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Old 01-27-2008, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've never known such strength, and I consider the hospital you're in lucky to have you there
I'll say it again... 4 planets in Taurus, and I'm not sure if it's a blessing or a curse.

The thing about a teaching hospital, (and previously planning a homebirth with CPM's) is that I see A LOT of different docs... Probably three different ones each day... some I've seen only once, some a few times... a couple of them I am CURSED with. I have to "explain" myself almost each and every time. I do a LOT of explaining things from my point of view...
"WHY are you refusing XYZ?"
"WHY won't you be induced at 34 weeks?"
"WHY won't you agree to an NST, they are NOTHING really."
"WHY won't you take this drug, that therapy, this advice?"
I get a LOT of "well, our research has shown" 's... a LOT of those. :
and "You REALIZE that (fill in EVERY worst case scenario here) can happen?"

I won't say it's EASY... but so far, it's been worth it?
I'd like to say that happy ending or no happy ending, it will have been worth it, but I don't know what it will be like once all of this is said and done. I know it's hard... I also know what feels "right". Now just because it feels "right" though, doesn't mean I'm guaranteed a "happy ending". All I am guaranteed is that I am retaining my own power. I've made my own choices, and so far, they have kept me sane. No one here can guarantee me anything, so all I can do is do it MY way, the best way I can.

I've been told things like: "well, we don't agree, but we aren't going to take you to court."
and:
"you are quite the troublemaker."
and:
"well, women did it that way for a long time before we started doing it this way. it wouldn't surprise me to see it return to that eventually."

The most recent perinatologist that I saw is one I saw 10 years ago for a few of my 2nd trimester losses, and he did my D&C's... He talked to me for a while today and then asked me some questions and then felt my belly and said to me, "well, you seem fine to me!" and left.

One of my "curses" docs, a young one, has tried to get me to do EVERYTHING:
internal exams at the drop of a hat, daily NST's, HEAVY medications instead of tylenol for a simple headache, induction induction INDUCTION!!!(every day since i hit 34 weeks) she refused me a heating pad for my backache, I can't even remember what all it has been with her, and MOST recently... as of 30 minutes ago and a LONG conversation with her about "WHY won't you be induced?" and "well, will you READ our research?" (like I haven't read a TON of research) She asked my WHY oh WHY won't you be induced? I proceeded to tell her that if everything is going well, and my baby doesn't want to be born at 34 weeks, who am I to FORCE her out with a drug like pitocin? She's obviously not ready. She's also not in danger, I don't believe. WHY would I want to do that to me, to her, to OUR birth? I told her of my fears of pitocin, my fears of that leading to epidural, and THAT leading to an un-neccessarian... You know what she says to me?
"well, we could use OTHER drugs besides pitocin.... we could use CYTOTEC."
I told her that cytotec was the LAST thing I was going to be putting into my body at this stage in the game. I actually laughed when she said "cytotec".
Now mind you, she has NEVER at any point been a b!3*h to me, or rude, but she has most certainly been... persistant.
She wanted to know why I am staying in the hospital then, if I refuse any and all medical treatment... I told her:
"I live an hour away from the hospital in a VERY rural area (no neighbors for a couple of miles). I spend 10-12 hrs. a day HOME ALONE. IF something were to happen, I do not feel comfortable at this stage (and especially not from 31 weeks) to be in that situation and have a fast or problematic birth. I wanted to be close enough to a NICU that I KNEW my baby would get the best care possible, if she chose to come early and needed the help. And that at 36 weeks, the fear of potentially delivering fast and/or alone doesn't nearly frighten me as much, because then the chance of my baby having "trouble" (respiratory distress) drops to 2%.
I think it surprised her that I WAS in fact, here for LOGICAL SAFETY REASONS. She doesn't realize that my refusal of most things medical are ALSO for reasons of SAFETY... Because to her, INTERVENTION=SAFEST. To me, it's just not that simple.
No, most people would have caved to SOMETHING at this point... am i a fool? time will tell... i am NOT a research paper tho, this i know... I'm not a statistic, I am not another number.
I'm all for "modern medicine" and I find it absolutely fascinating the things we can do and the people we can save... when it is NECESSARY. I am NOT for "modern medicine" JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE IT. I am not for Medicine in the name of $$$$$$$$$$$$ NO treatment is too expensive if you need it, and NO treatment can be GIVEN to me just because it's free or "protocol". EVERY case should be looked at as it's own... most women go into labor when they have pPROM within 4 days... 96% of them. I'm not one of them. MOST women will "let them" induce them when they reach 34 weeks... I'm not MOST women. How many, I mean REALLY how many women do they "research" that are going a more natural route? My guess is NONE OF THEM. My guess is that of the women that DO have really bad outcomes (maternal or fetal death after pPROM that do not get induced at 34 weeks) have some other factors involved... I DON'T KNOW. I might be one of those women someday... I DON'T KNOW.
I do know that they see the medical side of it ALWAYS... they have probably NEVER seen the natural approach in their studies and research... and I do mean NEVER... they don't hear about the women who stay home and deliver at term JUST FINE. (even at 32/33/34/35/36 weeks) They don't SEE women refuse tests. They don't SEE women refuse "doctors recommendations". They see WORST CASE SCENARIOS from frightened women who eventually cave.
I refuse to look that hard to find "WHAT'S WRONG?"... I'd rather, instead, focus on "WHAT'S RIGHT?"
I am not here to "change their opinion" of natural pregnancy and birth. I don't think that "ONE LUCKY CASE" is going to make them see anything differently. I am, however, pretty sure, that if it turns out "bad" that it will go down as one of their statistics to support their interventions. Which is a shame. They do and always will rely on "research" and "statistics" to base their decisions on... I think it will be a cold day in hell before they integrate the magick of nature with the useful technology they have access to. I'm not here to promote anything or sway anyone. I'm here for my baby's safety. IF and I do say IF I make it to 36 weeks. I'm going home...

UNLESS there is some feeling or reason I feel I should not.

Ok, that was a little wordy, but yeah... that's what I think... and no it's not easy.

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Old 01-27-2008, 11:31 PM
 
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Julie I just gave birth to my sixth child a week ago, an unplanned assisted hospital birth due to malpresentation (resolved, and she was born about a minute after we got to the hosp.)

I don't think they had EVER seen anyone like me there. We refused EVERYTHING and left "AMA" about 4 hours after she was born. I roll my eyes because of course we planned to never be there at all!

Here's a brief version of it: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=833892

You keep your power of NO, mama. You can do it!
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Old 01-27-2008, 11:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by salt_phoenix View Post
"well, will you READ our research?" (like I haven't read a TON of research)
Well, I'm weird, but I'd say "Sure! Bring it to me." Then I'd read it, and explain why it's not applicable, or inconclusive, or poorly controlled, or whatever. (I'd also poke around Google Scholar for research that supports my course of action.)

The truth is, doctors don't usually know how to interpret research. This is not something they really spend time on in school. I think it's one of the reasons modern medical care is floundering so badly... we've always trained doctors by trying to pack into their brains EVERYTHING we can think of about the human body and its pathology, but these days "what we know" changes so rapidly that the curriculum can't even keep up, much less the doctors in the field. We'd benefit greatly by spending less time teaching "This condition -> that treatment" and instead, teaching research skills, critical thinking and interpretation, etc.

Sorry to just jump in with that ;-) been following your story, and I'm glad they're not threatening legal action etc. on you! Good luck, mama!
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:00 AM
 
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whew you are really hanging in there and teaching alot too---

when DH was in the hospital droves of students were swamping me-- after about the 5th time I repeated the story and info- I said who are you and why am I repeating this to you? is there no continuity of care here? and the traffic really slowed down after that-- some are just out fishing for experience, they need to do any and all of the procedures and so are going to be asking not so much for your and yours but to get that learning opportunity --- so good and bad you have some docs that keep coming back because you do want someone who keeps track from day to day

so how are you feeling? how has the food worked out?

take care
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so how are you feeling? how has the food worked out?
I feel just great & the food is good, (i get choices and can ask for specifics) it's just getting somewhat repetitive. I have the occasional outside meal brought in, and this is such a huge complex I am in, we can take one of the tunnels to one of the other hospitals with other food.

Different drummer dancing with 3 kids in 3 decades.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here's a brief version of it: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=833892
You keep your power of NO, mama. You can do it!
OH! I read that story a day or so ago! WAY TO GO!!!
It IS rather unnerving for them, I think. They honestly believe I haven't thought about the "what if's"... 'til we have a convo... they still don't like it, but at least they realize I HAVE given consideration to the "possibilities".

Speaking of malpresentation: After all this bloody show and contrations without active labor... I've wondered myself if there is "something" holding her up... I've alternated between "she just needs more time, and in the MEANTIME my body is getting SO READY."
and
"maybe she needs more re-arranging." Maybe her head is engaged, but she's got her arms out to the sides like a tantrum throwing toddler attempting to hold itself in a doorway while you drag them away.
She's DEFINITELY head down, but past that...
I honestly don't know what is holding her in at this point.
I keep reminding myself that she's "only" 34.5 weeks... even tho my BODY is pretty ready to toss her out, she's just not ready to leave.

thanks mamas for your support in my unconventional ways

Different drummer dancing with 3 kids in 3 decades.
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:59 AM
 
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Holy cannoli. Cytotec? Honestly....

Trust your heart. And go get a good trashy novel, dive in, and escape.

And know that we all are sending you virtual hugs.

Perpetually exhausted single mother by choice to one little girl (2/06)
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:30 AM
 
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Well, I'm weird, but I'd say "Sure! Bring it to me." Then I'd read it, and explain why it's not applicable, or inconclusive, or poorly controlled, or whatever. (I'd also poke around Google Scholar for research that supports my course of action.)
I'd totally do the same thing...here's to being a total nerd!

Julie, you are right that you won't be changing their minds on anything but...maybe it will be a bit easier for the next natural-birthing mama they encounter. Maybe next time they encounter someone who doesn't want their baby drug out of them they'll remember that crazy mama and how well it worked out for her

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Old 01-28-2008, 01:47 AM
 
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I just love your explanation of what the docs have been putting you through, gives me a much better idea of what in reality each day you go through. I'd love to hear more...when ever you have time.
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Old 01-28-2008, 10:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, today is the day. I'm sitting in L&D... still pretty mellow, but I'm here.

I have JUST NOW been told I am GBS+ after being tested 3.5 weeks ago and thinking the entire time I've been here that I was clear.

I have refused abx so far, any advice or experience is appreciated!!! If I'm not able (I'm still in good shape and just killing time atm) then I'll have dh get on and see some answers.

I've been told I can't eat anything but clear fluids.
dh went and got me a sandwich.

wish me luck mamas... i told dh that if they pissed me off too bad, i'd go deliver in the car in the parking lot and then rush the baby up if she needed help. (let's hope it doesn't come to that )

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Old 01-28-2008, 10:43 AM
 
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Sending ELV : your way mama. I will pray she comes out screaming and you are home in a day or 2.

I would think that after all this time with broken water they would have at least mentioned the GBS+ : I have heard of them keeping a baby in observatioon for days and giving it abx if the mama was gbs+ and didnt get the abx. I would ask them what their policy is and if that is the case then I would personally take the abx instead of having them pumped into your dd.

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 12:40 PM
 
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Didn't they already pump you full of antibiotics when you were admitted? What the H is going on with these people?

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Old 01-28-2008, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Didn't they already pump you full of antibiotics when you were admitted?
yeah, DIFFERENT ones. : but not the one they want to give for the GBS+ for that, they wanna give pennicillin... i'm not severly allergic, but i do break out and itch... i'm afraid that one of these days, it's not going to be that simple...

seems they'd rather us get some sort of super bug infection, instead of risk the unlikely chance that the baby will actually get sick.
From what I understand, the baby will be worse off FOR getting the abx, instead of the wait and see approach and THEN treat...
confirm/deny

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Old 01-28-2008, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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my contractions are 6-10 mins apart, and as long as I'm upright, they are downright pleasant... the minute I lay down to try to rest... OUCH!!! They easily become a 5 or 6 on the owie scale.
I guess I'll sit up... those ones are a 2.
I sure could use a nap... I have been up since midnight. It's almost 8am here.

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Old 01-28-2008, 01:02 PM
 
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i'm not severly allergic, but i do break out and itch
No way would I get the penicilin then, if it makes you itch then you are allergic and as such each time you are exposed you risk having a major anaphalactic reaction. And from here on out make sure that you put down on any medical paper work that you are penicilin allergic. It is not worth the risk you could react and die in minutes literally.

Ok enough scaring you : I am going to guess that you will have her at 2pm my time and she will weigh a hefty 5pds 2oz

I am assuming you are still refusing vaginal exams??

 
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:03 PM
 
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You are so super awesome Julie, such a strong woman!!! I'll be thinking about you today and hope everything goes smoothly.

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Old 01-28-2008, 01:25 PM
 
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I have several links to alternatives to abx for GBS here.

Perhaps you could see if they'd be willing to do the vaginal wash (basically you squirt yourself with chlorhexidine, kind of like you do with a peri bottle after the baby's born).
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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Happy birthing day.

Helen mum to five and mistress of mess and mayhem, making merry and mischief til the sun goes down.
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:38 PM
 
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Big hugs mama! We recommend our clients do the Hibiclens wash if they don't want to do abx. I don't know about doing it since your water is broken though..... Was the last test done 3.5 wks ago? You could request another one. You can refuse the abx and just request added observation and maybe a blood test on the baby to rule out elevated white blood cell counts?

Best wishes for a beautiful, peaceful labor and birth for you. You are so strong and such an inspiration!
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Old 01-28-2008, 01:43 PM
 
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I've made my own choices, and so far, they have kept me sane. No one here can guarantee me anything, so all I can do is do it MY way, the best way I can.
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Best wishes and happy birthing!!! Can't wait to hear all about it

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Old 01-28-2008, 02:31 PM
 
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Happy and safe Birthing, Julie!
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:34 PM
 
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Good luck!!!

Laura wife to Chris proud mommy to our lil monkey (c-section 6-10-06), our other lil monkey (HBAC 3-08-09) Our next and last son (due by HBAC mid July 2011) and our angel (10-03-04). My middle son has many severe food allergies.

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Old 01-28-2008, 02:39 PM
 
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Julie - I'm so excited & can't wait to meet this lo

As far as GBS, with my 1st 2 babies I delivered with a CNM in a hospital & that didn't even test for GBS b/c the risk of baby contracting it is so low. There was no problem with an unknown GBS status & early discharge (this was in the very conservative state of AL.) Fastforward to my 4th pg & I transferred from a hb (in another state) with a GBS unknown (I refused the test) & they would NOT let me leave early b/c they had to "monitor" the baby for signs. I fought & they threatened CPS so in the end I stayed the d**n 48 hrs. What are your plans as far as going home if this lo comes out needing no special care what so ever? If it is likely you might head home before the 48 hrs I would find out their policy on GBS + babes. (I know there is something else they can give other than penicilin but not sure what it is.) If you think with her being an early bird that you will stay at least the 48 hrs I would forgo the meds. GL!!!!!
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Old 01-28-2008, 02:41 PM
 
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I have JUST NOW been told I am GBS+ after being tested 3.5 weeks ago and thinking the entire time I've been here that I was clear.

I have refused abx so far, any advice or experience is appreciated!!! If I'm not able (I'm still in good shape and just killing time atm) then I'll have dh get on and see some answers.
GBS is a much bigger risk to preemies (prior to 37 weeks gestation) than to full-term babies. Although I'm refusing the culture and the antibiotics in general, if I were sitting in your place, I'd get them. Transmission rates are a bit higher (though it's unclear from the CDC's data just how much higher), but the death rate from early-onset GBS for preemies is 22.9% instead of the overall 6.5%.

But, I'm not allergic to penicillin, and you ARE, so you'd need to go with an alternative treatment... there are other antibiotics that are effective against most strains of GBS. See if they still have your culture and can test it for suceptibility really quick? Otherwise, ask them what the next-best alternate is. Also find out if the hibiclens wash is available there (or get your DH to sneak some in? Can get it at the drugstore.)
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:34 PM
 
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As far as GPS+ goes I think you have to do the natural remedies for that for about a week or so before you give birth. I can't believe they didn't tell you! That's terrible. I don't know... maybe some mamas will come on here who have some fast remedies.

I did want to tell you that all those contractions you had do in fact get their lungs ready early! Make sure they do not cut that cord unless they absolutely have to. I know you know this but I have attended too many hospital births where they found any excuse they could to cut it. Babies can be unwound from MOST cords so tell them you want a good cord unwinder or something. Your baby deserves a chance to try and breath on her own and as long as she is getting oxygen from the cord they need to leave her and you be. They'll also make up any excuse to bring her to the warmer. Make sure you're naked and tell them to have lots of blankets on hand to throw over her right away. I also just wanted to reassure you that in general girls mature faster than boys and she seems like a real go getter so I'm thinking she's going to do just fine.

I hope you have a beautiful birth and I can't wait to hear the good news!
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Old 01-28-2008, 03:37 PM
 
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I did find this on another thread about GBS, however I didn't do the research or see any links to studies............

There was a great article in Mothering Mag:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/pr...n/group-b.html

"There are three significant factors that place a woman at increased risk of delivering an infant who becomes ill from GBS: fever during labor, her water breaking 18 hours or more before delivery (prolonged rupture of membranes, or PROM), and/or labor or broken water before 37 weeks gestation.
. . .
In the absence of the first three risk factors (fever during labor, PROM, or labor before 37 weeks), the risk of a newborn developing GBS infection is very small."

GL in your decision & let us know how you are doing.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:28 PM
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Oh good luck mama!! I'll be keeping you and the baby in my thoughts. I'm looking forward to an update!

Kara, single mom of 4 girls (5, 8, 16 and 19) crochetsmilie.gif
Kids have strokes too! superhero.gif 

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Old 01-28-2008, 06:11 PM
 
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Waiting rather impatiently to hear. Good Luck!!

Mommy to THREE sweet boys & ONE sweet girl + a newb due in February!  I need a nap. 
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:18 PM
 
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Happy Birthing Day!
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Old 01-28-2008, 06:59 PM
 
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Hi Mama, I've been following your story (don't know why I haven't posted before, but I was thinking about you!). You are so strong. It's hard to listen to that inner voice sometimes with the constant blare of opinions and scary "facts" and "research." I can relate to you but not because I've been in your exact situation, but because of my son. He was my first experience dealing with hospitals and all that go along with it and I've definetly gained a voice I never thought I had and it's made me stronger. We've refused things they want to do to him and while they accept it, they are having a hard time respecting it. But like you said, you are not a research paper. My son is followed by a team at Stanford and I can relate to you seeing many different people - like doctors. I think it's scary to see so many people - it's like that game telephone, where at the end the last person always ends up with a completely different message than the first person started with. It's basically up to you (or in our case, us) to keep everything straight. In the end, all their research and facts might give insight to your situation, it's still not your exact situation. Every person is different. Every situation is different. You've got to go with what feels right (obviously) - it's what we've done and it's hard sometimes to know you're doing the right thing.

Anyway, that was long. Just wanted you to know that I'm thinking about you and think you are a strong, smart woman. Happy Birthing Day!
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