So why is it Art? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The fuzbaby stuff is what I'm asking about. She calls them chilipeppers but they seriously just look like green dipes to me? I dont get it. Is there something that I'm missing here?
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#2 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:17 AM
 
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Well, art is subjective... you see green dipes, I see green peppers w/ seeds. kwim???
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#3 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes I understand that art is subjective But I really think that the woman who owns Fuzbaby.com is one really good salesperson! I wish I would have thought of that! $100 for a green diaper because I say that its a chili pepper! Thats soooooooo awesome! :LOL
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#4 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:23 AM
 
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The fuzbaby stuff is what I'm asking about. She calls them chilipeppers but they seriously just look like green dipes to me? I dont get it. Is there something that I'm missing here?
Good point. Now I don't feel so bad about not being able to afford to bid. Because nobody else would even be able to tell it's a chilli pepper diaper. I mean I could just get another dipe that color and tell myself it's a cilli pepper diaper. Of course if I could afford one well then it'd be art.lol.
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#5 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Of course if I could afford one well then it'd be art.lol.
:LOL You're totally right. I wouldnt be questioning it at all if I had the cash! :LOL
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#6 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:32 AM
 
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I too have to say that art is subjective - and I do consider Lori's creation a form of art. I have said more than once - and heck, she's even quoted me . . . in my opinion, they are by far the most beautiful diapers on the world wide web.

Here's an analogy. I love Paul Klee - the artist. I have several of his prints throughout the house. His and Kandinsky. Now, some would say, "My child could do that - I should just frame my child's artwork" And to be honest, we have done that - framed it in an 'art' frame and proudly display it next to the Klee's in our home. However, we still LOVE the Klee. I often wonder where they get the names for their creations (especially since they are in German and only my mother can decipher it for me :LOL ), but we come up with our own names.

So, yea . . . maybe another 'like colored' cover or diaper could be named the same thing, but there are certain things I know I am getting when I order from Lori.

I am getting quality. I am getting organic or hemp. I am getting a woman that supports local industry. I am getting an activist's approach to cloth diapering. And I am getting a custom hand-dyed creation that is unlike anything else I've purchased on the web. I am getting a momma that is as willing to encourage a momma to make her own diapers as she is willing to sell one of her creations to that same woman.

Each WAHM has her 'thing' - her 'niche.' I do believe that Lori is a good salesperson, but if she had a product that was crappy . . . well, the talk wouldn't last long and the fever wouldn't have been 'catching!'

Some can take it or leave it. I am one that has chosen to 'bite' and am glad that I have.
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#7 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:33 AM
 
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I really do see your point. It's like the For Eyes commercial where the glasses are exactly the same, but the salesperson says their glasses speak French and that's why they're so much more expensive.

I get the point about the diapers being well-made and functional... but the gimmick of the cute names and the way she chooses to market them create quite the buzz. There are a LOT of well-made and functional diapers out there -- I have never had one of hers, but I have often wondered just how far superior any one diaper can be to another when they are both well-made and functional.
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#8 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:36 AM
 
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I totally agree...

But then again, I think it is totally ridiculous that someone charges soo much for something that cost so little to make.

I also feel bad for all the Fuzified Mama's that now have to go pay more, because they are now listed on ebay to get yet more money per diaper.

(Oh, and BTW... before I get nasty PM's... I am entitled to my opinion as well )

(And yes, I have owned Fuz)
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#9 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:42 AM
 
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well...i could never afford that much for a diaper....
but i can appreciate the WAHM making that much for it.
i am sure she pours hours into those diapers.
how much is she really making an hour?
think about how much an OB makes for showing up for the last 5 minutes of pushing?
she is a very talented seamstress who seems to have mastered the craft of diaper making....she should make a good income from it.
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#10 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:45 AM
 
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Ah, no one is going to get bashed for their opinions here . . . everyone has a right to their thoughts and expression - of course, as long as it is done tactfully and respectfully.

I do believe that Lori does not utilize the same manufacturers that many do in their materials. Her 'smallering' business approach suggests otherwise, so her mark-up most probably is less than one would anticipate if compared to the much lesser pricing behind mass manufactured fabric that we see across the WAHM stores and in our local large-chain fabric shops. She utilizes organic material, hand-dyes and supports local industry.

Not AT ALL making a judgment call on other WAHMs - I have purchased many a pretty/creative/curious/fun diaper fro other WAHMs. I just think the business approach and commitment is different according to the individual's 'cause' y'know?

Just a thought to throw out to the wind!
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#11 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:47 AM
 
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You know what I like? I like to go outside and look up the sky and see a big bright blue stretching across the horizon with puffy, fluffy cumulonimbus clouds in white against the blue. Then I like to look at my son's bum and see an exact replica of that. It makes me smile. For me, the smile is a big part of it.

The exclusivity is another piece....these are in limited quantities and you have something that not everyone else has or can get. That's not so much snobby as...I don't even know what word I'm looking for here. It's like when I buy a pollock print (this phish artist)...he hand paints and numbers each of his works. There are tons of knockoff's but for the more discerning eye, one can tell if it is a true pollock or not. They (the art and the diaper art) resell very well too.

I used to laugh at fuz buyers and mumble under my breath things like they needed their heads examined for buying a "$100 diaper" and then I'd mumble along with "more money than brains". BUT, it made them happy, and they kept talking and talking and talking....so I got curious. My first buy was the blue skies set and I was hooked. I wish my digi cam wasn't broken (thanks, son!) b/c I could show you a fit that is like a glove on him...nice and trim and no leaks or wicking and the binding issues on the diapers (knock on wood) haven't occured yet on my diapers. Do I have other cheaper diapers that I like just as much? I surely do. Do I have other say cloud print diapers? As a matter of fact, I do-SOS and fmbg. Do I still LOVE my fuz blue skies more and think it is prettier? I honestly do. It's like I've said before about spending (wasting) my money...at least it ain't on the crack!

I guess this is different strokes for different folks. You don't *need* fuz, but it is NICE to have.
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#12 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:48 AM
 
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Originally posted by JodiM
But then again, I think it is totally ridiculous that someone charges soo much for something that cost so little to make.
I am surprised to hear this. In other threads about WAHMs you hear the other work they do listed out, and how if you count all the hours they work, not just sewing, they're making like $2 per hour. I wouldn't call that a fair wage. Lori spends a lot of time planning what the garden will be and making prototypes, testing dyes, etc. I think she deserves to be paid for that time.

I am disappointed that she's gone the auction route. I know it will make her life easier, and it will, of course, make her more money, but there's no way I will end up with a diaper garden from here on out. I just can't bring myelf to pay what some others are apparently willing to pay.
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#13 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh good point and thanks for that info. Heather. I have to admit that I did not know what "smallering" meant. Having that information does make a difference in my opinion.
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#14 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:52 AM
 
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Originally posted by JodiM
I also feel bad for all the Fuzified Mama's that now have to go pay more, because they are now listed on ebay to get yet more money per diaper.
Why do you feel bad? No one *has* to pay for them. No one is making anyone buy them. : Many ppl will not be able to get them, but not everyone could get them before either.

Think what you want of diaper art... I love Lori's creations, you (general you here) may not. We each have our own opinions, you're right. I don't however, think her marketing tactics are "gimmicks" and a ploy to get us mamas to spend all our hard earned $. She has been making dipes for, what... 3 yrs now? In her gallery are many beautiful one-of-a-kind diapers that probably went for lots of $ on auction. And those were even harder to get than the Garden diapers now. Her dipes have always been pricey. She used to only do auctions too... it is just recently that her diapers have really begun to be "hot."

So please, have your opinion on her art, but do not think that she is an evil genius plotting to get rich off making diapers. :
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#15 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:52 AM
 
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I too think Lori is a savvy business woman. I also believe she makes beautiful diapers. Many of her diaper gardens have been truly spectacular. As for her going to auction only... I think its smart of her. She can now cut back on the number of specialty diapers/covers she makes and still probably take in the same or close to the same profit as she did while going crazy trying to churn out all those diapers. I think that she can make a HUGE profit and its not one that I am personally willing to pay, but if others will, more power to them.

As for feeling sorry for Moms that can't afford the auctions. They can still buy a regular cover. I don't feel sorry for anyone. I'd love some FUZ but its just not in the budget right now. I can't afford a lot of art that goes on auction, but that's life...

Jodi, Hope you're doing well and enjoying life with your family
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#16 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:58 AM
 
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Yes, I agree... if it's a embroidered design

I don't think a color of a diaper is a design, YKWIM?

But then again, different strokes for different folks.
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#17 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 03:13 AM
 
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I definitely agree Jodi about this month's garden falling a bit short. Basically they're bold colors. I do like the seeds, but they'll get pooped on :
But man, they're sure getting the bids on ebay!
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#19 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 04:23 AM
 
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I don't disagree with anyone's opinion about art (I could vote either way), but I just thought I'd go see what everyone's talking about so I checked out the eBay auctions. After seeing what's being sold I don't think she's making much money. It would take a long time to make all those items and the organic fabrics are very expensive (grown without pesticides). With all the business taxes, social security taxes, health insurance, and everything else a small business owner gets stuck with, I bet she just does it because she believes in what she's doing and really enjoys it, just like all the other WAHMs. Unfortunately what we're comparing her to is the other WAHMs who are making far less than minimum wage. She may be up to minimum wage or a little above it, but I bet she'd make more (and have more benefits) at a regular job. I think we get used to paying very little for things since most clothes and things at the store are made by people in very poor countries who get paid only a few cents per hour. Sometimes I feel guilty buying diapers for only $15 each when I know the WAHM is making less than minimum wage to produce them. Then I remember it's because they love doing it, and click "buy it" anyway!
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#20 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 06:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by JodiM
Yes, I agree... if it's a embroidered design

I don't think a color of a diaper is a design, YKWIM?

But then again, different strokes for different folks.
Why isn't color a design? She's got a gorgeous palatte this month... 8 colors put together in unique ways... is that not design? Is that not art???

I'm feeling a bit punchy tonight... need sleep, lol
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#21 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 08:51 AM
 
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I think it is great that a WAHM is able to MAKE money at this and not just throw away her time. Selling stuff that takes 9+ hours of planning or work and having it go for even $35 is less than min wage. Hand dying wool, doing all the prep work to the fabrics and then sewing them all? that is a LOT of work. Now I personally would DIE before spending $100's on a diaper set (because DH would kill me) but if I had the extra money, heck yeah I would buy at least one Fuz. (probably not the chilli's but I loved the strawberry.

As for the e-bay thing, I think it is kinda sad to see it go out that way since there are some momma's that want Fuz and can't afford to go over retail (just saving the pay pal for that and only had enough for that) so that is kind sad. It would be maybe better if she did them as a BIN on e-bay? that way it limits the # that can be sold but it doesn't make the price sky rocket? At least a few that way. Anyway she deserves the money that is for sure, I just think it is sad to see some of the momma's that wanted it so bad not be able to get it.
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#22 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 09:06 AM
 
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Lori get what she deserves. Art is subjective. Her items take sooo long to plan, get her dye formula down, decide color schemes and think of themes. I think she deserves it. It is sad though that so many won't be able to afford them now though.

It is a nice gender neutral theme though

Sherry
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#23 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 09:36 AM
 
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Fuzbaby means color to me, and I do agree with Julie that color, and color combinations, are art. Especially when that color is on the quality of materials and with the workpersonship the fuzbaby diipes are. And the dipes are even more spectacular in person than they are on the web pages or in the auctions.

I think the new system is terrific-- it is a good balance between loyalty to her "oldest" customers (those with reservations) and making the dipes available to everyone. Even if you have to pay more money on auctions than what they cost on the website, what the market will bear is still a fair price.

None of us are entitled to buy fuzbaby diapers at all, or to buy them at a fixed price. I think it is great that Lori recognized that her previous system wasn't working for her, and figured out something different. I hope this works out really well for Fuzbaby.

I love the new colors and the seed print. I'd be all over one of those AIO's if only the fit worked better for my hard-to-fit son. Good luck to everyone who's bidding.

Karla
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#24 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 11:49 AM
 
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After seeing what's being sold I don't think she's making much money. It would take a long time to make all those items and the organic fabrics are very expensive (grown without pesticides). With all the business taxes, social security taxes, health insurance, and everything else a small business owner gets stuck with, I bet she just does it because she believes in what she's doing and really enjoys it, just like all the other WAHMs.
Oh, I think she'll do quite well. They're all around $100, but have 2 days left at auction. I'm looking forward to seeing how high they go. As for biz taxes, ss taxes, insurance, I'm not sure if she has employees. I run a small business myself, but since I have no employees I don't pay those taxes. However, I have to go back to work full-time, at least until I can make a living wage from my business (right now I don't make any wage). That's just how it is when you start in most things. I think its great that she can make a good profit. But most businesses take 2-3 years to get to that point. I think she's been doing this 3 years? So looks like she's reached that point.

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#25 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 12:05 PM
 
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all the diaper gardens. I think I would love them even if it were a heeping pile of steaming compost, with big bugs and giant spiders in there. Like my compost!! Anyway, I too wish I could just get them like we always did, I wish she could of hired three four more diaper sewing people for the job. Seriously because I really feel more FUZ in the world is a good thing. I guess we all have choices, we can bid or not bid. I know if someone outbids me I am going to be one sad mama. But that is life. I think the seeds are great! I love the color of the green cover, I could care less what the world thinks, it is what I think that matters.
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#26 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 12:14 PM
 
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ooooh boy. I should let my DH sit down and hash out the whole "art" thing. It might be fun

He and I have this argument all the time over what is art and what isn't

It has taken me years to get him to agree that certain one of a kind quilts are art, when he sees it as a craft (and the furthest thing from art) And those that I have gotten him to agree on, are truly one of a kind, non traditional designs.
DH's theory is if you go into something and say your making art, its not art. YOu cant just say "I'm an artist so therefor, everything I make is art" The whole art argument is weird.

BTW...anyone else have a snobby artist DH? Mine is in his last year of his MFA and I deal with "art arguments" just about every day LOL.
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#27 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 12:22 PM
 
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I have a friend that's a housekeeper and charges $75 per cleaning, but she has to charge that much due to taxes just on herself. She unfortunately owes $5000 in back-taxes for not realizing what she owed earlier. Once a small business makes more money than they spend (salary above $0/hr even for themselves) then they have to pay taxes on it as a profit. What I mean by health care and ss taxes is that if she doesn't work for another company, she'll have to pay for these for herself if she wants them, even if no one else works for her. When working for another company they usually pay part of that bill for health care and other benefits, but when working for herself she has to foot the entire bill if she wants to get those benefits. She might also get sick time and vacation time and other things by working for someone else. I think it's wonderful that so many people have the dream of working for themselves, but that's a very difficult thing to do. Another one of my friends is a massage therapist and it's frustrating to her that people don't understand why she won't accept anything under $60/hr, due to all the taxes and other expenses she has.
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#28 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 01:09 PM
 
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In my design class last fall my professor said: "True art cannot be described by anything that starts with the letter C" - examples given were cute, crafty, cliche, etc. Just thought that was kinda funny. (creative?? :LOL)

Anyway - that was just a sidebar.

My personal opinion is that the diapers look okay - bright colors are nice, seeds are a little less seed-like than I've seen from her work. I am thoroughly impressed with things like Ice Star - all that applique...or Turnip - with the variegated dye job - but most of the others are a bit lacking, IMO.

As for "paying for something that is so high quality" I beg to differ - I've seen the binding on those things after a couple months of use - do you know how TICKED I'd be if my Petunia Pickle Bottom Bag (which was less than a fuzbaby set) started to deteriorate that quickly?

I'm also disappointed in the lack of willingness to help customers with problems...I know of more than one mama who had a *serious* problem with her diape and the communication was not there and remedies were not appropriate.

So, yes, art is subjective - but are we not filled with artists on our own site - Little Turtle Knits is art - heck, Tuesday Bear isART (nms, but art!! Talk about lots of work put into a diaper cover!) Kool Sheep Soakers - art...I could go on and on, but you get the idea Lots of mamas make beautifully artistic diapers and covers and still don't charge us $100 or try to make more money by using ebay instead of personal orders. So, yes, art is subjective - but I'd rather have an oil painting that will last forever than a watercolor that will run in the rain.
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#29 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 01:17 PM
 
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I think that she is stretching the term 'art' with these if you compare them to the previous gardens, or switching genre :LOL. It's a plain colored diaper...why not pay less and get one of her regular ones?

IMO, she's a pretty smart wahm, though.
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#30 of 53 Old 08-10-2003, 02:31 PM
 
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Well, I the fuz. That being said , I like the new set but not enough to pay that much over retail for it. I would probably but it if it went for the normal price. Lori does really great work. They are really the favorite at our house even with that price.

Edited to add: I will pay that much and more for some really great fall colors.

Misty, mama to my nurslings William(11/4/02) and Parker(7/13/04).
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