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#31 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 01:45 PM
 
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Does you husband have a private call room at the hospital? That would make it super close to the emergency services you want nearby but without really being on their turf.
Melinda
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#32 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 02:00 PM
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i'm curious if we can even call being in a hospital to give birth an aspect of unassisted birth, simply because there are medical people there, and an expectation to utilize their services. . .

as opposed to an UC where there is no expectation to need medical services, and no need/desire to have them in "close proximity."
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#33 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 02:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
Considering that a hospital is an institution where sick and injured people go to receive medical treatment, one would wonder why you would go there if you don't want them to do anything for you.
Yeah this. I guess it is possible, but it would be a major PITA that I personally would rather not deal with if a UC were my goal.

Even if you had no meds, monitoring and caught your own baby, they are still going to have to intervene in some way, even if it is merely checking your vital signs. I'm not sure what amount you are willing to put up with. True, no one can force anything on you, but I can assure they are not going to just let you chill in the room, do your thing and just call them when you decide something is amiss.

I guess it just depends on your definition of UC. If you mean NO HANDS ON AT ALL, not even intermittent monitoring or vital sign checks or even a nurse in the room during the birth (not interfereing, but just standing aside), then it might be kind of hard for you. That is not to say you can't have a very low intervention birth where your wishes are respected, it does happen.
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#34 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
i'm curious if we can even call being in a hospital to give birth an aspect of unassisted birth, simply because there are medical people there, and an expectation to utilize their services. . .

as opposed to an UC where there is no expectation to need medical services, and no need/desire to have them in "close proximity."
:

I really don't see it as even in the same league. Perhaps at a hotel close to a hospital or in an RV in the parking lot- but IN a hospital? Just doesn't compute.

You don't have any of the peace and privacy I associate with UC.

-Angela
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#35 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 02:38 PM
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what about calling an ambulance *if* something comes up that you can't deal with? that's what they're there for.
g.

Canadian mama to A (C/S May 2004) and R (induced VBAC Dec 2007) expecting #3 in July.  Currently obsessing over permaculture, photography and beekeeping.

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#36 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 03:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Astrogirl View Post
We've talked about this before and you conceded that YOU have never been in a nice hospital. They do exist. The first place i gave birth was just as you (and everyone else) said. Then 2nd place was probably a whole lot cleaner than our house and actually more private and quieter as well.
I hate to say it being that I work in a hospital, but I have to agree with alegna... hospitals, no matter how "clean" they appear to be are nasty, dirty places. They have all kinds of icky germs in them, and no matter how well housekeeping cleans them, they are still dirty. They have done all kinds of studies on culturing different parts of the rooms and they grow all kinds of icky stuff. Even if it is a "nice" hospital (which I agree do exist), it is still dirty.

That said, I do like to think that maternity units tend to be slightly cleaner than your average unit, just because of the nature of the patients there. While they can still have icky diseases, you have alot less of the really icky stuff (MRSA, CDIFF, VRE, etc) there...
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#37 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow, thanks for all of the thoughts and ideas. Sorry this started a debate as to the definition of UC--that wasn't my intent, but I must say it's been helpful to hear all of these different ideas and angles!!

I may not know where I want to be yet, but at least now I have many more places to explore!!

Thanks again,
Anna
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#38 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 03:08 PM
 
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I think it's highly unlikely that you get a uc in a hospital. Making that happen by refusing to let anyone in seems like it would create an agitated birthing environment which would not be conducive to a peaceful or safe birth. Not safe b/c your emotional/mental state could inhibit your body from functioning optimally and invite unnecessary interventions, yk? It would be very stressful for me to be in a room w/people knocking on the door trying to come in while my husband dealt with them instead of being a birthing partner to me.
: You'd have all the negatives of a hospital and probably hurt the quality of the emergency care you got if you needed it.
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#39 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 03:49 PM
 
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I also wanted to chime in with the fact that if your husband doesn't have privlidges at that hospital, it won't matter even if he IS a medical doctor. The hospital won't care.

DH may be willing to be the bulldog, however depending on the hospital they may remove him. Nurses are your biggest problem in a hospital birth situation. They like things done THEIR way, regardless of what the paitent wants, and they are usually the first to admit it. I have had nurses in 3 states tell me they don't care what I want, they do their job IN SPITE of me. SO- you need to be your own advocate. I love the "Do not sign the total consent forms." but you then need to know the laws in your state because the hospital staff may NOT treat you, or atleast threaten not to.

You also would need, if you want a UC in a hospital room, to talk to the hospital administration and get prior authorization, and they would require you to sign off all legal rights in case something were to go wrong. I honestly don't think they would allow your request. They don't even allow for more simple modifications in other situations.

You are still healing mentally/emotionally from a bad delivery the first time. You need to heal from that, and then deal with this delivery. Write down what it is that you DON'T want from your last delivery. Write your DREAM birth story for this baby. Then look at what is avalible, freestanding BC- hospital- homebirth- midwife- doctor- doula you have LOT'S of options. IMO reading from your 1st post you should look into a BC and maybe a doula to deal with the "medical" community.

IMHO also please don't ask your DH to be the bull dog watchman, allow him to be the loving husband and father and let him enjoy your birth as well! Happy birthing to you, however you decide to birth!

Hypnobirthing could also be awesome!

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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#40 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 04:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GooeyRN View Post
I didn't want hospital staff trying to intervene. You may not like my idea, but its what I did. I walked around the hospital all day while in labor without checking in to L&D or even letting my midwife know I was in labor. I went waiting room to waiting room watching TV and reading magazines. I ate in the cafe or cafeteria when I was hungry, with no one restricting me. When I hit transition I noticed a few hospital workers giving me the hairy eye ball. When I hit transition I called the midwife to let them know I was on my way to the hospital. (I wasn't happy about this, I didn't think I was in transition, I thought I had a few hours, but my dh thankfully knew better) I showed up to the unit ready to push. It worked great! No time for an IV, or anything. I wish I would have showed up 10 minutes earlier so I could have birthed in a birthing tub. I didn't leave any time to fill the tub. I had to push as soon as I got the room practically. I pushed the baby out in 15 minutes and had no interventions. It worked great!!!!!
Now that is a terrific way to get the emergency services of a hospital without having to fight to be left alone. If being in a hospital will make you feel more secure, that would definitely be the way to go.
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#41 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 05:25 PM
 
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Rational or not, my biggest fears are something happening in that 1st hour after birth, either to me (pph) or baby (unable to revive).
Most homebirth midwives carry everything for PPH that you can get in a hospital and are trained in neonatal resuscitation. Those are things you should simply ask the homebirth midwife about, and see if her answers are satisfactory. The main thing a homebirth midwife couldn't do for PPH is a hysterectomy, but she can do pretty much everything else you can do in a hospital, including rapid transfer for that hyster if you need it.

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DH has other concerns based on scary things he sees at work, like amniotic fluid embolism.
Well, AFE is essentially untreatable, so you're quite likely to die no matter where you are if you experience it. If it's recognized very quickly (which is rare, since it's a diagnosis of exclusion and is generally only confirmed by autopsy), and you're in labor (as opposed to post-partum) and get a crash c/s, the baby might live. I believe there's a potential increase in risk factors for AFE if you birth in a hospital (I think - can't remember for certain - that pitocin during labor increases risk of AFE). It's such a teeny, tiny risk and such a small proportion of births that I'm not worried about AFE. The fact that it's extremely unusual coupled with the the fact that I'm likely to die no matter where I am kind of makes it a moot point for me WRT homebirth. Bottom line, there are still dangers inherent to being pregnant and giving birth. They might not be as dangerous as driving a car to work every day, but there are still risks and the possibility of death. There's also no evidence that being in the hospital, as opposed to being at home, decreases a low-risk woman/baby's risk of death.

If these sorts of things (AFE, PPH, etc.) are really strong fears for you and your dh and research has not been able to put them in perspective to a degree that you're comfortable with, then it sounds like the hospital is the most comfortable place for you to birth and that may be where you want to be. You might be able to get special treatment if your dh is on staff at that hospital. I would assume that having a UC in the hospital is impossible, though (obviously in extremely unusual/lucky circumstances it can happen, but I wouldn't attempt one thinking it would happen - even when it does happen, it's not that the birth was unattended or uninterfered with - just that the doctor/nurse didn't make it in the room in time to catch).
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#42 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 06:30 PM
 
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Except for that little thing called battery. If you decline a procedure, intervention, etc they can not perform it. To do so without consent is battery.
You must live in one of those "good" states -- where people still have rights, even pregnant people. Don't try that attitude in Texas, Mississippi, or Florida -- or you might be introduced to another legal term -- "court order" -- and an even more exciting one "removal of parental rights".
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#43 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 06:54 PM
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i would go totally stir crazy hanging around in a hospital for my labor. i'd rather just do my own thing at home. comfy.
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#44 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 07:10 PM
 
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i would go totally stir crazy hanging around in a hospital for my labor. i'd rather just do my own thing at home. comfy.
:

I'm happy that GooeyRN found a middle ground she was comfortable with, and I do advise doula clients to wait quite a bit before heading to the hospital...but truly, in my opinion, I find the whole thing very odd.

(and this digresses from anything related to UC, as I am discussing regular old hospital birth and midwife attended homebirth)

To me, the idea of having a midwife attended homebirth is a lot safer than showing up at the hospital to push. Unless you are checking hearttones yourself, there's no monitoring, there's no experienced attendant watching for signs that things have gone astray from normal. I guess I just don't get why people feel like it's "safer" to go to the hospital for the last hour. Things can go wrong at any point in labor, and the beauty of midwifery care is that they usually can catch it LONG before it's an emergency. I guess I just feel like if I was going to wander the halls until transition, I'd rather wander my own halls at home and then give birth there too.

I also think it's very, very telling about our society and sad when the best way to have a hospital birth is to spend as little time there as possible. Again...I agree with this practice, and I help people to do it, but I always find myself wondering why exactly people won't even consider homebirth when they really don't want to be in the hospital hardly at all!

Now, I understand that UC'ers don't feel like monitoring OR an attendant make a difference in safety, and I would agree for those truly espousing the UC mindset. I feel like that faith in the process and intuitive depth more than likely eliminates a lot of risk in and of itself. Unfortunately, I just don't have that faith or mindset, and probably never will because of the culture I've been raised in. Plus, I just don't have any desire to give birth with anything less than a posse. Just how I am.

For the OP, I agree with whoever posted about nailing down your specific fears. My first thoughts reading your last post mirrored Romana9's. I think it will be great for you to meet with the CPM and find out exactly how skilled they are in both detecting potential emergency situations (and thus getting you to the hospital when you need to) and treating a wide variety of birth emergencies.

Birth has risks, plain and simple, no matter who you are and where you do it. There's no such thing as a risk-free birth. That's what makes these decisions so hard. You have to look at each plate full of risks and benefits and see which one you want to pick.

mama to 3 girls: Abigail 2.12.05, Eliana 8.26.06, Willa 1.9.09
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#45 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 07:12 PM
 
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I think a UC and a hospital birth are mutually exclusive. I'm sure it's possible to have a good hospital birth- but by definition it would no longer be UC (unless you give birth in a hospital bathroom or something like that. But why would you want to?)

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18, and Jack, 12
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#46 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 07:33 PM
 
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This thread reminds me of little of a certain wedding dilemma I've heard about. Hopefully you'll forgive me for digressing...
So, many brides want to do pictures before the wedding because they don't want to keep guests waiting even longer between the reception and ceremony. However, there is the contrasting desire to have the groom not see the bride before the ceremony begins. Two contrasting desires, not unlike this situation.
Anyway, people sometimes think up crazy schemes, like having the guy wear a blindfold and take it off for pictures, but not see the bride. Some people make it work, sort of like birthin' in the parking lot in a rental RV.
But most people weigh the pros and cons, talk a million words, think of a thousand middle-grounds, and then make the decision, pictures before or after, birth at home or hospital, and leave behind the crazy attempts to meld things. A few people ride the middle and love it.

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#47 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 08:24 PM
 
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I gave birth to my 6th child in January. Her birth story is here:

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=833892

She was born 45 seconds after we got to L&D, and then we left AMA about 3-4 hours later.
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#48 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mumse View Post
You must live in one of those "good" states -- where people still have rights, even pregnant people. Don't try that attitude in Texas, Mississippi, or Florida -- or you might be introduced to another legal term -- "court order" -- and an even more exciting one "removal of parental rights".
Could you cite more than a few rare cases where an otherwise normal, healthy mom has had court ordered interventions during labor and removal of parental rights?

A few cases in a few states, isn't data, it's still anecdotal. It's still not the norm and it's certainly no reason to NOT stand up for your rights.

April :
Mom, Wife, Doula, CBE
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#49 of 55 Old 02-28-2008, 01:54 AM
 
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Being a doula and midwife and homebirther, I don't see how this can realisticly happen in the hospital, even given the knowledge that DH is a physician- expect by fluke or in a perfect world.
Finding the environment in which you feel safe and trusting has been mentioned. But, choosing your support "team" is important too. Will you do prenatal care and how will your care providers react to this UC hospital idea, or will they not know? Also, you'll have your DH to support you-- and nevermind the fact that you'd be "on their turf, their rules" the fact of the matter is that DH has not had a baby and he may not have anyone else to tell him that "This is normal, everything is wonderful, etc"when you're in the throws of labor and in the space you need to be in He may love you and want you to have a really positive experience. But, if it's just the two of you in the hospital room, he may fall into his element and be more quick to act medically. Especially knowing that his colleagues are out there wanting to "help". Lots of partners with such good intentions simply just don't want to see their mate be uncomfortable or in pain. And it would be so easy for him to allow for unwanted interventions. I really don't want to come off judgemntal or accuse your DH of possibly sabotaging your plan- just throwing some ideas out there.
Nerves of the partner are handled so differently at homebirths for a couple reasons. For the same reasons that a mother feels comfortable in her home for birthing-- you're in your own home, everything is familiar and effortless. Another reason is that if you have a midwife, she is smiling and saying how normal and beautifully things are going. We give the family alot of support and foster a very sacred, spiritual, private environment. Sometimes just a gentle smile eases the nerves- it shows that everything is OK.
At UC births, the partner generally knows how deeply and intuitively the birthing mother trusts this process and truly understands that she is making the best decision for her and their baby. In a sense, the partner really has to be submissive and surrender the birthing choices to the mother. If she trusts, then most of the time the partner will also.
I was so apalled that recently a dad complained that the mom was making so many of the decisions about the birth without his input like "she decided no c/sec,no pitocin, no IV, etc" As if she should've gotten his input...What?! That's her right and her responsibilty! Sorry to rant, I just get so steamed!!

Jessica- mom to four boys ,, midwife
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#50 of 55 Old 02-28-2008, 02:43 AM
 
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Since this thread is more about considering birth options than UC, I'm moving it to the main Birth and Beyond forum.
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#51 of 55 Old 02-28-2008, 11:55 AM
 
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MW-attended home or birth center birth sounds like it would be a nice in between for you. My mw will sit in another room if that's what I want but she can come if I want/need her. She brings all the emergency stuff and she would recommend transport if at any time it became needed.

I've witnessed far too many hospital births to think that UC is a feasible thing to plan for in that setting. Getting a no intervention birth is a pretty tricky feat as it is. Most hospitals simply aren't set up to support a truly natural birth.

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#52 of 55 Old 02-29-2008, 12:44 AM
 
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To me, the idea of having a midwife attended homebirth is a lot safer than showing up at the hospital to push.
My personal experience echoes this statement. I was ready to push at home (after 4 1/2 hours of labor), and I held Taylor inside for an hour (until we arrived at the hospital and was finally given permission to push).

My last-minute arrival caused all sorts of panic in the hospital staff. They couldn't find her heart tones, so this lead to very quick and forceful, directed pushing and an episiotomy.

The whole course of that last stage of labor was dictated by how far along I was and how the hospital interpretted that situation. Next time I'm staying home...
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#53 of 55 Old 02-29-2008, 01:14 AM
 
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Next time I'm staying home...
Exactly.

---feeling like an emu on acid---
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#54 of 55 Old 02-29-2008, 01:39 AM
 
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I had a UC in the hospital.....

I should've just stayed home.......but was scared of this baby ending up with dystocia like her big sister.....my brain knew better but my heart didn't.....

So, off we went.......had I known I was about 7cm in the car, I would've stayed home......

We got to the hospital......up to labor and delivery......in the room.......with dd1 and our doula behind us....

A nurse came in and I told her I was fine, just needed to sit down.....I felt the baby move and really preferred to not be hooked up to monitors and she said ok....asked who my MW was and I told her and she just happened to be there finishing up another delivery....

She came in to say howdy and I was sitting on the bed......

She told a joke and I laughed my butt off and a few mintues later baby arrived. Not a single nurse touched her. It all happened very fast and that's prolly why there was no medical intervention...no monitor hookups, no nurses coming back in.

Yes, my MW was there but she didn't do a thing until way AFTER dd was born. Our doula ended up reading a story to dd.......Dp rubbed my back.......I think my doula took a pic of me helping dd into the world (i'd have to look for it).......but I do have the one of her crowning and halfway out......no way would that have happened had there been nurses in there. Against policy......

It was fantastic....I felt like I was at home but my bed went up and down.....

A nurse did come in after dd was born to do the "tests" but we told her that we weren't doing certain ones and the rest could wait. Our MW weighed her after we had a bit of time to let her cord stop, let her nurse, deliver the placenta.......We all just sat around and chatted until everything just sorta happened on it's own.....

I was allowed to leave a few hours later but I chose to stay a night.....with just baby and I...I knew the night nurse and she remembered me from my first baby almost 4 years ago (a VERY medical birth....no section) so it was nice to chat with her.

I know that this is not the normal experience at a hospital...and I'm pretty sure it happened the way it did bc things happened so fast (we thought she was coming IN THE CAR)......and for that I am happy......

Not a single nurse touched me until after baby was born.....

So, I don't think you can plan a UC at a hospital (unless maybe you are in a VERY friendly mama hospital.....and the one I had dd at IS very mama centered) but it is possible......

My MW was just happy she could be there to visit with us. I do have a few pictures of her a bit after baby was born checking her out but this was while she was ON ME all snuggled complete with her cord......I even got to give her her first bath.......

It was an amazing experience.......

But IF there is a next time, I'm staying at home......

DD1's labor was 19 hours.
DD2's labor was just under 2.5 hours.......
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#55 of 55 Old 02-29-2008, 03:43 AM
 
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Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional;
they are placed there for the amusement of those who like to point them out.
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