Sposies, Sposies EVERYWHERE at a LLL meeting!?!?!?!?!?!? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 02:14 AM
 
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..... She was looking for CD mamas and thought she might find them there. Next thing you know Mamas are giving the third degree on what LLL meetings are for (duh!) ....

... but doesn't it strike you as a bit silly that she went to a la LECHE league meeting looking for CLOTH DIAPERING mamas?

come on now. even you said "duh" about what LLL meetings are for...

from the LLLI website: Founded in 1956 by seven women who had learned about successful breastfeeding while nursing their own babies, La Leche League is the only organization with the sole purpose of helping breastfeeding mothers.

it has nothing to do with AP, nor NFL ~ it's about breastfeeding.

that is what strikes me as so *off* about the OP, and i think that's why so many people are nitpicking on this.

now... i'm leaving the thread, because this is just getting ridiculous.
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#62 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 02:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by klothos
... but doesn't it strike you as a bit silly that she went to a la LECHE league meeting looking for CLOTH DIAPERING mamas?

come on now. even you said "duh" about what LLL meetings are for...

from the LLLI website: Founded in 1956 by seven women who had learned about successful breastfeeding while nursing their own babies, La Leche League is the only organization with the sole purpose of helping breastfeeding mothers.

it has nothing to do with AP, nor NFL ~ it's about breastfeeding.

that is what strikes me as so *off* about the OP, and i think that's why so many people are nitpicking on this.

now... i'm leaving the thread, because this is just getting ridiculous.
Ok, I'm going to make some assumptions here....I doubt Whimsytymes *only* reason for going to LLL was to meet ofther cding moms. I imagine she went for bfing support and was hoping there would be other cding mamas there.

When there weren't she was disapointed. *Many* mothers have posted in diapering that LLL is the one place they often find other mothers who cd (Not that they went specifically looking for other cding mothers). She has a right to feel a bit disheartened to not have the same luck.

Then she came to a diapering forum on and NFL board to share her disapointment.

Seems logical enough to me. Unfortunately it turned into this huge debate about whether she is a diaper snob or not

I guess I just don't understand.
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#63 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lindsaylou
Seems logical enough to me. Unfortunately it turned into this huge debate about whether she is a diaper snob or not

I guess I just don't understand.
From one Lindsay to another:
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#64 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lindsayloo2020
From one Lindsay to another:
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#65 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Lindsaylou
Gotta feel the LindsayLoo(Lou) love: You feelin it?
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#66 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 06:50 AM
 
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When I attended my first LLL meeting was the first time I saw a sling(s) IRL. It wasn't long before I had one of my own.
When I traded on the TP was the first time I saw a CD IRL.
I will be the only mama I know of at my large meeting to be CD my child. That's ok though, I bet I'll have some converts soon enough! But now that you mention it, it is suprising!

Michelle
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#67 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 10:28 AM
 
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I'm so late....but just wanted to say that I can totally relate to the OP.

I was at a mom and baby yoga class this week and I found myself scanning the room hoping to find a CD-ing mama (Didn't. But one mama asked about my dipes and the teacher complimented me on them. ) Of course I didn't go to yoga in search of cloth diapers but it would have been a nice bonus!

I am lucky that there are several CD-ing mamas at my LLL meeting. I don't judge the mamas there who are not CD-ing (and for all I know they CD at home and use sposies when they are out - I have friends who do that too) but I definitely feel an affinity with the CD-ing mamas.

And I understand what the purpose of LLL is but at least in my group we talk about a LOT more than breastfeeding. I'd say the after-LLL meeting (the 1+ hours that we stick around talking after the formal meeting is over) is the best part!

We talk about babywearing and co-sleeping and relationships with our partners and whether or not we are vaxing (and which ones if we are) and which pedi's are AP friendly. I think a lot of us there feel an instant...ahhhhhhh.....I am not a total freak of nature...there are other mamas like me...when we come to the meetings. The first time I went to an LLL meeting it was like MDC in person. I was SOOOOO excited....tandem nursers, slinging mamas, family bedders, CD-ing mamas....oh my!!

So mama I feel your pain and I don't think it makes you a snob....just human. It's nice to be around people that are interested in the same things that we are.

Good luck in your search...

~Erin
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#68 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 11:49 AM
 
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sigh... just how much money & how many years do you have to have spent cding to be able to post anything here other than 'oooh, fluffy mail!' & not be accused of coming from 'outside' to 'attack the regulars'? i was cding when some of you were IN your 'sposies. (my dd was born in '86, so close at least!) and i was a regular in this forum pre-lala. there are probably some people here who don't remember *heather* as mod.

it's pretty clear that the women here (i wouldn't even say 'dissenting', more 'astonished') with alternate points of view to share are cloth-diapering, cloth-diapering supportive mamas. i didn't call anyone a snob, just pointed out that if someone assumed i just didn't know any better & tried to gently educate me about the existance of cloth diapers because they saw my baby in the evil 'sposie, well, depending on their approach, i'd either have a hell of a laugh, roll my eyes, or if they were very sweet about it i suppose we could end up discussing which version of fbs we liked best, lol.

to just bulldoze everybody that says 'hey, wait a sec, didja consider this?' is not a great way to open one's self to learning experiences. and to call fellow cding mamas 'attackers' & portray them as equivalent to ffers from another board coming here to troll bfing, is absurd.

suse
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#69 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 11:59 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lindsayloo2020
Gotta feel the LindsayLoo(Lou) love: You feelin it?
I'm feelin' it
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#70 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:02 PM
 
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Suseyblue - With all sincerety I'm wondering which post you are addressing? I am new here so maybe my question seems silly, but I'm not sure who was attacking or being accused of attacking etc....

I honestly think this whole debate came about because people took the "tone" of the OP differently. Having known Whimsytyme from other posts I took her post at face value. She had a dissapointing experience and was sharing with like minded folk.

I'm just trying to see where you are coming fomr in your post, because I'm not clear what you or who you are speaking of (or about).

Thanks
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#71 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:10 PM
 
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I'm jumping in late, but I totally understand the OP. I go to LLL monthly and the first time I went I looked for cd. I met one mom who uses prefolds and plastic pants. I was hoping that there would be other moms who would understand my obsession. But I am converting a few ladies and that is cool.
And now the leader wants me to bring in my diapers to show everyone that cd have come a long way.
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#72 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Lindsaylou
Suseyblue - With all sincerety I'm wondering which post you are addressing? I am new here so maybe my question seems silly, but I'm not sure who was attacking or being accused of attacking etc....

I'm just trying to see where you are coming fomr in your post, because I'm not clear what you or who you are speaking of (or about).

Thanks
'its just another chance for people to pick on the cloth diaper forum.'

'Why is that whenever there is a slightly "hot" topic, people rush in to attack the regulars of the diapering board??'

clarified?

of course, i was addressing the thread in toto (& the OP), but there are some particulars.

suse
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#73 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:24 PM
 
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Amebt, that's great!

It seems to me that the disagreement here is not about whether it is understandable that the OP was disappointed, or whether it is maybe surprising that more people don't cd, but about the tone of the postings about those who don't share our point of view about diapering.

The judgemental tone, imo, came in with comments about people being hypocritical to talk of feeding organic baby food but not use cloth diapers, because of the chemicals used in disposables. Following that logic, anyone here who injects chemicals into their child along with vaccinations is even more 'hypocritical', or anyone who uses any form of chemical cleaners in their home, or anyone who is not perfect for that matter in any aspect of NFL.

That is not the meaning of 'hypocritical'.

It is simply a fact that almost nobody is perfect in their efforts to live a natural lifestyle. Nobody knows everything, and some people havent yet discovered the facts about cloth diapering. Others have decided that it's not for them, for whatever reason, just as people decide whether or not to vaccinate.

Maybe we are reading the tone of the OP differently, but it would seem to me that a more gentle attitude both IRL and on the boards would be more likely to gain converts. When I go out, I change my dd wherever I need to. If someone asks me about the diaper, I talk to them, but I am no more concerned to 'show off' my lovely diapers than I am to show off that I breastfeed or feed organic foods anything else. Maybe I am misreading the tone of the posts, but certainly to me, they seem overly judgemental of those who havent taken the same paths as ourselves.

And again, nobody is coming here as a disposable user to attack anyone. The posters here, if you read carefully, are also cloth users, but those who are taking a different perspective.

I know I'm in a minority here, as I have been when I have tried to post an alternative view on those terrible disposable users who don't change disposables every two hours, like those at the LLL meeting. But I just don't feel that I can identify with this sort of attitude to those who don't share my own personal views, or condone it by being silent.
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#74 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:34 PM
 
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I guess I am still trying to find a balance of when its ok to speak up loud and clear on a topic and when I should bow my head and be very soft on a topic. Some members are adament that we should vent because this is an AP/NFL board, and others feel we should never vent because someone might get their feelings hurt. I am trying to settle in the middle.

I feel for those who were possible hurt or irked by the OP. I personally was not, but obviously a few were.

Now I can see why more and more people are sticking to "fluff" posts because this is exhausting! I'm sure there will be some learning on my part happening from having posted on this thread. That is why I post on MDC at all! But it does get tiring.

I can see all POV on this thread. But I guess I just feel like I would have to take hours to post if I was to make it so that there was not a person in the world that might be offended.

Its been said over and over agian, and I have changed my POV on the topic a few times, but if we can't vent about the lack of (bfing, cding, babywearing, HB, non-vaxing, no circing etc...) here on MDC then where can we? The OP wasn't out to get anyone....that is why she came here to post her feelings.

Maybe I am way off base, and if I am then I will think long and hard on what everyone has said. I don't think I know it all by a long shot. Just sharing the POV from where I stand at this moment. I will go back and re-read some posts and see if I can pull something else out of what ya'll have said.

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#75 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 12:52 PM
 
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Well, I give the OP the benefit of the doubt, that they she was open and friendly and wanted to chat about CDs. I think a vent is just that - a vent. Accusing her of being rude and deserving of their or paranoid is really mean.

If I post a vent about my DH I dont expect everyone to pop in and say, "Oh gosh, you probably deserved it!" or "I hope you don't talk to your DH the way you "sound" in your post", "Oh gosh, DHs arent perfect, get over yourself!!" etc etc.
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#76 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 01:08 PM
 
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who was offended? who was (least of all, me! lol) protesting the need to vent? i love vent threads, do a search & see my defense of the right to be pissy.

but if i vent, there is a way to present an alternate viewpoint (now, isn't that a gentle way to say 'disagree'? ) without saying, 'oh gosh, you probably deserved it!' i want to hear other people's thoughts, even if they don't always mesh with mine- i already have a parrot.

suse
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#77 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suseyblue
'

'Why is that whenever there is a slightly "hot" topic, people rush in to attack the regulars of the diapering board??'
I said that. I do feel as though the OP and anyone who agreed with her WAS attacked. That's why I said that. I feel very badly for the OP, she was slammed and treated very harshly by some.

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and to call fellow cding mamas 'attackers' & portray them as equivalent to ffers from another board coming here to troll bfing, is absurd.
Wow! That's a pretty big assumption you're making there! Did I say anything about you being equivalent to a ffing troll??? You didn't like my assumption, so why did you make one about me?
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#78 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 02:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Britishmum

"And why are we thought of as less NFL/AP than the rest of MDC? "

Who said that and where? Just because some people thought the OP harsh, doesn't mean that they were saying that diapering regulars were less anything than anyone else.
You did: "Ironically, I understood it that a lot of posters in diapering don't like to post elsewhere because they do not practice many other aspects of AP and NFL, they are just diapering enthusiasts."

Not sure why that is what you understood. The reason I don't participate in many other MDC forums is because I enjoy buying cloth diapers and am looked down upon for being a "consumerist" outside the diapering board, not because I don't practice NFL/AP. I'm not sure, but I think quite a few other mamas who stick to the diapering board feel the same way.
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#79 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:05 PM
 
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HOLY MOLY! Drop it already. I'm sorry Melanie.

This is a CLOTH DIAPERING forum and she was venting about a CLOTH DIAPERING situation, period.
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#80 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:12 PM
 
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i think the implication that anyone saying 'whoa' anywhere in this forum is a troublesome outsider is pretty obvious. it's getting kind of old. i said i understood the desire to show off my pretty dipes; i also think expecting LLL to be an extension of the hyena club is like expecting everyone there to be vegan... that reflects some nfl mamas & some mothers who post here, but not all.

i'd like your honest responses; if every mama there cd'd, but had their kids in a pinned white pf with a plain white pull-on whisper-wrap (and still looked at the OPer like she had two heads for getting gushy about the cute fancy dipes), would there still be such a 'wah! they're not one of US!' feeling of disappointment being generated?

suse

ps and if it 'mean' to suggest (nicely & kiddingly) paranoia to think one isn't invited to lunch because one cd's... um. nobody really would seriously think that, right? that the world is against us for cding, and other mamas hate us? most people are really not that interested in analyzing other mom's choices of bum cover, i think.
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#81 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 03:15 PM
 
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cloth, actually, is often recommended by leaders so that you may know if baby is having enough pees in the early weeks. it can be a great helper for breastfeeding mothers.

our leaders recommend it strongly.

of course almost all the mamas in our group already use cloth.

---
having read this whole thread:

cloth diapering is part of being gentle and respectful to your baby. period. i dont understand how people dont see that.

tabitha

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#82 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 04:30 PM
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You know what, i mothered my child gently and respectfully in all the eight months that i did not use cloth, and continued to do so after. I guess i get where you're coming from with that statement, Tabitha, but i feel that it is perfectly possible to be a gentle and attached mother who respects her baby without using cloth. That's all. I hope that your personal world view doesn't hold that one CAN"T be a gentle and respectful mother if one doesn't use cloth.
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#83 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 04:33 PM
 
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I'm also coming in here late and have not read every single post so I apologize if this has already been beaten to the ground but it seems like the OP was not too far off in wondering why these people are putting their babies in sposies which are filled with chemicals when they are spouting off about their organic lifestyles:

Quote:
I mean these women were sitting around talking negatively about mamas that feed thier babies jarred food. They were talking about all of the CRAP in the jarred foods, including the organic ones. They continued to talk about thier organic diets and how good it was for the bebe.
It appears that these women were the ones who were being judgmental to start with and honestly, if I heard them talking like that I would wonder the same thing.

The OP stated she went to the meeting because she was thinking about becoming a leader and these were observations that she made. It is funny to read how things have gotten skewed in this thread from what the OP originally commented on.

In any case, no, a person should not go to a LLL and expect the mothers there to be cloth diapering and slinging moms but I don't think it is too far off the mark to take a guess that there is a good possibility that there may be a few. Heck, in the LLL's magazine there are even ads for slings!

OK, I just had to add my 2 cents.
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#84 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 04:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ja mama
Breastfeeding and chemicals in jarred food have something in common. They are nourishment being ingested into the child.

Diapers are topical. They may or may not irritate the baby's skin. But they are not ingested.

LLL is there for nutritional support. For how the food goes into the baby, not what type of diaper the leftovers come out into.


While I agree that diaper chemicals are not ingested. Skin does absorb what it comes into contact with. So some of the chemicals and dioxin leftover from bleaching does get into baby's system.
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#85 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 05:01 PM
 
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chemigogo- it is a process. i have learned new ways to be gentle and respectful. not everyone has all the knowledge they need at the time.

but we also have a responsibility to educate ourselves.

Hi, I'm Tabitha. I'm a homeschooling mother of four: ds (11) dd (9) ds (7) ds (5) And I'm expecting a fifth in 2014! Find me at http://www.omelay.blogspot.com
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#86 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 05:25 PM
 
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OK so after all of this I have to wonder if the OP only saw cheap prefolds and gerber vinyl covers would she have been just as dissapointed?

Also if htere had been other cloth diaperers who didn't give a rip about what brand she was using and what style or that it was wool would you still be dissapointed because no one commentedon how nice yours are.

I guess I have never understood the hyena thing non been all that impressed with the expensive diapers and never really cared what someones kid had on thier bum so long as it was working foir them (although I always applaud the choice to use cloth) All I would have noticed if you had been at that meeting was you flaunting your possesions and changing your baby right out in the middle of everything which i consider bad manners and may be why the moms seemed put off by you changing her in the manner that you did, it probably had nothing to do with your choice of diapers.

I have been on this forum longer than most of you (lest you think I am coming just to rip on you), I do remember heather as a moderator, I belive I joined and was thrilled with this forum sometimes along the line of 1999/early 2000 ish, before my second child was born. I stopped coming for a while since this board was so deadfully slow. no more than 2-3 posts on a good day. :LOL

And a general note on diaper snobbery. As cloth diaper advocates it is importnat to mind what you say and how you share. There a certain diaper elitism that goes on and it drives me crazy. I remember the first time I met someone who used something besides prefolds being made to feel like my gerber, polyester spongeing diapers and vinyl pull on pants (which I had been quite happy with by the way) were worse for my baby than disposable. Poeple looking at the set up in disgust, coming here and hearing how yucky they were and how could anyone do that to thier baby. I actually did switch back to disposables after a while because my cloth just wasn't good enough. I was going to give her rashes and heat stroke . . . And then I was told even my prefolds sucked because they were filled with polyester (something I was blissfully unaware of). * years later I am carful to get diapers that are 100% cotton but I still use mostly prefolds and some onesize diapers my friends gave me (I never would have been able to afford them and if Ihad thought they were the only choice for cloth diapering when I started I never ever would have even bothered looking into it further) and i made some nice flannel ones that are cute and simple. But apparently flannel sucks. But I don't care anymore. I have relized what ever absorbs pee works and people have been using non breathable diapers for generations and no one has been tewribly effected yet. I'm OK with system and my children are OK with it but I am ure there are people here who would think "How can she use that" or "that is hardly natrual enough poor baby : " So when you strut your stuff be careful what kind of vibes you are putting off. I understand you want to show off your fluff but please don't do at the expense of someone else feeling bad about not having stuff as nice as you or as expensive as you and careful that you don't come off making cloth diapering look so expensive and complicated that they shouldn't even bother.

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#87 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 05:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lilyka
OK so after all of this I have to wonder if the OP only saw cheap prefolds and gerber vinyl covers would she have been just as dissapointed?
Why has this turned into a prefold vs. hyena dipe debate??

The OP was disappointed that she didn't see CLOTH. She never said she was disappointed about not seeing hyena dipes. I'm not the OP, but I think she would've been happy to see another mom who was educated enough to not use disposables no matter what type of cloth it was.

ETA: sorry to keep this going ChristinaB.
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#88 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 05:50 PM
 
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I converted to cloth after seeing cloth at LLL.

I went to LLL this week and *expected* to see cloth there. And I did!

I don't think it is wrong to expect or hope to see cloth at LLL.

I also go for the bf support and the social aspect. All of it.
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#89 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 06:08 PM
 
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Good post Vkbrebs and Kimberly...

Very good observation Kellie!!!!! Don't be sorry, you're not missing the point of the post. I find it pointless to keep going on and on about this though... can I say it again? CLOTH DIAPERS
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#90 of 166 Old 08-07-2004, 06:11 PM
 
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I was just asking. She made a point of mentioning hyena dypes specifically and wanting to show them off (and my definition of hyena dipe is anything over $12 dollars) so I was wondering if she would have felt the same let down if there was no one to go gaga over the her dipes. Was it just that she wanted to see the world in cloth or was it that she wanted someone to sit and chat about diapers with. Both neutral, just wondering.

And I was just commenting on the whole diaper snobbery thing because it always crops up in posts like this and then then people pretend it doesn't exist or doesn't see how it hurts diaper advocacy. And a diaper advocate is the the best you can hope to be in a room full of non-cloth diapering mamas.

The truest answer to violence is love. The truest answer to death is life. The only prevention for violence is for the heart to have no violence within it.  We cannot prevent evil through any system devised by mankind. But we can grapple with evil and defeat it, but only with love—real love.

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