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#1 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi there,

I have 16 month old and we've been doing EC from the beginning.  We were not able to keep up with peeing, so we try to catch as many as possible, but concentrated on poops.  DS has been been pooping a potty since 6 months except for a few days when we moved and few days when we were traveling.  He can speak qu.  ite well and asks for potty or says poop.  

 

My question is, i just read this article: http://www.babble.com/toddler/toddler-health-safety/dangers-potty-training-early/

which has made me quite scared.  My son has 1-3 BMs a day, some are quite firm and he does strain quite a bit (red face, pushes really hard).  Most though are soft and pass easily, though the sheer volume is shocking!!!  He pees very frequently and now i am worried this is a sign he has a stool blockage.

 

What are your thoughts on the dangers of young children holding there poop?  Have we set up our child for problems/confusing him by not worrying about pees only poops??  

 

Thoughts and resource links would be much appreciated.

 

Jen

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#2 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 02:42 PM
 
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Ok....I read the article quickly, but I did read all of it.

 

First of all, I think that if your DS is going 1-3 times per day, he likely isn't witholding.  There is a difference between controlling the muscles and witholding.

 

Secondly, I think there is a difference between EC and potty training.  With EC you are teaching your child to tell you when they need to go, and then the parent takes them.  You are teaching them TO go and not to withold.  With potty training, you are teaching a child to "hold it".  I remember reading in Ingrid Bauer's book about this distinction.

 

Thirdly, I think if you read the comments following the article that the author backed down quite a bit when confronted with the whole "EC" aspect of things and also acknowledged that a MAJOR part of the problem with witholding and constipation is the crap diet that so many kids have these days.

 

Finally, this is just the opinion of one doctor.  Even in the article this doctor states that there are others with opposing opinoins.

 

I would be interested to know why we don't have FEWER issues, rather than more as this doctor states as kids have been trained later and later over the last 30-40 years.  Based on how late most kids train compared to the 1950s, 1960s or earlier, this guy should be out of work.  Based on his position, all our grandparents should have been incontenent adults with compacted bowels.


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#3 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 03:25 PM
 
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I agree with the pp- my MIL was telling me in the 50's most people would potty train their kids around the age of 2. I think forcing a young child to potty is very sad. I remember my parents punished "accidents". The important distinction here, is that potty training is a process in which one "trains" a child, that they must to do something that is new to them.  In EC potty has always been part of daily life. As natural as eating and sleeping. Of course, there are experts out there that seem to want to tell parents that they have mismanaged that to. Our EC'd children have always been treated respectfully. They have their own unique wisdom, I have aways fully trusted.

 

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#4 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 04:08 PM
 
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I read the article.

I don't think it's really about EC.

I agree that withholding is bad for bodies.

I think offering the potty frequently doesn't encourage withholding.

Most people prefer to move their bowels at home. Most diapered toddlers I've seen even hide when they poop.

Mostly I got from the article that eating lots of processed foods and going to preschool are hard on some kids' digestion.

My question is this, if parents are potty training their kids before 3 just to get them into preschool, and those kids are holding at school, but other kids are training later and not having problems, does that mean those kids aren't in school? So holding it is less likely anyway? If they're not in school, do they have SAHP? Does that mean they may even be getting more nutritious (and higher fiber) meals?

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#5 of 16 Old 03-26-2012, 06:03 PM
 
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I am an EC educator/author and my friend is a non-coercive potty trainer. We both replied to the article and are crafting a video response to clear up the misinformation he presents.

 

Basically, EC does not involve teaching your child to HOLD his or her pee or poo.

 

So, to answer your question, NO, EC will not harm your child because you are not teaching your child to "hold it." On the contrary, ECers teach their children to trust their instincts and their bodies...and to "let go" when the time is right, asking for help from a grown-up during the months of not being able to take themselves to the potty.

 

You are all good Mama!

 

(Btw, read my comment to his article - under the name "Andrea of EC Simplified" - to see all the other things I think about his flawed "study" and the facts he's overlooked. He is indeed addressing a valid problem, but making it *universal* to all children based on his small sample size of ill children is ludicrous and probably a ploy to sell his book.)

 

:) Andrea


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Author | EC Simplified: Infant Potty Training Made Easy

Owner | GoDiaperFree.com

[I teach parents of 0-20 month old babies how to stop diapering
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#6 of 16 Old 03-30-2012, 12:58 PM
 
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My personal experience with two ECed kids is that EC helps the kids not hold it. They knows from the beginning their body signals, even at the times when they have potty strikes and lots of pees misses or stomach aches. My oldest is a very distracted little men that gets so busy daily activities, so pee is distractive from time to time. EC is  not about the goal of not pees or poops in their pants, it's about that each child reconized their own body signal and a parent or caregiver that helps the kid..Ei.. I want poop, mom or dad is going to bring me to the potty, now I feel better and clean, go back to play!, simple as that!. Squatting to eliminate is been beneficial to humans.. ... Actually, sometimes I feel odd to seen kids pooping in lay down position!.. How's not Drs ever say anything about this?????....Just  squatting helps to empty better!.

 

Also, EC is been help me to watch constantly the color and the form of my child poops to check the signs of health or illness. We don't eat processed meals and we eat raw vegetables  and fermeneted food  in daily basic. Constipation or UTI's never been a word in my house. For us, healthy and unprocessed diet and EC is been the best combo to protect our kids of further health problems.


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#7 of 16 Old 03-31-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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Rubbish!  What rubbish!  Articles like this written by people who know nothing about different methods of ec/potty training do a disservice to parents everywhere.  For heavens sake.  Even some methods of potty training do not harm children in the ways he's claiming, much less EC!  How ridiculous.


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#8 of 16 Old 03-31-2012, 08:41 AM
 
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I've been reading a fair amount about potty learning recently, just to get a sense of what reasonable expectations are for my fully ECed 3.5 yr old, who I consider a grad.  What strikes me in the literature, including this article are 2 things:

 

1 - the idea that PL and what this article calls "uninhibited voiding" (without recourse to a diaper) requires constant 24/7 attention and is therefore extremely onerous or simply can't be done.  This strikes me as ridiculous.  Babies and young children need constant care and supervision.  Since when is that news to anyone?  With EC, you are providing that constant care in the same way that we constantly provide for and attend to other needs: sleep, temperature, feeding, safety, etc.

 

2 - the idea that a PLed child (or EC grad for that matter) takes care of their elimination with absolutely no adult support.  This seems to be the article author's main point, that the holding and inattention to elimination this causes leads to problems.  Through which ever method that your child becomes diaperless, they'll still need adult facilitation of potty times and adult support and attention.  Maybe a comparison to other needs is again appropriate: young children don't set their own bedtime or have full responsibility for their own food.  We supervise them and help them make decisions about safety, and we help them learn about appropriate clothing.  It seems to me that "graduation" or "PLed" is achieved when the balance of responsibility for pottying reaches a level that the adult is comfortable with, be that 50/50, 60/40, 90/10 whatever (once the physical basics are achieved).  If you child is a grad or PLed younger, that ratio of support or responsibility likely should reflect their developmental needs at their age.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts!  I'm curious what others think.

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#9 of 16 Old 04-04-2012, 07:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbird2 View Post

I've been reading a fair amount about potty learning recently, just to get a sense of what reasonable expectations are for my fully ECed 3.5 yr old, who I consider a grad.  What strikes me in the literature, including this article are 2 things:

 

1 - the idea that PL and what this article calls "uninhibited voiding" (without recourse to a diaper) requires constant 24/7 attention and is therefore extremely onerous or simply can't be done.  This strikes me as ridiculous.  Babies and young children need constant care and supervision.  Since when is that news to anyone?  With EC, you are providing that constant care in the same way that we constantly provide for and attend to other needs: sleep, temperature, feeding, safety, etc.

 

2 - the idea that a PLed child (or EC grad for that matter) takes care of their elimination with absolutely no adult support.  This seems to be the article author's main point, that the holding and inattention to elimination this causes leads to problems.  Through which ever method that your child becomes diaperless, they'll still need adult facilitation of potty times and adult support and attention.  Maybe a comparison to other needs is again appropriate: young children don't set their own bedtime or have full responsibility for their own food.  We supervise them and help them make decisions about safety, and we help them learn about appropriate clothing.  It seems to me that "graduation" or "PLed" is achieved when the balance of responsibility for pottying reaches a level that the adult is comfortable with, be that 50/50, 60/40, 90/10 whatever (once the physical basics are achieved).  If you child is a grad or PLed younger, that ratio of support or responsibility likely should reflect their developmental needs at their age.

 

Anyway, those are my thoughts!  I'm curious what others think.

 

ITA. DD (14 months) can't be without my supervision anyway.. so what's the added responsibility in taking her across the hall to the potty when she signs for it? No more than if I were changing her diaper? Also in terms of night EC, the idea that you can't know when your child is waking to pee strikes a cord of parents who have never co-slept or slept in the same room with their child for that matter. 

 

My 3.5 y/o DS is completely PLed (in my definition)... he wears underwear all day everyday and they never get wet or dirty (except when sick). He goes when he has to go, often without telling me at all,  and almost always without my reminder. However - you can still find me saying to my DS... "That was a big smoothie, you're going to have to go pee soon...", or "Please remember to pull your underwear all the way down so they don't get wet when you pee.." or "Please make sure you wipe completely or ask for help"... he still requires some adult attention is bathroom habits, or his clothes/body would get and stay wet and dirty here and there just from a bit of carelessness. 

 

 

FWIW to the OP, I don't think my 14 m/o has ever "held it" longer than the 5 seconds it takes to pull down her underwear and sit her up on the potty. When she tells me she has to go, she means now, and she can't/won't wait long. If I'm too busy or taking too long or whatever should happen, she's more likely to pee her underwear, and then take them off herself, and point to the bath so I can clean her rather than hold it.
 

 


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#10 of 16 Old 05-31-2012, 10:35 PM
 
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I don't mean to offend but I am a preschool teacher and a mom who deals with many different children and I have NEVER heard of the EC method before but I can honestly say after reading both the article and doing a little research on EC I think it is a bunch of crap. I think the fact you all want to spend the time with your babies in the bathroom when they are a few months old and are barely able to reach for their toys and sit up is nuts. Not to mention good luck finding a preschool that will help you potty train before age 2. Babies are just babies what is the rush? If your worried about the environment then use cloth diapers other than that leave the poor kids alone to use the bathroom just as we did not too long ago. If you want to teach your child then do something productive like reading and teaching them sign language and leave the poop where it belongs in their diapers until they are old enough to recognize that they are wet/dirty by letting you know. Children grow up to fast already in today's world why give them something else to worry about is my point. Let kids be kids! Let me just add that I am saying anything before a year old is too much but I think EC is great for kids 18months and older.

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#11 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 12:19 AM
 
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Before we started EC, as early as the day she was born, my daughter would recognize that she was wet/dirty and let me know by crying. So apparently she was old enough. She communicated to me that she had soiled her diaper and didn't like it.
All I'm doing is changing where she pees and poops, she communicates the need and I help her. She's not being taught to hold it.

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#12 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 05:49 AM
 
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Thanks for giving me a good chuckle this morning ("EC, I think it's a bunch of crap" should be a bumper sticker!). We were all skepticle when we first learned about EC. We all made different journeys to the practice of EC. We have had many people express an opinion similar to the one you just expressed, so the idea of diapers is a familiar one. I don't think anyone has really told me to wait until my child is old enough to tell me he's dirty before I change his diaper but I'll keep it in mind.

So why do we do it?

I have been a mom for several years and I have observed several newborns. They have universally expressed their need to use the toilet. Before I learned about EC I did not recognize these signals but now that I've gone through the process I recognize the signals given by babies I've never met before. To me EC is not about teaching my child something, it's about respecting his communication and his body. It is possible to ignore a baby's communication about needing to void, then the child learns not to express it and to simply go in his pants. To say it another way, I respond to my child's toileting needs so he continues to express them. I practice EC to keep my son dry, comfortable and aware.

The article really wasn't about EC. It may look like that to someone who doesn't understand EC (like the author) but that is an article about constipation.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennbdalley View Post

I don't mean to offend but I am a preschool teacher and a mom who deals with many different children and I have NEVER heard of the EC method before but I can honestly say after reading both the article and doing a little research on EC I think it is a bunch of crap. I think the fact you all want to spend the time with your babies in the bathroom when they are a few months old and are barely able to reach for their toys and sit up is nuts. Not to mention good luck finding a preschool that will help you potty train before age 2. Babies are just babies what is the rush? If your worried about the environment then use cloth diapers other than that leave the poor kids alone to use the bathroom just as we did not too long ago. If you want to teach your child then do something productive like reading and teaching them sign language and leave the poop where it belongs in their diapers until they are old enough to recognize that they are wet/dirty by letting you know. Children grow up to fast already in today's world why give them something else to worry about is my point. Let kids be kids! Let me just add that I am saying anything before a year old is too much but I think EC is great for kids 18months and older.

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#13 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 06:15 AM
 
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I don't mean to offend either, but I don't expect my child to magically potty train herself at 3. I don't expect her to all of a sudden recognize her bodily sensation, stop playing, go into the bathroom, pull down her undies, climb up onto a toilet, eliminate, climb down, pull up her pants and wash her hands WITHOUT having been taught from a young age. I know you support EC after 18 months but there is no harm in supporting bodily awareness from an earlier age. The let babies be babies argument makes it sound like we are drilling these kids, rewarding catches and punishing misses. That is completely untrue. In EC a parent or caregiver learns to recognize baby's cues and offers baby a sanitary place to eliminate, reducing ammonia burns and diaper rash. How is that different from recognizing a hungry baby's rooting and offering the breast? There are always misses and they are no big deal. EC isn't about all babies going 100% diaper free and mom hovering over the toilet with him. It's about giving baby the opportunity not to sit in her waste. I don't know where you did your research but there is a lot of biased information out there. If you want to claim to be informed about EC, read "diaper free before three" and you will get a much more well rounded view of the process. There are tons of parents practicing part time EC (after daycare and weekends for example) and even occasional EC. Plenty of moms start after 6 months or, as I have, around one year. I wouldn't expect my child to go from exclusively nursing to eating a steak in a week. It is my responsibility as a parent to give her opportunities to learn how to eat a varied diet of increasing complexity while I assist and support her. Taking care of her personal hygiene is no different to me. I started giving her opportunities to eliminate in a potty at 11 months. Now at 14 months, sitting in a poopy diaper is a rarity and she will sometimes ASK to get on the potty so she can pee, get her still dry cloth diaper back on and run off to play. She much prefers sitting on a potty, getting a quick standing wipe and a diaper to being wrestled to the ground so I can clean poop off her backside while she screams. You are quite free to think of EC as "crap", but at least DD's doodoo is in a nice plastic bowl instead of smeared all over her adorable behind!!
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#14 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 06:19 AM
 
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Very well put. Seraf. I think we were posting at the same time :-)
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#15 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 03:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennbdalley View Post

I don't mean to offend but I am a preschool teacher and a mom who deals with many different children and I have NEVER heard of the EC method before but I can honestly say after reading both the article and doing a little research on EC I think it is a bunch of crap. I think the fact you all want to spend the time with your babies in the bathroom when they are a few months old and are barely able to reach for their toys and sit up is nuts. Not to mention good luck finding a preschool that will help you potty train before age 2. Babies are just babies what is the rush? If your worried about the environment then use cloth diapers other than that leave the poor kids alone to use the bathroom just as we did not too long ago. If you want to teach your child then do something productive like reading and teaching them sign language and leave the poop where it belongs in their diapers until they are old enough to recognize that they are wet/dirty by letting you know. Children grow up to fast already in today's world why give them something else to worry about is my point. Let kids be kids! Let me just add that I am saying anything before a year old is too much but I think EC is great for kids 18months and older.

Wow, I can see you are very attached to the idea of diapering babies, and that you know very little about EC. We ECd our son from the day we got home from the hospital. From th beginning he preferred to poop in the potty and we almost never had to change a poopy diaper. It was not something for him to "worry about" and not about making him grow up faster. It was about respecting him as a small human, who doesn't want to languish in his own waste any more than you do. And it was about developing our ability to communicate about his needs. If understanding your child's needs and meeting them is nuts, then perhaps parenting is not your cup of tea.

"That's the way it is, if that's the way it seems to you."

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#16 of 16 Old 06-01-2012, 03:51 PM
 
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Gotta love the drive-by posters around here... the poor babies??? We don't exactly do ec as a method, but it is very obvious to me after five newborns that they prefer not to have to go in their diapers. They do it because they get used to it after awhile, but in those first few days they will absolutely take the opportunity when they are diaper free to go.

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