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#121 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:47 PM
 
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: Tiffany you're preggers! You better leave the margaritas for someone like ME. Oh wait, darn, I preggers too. BUT I'm due before you!!!
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#122 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:47 PM
 
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Azadeh: I think she meant she can't afford it... so why torture yourself by looking at what you can't have?
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#123 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:48 PM
 
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What about Happy Heiny's and Wonderoos? Did they not take the same concept that she invented, change it a bit and call it their own?
- Wonderoos are licensed by FuzziBunz because they do realize they took their idea for the pocket from them. I think it actually says in their banner that they are authorized by FB or something like that. There logo on the site (http://www.wonderoos.com/ ) also has the FB patent number under it
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#124 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:50 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaTT
Wow so many judgemental mamas here. Sad.
It seems to me that there are many who are, in some ways, looking for ways and reasons to critisize BJM. While there are some valid concerns IMO, on the other hand, it seems like there is alot being critisized that goes beyond that. Every time BJM is discussed here, so many people have so many negative things to say. I wonder if part of it is that while her soakers are pretty, she doesn't fit the typical hyena mold - and her soakers are easy to obtain, so of course, they must be bad in some way. You know, how you have to stalk a WAHM for diapers, and then you can't unload them on the TP - people like the thrill of the hunt, and BJM doesn't offer that, and isn't a part of the CD community.
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#125 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:50 PM
 
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Tiffany you're preggers! You better leave the margaritas for someone like ME. Oh wait, darn, I preggers too. BUT I'm due before you!!!
:LOL I guess I would settle for some virgin strawberry daquiris instead
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#126 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:50 PM
 
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NM.... saw that this was a patent question (RE the pocket diaper discussion)... my bad. Removing my response :
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#127 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mama2kyla
- Wonderoos are licensed by FuzziBunz because they do realize they took their idea for the pocket from them. I think it actually says in their banner that they are authorized by FB or something like that. There logo on the site (http://www.wonderoos.com/ ) also has the FB patent number under it
Oops, sorry! But I don't think HH are, are they?
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#128 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:53 PM
 
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"I think she meant she can't afford it... so why torture yourself by looking at what you can't have?"

LMBO LOL LOL I feel too silly right now for taking that the wrong way... :

Ok. Whew.... LOL That was just too funny.
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#129 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 05:54 PM
 
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Azedah, I can't afford it. I admire her too. Sitting around coveting the unattainable just makes me more materialistic than is good for me, so I try not to do it.
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#130 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lori810
It seems to me that there are many who are, in some ways, looking for ways and reasons to critisize BJM. While there are some valid concerns IMO, on the other hand, it seems like there is alot being critisized that goes beyond that. Every time BJM is discussed here, so many people have so many negative things to say. I wonder if part of it is that while her soakers are pretty, she doesn't fit the typical hyena mold - and her soakers are easy to obtain, so of course, they must be bad in some way. You know, how you have to stalk a WAHM for diapers, and then you can't unload them on the TP - people like the thrill of the hunt, and BJM doesn't offer that, and isn't a part of the CD community.
I view it more as for a group of women that profess to care about working conditions this seems like a valid concern. If this group cares enough to have posts such as "would you buy from a mom that wasn't AP" then I personally think it would matter whether things were really what they said they were. Not jealousy, not scared of a newcomer etc. But simply things don't seem 100% and have several have honest concerns. If others want to be like ostriches and stick their heads in the sand then that is their perogative. I don't mind honest questions about claims from a maker, IMO are worth it.
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#131 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:03 PM
 
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Man, all I can say is WOW!! I am sure I will get flamed but here goes. I feel sorry for the OP. I think she probably just wanted to share her excitement of a cute soaker with us. I think there have been many valid points made here. I agree that it is not ok to steal someones origional design. However I seem to be seeing a lot of finger poining at wahm's that do bee designs etc. There are only so many things you can put on the back of a soaker. There are fads as a pp pointed out. There were several 4th of july soakers out recently. Are those mamas who designed those ripping each other off> I dont think so.

I am a fairly new knitter and to be honest I sometimes feel darn scared to sell my stuff because I am afraid it will be ripped to shreds in posts like these. This forum goes in spurts. Someone finds a new wahm and everyone rushes to try her out and then slowly she gets picked apart and threads like this happen. I really like coming here, but I have to be honest that threads like this really turn me off.

I guess I should add a little side note that NO I dont support sweatshops and I dont support or approve of other hard working wahms ideas being stolen. I just hate seeing people ripped to shreds so easily. Words hurt ladies. Ok had to get that out. I am sure I will regret this later.
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#132 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amicrazyyet
I view it more as for a group of women that profess to care about working conditions this seems like a valid concern. If this group cares enough to have posts such as "would you buy from a mom that wasn't AP" then I personally think it would matter whether things were really what they said they were. Not jealousy, not scared of a newcomer etc. But simply things don't seem 100% and have several have honest concerns. If others want to be like ostriches and stick their heads in the sand then that is their perogative. I don't mind honest questions about claims from a maker, IMO are worth it.
As i said i think there are some valid concerns, but i think it goes beyond that. There have been many posts ridiculing BJM soakers - having nothing to do w/ working conditions.
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#133 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:06 PM
 
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There were several 4th of july soakers out recently. Are those mamas who designed those ripping each other off> I dont think so.
Naw they're ripping off Betsy Ross! : : :

Just kidding. I have to crack jokes because I have nothing meaningful to contribute to this conversation. :
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#134 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lori810
As i said i think there are some valid concerns, but i think it goes beyond that. There have been many posts ridiculing BJM soakers - having nothing to do w/ working conditions.
Thats not cool. If she is in fact totally on the up and up and doesn't have plagarism issues then I don't see anything wrong with her product.
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#135 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:08 PM
 
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Azadeh, I took it that way too at first. I was like, WTFreak do we have to insult KSS Karen for?!?!?! :LOL
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#136 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:09 PM
 
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to Maxi's Mami
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#137 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:09 PM
 
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Also, I'd like to add that some of the concerns that I expressed about BJM HAVE been rectified in the course of this discussion - things about product volume, and the number of workers, and the value of the wage they are getting for their work. All in all, this has been a pretty darn productive discussion.

As for design copying, there is a great deal of check-and-balance in the WAHM community. Many tings are similar, but if you outright copy something, you're gonna get called out on it. Increasingly, WAHM's are beginning to get together a bit more, getting to know each other, and are asking permission (kind of a "do you mind if I" knid of thing) to use certain design elements inspired by others. Because there *are* so mane awesome designs and ideas out there, asking permission is a good thing. Often, the WAHM will say sure, go ahead, so long as it isn't a copy! Sometimes she'll say "I'd rather you didn't, as I worked long & hard on that idea." The point is in the asking.

As for patent issues, YES, some folks do have probelms with pocket diapers that are ignoring or fighting the fuzzibunz patent. Others are going the opposite direction and boycotting the patent-holder and their licensees. It's a big nasty issue, and probably should be discussed elsewhere, because that discussion can get very long, too.
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#138 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chloesmom
Naw they're ripping off Betsy Ross! : : :

Just kidding. I have to crack jokes because I have nothing meaningful to contribute to this conversation. :
Dear Betsy Ross, I sincerely apologize for ripping off your flag design, please forgive me, but it was SO darn cute!

And as for the rest, Butterflymom don't beat yourself up for it it was a very cute drawing, and that is flattering that you liked it so much to want one, you didn't know/think about it, which is the good point of this thread, now you do! and kitty's are cute! I think it is a good point that was brought up and more people will now see that saying "I want a kitty on my pants, I saw these ____" is fine but saying "I want this exact kitty" isn't (unless of course your buying it from the orginal WAHM) And more WAHM's will be able to let their customers know that they can't copy exactly, but a kitty is fine.
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#139 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:25 PM
 
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I think it's www.pocketdiapers.com, actually (but I didn't see a list there).
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#140 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:30 PM
 
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I haven't finished reading the last few pages but I'll I can say is I am so sick of all this diaper drama.It's always something.And since I can't seem to stay away from the diapering community I am just counting the days until my son is out of diapers.

Honestly I can see both sides.I have a custom soaker slot coming up somewhere and I was thinking about copying from other soakers I have seen.I never thought of it as stealing So part me is like so what but then of course if it was my design stolen I would be mad.So like I said I can see both ways.

What bothers me is all the judgements and the rude comments about the OP.All she was trying to do was show off her soaker and now must feel like crap.She is part of our community and I am sad that her thread has turned into this.

Honestly I don't think it is the end of the world.KSS soakers will still always sell for very high prices and I don't think the cactus will be the downfall of her business.

I just wish every little thing did not get blown into a huge deal.Diaper drama sucks and makes me realize how badly I need a life to even be sitting here reading it.
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#141 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:38 PM
 
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"Blues Clues and stuff like that come from huge companies. Copying those characters doesn't do much harm."


"But its still illegal....which still puts the integrity of the person doing the copy into question, which is what I thought the problem with copying is based on this thread"

Wow I have done some hand painted Blue's Clues items , guess I have no integrity.

Honestly all these judgements are so out of hand.No one knows anyones true character by one or two things they sell.
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#142 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:44 PM
 
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Technically, it's also illegal to sell items made from licensed character fabrics, unless you have permission from the license-holder.

I walk a fine line with this issue myself. I often have shirts with logos & characters on them that are perfectly positioned for a diaper cut, so they're used as the outside of the diaper. My rationalization is that #1 The license-holding company has already been paid for the item, since someone bought the shirt for its' image, and #2 I don't charge any extra for diapers with logos/characters on them. But I still don't really know if it's technically "right", yk?
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#143 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:47 PM
 
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Stell, I have the same delimna ... there are so many cute fabrics out there, but so far I make sure they are not marked as "for private in-home use only ... not for commercial use." But when it's a recycled item (for instance a shirt like you have) ... I don't know where that line is drawn.

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#144 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissSugarKane
"Blues Clues and stuff like that come from huge companies. Copying those characters doesn't do much harm."


"But its still illegal....which still puts the integrity of the person doing the copy into question, which is what I thought the problem with copying is based on this thread"

Wow I have done some hand painted Blue's Clues items , guess I have no integrity.

Honestly all these judgements are so out of hand.No one knows anyones true character by one or two things they sell.
It's not really a judgment; it's the law. No one was ridiculing you personally, but it IS illegal to copy someone else's design exactly.
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#145 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:50 PM
 
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I have never seen one of these soakers up close, and have never dealt with this seller, so I can't comment on them in that respect (although I have seen them on ebay many times).

I am an experienced knitter, and they do not look handmade to me. I would like to see one in person, because I feel confident that I could tell you for sure whether they are handmade or knit by machine. If they're done by machine, I resent the misrepresentation.
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#146 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:53 PM
 
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This has got me thinking about licensed fabrics/embroidery/graphic/applique designs - just sharing a couple of links about this:

http://www.embroideryprotection.org/mfgr.html

http://www.sew-whats-new.com/kim/copyrights.shtml
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#147 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 06:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by reader
It's not really a judgment; it's the law. No one was ridiculing you personally, but it IS illegal to copy someone else's design exactly.

Well I thought because I painted them myself it was okay.I didn't use any licensed fabric or anything.I just thought it would be cool to offer something WAHM made with that character for those that didn't like shopping at Wal-mart and such.Whatever I'll go take them down right now.And I am sure lots of other WAHMs are now considering taking down items they made.This is all so stupid.ANd I am sick of all this nit picking at people.I so don't feel this is a loving community anymore.

For what it's worth I have lots of integrity as I am sure the BJMP and other women have.Maybe we are not all legal experts.But it's so nice of everyone to call everybody out publicly instead of just pming or emailing the person about it.
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#148 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 07:02 PM
 
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I agree with Jamie. This community is taking a nosedive big time. I for sure will think twice about what I share here.
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#149 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 07:04 PM
 
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Jamie, you shouldnt take things so personally. My statement was that previously on this thread other people were calling the women who makes the BJ marketplace soakers as being in the wrong, essentially questioning her integrity since she stole a design. I said what I did because the poster before me made it seem like the problem she had with people copying other people was that it could harm business... which seemed like a contraditction to previous posts. I was just trying to clarify/understand exactly what all the previous posters concerns were with copying. It was a general discussion about why copying is wrong, having absolutely nothing to do with any specific person and you shouldnt take it as such. Its not a black and white issue.

I was simply using licenced characters(without any regards as to which ones, just what is seen most often) as an example because those are also someone else copyrighted works.... and its illegal to duplicate them in any manor without permission from the owner (as stated previously in the thread about KSS artwork).
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#150 of 184 Old 07-01-2004, 07:16 PM
 
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This thread is still open?

, , , mama to Ross , Reagan (8/29/05), Joshua (from Haiti...here NOW due to the earthquake!), and Elijah , born safely 9-8-09.
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