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#31 of 51 Old 11-14-2003, 09:02 PM
 
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Who's to say that early experience doesn't matter? If a child's first experience is pain and discomfort, who is to say that child won't be affected? Of course, the rest of its life matters too, but I don't think that means it's OK to give it a crappy birth experience.

Some women truly need surgical intervention, but there are also a lot of women who plan it unnecessarily. These include women who are having their first baby and just don't want to deal with a vaginal birth. I think if one really needs a surgical delivery, it should be made as painless as possible for the baby. The baby should not be born before it is ready. It should be able to experience some labor first. It should be gently lifted out and given to the mother and allowed to nurse and fully room-in. The father should be able to be present completely, even if general anesthesia is to be used. The surgeons should actively communicate with the mother instead of talking about sports. What hospital in the world would ever do all this for one little baby?

I am planning a home birth because I think it will be best for the baby. It's quite inconvenient for me, but this is not my birth. I know what people mean when they say that lately no one thinks of the baby. In the latest Mothering, Peggy O'Mara talks about an article she read on the new "walking" epidurals, and she says the word "baby" is never mentioned. It's only the mother the article focuses on, as if it's somehow her experience alone.
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#32 of 51 Old 11-14-2003, 10:09 PM
 
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First I want to make some comments. It is very rare for a first mother to plan an elective csection. The few I know that did plan them were for medical reasons, valid ones. While I agree that with csection rate of 25% is high and that there are unnecessary ones being done, about half of those are necessary medically. (I believe the WHO says ours should be around 9-10% -- dont quote me on that)

Also, some of us do plan our csections, and while I will agree that idealisticly we should wait to go into labor -- for some of this would be the wrong path to take for medical and emotional reasons. I know that for me, emotionally, my last csection needed to be planned. To achieve the birth and experience I needed for me and my baby I needed a Date. I can assure you, he wasn't ripped from my womb and man handled into the horrify world of the surgery room. :

I saw my baby being born, he was brought into the world beautifully, he was on my chest right aftrewards, and he was at my breast 15 minutes after he was born. No trauma, no pain and we roomed in. And my doctor didnt talk about sports -- we talked about commercials and Monsters Inc. and my deformed uterus. I was actually laughing on the surgery table. Yes, laughing. No one was disrespectufl of my wishes or my plan. In fact it was wonderful!

I think its condescending to say "what hospital would do this for one little baby". Well the one I went to did. And it is happening in hospitals all over the US. I believe it is ideal to birth your baby at home but shit happens, real human beings with feelings and medical problems, or even normal human beings with no medical problems -- have and continue to achieve the birth they want in hospitals. (my friend did this week! and she elected to go to have her baby in a hospital after a beautiful UC at home)

I will agree focus needs to be put on baby, but not all of it. Happy mommas are key. I think focus should be put on them, their experience, their feelings. They should be educated and not bullied to do it the ACOG way or the natural childbirth granola hippie way either. For some of us, there is a middle ground -- one we are comfortable one, one we feel is right for us.
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#33 of 51 Old 11-14-2003, 10:56 PM
 
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I think its condescending to say "what hospital would do this for one little baby". Well the one I went to did. And it is happening in hospitals all over the US.
I know of no hospital that will allow a father to be present while the mother is asleep. If yours was that way, or if you know of any that are, that is good. That's one rule that needs to be scrapped! It was made to serve only the hospital and not the patients. That and the one that says lesbian partners aren't allowed in even if the mother is awake. I don't think I'm wrong to say that most hospital procedures are done for the good of the institution and not the mother or baby.

I think some women who plan c/s have been told their reason is medical when it really isn't. "Small pelvis," "large baby," etc. And I personally know women who have done it because their husbands were going to be on a business trip on the due date. It seems everywhere I go where there are a lot of pregnant women (other than here!) they are all talking about just going for surgery because "it's so much easier and safer." And of course there are all those articles coming out on how vaginal birth causes fetal trauma and urinary incontinence and how cesareans are always the safest way for any baby. ACOG decided it was ethical for doctors to perform cesareans for non-medical reasons. (There is a thread in Activism about this.)

I think a lot of injuries that happen to c/s moms and babies come from the doctors not paying attention during surgery. One book suggests that doctors need to detach themselves as much as possible to get over the fact that they are cutting open a human being, so that's why they talk about sports and food with each other. But that's good they actually talked to you!

Another thing that would be good is letting other children be present. Make it a truly family-centered birth! And, more support for the mother afterward; support that doesn't consist of "Get your lazy ass out of that bed; you're not dead!" Is a mother really ready to leave after 72 hours? That seems very short.
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#34 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 12:14 AM
 
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It's very easy to judge a mother for having an unnecessary cesarean if you have never had one before. One might think , "Well, if you would have educated yourself..." or "I would never let them do that!" but unless you have experienced it first-hand(and in most cases not even then), I really don't think you are in any position to assume that these women are uneducated, wilting violets, pushovers, or similarly flawed.

I could go into lengthy detail about why I ended up with a cesarean although I was:
a)educated - having read all the right books and spoken with educated natural/home/experienced birthers
b)vocal about not having interventions
c)an advocate for myself and the baby's well-being to the full extent of my abilities both before and after labor and birth

I don't think anyone is arguing here that there aren't unneccesary elective surgeries done, or that the cesarean rate isn't appallingly high. The point that I, and many other posters made was that despite what the OP stated, many women *here at MDC* are very educated, don't take surgery lightly, and undergo it with good cause. They should not then be subject to such labels as "misinformed" because they have surgical births.

I absolutely believe that birth experiences (how we ourselves were birthed.) can effect us in the long-run. Check out the book Ghosts From the Nursery for a lot of research and detail on this. Their tiny brains are firing synapses - the first maps in their brains! If those are maps of pain and discomfort - which is not restricted to cesarean birthing; it can also happen during vaginal birthing - those will be the first recorded cranial experiences. No doubt these are not superfluous thoughts and sensations.

However, this is NOT the only aspect for women, doctors, and partners to be concerned with. While it is ideal for children to be brought into the world in a calm, peaceful manner - it is not always feasible. Yes, Greaseball - it would be nice, and I'm sure we can all agree it is something to strive for - but there are birth emergencies where lives are at stake and children will be born with an air of urgency, nervousness, and rush. Such is a small price to pay for the health and well-being of mother and child. When you say, Greaseball, that the baby should be able to experience labor, I assume you understand that this is not always a possiblity?

OnTheFence - congratulations on your positive cesarean birthing story! They are few and far between, and I commend you for taking an active role in the birth, and for your obvious dedication to achieving a good birth for you and your baby.
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#35 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 12:51 AM
 
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Originally posted by Juice23


For my entire life, I have been suffering from abandonment issues. .... Physical scars heal, but mental and emotional scars last a lifetime.
This is a little T, but relevant nevertheless.

There was a study done in Scandinavia by Dr. Bertil Jacobsen which followed the babies of traumatic births and found a relationship between suicide, the method of suicide and the way the child was born. E.g., if a baby is born through a forceps delivery, and the child grows up with 'problems', suicide through a mechanical means ...

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#36 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 01:02 AM
 
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I am five feet tall. I weighed 109 pounds before I first became pregnant at the age of 25. I worked out and took good care of myself. I had all of my four children at home.

When I went to a mommy'n'me group with my children, I was often the ONLY woman who did NOT have a Caesarean Section. I NEVER told ANYONE there that I had a home birth because the attitude was that anyone who would do that is crazy and dumb.

I went for other reasons so I kept my mouth shut.

That was 23 years ago in Los Angeles, CA. Land of fruits and nuts. I truly think things have become even worse. Doctors who should not be in Obstetrics are there for the $ and to save time and make more $ they practice defensive medicine.

I always as a CCE told my clients to go to a midwife first, and if they needed a hospital and obstetrician, then go, but otherwise, you are not sick, so why go where there are sick people?

"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."
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#37 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 01:06 AM
 
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Applejuice, are you suggesting, that based on a Scandinavian study, that my second child, born using forceps is at increased risk of suicide or "problems"?? Are we to put all our eggs in one freaking scandinavian basket? And is this man some sort of authority? It seems like alot of american studies (on whatever, its just an example) are routinely dismissed, and yet you just put out there a few sentences that stopped me cold, based on what one man said.

Of course, you are certainly within your right to say what you believe, especially since you have no idea who i am, or anyone else is who might be lurking around. I guess I am thinking you believe this study has some merit, or else you wouldnt have said it or quoted the author. Why would you post it, knowing it could upset a mom (like me) who has had a forceps delivery? I mean, my son is now 13 for gods sake, and not a whole lot i could do about it. except feel a bit of fear because of a few sentences you felt had to be said.

Lisa
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#38 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 01:35 AM
 
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When you say, Greaseball, that the baby should be able to experience labor, I assume you understand that this is not always a possiblity?
Of course. Emergency cesareans are a different story altogether. I hope the mother's comfort is considered, though. Open Season has stories from women who were operated on without anesthesia during their emergency c's.
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#39 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 01:48 AM
 
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Originally posted by Greaseball
Of course. Emergency cesareans are a different story altogether. I hope the mother's comfort is considered, though. Open Season has stories from women who were operated on without anesthesia during their emergency c's.
Which I would gladly go through if it was a true emergency and my baby's life was on the line.
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#40 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 02:35 AM
 
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I am going to comment some more, of course!

I will share a little about my first csection that was necessary. It ended up as an emergency but I had unluckily had the cath in my back for an epidural or spinal when the dire need arose to cut me and get my baby out. They gave me a spinal, wheeled me in and began to cut. I could barely breathe. The medication had gone too high into my chest and unfortunately did not affect my abdomen at all. So I felt the whole thing. I was screaming for them to knock me the F out. I called them every name in the book. I have been told they never heard such vulgar hateful things come out of a woman before. They couldn't knock me out due to it going to high in my chest and it affecting my airway. Lovely. So they kept injecting demoral into my IV during the suturing stage. (which seemed like forever) My husband got into a fight when they hit 150milligrams of demerol with the Anest. I got a total of 250 in less than 45 minutes. I heard one of the doctors say "we are going to keep drugging her until she stops screaming" Then they gave me amnesia medication. Too bad it didnt work. I would love to have forgotten what happen in that surgery room. Instead I spent the next 12 hours in a drugged stupor, not remembering my daughter or the first time I nursed.

When I did become fully aware of all that happened in that room - I felt like I was a story in Silent Knife. I wanted to die. I spent the next 9 months having PPD, nightmares, and recovering from a 1hour and 15 minute surgery to deliver my baby. There were many reasons this nightmare happened -- part of what happen is from choices I made, and having a doctor that was green and not experienced with the type of uterine deformity I had, and a guy who in a rush did the dosing of my spinal wrong.

You can probably understand why I needed to plan my next csection. I wasn't willing to change going into labor and getting shit on again by unskilled professionals. Especially since all through my last pregnancy I dreamed they did my csection on top of a concrete slab in the cemetery near my family plot.

And my last experience was wonderful. I would do it again and again. I was in the OR 30 minutes. I was in no pain. I had my mental faculties. My last csection was a breeze. It wasnt a horror story, it wasnt a Silent Knife story -- it was the closest thing I was ever going to get in my idealist world.
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#41 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 02:36 AM
 
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Right now I say I'd go for it, but if I were truly there I doubt I could make myself do it. I believe in putting oneself through extreme suffering to save a child's life, but I don't know how I could make myself do it...the women in the book were strapped down. One woman successfully sued her doctor. The nurses were telling the doctor that the patient wasn't under, and the doctor refused to believe them. The anesthesiologist was standing right there, telling everyone that the patient already had enough drugs. The doctor even yelled at the patient to "stop breathing like that!" Finally, after the surgery, the anesthesiologist put her to sleep!

It's a story that makes me cry each time I read it.
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#42 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 02:44 AM
 
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Natural childbirth isn't always taking mothers into consideration and they arent always wonderful. I have read enough of these forums like mothering and on AOL, not to mention books that describe some pretty horrific horrible vaginal births, natural ones at home too. Traumatic for mom and baby. It can happen in any scenario. I am not anti-epidural for this reason. (I wouldnt say I am pro epi either for the record)

Also in emergency situations mom isnt always considered, its thinking -- lets get this baby out before it dies. One of my dearest friends had a necessary csection three months ago. She had planned a natural childbirth. When her water broke we were so happy, she wanted to wait to go to the hospital, her husband insisted they go to the hospital. So they went. We chatted on the phone after she got there. The next call I got I was floored. My friend had an emergency csection. She had a footling breech baby, the heel coming out of a partially dilated cervix and then with some contractions while they were preparing her for a regular csection she got a prolapse cord. She was knocked out cold and cut. When she woke up she didnt even realize she had had the baby.
But her baby is alive! and that in the end is what is important.
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#43 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 02:49 AM
 
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Greaseball from what I was told they had to bring in additional people to hold down my legs. My arms were strapped down. One nurse told my sister that the other laboring patients could hear me screaming and cussing. The whole time I was screaming I could feel them and I was in paid. One of the doctors kept asking me are you sure its pain? I said "F-ing bastard, I feel your GD hands in my body pushing my damn guts back in". I was hacked up. I would do it again to have my daughter but there was a reason my second child was adopted and we didnt pursue infertility treatment.
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#44 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 02:58 AM
 
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Didn't they even try to put you to sleep? If it was a true emergency I would want to forget all about being awake to see the baby. Maybe even if it was planned, I'd still just rather be asleep. I hear it's much worse to recover from spinal or epidural anesthesia, and that with an epidural you are more likely to feel some of the surgery.

Never had any surgery though, so I wouldn't know.

Glad it worked out for you, though it's too bad it had to hurt.
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#45 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 11:59 AM
 
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There is a higher risk of GA than a spinal or epidural during childbirth. Actually more death occurs and other complications. I was never offered to be put to sleep, its not something I would have opted for. Once they administered the spinal, they believe it will only affect from up under your breasts down and it only last for 45minutes to an hour. My spinal did not do right, it moved into my chest and was as high as my shoulders. Because of this I could not be put under and because they remove the cath I was not able to recieve anymore pain relief into my back. Had I had an epidural -- this could have been done. This is why I opted for an epidural the second time around.

My csection truly was an emergency. I already had the cath in my back to administer the spinal when the chit hit the fan or else I would have been knocked out. Which I would have preferred for that csection.
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#46 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 01:50 PM
 
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Wow, passion strikes again here at MDC. In reading the latests posts a lot of thoughts are traveling through my head. I'll do my best to make them coherent .

My personal beliefs about pregnancy and birth - what goes on during them can have tremendous impact on the psyche of the infant. Lucysmama mentioned Ghosts in the Nursery. That's an eye opener for sure!

I do believe that vaginal birth is the ideal in a perfect world that supports women's connection to their bodies, women's knowledge of their bodies, women's wisdom, honors and trusts women's ability to pass through the journey of labor and birth in each women's unique way. In a world that is not complicated by anatomical abnormalities such as funky uteruses or babies with fragile bones, etc. (and yes I do believe the "your pelvis is too small/your baby is too big" line is waaayy overused - how about your doctor/midwife is out of their comfort zone and doesn't know how to help you being used instead?). I believe that c-sections are overused. I believe that a lot doctors are motivated by politics, fear, the almighty clock, attorneys and money. I believe that many mother's fall into the trap of fear that doctor's weave. I believe that women are far more strong, capable and wise than we give ourselves credit for. I believe that there absolutely are times when c-sections are necessary. I believe that there are more unnecessary c-sections than necessary.

I know that I, were I a mother, would want to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I had made the best possible decisions for my baby and myself regarding pregnancy and birth. I would not want to be told that I "should've" done something different. I would want to be supported for the decisions that I made. And yet. At what point can we honor the decisions we made at the time, with the knowledge we had at the time, respect that, and still hold space for the possibility that we may know something different this time around that would result in making different choices should we be faced with the same situation? And still know that we did the very best we could under whatever circumstances.

It saddens me to no end to hear stories of traumatic births - vaginal OR c-section. To hear of women that are so traumatized by their previous experiences that they would rather not have another child. I personally know women who have been through this. It is tragic to me. It is a crime against women that we should be anything less than fully supported, informed and cared for during this most sacred time of giving birth. And it saddens me that so many women have lost the story of birth. That we have allowed this to happen. That we have given away our power to the shrine of modern medicine. Where is the balance?

Thank goodness there is also the swing of the pendulum to reclaiming our power. To educating ourselves, to connecting to our inner knowing, to aknowledging our fear and feeling beyond it. To integrating the best of western medicine with the wisdom of women. Does that mean only vaginal births will be done? No, of course not. Does that mean c-sections will be done more humanely, with more consciousness of the impact of the event on both mother and child? I hope so, and I am greately encouraged by stories that reflect this. Does this mean vaginal births will be done more humanely, looking at what is important for the mother and child rather than the comfort of the doctor/midwife? I hope so, and again am encouraged by stories that reflect this.

In regards to the Scandinavian study. I think it is extremely important that we realize that it was not limited to c-section babies and is not saying there's an increase in suicide among c-section babies. The method of suicide is what's being looked at not the likelihood of suicide. I'm sure we all know vaginally birthed people who committed suicide. Let's not create another guilt wagon for people to get on over their births.

And last, but certainly not least, I'd like to comment on Juice23's original post. While I certainly cannot speak for her, I have had the privledge of discussing this topic at length with her because we are personal friends. In her situation, her mother was induced because it was assumed she was post-date, when it showed after the fact that the doctors were grossly wrong in that assumption. A failed induction led to a c-section with general anesthesia which meant that there was no contact between mother and daughter for hours. Do I believe that being forced from your home, from all that you'd known for 8 1/2 months, "welcomed" into a cold brightly lit world by strangers, whom however kind and nice could not possibly be any replacement for your mother, and left by yourself for hours did not have an impact on how you perceived the world? Please tell me how it could NOT. Do I believe there's a way to integrate and move forward with this experience? Absolutely. As with any traumatic experience that we have in life. But how can you say that other experiences of an infant such as circumcision, illness, crying it out, etc., etc., can be traumatic (and research shows these have a negative effect on the chemical cocktail of our bodies that has an impact on the wiring of our brains) and say that our births don't have this impact?!

No, we don't all get our "ideal" births - for a variety of reasons, no matter how educated, prepared, healthy, strong, etc. The outcome of our births is only partially in our hands. And the more I think about all the outside influences on women's births, the more my head spins. But aknowledging the impact of our births on ourselves and our children can go a long way towards healing and mending the bumps in the road.

I don't understand why we tend to buy more into doctor fear than into other women's experiences. I don't understand why women elect to have c-sections out of schedule convenience or out of fear of saggy vaginas. The hoopla of elective c-sections as a valid option for non-medical reasons really astonishes me. Having recovered from abdominal, uterine surgery recently I can only imagine the additional challenges being post-partum and trying to be present for my infant would have posed to my recovery. It was challenging enough as it was.

Afterwards my surgeon said I absolutely must have a c-section. Well, you can bet for a number of reasons I did my own research. Funny thing is, for all the women who've had my surgery (and granted, it fortunately isn't all that common) for those who were "allowed" to birth vaginally, there are no documented uterine ruptures. Now explain to me why physician "theory" outweighs documented, scientific real life experience? Explain to me why my doc is willing to have my undergo, yet again, major abdominal surgery, that will only put me at increased risk for uterine rupture? So yes, I'm extremely skeptical of doctor's advice. I had an awesome surgeon, he did a fabulous job, I am incredibly grateful to have found him. But in the end, my birth choices will not be made based on his recommendation.

I guess that's what I wish for all women - take in your doctor's information, get other opinions, read, read, read, talk to other women, learn from their experiences and then when it's all said and done go inside, get quiet with yourself and discover what your truth is. Obviously that's not something that's as possible in an emergency situation. But hopefully we'll have made that connection along the way before an emergency arises.

I know I've written a book, so will try to sum up. Whether our children enter the world vaginally or via c-section may it be done respectfully, may the sacredness of birth be honored, may fear be aknowledged but not overblown, may we aknowledge the impact of our choices on ourselves and our children, and may women take back their births.

peace,
LisaG

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#47 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 03:15 PM
 
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Well put, LisaG

I don't know if this was a rhetorical question or not, but you asked why women tend to buy more into doctor fear than other women's experiences. An excellent question.

In my situation, it was so very difficult to see thtough the bullsh*t that the doctor was piling on top of me. Doctors know how to play into a laboring woman's inherent vunerability and use that to their advantage. In my case it was, "We can section you now or wait until it is a true emergency and your baby's life is at stake." I was paralyzed by those words...most mothers would be. Nobody should ever speak to a laboring woman in such a manner! I was so paralyzed, in fact - I couldn't even stop to consider if what he was saying was inevitable and true. I didn't realize that the baby showed no signs of distress, that I was absolutely fine, if naturally tired.

Then came another blow: "If you were my daughter, I would section you for your safety and your baby's safety."

I was educated, informed, no shrinking violet, but when a doctor starts playing that card- the whole, "We-are-going-to-save-you-or-your-baby-will-die-and-it-will-be-your-fault" card, it is *so* hard to remember all you have learned about birthing, labor, cesareans. You are being threatened with a dead child.

Tragic? Yes. Manipulative? Yes. Uncommon? No. * But that does not mean that these women are uneducated or uninformed. It means they are human, and reacted emotionally to the threats of bullies. * Unless you have been in this situation before, I really feel you can't know what I am talking about. It is a long, guilt-ridden, heavy road to walk. I might have been bullied, but I was never misinformed about cesarean, birthing, hospital beaurocracy, etc. I'm not perfect, and I don't deserve to be judged for that.

LisaG, I agree with most everything that you said. I don't know about other posters, but I was never trying to impune or dispute the OP's issues surrrounding birth. Again, I think why this thread took off heatedly is due to the overgeneralization of we MDC c/sec birthers as misinformed.



Juice, I hope you can come to terms with your experiences someday.
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#48 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 03:56 PM
 
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My half-sister was born 3 mos early by c-section. She had to make up those 3 months in the NICU. She did not suffer abandonment issues, and I believe it was because she was never abandoned - her mother insisted on staying in the hospital the entire time, even though she did not need any more treatment. She had a job, and another young child, but stayed anyway.

I think the kind of care the mother is able to provide is a factor. If I am in pain and exhausted and afraid my guts are going to spill out, I'm not going to be as effective. I think all moms should have help available if they decide they need it. Some moms feel fine after a few days post surgery, but some are in pain for a long time and have no support.
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#49 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 04:23 PM
 
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Doctors know how to play into a laboring woman's inherent vunerability and use that to their advantage. In my case it was, "We can section you now or wait until it is a true emergency and your baby's life is at stake." I was paralyzed by those words...most mothers would be. Nobody should ever speak to a laboring woman in such a manner! I was so paralyzed, in fact - I couldn't even stop to consider if what he was saying was inevitable and true. I didn't realize that the baby showed no signs of distress, that I was absolutely fine, if naturally tired.
Absolutely!!!!! I think it would be next to immpossible to hear words like that and find the strength/courage/ability to swim against that tide. It goes against our very nature to be told we/our baby are at risk, here's what you MUST do, and find the state of mind to stay calm and ask questions in the middle of labor no less?!?! Which has led me to my personal conclusion that labor and birth is usually best done OUT of the hospital , with someone (even if that's only yourself - if that's what works for you) who is really comfortable being with a laboring woman. I think it's really a rare find to have a hospital and doctor who can truly support labor and birth in its multifaceted form.

For me, the uneducated and uninformed piece seems to jump out at me more in the case of elected repeat c/s or in elected non-emergency first c/s (like in the case of a certain celebrity who planned on having an elected c/s because it would be too inconvenient for her husband's work schedule ). I know I'm not willing to undergo that trauma to my body for my husband's schedule! And yet somehow that all gets overlooked as long as the baby arrives in one piece.

Uneducated/uninformed certainly aren't always the right words. More often than not, it's lack of support and scared into by fear spouting docs. Or scared into by previous experience. I can't begin to imagine (and hope I don't ever have to) the courage it would take to be willing to attempt a VBAC after a traumatic birth. To be willing to trust the process again. And I can certainly understand women choosing to make the best of a repeat c/s rather than journeying the unknown of a VBAC. But it does sadden me that there's so much fear and so little support surrounding most birthing women.

Here's to changing that one birth at a time!

LisaG

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
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#50 of 51 Old 11-15-2003, 06:04 PM
 
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Lisa G great posting. Are you on the Mullerian Anomalies Group on yahoo? If so, I am there in lurkdom.

Kim
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#51 of 51 Old 11-16-2003, 09:30 PM
 
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Hi Kim ,

The mullerian anomaly group was a total life-saver for me this spring/summer when I was first diagnosed . Thank goodness for that group! I stop by on occasion to catch up, but there's so many groups, so little time these days .

Take care,
LisaG

Lisa , married to Dan, mama to IVF miracle Natalie 5/20/09 :
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