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-   -   Obstetric Gel from Europe (http://www.mothering.com/forum/213-birth-beyond/897315-obstetric-gel-europe.html)

nia82 05-14-2008 01:24 PM

http://e.dianatal.com/page/content/i...enu=3&Item=4.1

Hi guys,

My sister is able to buy it and send it to me and I'm sure I can convince a doula to put the stuff to good use during my delivery...
My concern is: will there be a problem as the stuff isn't FDA approved? I will gladly sign any waiver for lawsuits as long as I can use that stuff... I'd even trust my DH to use the stuff (the first phase at home anyways!!!).
Before I mention it to the hospital staff, do you think there is any possibility a doctor would agree to that measure in the USA? I am unaware of laws and regulations...

Anyways, the gel has shown to improve labor and reduce the risk of perineum tears.... It is even mandatory by law to use such gels in animal births in Germany... So why wouldn't we use the same medical improvement for human beings?

Thanks for your advice!!!

D'sMama 05-14-2008 03:36 PM

I would advise against it. Being mandatory for use in animal births in Germany means absolutely nothing about the safety for humans, nor does it necessarily mean it's a medical improvement - don't forget that animal breeding is a business which seeks profit and regularity.

Just from glancing at the ingredients in the link, it looks like the product has propylenglycolum a.k.a. propylene glycol. Propylene glycol is common in topical products like moisturizers, as it's a humectant (a moisture carrying vehicle)... it's also used in a number of industrial applications, notably antifreeze and brake fluids.

Here are the problems with this chemical:
1. It can cause sensitivity reactions & allergic reactions.
2. It absorbs moisture away from your skin.
3. It is a known irritant; sensitizing causes dryness, abnormal redness and sometimes blistering.
4. It has been shown to inhibit skin cell growth in human tests and cell respiration in animal tests.
5. It was found to cause skeletal muscular damage in rats and rabbits.
6. It has been reported to directly alter cell membranes to cause thickening of the skin, skin dehydration, and chronic surface damage to the skin.
7. It has been shown to increase beta activity (changes found in anxiety states) when inhaled.
8. It has been linked to many other problems, including contact dermatitis, autotoxicity, kidney damage, liver abnormalities.

The main reason why this chemical is used in so many topical and ophthalmic applications is because it is cheap and has a better permeation rate than other humectants. This doesn't mean it's safe.

Also note that it can be irritating to the skin if the formulation uses greater than 5% - there's no way to know what the percentage is in this product, but I would estimate well over 5%, particularly as it's the first ingredient listed.
Also note that because it has a small molecular weight it easily enters the body.

It's up to you of course, but I personally wouldn't put that stuff anywhere near my mucus membranes, and I would never slather it all over a newborn infant. The baby could so easily get it into his/her mouth, eyes, nose, etc., not to mention absorb it through every inch of skin on his/her body. Who knows what kind of effect it will have on a baby with such a small weight and body mass?

FYI, the info above is from Beauty to Die For, by Judi *****. She has a lot of studies and research to support this data.
Please do some further research before you subject yourself and your child to potentially hazardous chemicals.

sapphire_chan 05-14-2008 04:10 PM

Added to that is the issue that the best thing to do to protect the perineum is to leave things be and a gel like this encourages messing about down there.

In reading a bit more of the literature, it seems to be yet another product designed to replace moisture that women are producing naturally. Why wouldn't the amniotic fluid or amniotic sac be acting as a lubricant--because some OB broke the waters during "the first vaginal examination [during which] 3 to 5 ml gel is introduced into the vaginal birth canal using a sterile glove and is carefully applied"

applejuice 05-14-2008 04:36 PM

No.

Why?

In a word: thalidomide.

Read its history. Learn from experience.

nashvillemidwife 05-14-2008 10:33 PM

Thalidomide?

This is just a lubricant, merely emulsified propylene glycol (the same active ingredient in K-Y jelly and Astroglide). First, it's not necessary, and second, if you really feel that it is, this product has nothing to offer than you can't get from Astroglide or (even better) olive oil.

applejuice 05-14-2008 11:24 PM

My point re: thalidomide is that it was a pregnancy related drug (for anxiety), it was from Europe, and had not passed the muster of the FDA at the time.

It was one woman in the American FDA who held up its approval. There is a reason why a drug is not approved for use in the United States. Often it is a good reason. Thalidomide is a teratogen.

FYI, currently in the United States, thalidomide is approved for the use against Hanson's Disease, i.e., leprosy.

nashvillemidwife 05-14-2008 11:34 PM

Have they tried to get FDA approval? It's just a lubricant.

JessicaS 05-15-2008 03:20 AM

That isn't a drug it's KY.



If you really want something like that just get some vegetable glycerine and add a bit of water to it.

pamamidwife 05-15-2008 04:40 AM

Women make their own lubrication during birth, just like during sex.

I even think that vernix helps.

But then again perhaps we believe that a slippery vagina will mean a baby that just slides out?

Hmmm...best prevention for bad tears? Stay out of the bed and don't let anyone touch your vagina during pushing!

tireesix 05-15-2008 04:48 AM

I don't like the fact it requires around 4 vaginal examinattions in order to apply it and also what pamamidwife says. I don't get where this 'friction' comes from.

I am in Europe (UK) I wouldn't use it.

flapjack 05-15-2008 12:57 PM

I'm assuming that KY jelly is routinely used by all practitioners during VEs in the US? It's certainly used pretty liberally over here (UK)

queenjulie 05-15-2008 02:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
I'm assuming that KY jelly is routinely used by all practitioners during VEs in the US? It's certainly used pretty liberally over here (UK)
During a vaginal exam for a Pap smear or something, yeah, when they're putting in a speculum. During birth? No. Why would they? The baby doesn't need any lubricant to help it come out!

nashvillemidwife 05-15-2008 04:58 PM

Yes, it's routine to use KY for vaginal exams in labor. They're lubricating their fingers for the exam, not for the baby coming out. (You're not supposed to use it with the speculum when you do a pap smear because it can mess up the sample.)

Belle 05-15-2008 05:12 PM

During my hospital birth they just used mineral oil. No need to worry about strange chemicals. The hospital provided it. For what its worth, I tore. I also had the OB "massaging" my perineum. Oh, and I was flat on my back too.

During my homebirth I was upright in a pool. I breathed the baby out instead of pushing. No lube, no oil, no massage, and no tear.

nashvillemidwife 05-15-2008 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belle View Post
During my hospital birth they just used mineral oil. No need to worry about strange chemicals.
Heh. I consider mineral oil to be a strange chemical. Just because something is naturally occurring doesn't mean you should smear it on your body.

(Actually, mineral oil isn't naturally occurring, it's a by-product of gasoline manufacturing).

Belle 05-15-2008 05:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nashvillemidwife View Post
Heh. I consider mineral oil to be a strange chemical. Just because something is naturally occurring doesn't mean you should smear it on your body.

(Actually, mineral oil isn't naturally occurring, it's a by-product of gasoline manufacturing).
I didn't know that, no wonder my midwives had me buy a bottle of olive oil. It sat unused during the birth but makes more sense.

nashvillemidwife 05-15-2008 05:45 PM

I used to work with a midwife who recommended mineral oil because it was cheap. She would literally pour it on the baby's head as it was crowning. I would cringe, because I kept thinking "what if the baby aspirates that gunk?" As least olive oil is rapidly absorbed.

sapphire_chan 05-15-2008 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
I'm assuming that KY jelly is routinely used by all practitioners during VEs in the US? It's certainly used pretty liberally over here (UK)
For regular office visits. OMG! Wait, you mean that care providers don't use lube for VEs during births? Ouchie.... I thought VEs were just a horrible idea, I didn't realize they did 'em dry sometimes.

flapjack 05-16-2008 07:26 AM

I'm hoping not, but the way this thread was going, I was worried...literally sitting here with my legs crossed

notjustmamie 05-16-2008 12:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
I'm assuming that KY jelly is routinely used by all practitioners during VEs in the US? It's certainly used pretty liberally over here (UK)
For regular office visits. OMG! Wait, you mean that care providers don't use lube for VEs during births? Ouchie.... I thought VEs were just a horrible idea, I didn't realize they did 'em dry sometimes.
"Dry" really wasn't an issue while I was laboring.

pamamidwife 05-16-2008 08:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
For regular office visits. OMG! Wait, you mean that care providers don't use lube for VEs during births? Ouchie.... I thought VEs were just a horrible idea, I didn't realize they did 'em dry sometimes.

No, there's almost always lube used. I can't think of a time they wouldn't use lube.

(When I do waterbirths lube is pretty silly under the water when doing a VE - I prefer olive oil)

sapphire_chan 05-17-2008 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by pamamidwife View Post
No, there's almost always lube used. I can't think of a time they wouldn't use lube.

(When I do waterbirths lube is pretty silly under the water when doing a VE - I prefer olive oil)
Oh, whew.

Then WTF is this gel for?

sapphire_chan 05-17-2008 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by notjustmamie View Post
"Dry" really wasn't an issue while I was laboring.
Well, Pamamidwife explained this, but I was thinking of stories of people having tons of "no, still haven't dilated yet" "Oh! you've dilated to 1cm (2cm) (3cm)!" exams, before anything's even happening. I mean, lack of lubrication would have helped account for some of those "my water broke during a routine exam".

notjustmamie 05-17-2008 12:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Well, Pamamidwife explained this, but I was thinking of stories of people having tons of "no, still haven't dilated yet" "Oh! you've dilated to 1cm (2cm) (3cm)!" exams, before anything's even happening.
Ahh. I didn't have any of those. That makes more sense now. Thanks!

nashvillemidwife 05-17-2008 01:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapphire_chan View Post
Then WTF is this gel for?
They company's rationale for it is laid out pretty well on their website (in the first post). I don't agree with it, but it's there for you to read.

wendy1221 05-17-2008 02:17 PM

My midwife puts both OB lube and olive oil on the birth supply list.

What I need to try and remember to ask is if we need to buy a new bottle of lube. We still have some left from ds3's birth. lol

rolenta 05-17-2008 02:32 PM

I doubt you could even get it into the country. I know someone who tried to bring gripe water into the states from Canada (just for personal use) but couldn't because it's approved in Canada but not in the States. They took it and threw it out.

kaylee18 05-17-2008 03:30 PM

I live in the US and I saw gripe water for sale in a store yesterday. Dietary supplements don't have to be FDA approved to be sold here.

rolenta 05-17-2008 03:37 PM

Must've been an anal border guard, then.

AmieV 05-17-2008 07:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by rolenta View Post
Must've been an anal border guard, then.
Ha ha...you said "anal" in a discussion of lubricant...forgive my immature sense of humor.

Our olive oil was used for rubbing down baby's skin AFTER the birth. My midwife calls it "fettucine-ing the baby". We live at altitude with dry weather so it helps keep them from getting scaly.


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