Re-selling for more than retail... - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 01:48 PM
 
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ok- back to the real estate argument....

For those of you who compare reselling diapers to real estate, if a friend wanted to off-load a nice chunk of property and you made them an offer below market value that they accepted, and then you turn around and resell for quite a bit more than you paid them, is this okay? Is this just business or is it cheating your friend out of $?

It comes down to the "don't mix business and friendship" rule. Some of us treat mdc like a community of friends, others see it as a way to make a buck.
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#62 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 01:50 PM
 
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I personally would not list it on the TP for higher than I purchased - but that's just me. I have put stuff on Ebay that I got more $ for than I paid (and even over retail) but my starting price was very low. After the initial small pang of guilt, I quickly got over it and bought new fluff, :LOL

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#63 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 01:52 PM
 
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I forgot to add that I would definately be willing to pay above retail to have something that I really want (need), ok want.... :LOL

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#64 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 01:56 PM
 
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I haven't read this entire thread because I need to get off the computer, but I wanted to chime in. If I am repeating something someone else said then forgive me.

A WAHM puts alot of time and effort into her products and tries to ask a fair price for them. Often she is not making much of a profit at all. It just hurts for her to see a diaper she just sent to the owner selling for more than she sold it for. I just don't think it is fair at all to the WAHM. Someone else is making her profit that she would be flamed for if she charged $30 or $40 for brand new.

I understand that people are willing to pay for it, but in all seriousness. Her business would probably be cursed to no end if she tried to actually sell her items for such a high price. They are doing us a favor by offering reasonable prices. I am not about to steal a hard working Mama's wage. It just isn't fair!!

It is hard for me to believe that some people don't understand how this is offensive to a WAHM. Just my 2 cents.
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#65 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 02:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And more on the real estate analogy...

I don't see diapers as property that builds equity. I see them more like cars - they lose value as they are used.

Some hyena items might not lose much value (like a Cadillac would have a higher resale value than a Kia), but they certainly don't gain value, IMO.
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#66 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 04:51 PM
 
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If they did'nt gain value, then people would'nt be paying more for them, would they? I think supply and demand determines a value.

So if a person buys something used for asking price (no haggleing) and sells it for a bit more money, allowing them to make a little money for their family, this is wrong? A wahm makes a profit, so would'nt it make you a wahm if you did this? I mean, if the person selling wanted more then they would have asked for more.
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#67 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by babygirl24
A wahm makes a profit, so would'nt it make you a wahm if you did this?
Um, no. The person doing this is not investing time and money into a BUSINESS that she created from scratch. She is taking someone else's work and making a profit off of it. Not appropriate, IMO.

Yes, in the world of retail where people run legitimate businesses and buy products at wholesale and sell them for retail, it is appropriate. But the WAHM diapering world is not run this way.

ETA: Like stated before, it all boils down to ethics.
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#68 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by lrmama
I wanted to add that this has been bothering me all night. I really worried about the price I was asking, but I didn't want to lose money on the shipping. Does "over retail" include shipping, or not?
I don't want mamas to think I was scalping, or trying to rip off Laura. I got a dipe, it didn't fit, and I sold it for $2 extra above shipping. Is that a problem, considering that I waited over 10 months to get the order? I'm feeling really awful here, and hope no one hates me for this situation...
I dont think its awful -- I think there is a very big difference between someone buying something from a WAHM and trying it or using it for a bit and selling, and someone buying for the purpose of selling. Especially if they buy it from another mama and then turn around and sell it for double.

In my case I dont mind paying over retail for El Bees because of the exact fact that you mentioned earlier. You do all the leg work and wait for the order, etc. Here I come and want a diaper or cover that there is NO way I can get and buy it without a second of waiting. So you make a few bucks on the deal -- doesnt bother me at all!
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#69 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:16 PM
 
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So if a person buys something used for asking price (no haggleing) and sells it for a bit more money, allowing them to make a little money for their family, this is wrong? A wahm makes a profit, so would'nt it make you a wahm if you did this? I mean, if the person selling wanted more then they would have asked for more.
I find this viewpoint simplistic and IMO still wrong. It does not make you a WAHM to buy and sell items that another person made and you do not have a resale agreement with.

The dynamics that go into pricing are typically very complex in the WAHM world. The primary point typically being affordability. Most WAHMs want many people to come to the fluffy side. They want people to be able to buy their items. They will typically put special artistic things at a higher value or auction them since they are special and not made on a regular basis.

Scalping by definition is "someone who buys something and resells it at far above the initial cost" (courtesy www.thefreedictionary.com) Scalping to many is ok. People buy and sell tickets/items at a profit all the time. To others this practice is wrong. In many places it is highly illegal. On ebay you have to offer another item such as a can of beans with concert tickets in order to scalp them. I think it is totally up to your own set of rules and ethics if you think it is ok.

And yes, WAHM's do notice this, they do keep a mental list of who does it. Like Stell pointed out, they also keep track of who doesn't list things as seconds or repaired items on the TP.
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#70 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amicrazyyet
I find this viewpoint simplistic and IMO still wrong. It does not make you a WAHM to buy and sell items that another person made and you do not have a resale agreement with.

The dynamics that go into pricing are typically very complex in the WAHM world. The primary point typically being affordability. Most WAHMs want many people to come to the fluffy side. They want people to be able to buy their items. They will typically put special artistic things at a higher value or auction them since they are special and not made on a regular basis.

Scalping by definition is "someone who buys something and resells it at far above the initial cost" (courtesy www.thefreedictionary.com) Scalping to many is ok. People buy and sell tickets/items at a profit all the time. To others this practice is wrong. In many places it is highly illegal. On ebay you have to offer another item such as a can of beans with concert tickets in order to scalp them. I think it is totally up to your own set of rules and ethics if you think it is ok.

And yes, WAHM's do notice this, they do keep a mental list of who does it. Like Stell pointed out, they also keep track of who doesn't list things as seconds or repaired items on the TP.
Ok...I am personally not gonna express much of an opinion on this but....If you dont wanna buy it for more than the price, dont buy it and if you do great! I dont think we are gonna change anything.

The one thing I did want to comment on and is why I quoted the above thread is....putting aside whether this is right or wrong....I dont fund this scalping. Helloooo.....How do you think people on ebay make a living?? They buy NWT stuff at thrift stores or outlets of sales with overstock and turn around and sell it for 3/4 of the price of it brand new. I still get a deal and have NO idea where they get these CHEAP items SO I could care less....Is this scalping...I think not.

I do agree with Kellie that I wouldnt compare this to real estate but I would compare it to buying a car but at the same time if using the definition from above...wouldnt real estate be scalping than??? So from what everyone says..Its ok for the builder to sell it for more than what it costs to make (which of course is ok) but not ok for the person who owned the thing for awhile to resell it for more than they paid, otherwise its scalping. Im not using the above as a comparison to diapers AT ALL...Im just trying to figure out what would be scalping and what wouldnt??? Any type of retail would be scalping if you used to the above def. I disagree.
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#71 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amicrazyyet
I find this viewpoint simplistic and IMO still wrong. It does not make you a WAHM to buy and sell items that another person made and you do not have a resale agreement with.

The dynamics that go into pricing are typically very complex in the WAHM world. The primary point typically being affordability. Most WAHMs want many people to come to the fluffy side. They want people to be able to buy their items. They will typically put special artistic things at a higher value or auction them since they are special and not made on a regular basis.

Scalping by definition is "someone who buys something and resells it at far above the initial cost" (courtesy www.thefreedictionary.com) Scalping to many is ok. People buy and sell tickets/items at a profit all the time. To others this practice is wrong. In many places it is highly illegal. On ebay you have to offer another item such as a can of beans with concert tickets in order to scalp them. I think it is totally up to your own set of rules and ethics if you think it is ok.

And yes, WAHM's do notice this, they do keep a mental list of who does it. Like Stell pointed out, they also keep track of who doesn't list things as seconds or repaired items on the TP.
How is it that everyone said it is ok to list on eBay and let it get to whatever it gets to, but it's not ok to ask for more. I don't get the ethics or morally right in that.

Technically anything I do in my home to create income makes me WAHM be it right or wrong in someone elses eyes. (I don't do this, but if I did)

And who cares if they "keep track". Not that I agree with listing something as a first if it is a second, but what difference does it make if they have a "mental list"? I don't buy new to re-sell diapers or list seconds as firsts, so this is a curiosity question based soley on my opinion.


Lindsay- ITA!
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#72 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:49 PM
 
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I never said I agreed with the ethics of ebay either. That is outside of this thread though. In the end it is all about consumerism. People can do whatever they want to do. They can buy diaper/real estate/vehicles etc.. and resell them at an inflated price if they like. They can call themselves WAHM's for doing so if they want. None of it makes it fair or good business practices and some of it is against the law. Not that it will ever be prosecuted. It is how it goes. If you want to be esoteric and ponder the ethics of business there are many things that are considered everyday practices yet they can still be wrong. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.

And for the keeping track or mental list, it truly doesn't matter. I do know however, that a WAHM can choose not to sell to someone that consistently does this.
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#73 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:52 PM
 
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Originally Posted by amicrazyyet
I never said I agreed with the ethics of ebay either. That is outside of this thread though. In the end it is all about consumerism. People can do whatever they want to do. They can buy diaper/real estate/vehicles etc.. and resell them at an inflated price if they like. They can call themselves WAHM's for doing so if they want. None of it makes it fair or good business practices and some of it is against the law. Not that it will ever be prosecuted. It is how it goes. If you want to be esoteric and ponder the ethics of business there are many things that are considered everyday practices yet they can still be wrong. Just because everyone is doing it doesn't make it right.

And for the keeping track or mental list, it truly doesn't matter. I do know however, that a WAHM can choose not to sell to someone that consistently does this.
So now Real Estate is illegal. I worked in RE for over 3 yrs...Im sure the agents would get a kick outta that one. Im done now...dont wanna argue with my buds just kinda thought it was funny!
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#74 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:53 PM
 
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amicrazyet, thank you for saying (very eloquently might I add) what I've been trying to figure out how to say!

'just because you can and because other people are' isn't a valid reason to do anything. I guess we can all just hope that others will feel the same way.
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#75 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by momma2emerson

'just because you can and because other people are' isn't a valid reason to do anything. I guess we can all just hope that others will feel the same way.


Can you set a price over retail and will people pay it? Sure. Should you ask over retail? That's a question of personal ethics.
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#76 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 05:59 PM
 
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Okay, one more thing...

There's a difference, if someone actually did some work or something. If you buy a piece of land, and take the time to have it divided into smaller parcels that's one thing. Because, then you've spent money having it surveyed, etc. On the same token, if someone spent months on a waiting list, picked out fabric, and so on, and the diaper didn't fit or something, then I can see selling it for a slightly higher amount. Selling something for 3 or 4x what you paid seems ridiculous.

Taking advantage of someone's generosity is completely different. If you see someone selling something for what they paid, and you quickly purchase it, just so you can relist it at an inflated price is crummy. You haven't actually done any work. All you've done then is deprive someone of a cloth diaper at a reasonable price and acted very un-nicely.

So there.
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#77 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:07 PM
 
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Ok....Lets take my parents for instance. They live in a 5bed/4.5ba home. Its gorgeous. 10 yrs ago....they bought it for lets just say 300,000. Theyve done some decorating and added a pool...but no remodeling really. Homes in that area are now going for 800K+. If they were to sell it for that much....would that be scalping? Once again...not trying to compare this to dipes...Im just surprised people seem to find RE wrong.

As for buying it cause its there only to resell it for a higher value...I guess thats wrong IMO....but to sell something you own for higher than u paid...I may not wanna buy it but someone will...and I just dont see the big deal. Ive passed up tons of El Bees sitting on the TP for 40.00 some bucks. And Ive also snagged some for 28.00 which is still higher than value. Its all about what ur willing to pay!
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#78 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:21 PM
 
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I don't think RE is wrong. What I think is wrong is: buying anything that you have no intention of using just to mark it up and resell it. People who do that are the reason why concerts usually limit the # of tickets one person can purchase to 4 or 6. It is to prevent that sort of thing from happening.
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#79 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:25 PM
 
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I don't have an issue with this. My DH actually makes a living doing this selling video games on eBay. He works very hard going to retail stores and doing research on eBay to see what things are selling and buying them. Listing takes forever as well. As does dealing with non-paying bidders, mailing and all the paperwork.

He's not a theif or a scalper. He is providing a product to someone who may not have access to it where they live, hence driving the price of that item up. Its basic economics.

I see diapers as being the same way. I am a terrible hyena. The worst! So basically the only access I have to hyena items is thru the TP or eBay. Because I desperately want certain items (b/c I'm silly or they work for us, whatever!) and they are not available to me I am willing to pay somewhat in excess of the regular retail. I would GLADLY pay the WAHM in excess of her price to allow me to purchase her diapers, but she doesn't operate that way. Therefore, I have to go via an alternate route.

Take if you will supply and demand equilibrium. This would occur if there were exactly the number of diapers as hyenas. However this is not reality and the demand is much higher on the curve. Notice that if you go higher on the curve, price also increases without supply increasing. A market correction is usually what happens and the supplier makes more at the higher price to satisfy demand. OR the hyenas all become satisfied and demand goes down.

Simple economics of a free market at work here! Now I know some mamas are in favor of a socialist diaper market where there is one price for all and those will money will not have an advantage by being able to offer a more money for a coveted dipe. However, I think this is an neat example of how laws of economics (supply and demand) will always prevail over a controlled market- whether thru price/supply corrections or via the creation of an alternate market (eBay or TP).

I hope I didn't kill the thread! I'm just a big econ buff and things like this excite my nerdy brain!

Now, people misrepresenting diapers on the TP as new when they are used or seconds. That is a different story. That is called lying and is never right. Mamas should always be honest when describing the condition of something they are offering for sale.
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#80 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:30 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Beanie Mama
I don't have an issue with this. My DH actually makes a living doing this selling video games on eBay. He works very hard going to retail stores and doing research on eBay to see what things are selling and buying them. Listing takes forever as well. As does dealing with non-paying bidders, mailing and all the paperwork.

He's not a theif or a scalper. He is providing a product to someone who may not have access to it where they live, hence driving the price of that item up. Its basic economics.

I see diapers as being the same way. I am a terrible hyena. The worst! So basically the only access I have to hyena items is thru the TP or eBay. Because I desperately want certain items (b/c I'm silly or they work for us, whatever!) and they are not available to me I am willing to pay somewhat in excess of the regular retail. I would GLADLY pay the WAHM in excess of her price to allow me to purchase her diapers, but she doesn't operate that way. Therefore, I have to go via an alternate route.

Take if you will supply and demand equilibrium. This would occur if there were exactly the number of diapers as hyenas. However this is not reality and the demand is much higher on the curve. Notice that if you go higher on the curve, price also increases without supply increasing. A market correction is usually what happens and the supplier makes more at the higher price to satisfy demand. OR the hyenas all become satisfied and demand goes down.

Simple economics of a free market at work here! Now I know some mamas are in favor of a socialist diaper market where there is one price for all and those will money will not have an advantage by being able to offer a more money for a coveted dipe. However, I think this is an neat example of how laws of economics (supply and demand) will always prevail over a controlled market- whether thru price/supply corrections or via the creation of an alternate market (eBay or TP).

I hope I didn't kill the thread! I'm just a big econ buff and things like this excite my nerdy brain!

Now, people misrepresenting diapers on the TP as new when they are used or seconds. That is a different story. That is called lying and is never right. Mamas should always be honest when describing the condition of something they are offering for sale.
My father is a PhD in Business and operates the business school at SDSU....this sounds like something he would right and ITA!!!!! Thanks for writing out the facts for us!
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#81 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Now I know some mamas are in favor of a socialist diaper market where there is one price for all and those will money will not have an advantage by being able to offer a more money for a coveted dipe.
Oh dear God, that is NOT me! :LOL Far from a socialist and I totally LOVE buying fun expensive diapers when I can! I also agree that what your dh does is provide something to someone who would not have access to it otherwise. For him, it is a business.

BUT, I just still see the TP as a special community and buying diapers with the intent to sell them for more money HERE (not ebay - that's another story) seems unethical to me. Even buying them with the intent to use them, but finding out they don't work and selling them for profit still seems unethical.

I don't have a concrete reason for why *I* think it is okay in other markets (real estate, ebay), but inapproriate here. It's just the way I feel, KWIM.
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#82 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:36 PM
 
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I just think if a mama can sell it for more because of demand and probably needs the money/income then I just don't have a problem with it.
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#83 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:38 PM
 
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I've thought about this thread and something else came to mind. Sometimes there is a situation that necessitates people selling diapers for profit. I'm not talking about selling just to "make money" but selling to pay bills, buy something else that their family needs, etc. My own small example is this: I had an opportunity to purchase a brand new Kiwi Pie for Lexi on the TP. I fell victim to the "it's so gorgeous, I'll just save it a bit longer and pet it but not let her pee in it " syndrome, and it sat on the shelf. Then I needed to fund a purchase to help a friend out. My diapers are my only real "liquidatable" (I know I made that word up ) asset. I can't take $$ out of the house money sometimes to pay for other things, so sometimes I resort to selling in-demand items for cash. I put the KP on ebay, knowing that market value would give me a bigger return, because I needed it. The mama who bought it is happy, I'm happy because I got to help someone who means a lot to me (but sad because I don't have the KP anymore- but I was too chicken to use it anyway). I also recently sold 3 Kiwi Pie covers that weren't working well for us anymore (size-wise) on the TP and through a private sale here on MDC for very small amounts of $$, compared to the market value, because the mamas really wanted them and couldn't afford what they would have brought on ebay and one of them helped me out with another stocking of sorts.

Anyway, just wanted to remind everyone that sometimes selling for a profit isn't about trying to take advantage of the "community" aspect of the diapering mamas here- sometimes it's about needing money. Just my .02

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#84 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:39 PM
 
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BUT, I just still see the TP as a special community and buying diapers with the intent to sell them for more money HERE (not ebay - that's another story) seems unethical to me. Even buying them with the intent to use them, but finding out they don't work and selling them for profit still seems unethical.
I see your point about the community and not doing it here, but what about when a mama sells something in EC on TP well below a reasonable price? I have not seen it often, but I have seen it. She doesn't say it is a gift or out of generosity. Is that just assumed?
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#85 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 06:43 PM
 
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I understand Kellie...

I'm such a geek, but I have been following this thread and thinking about it all day! CDing is such an INTERESTING study in economics and marketing. Nearly all of the business done by WAHMs is via word of mouth (WOM) with little investment in traditional forms of advertising. That is AMAZING! I am hard pressed to find another product that is like that.

And the hyena-effect economics make this a terrific microstudy in monopoly economics... especially since most WAHMs do not charge nearly what the actual equilibrium price would be. Just facinating! :
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#86 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 07:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by natesmommy126
I heard it said in this thread that the WAHM needs to raise her prices. Probably true. Goodness knows we could all use an extra buck or two. But, what if they all do that, and then you can't buy a handmade diaper for less than 25.00-30.00? Then, you have driven up the prices so high that some people will never own a WAHM diaper because they can't afford it. That would be horrible, IMO. I know most WAHM's aren't in this to strike it rich. They want to offer cloth diapering to those who choose to do, and in a cost effective manner. And, most of all, they want to do so while raising their children.

I think that it would be awesome if all the hyena dipe makers would raise their prices way high. Not only because obviously these poop holders are very desirable and important to some and the wahm would make more money, but also because this would increase demand for newer wahms, who sell their dipes for below what they are worth because they have to, to get sales.


I don't think it's wrong to sell for more than what you paid for it. If people are willing to pay, and you need the money, then why not?
I do think it's wrong if you're taking advantage of someone, as some posters have mentioned.
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#87 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 08:01 PM
 
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That's all I was really ever trying to get across. Just don't take advantage of people. I know some people need money and you do what you have to do. And, if there's that much of a demand for serious hyena dipes, then the whams making them should jack up their prices. They deserve to get more, if people are willing to pay it.
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#88 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 08:29 PM
 
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Hyena dipes are an interesting study in economics... it would be fun to get an economics professor interested enough in the subject to make it a research project for a class.

My business-minded opinion... hyena diaper-wahms would do well selling their products exclusively through auctions so consumer demand can dictate the proper selling price for a new product. Then the wahm would be assured a fair market price for her product. If the product increases in value and sells for more than the original price later on, obviously there is still plenty of demand to fuel her current sales.
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#89 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 08:58 PM
 
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don't have an issue with this. My DH actually makes a living doing this selling video games on eBay. He works very hard going to retail stores and doing research on eBay to see what things are selling and buying them. Listing takes forever as well. As does dealing with non-paying bidders, mailing and all the paperwork.

He's not a theif or a scalper. He is providing a product to someone who may not have access to it where they live, hence driving the price of that item up. Its basic economics.

I see diapers as being the same way. I am a terrible hyena. The worst! So basically the only access I have to hyena items is thru the TP or eBay. Because I desperately want certain items (b/c I'm silly or they work for us, whatever!) and they are not available to me I am willing to pay somewhat in excess of the regular retail. I would GLADLY pay the WAHM in excess of her price to allow me to purchase her diapers, but she doesn't operate that way. Therefore, I have to go via an alternate route.

Excellent point mama!!!!!!
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#90 of 130 Old 09-09-2004, 08:58 PM
 
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I dont see a problem with it either. I mean why is it mean or not nice? I dont really see it as taking advantage of someones generosity - they arent giving you money - they are getting something in return.

Regarding ebay -
Why is listing it on the TP so different than selling by auction - just cutting to the chase, YKWIM? If anything, I am sure some hyenas are happy to see a fixed price and the opportunity to snatch it up as opposed to ebay.



Maybe I am in the dark, but are there really mamas who regulary do this? I am on ebay and the TP A LOT and have not noticed. Anyone else??

ETA:
Regarding WAHMs -
They should raise their prices. Really. I dont want to think of anyone "doing me a favor". I think all WAHMs should charge fair price for thrie time.
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