion with dh, asked if he had any fears about the pg/birth/new baby, mentioned the ones that I had, and he still adamantly maintained that he had no fears and all was well (someone very wisely pointed out to me that he probably thinks he needs to "care for me" and "protect me" and denies his own fears in a dysfunctional attempt to do this). But, it might still be helpful for you if you understand the underlying situation. It's insanely frustrating to feel like you're beating your head on a brick wall and dealing with someone who is totally irrational for absolutely no reason -- that you can figure out anyway! If he's doing what I'm suggesting, then it at least gives an explanation for his behavior, why he's being so irrational, etc. It might also mean that the answer isn't presenting him with the data, or compiling a case worthy of the Supreme Court to defend your position. Because none of it will matter .

I don't know if this is what is going on, but I thought I would mention my experience on the off chance it would be helpful. If this is the case, I don't know what the solution is. In my case, dh was willing to fold in the face of my evidence, even though he wasn't happy about it (another clue that it really didn't have anything to do with what we were arguing about -- if the research supports my position, then he should be convinced and happy that we're making the right choice!). But I'm very strong willed and he isn't, so he just let me have my way, and thankfully has not seemed bitter or resentful. I don't know what will happen in your case, but maybe understanding what is driving your dh will help you come up with a better way to resolve the situation.

Best of luck and lots of s. Oh, and I've heard that The Business of Being Born will be available through Netflix at some point, although on the Netflix site it says "release date is unknown; availability is not guaranteed."

Mama to M (7/05) and S (5/08) my surprise !!!
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#81 of 86 Old 11-24-2007, 11:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So next week Hubby and I are supposed to sit down with the OB we've agreed to use so far... I'm not expecting that she won't feed us a line of hospital approved pap... (can I say pap?)

I'll update once there's anything more to add.

But in the meantime, are there any other message boards with similar topics that you frequent? I'm wondering if there are other similar perspectives out there.
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#82 of 86 Old 11-26-2007, 03:25 PM
 
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I can understand how conflicting this could be. DH is opposed to a home birth but is open to a birthing center. He was nervous about waterbirth until I did a ton of research.

I'm sure that his concern is over loosing you and/or baby. I agree with the approach that more education on his part is warranted. The last birth that he was attached to had "complications" with a result of the cesearian. He equates this scarry birth thing (for him - you are uncomfortable and he wants to protect you) with an emergency procedure. Sounds like he's a good guy who is terribly mis-informed.

Let us know what the result is.
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#83 of 86 Old 11-26-2007, 06:22 PM
 
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I frimly believe that your dh should at least go with you to interview at a birth center and ask questions. Without this compromise, he is really invalidating your concerns and your hopes for this birth. I think that men look at birth in a very black and white way (the medical model is based on a linear, male-oriented view of the body) -

If, after the interview, he still feels iffy perhaps reading some information will help.

If he doesn't at least do some work on his own, I'd say that it's not as important to him as it is to you and it's your decision. With my ex, if he disagreed with something in relation to parenting, we both brought our statistics and information to the table to discuss. Without him doing any homework, it's totally insulting to your views.
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#84 of 86 Old 11-26-2007, 06:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justthatgirl View Post
That's exactly what I did. In fact, I told dh, "If I have to birth this baby in the woods by myself, so be it." I would not set foot in a hospital for birth again. Dh could join me in my homebirth or not, but it was going to be MY way, not his.
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I just want to say, this has been my fantasy birth since before I conceived the first time. I'm looking forward to it, finally.
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#85 of 86 Old 11-26-2007, 06:52 PM
 
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Okay, he may have helped in making this baby when it comes down to, your body is the one that is carrying it and you are the one that is going to birth this child, therefor, you put YOUR foot down and explain to him why you want this and that it is ultimately your decision.

~*Have more than you show, speak less than you know*~

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#86 of 86 Old 11-27-2007, 12:11 PM
 
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I agree that you should at least have an interview at the birth center with him so he can ask questions. You already know that you don't want to do this at the hospital, and it seems you've made up your mind that you do want to go to the birth center. This is your body and health that is at stake here, not just the baby's. I regret the choices I made at my first birth so much, and resented myself for my decisions and my caving under pressure, and resented those that pushed me and scared me into making those deicisions. I would hate for you to come away from this feeling the same. Relationships are indeed about compromise, but when it is such an important thing that affects you so much more than him you may need to put yourself first.
Good luck at the OB, but like you said, he/she's probably just gonna feed you a line of BS anyways, and your hubby will be all gung ho about it.
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