UPDATE #37 Is she allergic to urine or what?? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Mamas I have struggled with cloth diapers with Nitara since her birth. We have a few weeks of happiness and no problems, and then she gets a reaction to urine again. Her bm rashes are not a problem anymore b/c I can link it to a food she's eating. However she seems to be allergic to her urine (or something??).

I've tried fleece, hemp, cotton, you name it, and it doesn't really help long-term. Sometimes she has the rash, sometimes not. When she gets it, it's bad. It's like her bottom gets burned and soon sores open up and bleed.

Her diapers are stripped, washed in SportsWash, no build up. She's changed often, esp. when she starts getting rashy again. I am just so dicouraged.

Last week I was feeling very, very run down and feverish and dizzy, and Nitara's teething and extra demanding on top of it. I took it easy with housework and did no laundry, and easy cooking. I just wanted to rest as much as possible. I ended up coming down with a UTI on Friday so that's what it was all week. I put her in sposies for a few days to avoid laundry.

Today I was feeling a little better thanks to dh taking over the kids and work all weekend. I got out the fluffy cloth again. As soon as she peed she started to cry and pull at her diaper. I took it off and she was bright red where the urine touched her. I wiped her and put a fresh one on her and after she peed again an hour later I took the diaper off and she now had a raised red area, almost like an allergic reaction or burn. I knew that the next one would cause open sores (I've been through this so many times!). The diapers smelled strongly of ammonia even though they had not sat wet for more than a few minutes. Could teething cause her urine to get strong like this?

Abi, my dd1, was rash-free for most of her diaper days. I wish I could say the same for Nitara. I just put her back in a sposie and checked her before bed and her skin is almost back to normal. I have bought and sold many systems and the rash just comes and goes no matter what. I don't know what makes it come and go. This was even going on when she was purely tube-fed hypoallergenic formula, so it wasn't what she was eating.

HELP! I need ideas and thoughts. I don't want her in sposies. They are saggy and nasty, not to mention expensive and wasteful. It was so gross yesterday, she peed and the sposie started hanging out one side of her shorts. I feel so, so strongly about using cloth but I need to keep her comfortable, too.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#2 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 12:45 AM
 
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If her urine smells really strong right after she pees, I'd put in a vote for build up. You could try a test with a brand new diaper and see if it is the same. Maybe it's your washer? Not sure what to say.
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#3 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 12:47 AM
 
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is there any way to get her urine tested and see just how acidic it is?? What about OV topped prefolds or all organic fitteds??
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#4 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 01:01 AM
 
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I hope you can figure it out. We're battling the same rash you describe for the first time ever. I know what you mean about not wanting sposies.
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#5 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 01:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zexplorers
is there any way to get her urine tested and see just how acidic it is??
:

Your pediatrician could probably do the urine test in his/her office! It would be good to see the doctor to rule out any medical issues. My DD's doc is amazing... He can look at a rash and name the problem right then and there! Doctors see so much in their practices, they know what to look for and what questions to ask.

I hope that you get an answer/solution soon!

Laura
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#6 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks mamas. I will bring it up at her next appt. on Oct 8th. She goes in for a weigh in once a month. She was suspected to have a UTI once but the urine test came back normal. Same symptoms.

I can't afford to buy more diapers. I was hoping her Toddler IPF would last until PT. I have a few fleece liners but they don't seem to help. They just make her sweaty.

I will go ahead and do a strip wash in the AM and see if there are any suds. Stay tuned. . . .

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#7 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 02:20 AM
 
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nak

can you sew or know someone who can?? try getting a yard of OV and get some liners from that and see if it helps - a cheap option...
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#8 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 03:11 AM
 
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Is she on neocate by chance?
Logan is on Neocate Jr and we had this same exact problem. I can not guarantee it was the neocate but I highly suspect it. I just changed him to Elecare and no rash yet but like you ours would come and go. So I am waiting two weeks to make sure. But we had the exact same thing...red burned bottom with open sores. Mostly with bowel movements though. I don't know if it is the Neocate itself or just the fact that it is so concentrated.
We also have the strong strong ammonia smell and this is after stripping the dipes many times. Again I keep thinking it can only be the formula??
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#9 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 04:35 AM
 
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My daughter has had bits and spurts where her urine has given her rashes - the only thing that would help was vaseline on her skin so that the urine wouldn't touch it. It formed enough of a barrier to stop the rash but didn't hurt the cloth diapers.
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#10 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 05:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAmma
I can't afford to buy more diapers. I was hoping her Toddler IPF would last until PT. I have a few fleece liners but they don't seem to help. They just make her sweaty. I will go ahead and do a strip wash in the AM and see if there are any suds. Stay tuned. . . .
Sorry your Nitara (and you!) are going through this. My suggestion is to seriously consider using diapers differently or even ditching the diapers all together at this point. Diapers are truly a recent parenting fad (say, last 100 yrs, kind of like formula). Before that, diapering (or the lack thereof) was *much* different due to no automatic washers/dryers, unsure water availability, detergents, time, etc.

In many, many parts of the world still today, diapers are simply not used. Instead, the parents/caregivers tune into the baby's signs from birth, relying on signals, frequency, & timing (quite similar to how we learn breastfeeding as a mother/infant team). Thus, the baby learns that the parent will respond to such signals (grunting, fussing, squirming, etc) by offering an appropriate location (for us very modern folk, that could simply be a plastic little potty!).

Anyway, I wouldn't waste any more time or $$ buying different diapers and stripping diapers 10 different ways, etc. Really - spend that time instead doing the initial research of letting your daughter go diaperless for a few hours one day:
* watch for how frequently she goes
* note what she looks like or how she behaves before she pees/poops
* communicate w/ her verbally about what is happening AS it is happening, in a gentle, non-judgemental, matter-of-fact way ("Oh, look! you're peeing - that feels so wet, doesn't it? Let's get you dry and comfy, and then we'll clean up the puddle together. Next time you feel like pee needs to come out, tell me and I'll help you put it right into the potty. You'll stay comfy and dry!"

And after this observation period, then just offer the potty at strategic intervals (like if you notice that she pees 1x/hour, offer the potty every 50 minutes and read a little book while on the potty to encourage her to relax, release). Every pee in the potty is one that WON'T be causing her diaper rash, right? And as long as you do this lovingly, non-coercively, gently (not pressuring or judging), communicatively, it is a wonderful experience for both you and dd.

Oh, and don't be dissuaded by those who say "you should wait - she's too young!" That's a load of hooey. Babies and toddlers have MANY windows of opportunity for potty learning in their first months and years - as a culture, we just ignore everything that comes before 18-24 months. Sadly, the huge corporate pampers/huggies/etc. people have done a VERY effective job marketing their product AND passing on misinformation about children needing to be 2 or older to even START potty learning. While this makes them a ton of money, it is really not the healthiest thing for our kids (actual medical evidence in favor of delaying potty learning to the willful toddler years is non-existent!!!).

ANYWAY, just another voice w/ another perspective. We started ditching the diapers when our dd was 8/9 mos old, and we have NEVER looked back. All of us have preferred it to traditional diapering. DD was potty trained by 23 mos, but prior to that we had many a dry day and had not dealth w/ a poopy diaper for OVER A YEAR! So all poop and most pee was making it into the potty well before the 23 month old mark.

So best of luck to you in finding a solution to your dd's poor rash! If you would like to explore the above approach, it's called EC (elimination communication)
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#11 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 07:06 AM
 
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Miziki, thanks for the tutorial on EC. I've been meaning to head over to the EC board and check it out for myself and try it out wiht my dd(I just worry about out of the house moments.) But actually I'm pretty sure Darshani tried it with her older dd so she's familiar with it. Correct me if I'm wrong everyone.
So my first thought was build-up but you said you are pretty sure it's not that. So I honestly would try to get into a co-op for some organic cotton or organic velour for doublers that you could sew yourself or pay someone a small fee to sew for you. Or maybe try out an organic cotton fitted from the TP for cheap. Maybe it's that she's reacting to the pesticides in teh cotton or hemp because she just has really sensitive skin???? I really really hope that's what this is or it's some other "quick-fix." I can only imagine how discouraged you are with this. I've watched your saga from the shadows since Nitara was born and I know how many problems you've had regarding diapering and her reflux and her tummy button and her rash issues. I also know how committed you are to cloth and I have to say I agree. So many times I've been frustrated by the every 10 minute changes or the many systems that just didn't work for us and dh told me to just go out and buy some Pampers. But I couldn't. They stink, they sag, they don't fit right, they are incredibly wasteful, and they are just so ugly. And man, who wants to wear paper and plastic panties????? Not me. Why would dd? I really want this to work for you so I'm voting for : Best of luck, keep us updated on this!

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#12 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 07:55 AM
 
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You know, I have heard of children who could not tolerate the sportwash. I wonder if that could be the problem. How long have you used that detergent?
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#13 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I did EC with my first child. I actually have a page on my website about it. When she was 12 mos old she lost it all and refused to use the potty after that, although she agreed to do it first thing in the AM. She finally potty learned at age 3.8 which is when she was emotionally ready to.

I have too much on my hands with Nitara's health issues to try EC with her. I did it for a brief period before her health problems started to show themselves. She's 19 mos. and I'll just wait for her to potty learn. She's wanting to sit when we sit, but has yet to go. She's tube-weaning and I don't want to add something else to the mix.

However EC is pretty neat when it actually works for both mom and baby. I saw lots of EC babies in India. I assume they were since they were wearing cotton undies at under a year old.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#14 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicmaj
You know, I have heard of children who could not tolerate the sportwash. I wonder if that could be the problem. How long have you used that detergent?
For months. I have All Free and Clear at home too. But that causes build up pretty quickly. Off to start the strip wash!

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#15 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:20 AM
 
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We had the same thing--my daughter was diagnosed as 'allergic to her urine' by the child dermatologist. The ONLY thing that helped was having some Acid Mantle shipped here (we're in Canada and can't get it here!) and putting a TEENY bit on her and rubbing it in after every diaper change. I would also advise adding fleece liners if you are using anything that has a fleece lining otherwise it might EVENTUALLY cause build up.

Anyway--definitely worth a try--we tried EVERYTHING else including putting her in disposables without luck and this seemed to be the only thing that would stop the spots from turning into ulcers! She has FINALLY potty trained now but this was going on for ages before we found a solution--SO sad for her!

Apparently you can get it at any pharmacy - you may have to ask them to order it in but it only takes a day.

The Acid Mantle is supposed to neutralize the acidity of the skin so it just makes sense (to me anyway!) that it works!

Hope that helps and that your baby gets better!

Holly
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#16 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:40 AM
 
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Darshani, I just had a thought. Do you have a water softener? We don't and my Mom recently got one and I've been meaning to take some diapers over there and run them thru her machine to see if there are any detergent bubbles. As far as I know I don't have buildup but I rememebr Holli saying that she got diapers from mama's who didn't think so either and in her soft water the bubbles just flowed.
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#17 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veggiemommy
We had the same thing--my daughter was diagnosed as 'allergic to her urine' by the child dermatologist. The ONLY thing that helped was having some Acid Mantle shipped here (we're in Canada and can't get it here!) and putting a TEENY bit on her and rubbing it in after every diaper change. I would also advise adding fleece liners if you are using anything that has a fleece lining otherwise it might EVENTUALLY cause build up.
That's exactly what it does! It turns into small spot-shaped ulcers that are open and bleeding. It almost looks like open chicken pox sores. That's about the best description I can think of. This even happened in sposies when she was younger. Once she peed on the changing table and before my eyes her privates turned red where the urine flowed down and off her skin. Her Ped said she had eczema because it never went away fully, but over time and with age it slowly cleared up.

It seems to come and go though, that's the strange part. She can go weeks and then one day she will get open sores from the urine, just like that.

Sposies work better for this than cloth as long as they are changed often, and the expensive ones work better than the cheap ones. Probably has more of a mositure barrier. Hmm . . . it's worth a shot to try the acid mantle cream.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#18 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by zexplorers
Darshani, I just had a thought. Do you have a water softener? We don't and my Mom recently got one and I've been meaning to take some diapers over there and run them thru her machine to see if there are any detergent bubbles. As far as I know I don't have buildup but I rememebr Holli saying that she got diapers from mama's who didn't think so either and in her soft water the bubbles just flowed.
I don't, but I can use some Calgon in a few washes and see if that does anything.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#19 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well they have no suds at all that I can see. I turned up the water heater and then filled the washer with dipes, 3/4 full so they would rub against each other and bring forth more bubbles if there were any. The water was clear even after 5 minutes of agitation. I was kinda hoping this would be the problem because it's a simple fix.

I'll have to get my hands on some OV to try as a barrier. This is just so frustrating and perplexing. But then Nitara has always broken all the rules . . .

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#20 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 12:08 PM
 
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I struggled with the same thing with my son.
He was cd'd for the first 4 months. THen he got a horrible diaper rash after a bout of diarrhea and his skin was never the same again. It took over a month to get rid of the rash and afterwards every time his own urine touched his skin he would get a rash. Drove me nuts. I did switch him to disposables from 4 months till nearly 1 year when I heard about fleece liners. (a pain because I was still cd-ing my other two)
His skin is just super sensitive.
Anyway with my ds the fleece liners really helped a lot, but he is still more prone to rashes after overnight or if the liners have buildup.
In fact right now he is in sposies till a rash clears up.
I dont have any advice for you really but to tell you that you are not alone, and that some babies do react really strongly to their own urine.
For me I wanted to CD so badly, but every time I would put him back in cloth he would get a rash almost right away, so it really wasnt worth it until I found some way to keep the wetness off his skin.
For us fleece squares did the trick for the most part.
joline
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#21 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 12:14 PM
 
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PM me your addy - I've got an OV liner that I can get in the mail to you today - you'll have it tomorrow
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#22 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 01:17 PM
 
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Poor Nitara!
I do want to second switching from sportswash. My 3yo DD would get horrible rashes from that detergent as well as melaleuca's detergent.

You say tho its just when her urine hits her, is she eating solids and/or breastfeeding? It sounds like she has some very acidic urine. My 5mo old DD has been suffering form a rash very similar for the last 2-3 months. It has been my greatest concern with cd-ing her. We partial EC, switched detergents, changed diaper systems everything.

Then I had to do an elimination diet to see if something I was eating was casing her issues. My first thought was acidic type foods such as citrus fruits, tomatoes and anything containing citric acid. That seemed to clear it up but then she would get rashy again when I didn't consumme those. I kept a food journal to try and match a food to a rash outbreak. Milk seemed to be the one thing I didn't have very often but when I did she was rashy the next day.

I've had no dairy for a week now & her skin is the clearest its been in a long time. I put tomatoes back into my diet without any issues.

As others suggest have her urine ph checked and consider an elimination diet for you/her. My 3yo DD also has dairy sensitivites on her skin so I am really not surprised to discover my 5 mth old does as well.
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#23 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 01:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAmma
I did EC with my first child. I actually have a page on my website about it. When she was 12 mos old she lost it all and refused to use the potty after that, although she agreed to do it first thing in the AM. She finally potty learned at age 3.8 which is when she was emotionally ready to.
My apologies for assuming you didn't know about it - most people either haven't heard of it, dismiss it immediately, or are extremely skeptical the first few times they hear about it before it resonates w/ them (we were in these last 2 categories). It sounds like your experience w/ EC w/ your first dc was not the typical experience of most ECers AND perhaps not entirely positive for you guys. I'm so sorry about that and see how it would be frustrating!

Quote:
I have too much on my hands with Nitara's health issues to try EC with her. I did it for a brief period before her health problems started to show themselves. She's 19 mos. and I'll just wait for her to potty learn. She's wanting to sit when we sit, but has yet to go. She's tube-weaning and I don't want to add something else to the mix.
I definitely am newer to MDC than many of you, so I am not at all familiar w/ Nitara's health history. That can definitely add a layer of complexity to making basic parenting choices!!! At 19 mos old, she is already in the early stages of the traditional potty learning phase anyway (vs ECing, though IMO you can certainly apply EC principles whenever you feel she is ready to potty learn). And I can completely empathize w/ not wanting to "add anything to the mix" right now if other major changes are taking place. I only mentioned the EC because I was completely unaware of your dd's health issues AND your already having experience w/ EC.

Please understand that from my underinformed perspective , it just seemed like you had been spending lots of time, emotion, and effort on this diapering/rash issue... and for the average mom/baby pair dealing w/ only that issue (not other more complex health issues!), even part-time EC w/ using diapers as backups or not at all has been a more effective use of time/effort & made a huge difference. I realize you guys are in a totally different sitch - please pardon my previous assumptions - I'm sorry!

I really hope you find a system that works for Nitara and you soon, and I hope the tube weaning goes smoothly.
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#24 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 01:34 PM
 
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Listen for suds in the spin cycle going down the drain. I never see suds in the washer, but I hear them in the drain pipe.
You might also try washing with just baking soda and Borax for a bit, rinsing with 1 c of Vinegar in the 1st rinse cycle (double rinse).
When my dh says the kids diapers stink really strong like amonia, I know it's time to nix the 1T of soap from the diaper's wash cycle and listen during the spin cycle -- sure enough there are suds, lots of them and I've had put them through 2 to 3 wash/ w double rinse cycles just water to get the suds to stop -- talk about a pain in the butt and a pain in our water bill!!!
I really need to just nix the 1T of soap every other week as I've been doing. It isn't worth the water. Hot water and borax should be enough to kill and clean those soiled dipes...
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#25 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just added a whole cup of vinegar to the hot water and I did get some suds!! Not much, but they definitely were not stripped like I thought they were. I guess I just assumed that SportsWash would not cause build up but it did. Maybe it's my hard water. So .. . I'm going to wash at least once more with vinegar and rinse them, dry them, and see if she gets the rash. The big clue was that her diaper smelled like ammonia right after her pee, and that usually signals buildup.

On top of that she has sensitive skin. Most babies probably would not have been bothered by that small amount of build-up. Abi never was. I didn't eve know about stripping until she was older. I used a full scoop for ever wash!

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#26 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 03:22 PM
 
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I was dealing with stinky ammonia smelling hemp recently, and increasing the amount of Sportwash (1 capful instead of 1/2), adding baking soda to the wash (with the detergent), and adding vinegar to the first rinse has solved my problems. I would definitely look into baking soda/vinegar (whether you need both, I don't know). My diapers are coming out of the wash smelling clean now, and they still smell ok after being peed in (with the exception of the nighttime diaper, but that's been worn 12 hours, so I expect it to not smell as good as a daytime diaper). I think I was needing the baking soda to help the detergent do its job, and then I was needing the vinegar to help get rid of the detergent afterward?

I hope you can solve Nitara's rashy problems!

Mama to Tornado Boy (6/04), The Brute (11/06), and Mischief (05/09)... expecting in February '15
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#27 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Then I had to do an elimination diet to see if something I was eating was casing her issues. My first thought was acidic type foods such as citrus fruits, tomatoes and anything containing citric acid. That seemed to clear it up but then she would get rashy again when I didn't consumme those. I kept a food journal to try and match a food to a rash outbreak. Milk seemed to be the one thing I didn't have very often but when I did she was rashy the next day.
She is starting to eat more by mouth and I don't limit what it is. If she wants to try it I give it to her. I thought it was more the bm's that showed allergies/sensitivities, but if you think about it, that stuff may also come through in urine. If I can't get it under control soon and stripping doesn't help, I may start over from scratch with her foods.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#28 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My apologies for assuming you didn't know about it - most people either haven't heard of it, dismiss it immediately, or are extremely skeptical the first few times they hear about it before it resonates w/ them (we were in these last 2 categories). It sounds like your experience w/ EC w/ your first dc was not the typical experience of most ECers AND perhaps not entirely positive for you guys. I'm so sorry about that and see how it would be frustrating!
No need to apologize at all. I'm so glad that EC is starting to catch on. It's a great thing to try and I wish more people would think about doing it if they stay at home and life isn't too busy. My dd1 had some other issues going on that probably made EC not work for her where it might have worked for another child. She is just super sensitive and emotional. When we went to India at 12 mos. old, she also was starting to walk. Both of those things were too disruptive to her routine and EC went out the window.

It was sooo cool to see a 6mo baby peeing and pooping on the potty though, and telling me ahead of time that she had to go. Even my dh got into it. I never imagined that my EC baby would PT so late but oh well. I'm glad she finally did!

I did early EC with Nitara when the rash started and it seemed to help a little. She was good at going in the sink. However once she had her tube it was hard to do EC. She also could not be positioned in the traditional way because it compressed her tummy and made her vomit.

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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#29 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 06:08 PM
 
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Have you solved your dilemma yet?? Mark's starting to get rashy in the diaper area, and his skin has broken out in horrible excema absolutely everywhere. I'm not using any detergent on his clothes and halved the amt in his diaper laundry, but he's still in horrible shape. I sooooo wish we were bf'ing so I wouldn't by trying to chase down this potential allergy that's causing all these problems......OT,sorry.....

Do you think that washing in just hot water and vinegar is enough for dirty diapers??? Have you tried it? Mark EC's for me really well, so we rarely have any poopy dipes, just wet ones.
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#30 of 42 Old 09-12-2005, 06:34 PM
 
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Yes food intolerances can come through the urine just like BM's. Like I mentioned we get it from neocate. But he also gets it from foods. Through urine and bm's.....open, ulcerated, bleeding sores.
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