UC in a hospital? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi all, newbie here.

Sorry if this is a crazy/annoying question, but I'd love to hear people's thoughts on a UC in a hospital. Is it possible or is it wishful thinking?

Background: this is baby#2, first experience was "traditional" hospital birth, lots of interventions, basically an experience I'd rather not have again. My fault, I was terrified of labor and delivery (I didn't even call it birth then) and wanted it to just be over. Lots more details, but that's the summary. This time I've decided that several days of horrible pain is better than the 4 months of pp healing, so I'm trying everything possible to have a natural birth. We're taking Bradley classes, I'm reading every book I can, I'd like to take a Birthing from Within class (LOVED the book!!!!), and exploring homebirth.

Our issues: DH is a physician and while he says he'll "support whatever decision" I don't know that either of us is comfortable being away from emergency services "just in case". I've read lots of studies and all the stats and I'm a chemist/engineer so I believe them, but our guts are afraid still I think.

Sooooooo...that's why I was wondering about UC in a hospital. DH is willing to pitbull and create a safe space for me, but basically I'm still at the point where I don't feel safe to birth in any space (except for my running joke that's almost not a joke that I'd like to labor at home, hop in the car as the baby's descending, drive to the hospital and have the baby in the back of the truck in the parking lot, wait an hour or so to make sure everyone's ok, then go back home, lol, but serious to).

Thoughts on all this?
Anna
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#2 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 02:18 PM
 
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you can attempt natural childbirth in a hospy, but no that's not uc.

y not try a hb?

Liz

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#3 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 02:53 PM
 
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It's POSSIBLE to have a UC in a hospital. I did.
HOWEVER... it was not planned and it was pure luck in timing that it happened at all.
I am a homebirther in every way and had 2 previous homebirths before my Third baby.
I ended up in the hospital with pPROM at 31 weeks and was on bedrest for a month before I went into labor. During labor, I had given up any idea of anything natural or wonderful about the birth, I even ended up asking for an epidural, SURE I was gonna end up with a section & exhausted from 3 days of prodromal labor...(thankfully it never happened) the only reason I had a UC was because the anesthesiologist that was to administer it sent EVERYONE out of the room, I got pushy and told the anesthesiologist "wait, i'm pushy!" She took her things and left, the only nurse in the room left to get the midwife. I lay back on the bed and me and dh delivered our own baby. I guided her out, and he grabbed her up. It was great that it happened that way, if I had to be in the hospy at all. It was absolutely awful for me to be in the hospital. The docs who attended me all month was sure I would bar the door and have an intentional UC, but I really wasn't planning it. So it IS possible... it's very unusual and unlikely to PLAN something like that and have it work out well.
I would choose to stay home ANY DAY over any sort of hospital birth. Even after catching my own baby in a hospital, which I didn't even get to do with both my home births, I'd choose to deliver at home, it's by far a better way to go. IME.
My birth story is here.
I am still processing the birth experience. I feel quite upset by the experience. I feel like I need a "do over". I don't know how hospital birthing moms are EVER happy about the experience. I hated the hospital. It's my LAST choice in places to birth. I'd choose the car on the freeway over the hospital.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR CHOICES THOUGH!!!

Different drummer dancing with 3 kids in 3 decades.
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#4 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 03:25 PM
 
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I think it's highly unlikely that you get a uc in a hospital. Making that happen by refusing to let anyone in seems like it would create an agitated birthing environment which would not be conducive to a peaceful or safe birth. Not safe b/c your emotional/mental state could inhibit your body from functioning optimally and invite unnecessary interventions, yk? It would be very stressful for me to be in a room w/people knocking on the door trying to come in while my husband dealt with them instead of being a birthing partner to me.

Keep reading. Keep looking at options. You don't have to decide today. I know how it feels starting out.

I've had 1 frestanding bc birth, 2 hbs and will likely uc this time. It was a progression for me. Evaluate your fears and overcome them. The more you know, the more your confidence will grow.

April
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#5 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 04:45 PM
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even doctors and chemist/engineers can decide to UC if they are convinced that they don't need emergency services.
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#6 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 04:57 PM
 
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Once the hospital staff knows you're there, it's not possible. UC is unassisted childbirth, and they're not going to leave you alone once you're on their turf.

Why not look into a birth center?

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13yo ds   10yo dd  8yo ds and 6yo ds and 1yo ds  
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#7 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 05:15 PM
 
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fak

Interesting you ask. I've had several birthing dreams, mostly at home, a few in the hospital, and some hospital ones when I uc. Usually i n the bathroom, sometimes by the bed. Never fought anyone, I wasjust left alone a little too long . And I'm not even pregnant.

Dd 9/99 via csection. 6 lbs 10oz

Dd 1/11 via vbac. 8 lbs 10oz

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#8 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 07:44 PM
 
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I think I'd be scared of retaliation by the hospital staff. Yes, legally you can refuse treatment for yourself and your baby (tell them not to touch you) but from the things I've seen on these boards, such a decision is often met with hostility by the hospital staff. I'd be worried the staff would decide I was "endangering" my baby and call CPS. When I considered a hospital birth with a midwife and asked her (during the interview) about delayed cord clamping she said she was okay with it but some of the nurses were not and if we got the "wrong nurse" and didn't go along with them, they often would find a reason the baby has to be taken to the nursery for "observation". It's a weird, twisted system.

To echo other posters, home births (UC or otherwise) are wonderful!

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#9 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 07:49 PM
 
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If your DH is a physician, then technically he's qualified to perform any "emergency services" that may be required, isn't he? That would mean a homebirth that he attended would not "technically" be a UC, wouldn't it?

Would that thought make either of you feel better?

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#10 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 07:53 PM
 
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My first thought it that electronic fetal monitoring makes it impossible to birth alone in a hospital. They can see when you're pushing from the nurses station - and in comes the calvalry.
If you don't want EFM, why not be at home?

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#11 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 08:03 PM
 
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however, it was baby no. 8, she had all others at home w/midwife, AND it was almost 30 years ago in another country.
its a long story as to why she ended up in the hospital (she is still a big homebirth advocate), but she didn't like how the doctor was treating her. he kept threatening c/s if she didn't hurry up. so, when the doctor and nurse left for rounds she got up adn locked the door. then she birthed her son on the floor. she is always very matter of fact about it. she says, it was my 8th kid, i knew how to push him out, i didn't need the doctor there.
of course, i don't think you could lock yourself in todays hospitals and you would probably have a lot of legal issues if you tried. the consent forms you sign when you enter the hospital basically take away your right to decline treatments if the doctor decides they are in your best interest.
i think your best bet is in a homebirth or birth center.
unless you live in the boonies, you would probably be transfered and sectioned as quickly as if you were in a hospital. they can call ahead and have a room prepped for you when you arrive. and a good m/w can figure out most problems that could led to trouble before you go into labor (breech, pre-clampsia, etc), or in early labor.
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#12 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 08:20 PM
 
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If you don't want to be monitored through labor, or have anyone checking on you, then what added benefit to being at the hospital would there be? Are you thinking you would just know when an emergency was starting to occur you could call them in?

Not at all feasible, IMO, and I think a midwife attended birth center or homebirth would offer way more safety advantages than a UC hospital birth could. My understanding of UC is that the reason it is so successful is that the mother has such a deep seated trust in the process of birth that things unfold naturally and instinctually. I don't see at all how you could get in that head space at the hospital while your husband is playing watch dog at the door. I also don't think it's entirely possible for your husband to do what he is promising, not because he isn't good-hearted, but because it doesn't matter who he is or that he is a doctor...their turf, their rules at least to some extent. I can't see them letting that go down, as there's liability on their part.

good luck with your decision making! it really sounds like homebirth would be a better option for you.

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#13 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 08:21 PM
 
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Considering that a hospital is an institution where sick and injured people go to receive medical treatment, one would wonder why you would go there if you don't want them to do anything for you.
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#14 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 08:28 PM
 
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You would be assigned a doc the moment you walk in and register. You could only UC by accident in a hospital (as some of the PP's have written).

Why not try and find a MW and get a doula . . . talk a great deal about your desires beforehand and continue to do the prep you are doing . . .having others able to keep to you plan while you are doing the birthing would really go a long way to ensuring your wishes are carried out.
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#15 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks everyone for all the responses.

Rational or not, my biggest fears are something happening in that 1st hour after birth, either to me (pph) or baby (unable to revive). DH has other concerns based on scary things he sees at work, like amniotic fluid embolism. Neither of us wants him as my doctor: I want him as my partner, he is very worried that if something went wrong and he knew how to fix it but we were at home and he didn't have equipment to help that it would be even worse than not knowing how to help.

So my thought process was to labor mostly at home and show up at the hospital for the last bit...

I realize writing this that things can go wrong at all different stages of pregnancy and labor and it doesn't make sense to live at the hospital, lol. Guess I need to think and research more. I have an appt. w/a CNM soon and I've already met w/a CPM who does homebirths here. I'm exploring the whole spectrum from UC to hospital to figure out where I feel safe. So far that's nowhere!!

Thanks again for all the thoughts--any more are greatly appreciated!
Anna
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#16 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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I think a UC in a hospital doesn't exist for so many reasons listed above.

ALSO, remember that hospitals are NASTY and DIRTY places. Just being inside of one seriously increases your chance of infection.

-Angela
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#17 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 09:52 PM
 
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I think you're in a great place - you are newly pregnant, and you've realized you've got lots of options! I highly recommend that you and your dh write down his fears so you can address actual fears rather than a nebulous cloud of anxiety.

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#18 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 10:52 PM
 
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another thign to consider is that (as another posted) it is "their turf, their rules". if they feel that your husband is preventing them from doing their job, they will bar him from the room. he really can't prevent teh nruses and doctors from coming in, they will just kick him out. a lot of their "respect" for what the mother wants and her birth plan only extends as far as they want it to. it doesn't matter if you don't want pit or your husband says you shouldn't be laboring on your back, if that is what they want you to do, that is what will happen. if he stands in the way, he will be standing outside. then what will you do?
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#19 of 55 Old 02-26-2008, 11:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel_eva View Post
another thign to consider is that (as another posted) it is "their turf, their rules". if they feel that your husband is preventing them from doing their job, they will bar him from the room. he really can't prevent teh nruses and doctors from coming in, they will just kick him out. a lot of their "respect" for what the mother wants and her birth plan only extends as far as they want it to. it doesn't matter if you don't want pit or your husband says you shouldn't be laboring on your back, if that is what they want you to do, that is what will happen. if he stands in the way, he will be standing outside. then what will you do?
Except for that little thing called battery. If you decline a procedure, intervention, etc they can not perform it. To do so without consent is battery.

Now they can harass you and make your life miserable until you feel you have no option but to consent, but they can't force any procedure or intervention upon you without your consent. If you really want to shake things up, refuse to sign the blanket consent to treatment upon admission, then they must ask for every little thing they want to do and must document the heck out of it to cover themselves liability wise.

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#20 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 12:18 AM
 
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I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but many UCers hire a MW to sit in the other room while they birth and then she's there for any probs that might arise.
Another option to consider...
Cheers,
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#21 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 12:49 AM
 
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Except for that little thing called battery. If you decline a procedure, intervention, etc they can not perform it. To do so without consent is battery.

Now they can harass you and make your life miserable until you feel you have no option but to consent, but they can't force any procedure or intervention upon you without your consent. If you really want to shake things up, refuse to sign the blanket consent to treatment upon admission, then they must ask for every little thing they want to do and must document the heck out of it to cover themselves liability wise.
tha is the important thing to be aware of what you are signing. if you sign the blanket consent form i think that any court would back up the doctors. they after all "know what is best". i think that is the reason that i have never heard of someone suing for malpractice when they have been forced to have a c/s due to interventions. (those lawsuits could be out there, i just have never heard fo one) i think that our society and laws have been set up to trust what the doctor says, particularly the regular expectation of the intervention protocal that happens in hospitals. if the doctors follow the "normal" practice that ACOG reccomends then i don't think you have any standing if you signed the blanket form.
regardless, i still don't think that any hospital will let a husband bar doctors or nurses from checking you or going about their normal routine. i know that at one of our local hospitals there are two m/w practices who basically stop the nurses from coming intot he rooms until after the births and only use their birth assistants. but, they are practioners adn have some agreements with the hospital to practice the way they want to. without an attendant like that, i don't think that a hospital would allow someone to treat their rooms like a hotel and show up but refuse to let anyone "treat" them.
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#22 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 12:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rachel_eva View Post
regardless, i still don't think that any hospital will let a husband bar doctors or nurses from checking you or going about their normal routine. i know that at one of our local hospitals there are two m/w practices who basically stop the nurses from coming intot he rooms until after the births and only use their birth assistants. but, they are practioners adn have some agreements with the hospital to practice the way they want to. without an attendant like that, i don't think that a hospital would allow someone to treat their rooms like a hotel and show up but refuse to let anyone "treat" them.
Yep, you're right there. The husband can't control what happens in that room, the patient only has that ability. So the OP will have to be willing to speak up for herself and let her wishes be known.

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#23 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 06:17 AM
 
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Although many people in this thread don't want to hear this, but it IS possible depending on your definition of UC (and since its YOUR birth, its only your definition that matters). I'm not sure why they don't want to hear this, you would think they would be happy to hear of a 'good story'.

What it depends on, is what facilities you have near you. I had a *wonderful* hospital experience. It is a anthrosophic/homeopathic hospital capable of full emergency services but believe in 'patient led healing' which also carries over to their birthing unit - not as a patient but as a birthing mother who calls her own shots. I laboured mostly outside, with my husband and then in a beautiful room with a birthing pool - the windows were all open with birds and lilac trees, etc. I called ALL the shots and didn't even so much have a urine test. There was an OB and midwife in the room the minute I gave birth, they were only there for the last 6 minutes when I asked them to be there, and I caught the baby myself. The midwife who was there had checked in with us several times to see if we needed anything but was pretty much invisible and was really very brilliant about gauging whether or not I needed her voice or hands.

They also never touched the baby. The baby came out and went straight on my chest. I had her there for 3 hours before I finally decided I should try to pee. She was never bathed, vaxxed, touched, etc and I could go home right away. (I didn't, because of other issues)


Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5 View Post
Once the hospital staff knows you're there, it's not possible. UC is unassisted childbirth, and they're not going to leave you alone once you're on their turf.

Why not look into a birth center?
Some do. Its possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
I think a UC in a hospital doesn't exist for so many reasons listed above.

ALSO, remember that hospitals are NASTY and DIRTY places. Just being inside of one seriously increases your chance of infection.

-Angela
We've talked about this before and you conceded that YOU have never been in a nice hospital. They do exist. The first place i gave birth was just as you (and everyone else) said. Then 2nd place was probably a whole lot cleaner than our house and actually more private and quieter as well.

btw, I wish i could post pics from the actual birth but ive got a photo/internet/privacy hangup. But I do have a pic of the tub AFTER i gave birth:

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l3...76-33-16PM.jpg

While it may not be considered UC, something like my experience could be something that might fit your own desires. I spent a lot of time before hand arranging hospital visits and picked the one that sat with me and talked to me the longest and seemed to be really open about what *I* wanted. I also prepped myself BIG TIME so that there would be no reason for anyone to interfere (i.e. hypnobirthing, high protein diet, etc)
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#24 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 09:30 AM
 
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Hey how about rent a caravan, park it in the hospital parkinglot and birth there. In case of an emergency you would have the hospital right there..

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#25 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 10:20 AM
 
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I'd strongly suggest reading Birthing From Within cover to cover. Before you have this baby, you need to get out of the what-ifs? so that you can make this decision rationally.

I don't think UC is ever going to be possible in a hospital, but a beautiful natural birth can be. You just need a heck of a lot of luck and a good support team (and a very short birth plan.) Homebirths with midwives can be fantastic too. There's so many options nowadays, don't rule anything out.

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#26 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 10:30 AM
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just a thought, but there actually "is" a definition for UC. it means that means that there are no medical assistants present at the birth. Not even for "just 6 minutes" or "in the other room just in case."

it simply cannot be defined "as you see it." just as vegetarian isn't defined as "well, i do sometimes eat chicken/fish/beef." no, i'm sorry. it has a definition and it either applies to you or it doesn't.

the fact that it doesn't apply to you is not a judgement, it's a simple statement of fact. If a medical attendant is present--for 1 minute, 6 minutes, in the other room, etc--then it's technically not a UC.

now, i would call the birth in the hospital above (astrogirl's birth) as a non-interventive, natural hospital birth in a really lovely setting. i wish that those sorts of facilities were more of an option here in the US--but i highly doubt that sort of facility exists here (astrogirl is in canada; i should also note that a friend of mine birthed on her own, midwife in the room but not touching her, at a hospital in jerusalem; same for another friend in germany who was at a homeopathic hospital as well, etc--so in other countries, these non-interventive hospital births are available).

it's not that i "don't want to hear it" it's just that it's 'not within the definition of UC simply because it is full of medical attendants who are checking in, coming in when you want, available if you want, and so on. that's a medically attended birth and therefore not a UC.

There's nothing wrong with this, of course. It simply doesn't fit the definition of UC.

personally, i love to hear about good hospital births, because it demonstrates one aspect that we can strive for in this country and what moms might look for and ask for from the facilities that they're choosing.
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#27 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 11:02 AM
 
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Annaemmie -

When I read your last post I was reminded of a story in one of Ina Mae Gaskin's books - either Spiritual Midwifery or Ina Mae's Guide (read them both if you haven't). It was about 2 drs. in resident who wanted to birth at The Farm but, like your husband, had seen alot of complications and they were afraid of what if's. They did birth at The Farm but it was a journey. Fear based concerns can get stuck in your head - esp. if you've seen it over and over like a dr. has.

Read Henci Goer's books - factual, well researched. Read Childbirth Without Fear. Obstetric Myths vs. Realitied. Five Standard of Childbearing - or something like that. Then read whatever they reference And there's so many more I can't think of right now. I would also recommend looking into Hypnobabies. I am a previous Bradley teacher and also took Hypnobirthing classes irl but, ime, HBabies is the best! It is designed to give you confidence, empower you, educate you, and deal with fears. It also has an amazing self hypnosis technique that I personally benefitted from in my last birth. I had the most peaceful, best birth ever w/my 3rd and am using it again w/my 4th.

There's so many good books to read when you are first starting out. I read just about everything out there during the 7 yrs. I was pregnant/birthing. Then I thought we were done so I stopped reading. So now I'm moving down the unassisted cb book list. I'm not sure ucing is really what you want - you'll decide that when the time is right - but I did just read a very thoughtful book on attended births called The Power of Pleasurable Childbirth. Although you may choose to have a non-interventive attendant, I was very interested in the author's thoughts on how any attendant (even the most "innocuous", well meaning attendant) can alter a mother's birthing. That's where I am in my journey and I enjoyed the book immensely.

Read read read And look into Hbabies www.hynobabies.com - seriously. It might do wonders for you I am rooting for you AE! Keep us updated with thoughts and questions.

April
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#28 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 11:22 AM
 
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If only it were so simple, Astrogirl.

It's not that I haven't found the anthrosophic hospital within driving distance; it really and truly does not exist.

I think it's awesome that you had such a great hospital experience. I wish it were a real possibility for everyone.

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#29 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 11:35 AM
 
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I didn't want hospital staff trying to intervene. You may not like my idea, but its what I did. I walked around the hospital all day while in labor without checking in to L&D or even letting my midwife know I was in labor. I went waiting room to waiting room watching TV and reading magazines. I ate in the cafe or cafeteria when I was hungry, with no one restricting me. When I hit transition I noticed a few hospital workers giving me the hairy eye ball. When I hit transition I called the midwife to let them know I was on my way to the hospital. (I wasn't happy about this, I didn't think I was in transition, I thought I had a few hours, but my dh thankfully knew better) I showed up to the unit ready to push. It worked great! No time for an IV, or anything. I wish I would have showed up 10 minutes earlier so I could have birthed in a birthing tub. I didn't leave any time to fill the tub. I had to push as soon as I got the room practically. I pushed the baby out in 15 minutes and had no interventions. It worked great!!!!!
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#30 of 55 Old 02-27-2008, 01:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrogirl View Post
We've talked about this before and you conceded that YOU have never been in a nice hospital. They do exist. The first place i gave birth was just as you (and everyone else) said. Then 2nd place was probably a whole lot cleaner than our house and actually more private and quieter as well.
I believe that nice hospitals exist.

HOWEVER, statistically, even nice hospitals, are NASTY, infectious places. Simply the way things are.

-Angela
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