Reeling after three unneccesary inductions resulting in caesarean section - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 02:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I need a big doula/midwife hug here because I had a real piss off of this week.

I always have a big talk with my clients about the risk of unneccesary induction and the risks of being overdue and what ones options are etc.
It seems they always get pressured into it somehow and I always support their decision whatever it is, but on the inside I cringe.
Why? I think that unneccesary induction is the single worst thing that we are doing to women giving birth today, and probably the greatest cause of caesarean section.

So I have had three births almost in a row (two this week and one a month ago)where the labour and birth has been almost exactly the same.

All three; extremely healthy pregnancies, great results on non-stress tests, and ultrasounds. No problems at all whatsoever. The most recent of them had alleged mild gestational diabetes but never had a blood sugar problem once in her pregnancy after the GTT.
All of them had refused induction at least once or put it off knowing it was not what they wanted but all eventually got pushed scared into it, despite the very apparent health of their babies. The most recent was only three days past her due date.

The first two were cervadil inductions and labour progressed slowly but surely and coped up until about 8 cms and at least 12 hrs without epidural(not an easy feat with induction!), the last one was not cervadil as her cervix was pretty ripe when they started the induction. All of them reached full dilation a couple hours after their epidurals and every single one of them the babys were very high. So we waited and waited for a couple hours and even turned off the epidurals and had women move into different positions to coax the baby down. And each time the doctor would come in and examen and the baby would still be at 0 or higher no progress hour after hour, and the doctor would eventually go on about how dangerous it is to be fully dilated for more than one or two hours without giving birth(wtf?) and how they had one hour to push their baby out or a c-section. Soo we would start pushing. We would try squatting, all fours, on the side, lithomy, the whole bit, strong great pushes from these amazing women who didnt complain once, and the babies wouldnt come down a centimeter. We would put off the doctors and keep trying and after hours and hours of pushing it was obvious, each time that the baby was not going to come down.
Each time the baby was malpositioned, the first two were posterior and the last was asynclitic(you could see the swelling on one side of the head).
Like the babies werent ready to come and we had to force it and they just wouldnt go into position.

Each woman was so devistated at having to have a caesarean most after 24 hours of hard active labour and many hours of pushing. Each time I got progressively more frustrated.
This is bad medicine, its bad practice. Even one of the nurses made the comment, 'induction equals caesarean'.
None of these women had any indication for induction and all of them had been going for natural births. All of them tried to refuse but got scared into it each time, and all of them regretted it after.
So sad. So frustrating. We all did our best but nothing was going to bring those babies, who werent ready, out against their will.
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#2 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I meant to post this in birth professionals. Can someone move it?
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#3 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 03:51 PM
 
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Even one of the nurses made the comment, 'induction equals caesarean'.
Well, I suppose a more accurate statement would be that "induction equals caesarean AFTER a hellish attempt (in vain) to birth naturally." Right? That's the impression I have.

I know you wanted this moved to the birth pros board. But I'm currently 41W 2D & really freaking out. THANKFULLY my MWs are very cool. Just chatting with one of them, I told them how my co-workers were really pissing me off & one guy even said, "You know you can get induced on your due date?" And I thought that was ridiculous. Before I could go on about how dangerous I know induction to be (and STUPID to do it without medical cause), she said, "It increases the risk of a c-section." Right off the bat - SHE said it. So they certainly aren't pushing me.

I had my first NST + AFT on Monday - at 41W to the day. GREAT results. The next is scheduled for Thursday.

I would GREATLY appreciate if you could let me know HOW your clients were pressured & scared into induction? It will be reassuring to me to be armed with this info.
One thing I've heard is that they claim the placenta degrades - which I know is possible, but I have not read of one specific date by which this tends to happen. In some ladies, it could begin a degradation process at 38W, in others, it could be fully healthy at 43W, right? The best way to monitor placental health is the NSTs + kick counts. If twice weekly NSTs + detailed daily kick counts continue to result in reassuring outcomes, placental degradation should be ruled out, correct?

The other thing I've read of is oligiohydramnioisis - low fluid. I know I need to drink lots of water myself to keep my fluid up. If I get diagnosed with that, maybe I ought to schedule a "second opinion" US the next day after drinking TONS of water?

Anything else to look out for?

Thanks!!!
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#4 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 04:48 PM
 
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Hello, I just wanted to say to you, that *if* you do end up having an induction, it does not necessarily = ceserean section. I had an induction with my second child. I labored with out pain relief, and he was born vaginally and safe. I just wanted to say that, because if you go into an induction with fears of a ceserean, that isn't a healthy mindspace to be in. I'm sure you'll do fine. I have really late babies too, past 42 weeks easy, so don't fret.
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#5 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 05:55 PM
 
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I had three clients in a row who were induced and two were c-sections. I just wanted to give you some hugs because it's really hard when they come all in a row like that. You KNOW that things are going to probably be more difficult with an induction and you are PRAYING that somehow things will turn out. After those three, I finally was at an amazine birth center birth. It was very renewing. When did childbirth ever get so complicated! Hard to watch, I know.

Jamie, DW to Jeff, birth and postpartum doula and Hypnobabies instructor.
4 years and 5 IVF cycles in the making, Elliott was born at home in water on 2/2/11.
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#6 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That is the reason I wanted to put this in birth professionals rather than the general birth section. I dont want to scare anyone.
I am going to need a good successful natural birth soon to lift me back up!

Necessary induction is a different story, I find it tends to work better when the baby needs to get out. They are concerned with the placenta breaking down or calcifying, oligiohydramnioisis, and believe it or not CPD! They always go on about how your baby will get to big.

The first of the three was an immigrant woman with poor english or french skills who was alone here and there were communication problems on every angle but essentially her doctor was going on holiday, and told her he had to induce and I had to explain to her that that didnt mean no one would be there, she actually thought she would be left alone if he wasnt there. Then he just scared her with the dangers of post date and she couldnt argue anymore.

The second woman was in her forties, and had gone in because she thought she was trickling amniotic fluid, but she was not. She was having NSTs every other day which were all fine. She wanted to go home but her doctor said no because since she was over 40 her placenta could just disintegrate really fast without her knowing it and her baby would be too big and blah blah blah, she knew it wasnt really the case but couldnt argue anymore.

The third was more or less the same. Each time it was like 'risk risk risk, argue argue argue, risk risk risk' and the women couldnt argue anymore. Its too stressful. The only people I know who have been able to refuse induction for more than a couple days just stopped going to the doctors until they were in labour.
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#7 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 06:30 PM
 
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I am sorry you have hit such a rough spot. The thing is though, you just described my first birth. All except for the fact that i was technically in "labor" when they started the pit (but once I got to the hospital things has slowed WAY down). My first experience brought me here though. And it brought me a ton of new knowledge. And it is going to make it so my next birth (in March) is an awesome home birth VBAC. While i do wish i didn't have to go through that c-section, it has made me smarter and a lot more wary of the medical professionals I allow into my life.

W (26) and C (27) parenting G (11/06 ) and D (2/09 ) plus a new one (3/11)
Sometimes the greener grass is actually AstroTurf, a false promise and nothing more.
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#8 of 12 Old 07-16-2008, 08:30 PM
 
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As a fellow doula, I feel your pain. Inductions are terrible. If it were my birth I would never consent to an induction before 43 weeks (but would consent to NST after 40) and I believe that's evidence based. But when I'm a doula it's not my birth. You want your clients to make the best decisions, but you can't make their decisions for them. It's hard. It's extremely frustrating. You've educated, you've informed and you've let the client make their own decisions. What else can you do?

CNM mama.

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#9 of 12 Old 07-17-2008, 12:02 AM
 
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I was bullied into an induction. They started when they decided I was 41 weeks (I was actually 38-39 but no one listened to me). Even though I knew I was in the right and they were wrong, I caved. They just kept stating that if the baby died it wuold be my fault and I wouldn't want that. Apparently I would go in on a Thursday and baby would be here by the Friday.It wwas my first baby, I was suffering from major social phobia (hadn't been to bad pre-pregnancy but pregnancy worsened it majorly). I don't know, I knew the reasons to not have an induction, I was well informed, but I couldn't handle the lack of support from the birth professionals. My DH didn't want to seem unsupportive and would say I need to do what I think is best, I know he thought that was helpful but it wasn't lol.

I did not end up with a section but I did end up very traumatised and it has left me with issues surrounding birth. I had a good homebirth since then but that induction was like a black cloud over it, flash backs during labour etc.

Hoping this one is better.

Induction does not have to be bad, what does Henci Goer say? Something ike 'when an induction is most likely to work, its when you are least likely to need it and when it doeesn't work is when you are most likely to need it'.

I always say, unless there are problems with mum and/or baby, just leave it alone. With my first the MWs said towards the end of that pregnancy 'your cervix is softening etc'. If I had just waited, grown some balls or something. What is the point of inducing someone when their body is slowly showing signs that things are actually happening? What the hell is the point in that?
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#10 of 12 Old 07-17-2008, 12:05 AM - Thread Starter
 
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If you had of grown balls they might have gotten in the way while you were giving birth.

I am sorry about your traumatising induction. They really are awful.
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#11 of 12 Old 07-17-2008, 12:27 AM
 
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If you had of grown balls they might have gotten in the way while you were giving birth.

I am sorry about your traumatising induction. They really are awful.
It wasn't just the induction which is the thing, tthe whole induction was bad enough but its also the way you are treated in hospital.

I admit I wasn't very co operative. According to them I NEEDED the induction because the baby MIGHT die. So they book me in for a Thursday. I think ok, leets just get it done with. Does it happen like that? No, not here anyway (UK). They start with a pessary Thursday Evening. I start getting contractions, the MW tells me to have a bath, contractions die down. I have another pessary Friday morning, contractions start up again, getting quite uncomfortable, we let the MWs know, they say that I will have another pessary that afternoon but for now I can go for a walk. I go for a walk, come back for repeat pessary, they say the delivery ward is to busy and they can't continue until Saturday. RIGHT after they say this, everything stops, still. I am crying, I have been uncomfortable, not got much sleep, everything is feeling all over the place.

Saturday comes, they give me another pessary and say they will be back in the afternoon to talk further about induction things. Contractions start, feeling very uncomfortable and I am getting blistered etc from the pessaries (turns out me and these stupid artificial type hormone things don't get on). Saturday afternoon comes and yeet again, the delivery ward is full. I am in tears again, again everything stops within minutes of the news. I say I am going home and they pull out the 'but the baby might die and it will be your fault, plus we have given you the pessaries now and if you start reacting to them and there is something wrong wwith the baby you might not get back her in time'. I relent and spend the night crying my eyes out.

Sunday they decide to break my waters, by this point I am just fed up and terrified, I just want to be at home with my DH and the baby. They seem nice enough down on the ward but dedspite me having a crap ishops score, they break my waters and the Ob even said 'thats the worst one I have ever had to do'. Nice, not.

Anyway, baby was born Monday morning, after some really crap treatment (ie after waters were broken, DH and I were left to it in a room where the bell didn't work, I ended up with an epidural which didn't work so I then had a spinal whle they resited another epidural, if a MW had just been there to support me, I don't know).

So, anyway, apparently, these inuctions are absolutely necessary to prevent dead babies BUT once they get you in hospital, you can go over your due date, just as long as the hospital thinks they are doing something.

I had no idea about the fact that they would just decide to start and stop things as they wanted. They never tell you that, they can book you in but if things are busy over there, they can keep you hanging.

It makes me so ANGRY. All of it. I didn't know just how that birth had affected me until DD2 came along (homebirth). The difference even now is amazing. The feelings I get when I hold them is different, there are times I just can't stand to be touched by DD1 and it makes me so sad and it makes me feel so guilty. I know it wasn't all my fault, but I was supposed to protect her, and I didn't.

I keep saying, induction doesn't have to bad BUT there are SO MANY stories like mine and it doesn't just affect the birth, there are long lastig consequences for those where things don't go right whether they be physical and/or emotional.
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#12 of 12 Old 07-17-2008, 02:26 AM
 
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I keep saying, induction doesn't have to bad BUT there are SO MANY stories like mine and it doesn't just affect the birth, there are long lastig consequences for those where things don't go right whether they be physical and/or emotional.

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