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Old 02-24-2003, 03:08 AM
 
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Ava,
That is wonderful. Thanks for sharing your excitement!

I too was surprised at how clearly Kenny seemed to be indicating . . . even after just the first day. Today while we were at church I was wearing Kenny and he was sleeping soundly. He woke just as his daddy stopped teaching and the people were leaving for the worship service. I told Jeff, hang on, he'll need to pee before church. The bathrooms are usually loaded with women, so I just took off his diaper that he had on and gave him his Psssss cue and he peed right into the diaper (which was dry, by the way). I re-diapered him in a fresh dipe and he promptly fell right back to sleep and slept through the whole service. When we got home we peed him again. I think I really used to think that he peed WHILE he slept, but I'm learning he pees as he is waking or if he stirs he might.
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Old 02-24-2003, 03:35 AM
 
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I think I really used to think that he peed WHILE he slept, but I'm learning he pees as he is waking or if he stirs he might.
Isn't it exciting! It would have been fun for you to pee Kenny in the bathroom sink at church just to drop some jaws. lol!

Do any of you ever not tell people about EC because they might think it's crazy? I didn't tell many people about it after getting some strange looks. But I get the same strange looks about cloth diapers too.

Anyway back to night peeing-- I discovered that with Abi too. If she pees at night she stirs first and then goes back to sleep after. About 1/2 the time she wakes up dry and holds it until I take her potty.

Darshani

7yo: "Mom,I know which man is on a quarter and which on is on a nickel. They both have ponytails, but one man has a collar and the other man is naked. The naked man was our first president."
 
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Old 02-24-2003, 03:46 AM
 
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i have no real need to get involved in the thread 'o' discussion here, but i've noticed that EC sites rarely mention, when they provide support for their cause, the many "primitive" cultures who DO use something like diapers? It isn't as if diapers are just a product of the Industrial Revolution. to look at it that way is to miss the big picture- systems similar to diapering, designed to absorb urine and such, have been used throughout history.

that doesn't lend diapers 'credibilty' any more than the number of cultures that practice EC lends it credibility.

I am not pro one or the other, i think its silly to debate which is more AP. AP is just a label, and while i parent in a way that is indeed AP, I also do many other things that aren't part of AP. People feel defensive, and i totally understand, because most of the EC sites i've come across are weirdly agressive and openly condemn cloth diaperers for "desensitizing their baby's genitals" and other things. It sure made me feel weird when i first read it.

At any rate, i think very little research has been done about the benefits of EC, and i do believe there are many, but the decision is not as clear cut to me as using cloth instead of plastic-

most of the 'convincing arguments' i've heard to use EC have a strange scare-tactic sound to them, maybe its just passion, but hopefully in the future there will be a solid set of reasons and benefits that don't try to make cloth diaperers feel like they abuse their children!?

just some musings...

tabitha

Hi, I'm Tabitha. I'm a homeschooling mother of four: ds (11) dd (9) ds (7) ds (5) And I'm expecting a fifth in 2014! Find me at http://www.omelay.blogspot.com
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Old 02-24-2003, 04:03 AM
 
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Originally posted by JDsMommy
How do you reconcile the EC thought with (What I always thought) was discouragement against "Too early potty training"?
Personally, I think that the discouragement you refer to is misguided. Several of the baby books I have read make sort of sideways reference to EC Dr. Spock, for instance says don't do it because the baby will develop freudian anal-rententive problems. Another book says that when your grandma swears your mom was toilet trained at 12 months it's because she's old and batty, and the awful 'What to Expect" book says something similar.

It seems to me like these authors had heard of EC, but for some reason didn't believe it could work.

The reason I tried it was because my mom said that's what she did and I trust my mom more than a book.

It has turned out really great. We aren't diaper free, but we are definitely diaper lite. And I totally agree with those who say that EC is another opportunity to listen to and respond to the child's needs.

On the other hand, we use a diaper in the car seat and when we go out . All the carpets and indooor upholstry in the U.S. don't seem compatible with the total bare-butt route.

My opinion is that diapers are basically a convenience that have come to be considered a necessity partly because we in the U.S. tend to live in environments that aren't very well designed for the needs of babies and children.

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Old 02-24-2003, 11:38 AM
 
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Originally posted by AmyB
My opinion is that diapers are basically a convenience that have come to be considered a necessity partly because we in the U.S. tend to live in environments that aren't very well designed for the needs of babies and children.
Well said!
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Old 02-24-2003, 12:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by momsgotmilk4two
I have heard many EC moms on here say that thier babies cry while they hold them over the sink, and they are wondering if that's because the babe has to pee and can't. I'm thinking, "yeah, right, mom. Babies crying because he doesn't like being dangled naked over the sink!".
Or because they don't like that particular position, when their tummy is full or when they have to burb, too. Or because they are just tired. Or because they don't have to pee at that moment. Or because... It's up to the mother to find out what the reason for the child's discomfort is. And do something against it. But this does not make EC as such something that's uncomfortable for babys.

On the other hand I've also witnessed several times now, that little babys started crying and while their mothers where clueless, they just had to pee or poo (we've got a playgroup here were the babies are naked for optimal freedom of movement, and you can watch how they cry first and finally go.)

I also hear about many children fighting and crying at diaper-changes, the older they get, the more. I was very happy, I did not have to diaper my son after 12 months of age, and before that, it could usually be done very quickly, as poopy diapers were rare..


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Someone asked about benefits to the baby of wearing diapers. I would say that one huge benefit to my baby is being able to leave the house. We go to the park, the museum, playgroups, the beach, lots of places. We could not do that if we were EC. Even EC moms will say that they put the babe in diapers in the car or while out. Seems kind of wishy washy to take such a strong stance as to say that using diapers is not AP and is bad for the child, and then turn around and grab for one every time you leave the house. JMO.
Wait a minute. There is a huge difference between using diapers as backup and using diapers as a toilet for babys. You can use diapers to avoid bigger messes in case of misses (soaked clothes, soaked momma, soaked sling, soaked carseat) and still EC. And don't tell me, that it is impossible to look for a place to "pee" baby from time to time when out and about. If all those who claim to change their baby every time he wets can go out, an EC-mom can, and much more easily, too. Because every place where you can change a baby, you can "pee" a baby as well - hold him over a diaper or a little bowl if you don't find a more suitable place. But you can also pee a baby, where changing him would be difficult or impossible. I pull Jutta's "BackUps" down with one hand, hold her over a toilet or whatever, go down in a squat and with her on my lap pull everything up again. As soon as she can stand on her own this is going to be even easier.

As EC-babys learn to relax and let go first, while conventional potty-training focuses on the ability to "hold it", with an EC baby you've also got the oportunity to offer a pee e.g. before entering the supermarket and baby will empty his bladder. So you are much less likely to get into a tight situation than with a toilet training toddler who waiting at the checkout suddenly decides he has to go NOW and you have to find a toilet in less than a minute.

Quote:
My two year old doesn't even want to use the potty. I don't see it as diaper training him.
But that's it exactly. He doesn't want to use the potty although his older siblings and everybody else do use the potty. Why? Because for him the diaper is the place to go. He is diaper trained.

Quote:
It does bother me when it becomes one more thing added to the list of things you *have* to do in order to be a good/AP mother and becomes a "crunchier than thou" contest.
Doing something just because it is crunchy is IMHO just as ridiculous as doing something just because "everybody" does it. I make my parenting-choices on what I think works best at a given moment for OUR family - it wonT necessarily be the best solution for anybody else. I think parents should know that you can get help with breastfeeding, that it is possible and even advusable to nurse past the first year, that your baby does not need a crib, that babywearing might make your life so much easier and enhance bonding with your baby, that you can homebirth and that there are not only cloth or disposables to choose from when babys elimination is concerned. You can decide what you want to do with that info I for example certainly won't win the competition for being crunchier than anybody else. I had two hospital births and I liked them, the second was 100% natural /no meds, the first only needed a bit of help to get labour along, and if I had a third child I'd go there again. I'm breasfeeding on demand and let Wolfgang self-wean and want to do it the same with Jutta, but my stance on vaccinations is not crunchy at all. I'm wearig my baby a lot, but definitely not 24/7. And so on. Why would you let others tell you what you have to do to be a "good" mother? There will be something new every day. Commercials will tell you, that you have to use babyfood X and bath Y to be a good mother, Others say you have to teach your baby to read. Others think, you should teach him to sleep through the night,Why not just listen, choose for yourself and be aware that you will never be able to do everything perfect in hindsight - so what?
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Old 02-27-2003, 09:48 PM
 
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I am jumping in very late here, but I just want to say that I, too, felt attacked and rather confused after reading some of the posts here. I don't use diapers as a potty for my child, or as a replacement for my attention. If you're truly looking to change the way people look at EC, those types of comments are probably not the most effective way. If you are just trying to make yourself feel superior, then comment away, but don't expect to win people over with condemnation or negative remarks.

I also want to point out that to me, EC sounds like a lot of work with a newborn and young baby. Just cleaning up a few misses a day would have been too much for me to handle in my early mothering days. I had a fussy, high-needs baby, and after a couple weeks I had no one around to support me outside of my husband who worked full time -- so needless to say even with diaper service I had everything I personally could handle and a whole lot more. I think a major component of EC would have to be based upon the personality of the child and the personality of the parent.

I feel confident that I did what was best for my family given our situation, and isn't that the true goal of parenting? EC sounds like it works beautifully for some people, and for them that is great. But nothing in a parenting toolkit, whether AP or otherwise, is completely and totally "one-size-fits-all."

Carol
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:09 PM
 
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I don't think the argument that diapers are bad because toddlers struggle with them is a very valid one because I keep hearing from ECing moms that their babies go through EC strikes or end up back in diapers altogether by the time the baby is a toddler. Maybe my first post came off as kind of defensive, but that's because the way many EC'ers were coming accross is that you are an abusive parent if you don't EC. I am not going to take that to heart and of course I don't let others tell me what I need to do to be a good mom- I'm sure many people here would disagree with some of my parenting practices, vaccinating being one of them.

I don't have anything against EC, but I wish that *some* of the EC moms would have a little more respect for some of the moms here, especially since this *is* a DIAPERING board. I am not going to go on an EC board and sing the praises of cding, so it just feels sort of strange to have EC moms doing that here and even stranger to have debates about which is better cding or ecing.
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Old 02-27-2003, 10:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by EllasMama
I feel confident that I did what was best for my family given our situation, and isn't that the true goal of parenting? EC sounds like it works beautifully for some people, and for them that is great. But nothing in a parenting toolkit, whether AP or otherwise, is completely and totally "one-size-fits-all."

Carol
Carol, I believe the above comment is very well said. We are all committed to our children or we would not be here . . . and I do believe that temperment on the part of the mother and child play into Elimination Communication in a big way.

I am currently EC'ing with three kids and there is no way that I can 'catch' everything. Kenny has really taken to the communication part though - and is quick to let me know when he's wet - so at the very least, I am able to change him quickly after he urinates. That, in and of itself, has made the experience worthwhile to me. I'm not sure that my dd2 would have responded with the same urgency as she never seemed to mind being wet - just soiled with poop.

I look forward to trying this with our next and seeing how it differs from child to child.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:30 AM
 
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Originally posted by momsgotmilk4two
I wish that *some* of the EC moms would have a little more respect for some of the moms here, especially since this *is* a DIAPERING board. I am not going to go on an EC board and sing the praises of cding, so it just feels sort of strange to have EC moms doing that here and even stranger to have debates about which is better cding or ecing.
I have to disagree here. I think that a diapering board is the perfect place to talk about EC, since EC is an alternitive to diapering. Many people come on the board looking for answers to their diapering problems, and EC is one of many solutions to these.

Not that anyone cares, but I'm going to give my opinion anyway:

I think that it's great that diapering works so well for some people, just as it is also wonderful that EC works for others. Some people honestly don't have the time and attention that it takes to use EC, and others don't have what is needed for the diapering life style. Only you can know what is best for your family.
However, best does not necessarily mean most natural. For instance: To walk around nakid, not use cars and build our homes with our bare hands, etc., is more natural than the life style we live, however that doesn't mean that how we are living is inherintly wrong, and that we need to change all aspects of our lives.

I, personally, think that the more natural the better. It's how it was meant to be. It also makes sence that some people's life styles are better suited to that than others. That doesn't make other people wrose for being less natural than you, it just makes them less natural.

IMO, EC is more natural than diapering, but that doesn't make it better.
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Old 02-28-2003, 02:54 PM
 
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I tried this for the past week with my 12-month-old and have concluded that diapers are better for us- and just as AP. If I am going to run around after my toddler and catch his poop with a diaper- I might as well as snap a diaper on him, let him poop in the diaper and shake the diaper off in toilet when he's done. I can see him grunting- I know all body language, but I don't have time to stand there while he does it.

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Old 02-28-2003, 03:17 PM
 
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Please just drop this argument. Just about everything has been said that can be and trying to get people mad again is not going to accomplish anything.



edited to add: Rabbity, did you see the thread about EC and older babies? http://www.mothering.com/discussions...threadid=44512
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:22 PM
 
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Consider it dropped I am going to take my chill pill now
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Old 02-28-2003, 03:36 PM
 
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Thank you, Meg. I had no seen the thread on EC and older babies.

Being right is not always fair, but being fair is always right
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Old 02-28-2003, 04:06 PM
 
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This thread is being closed. It has become more argumentative than supportive in orientation and this is not a debate forum on the attributes of one system over another.

Please feel free to post any non-argumentative, supportive threads about Elimination Communication for those mommas here that practice and delight in EC'ing their children.

Once again, all threads should remain respectful of each other's choices for their children. Remember that the definition of natural family living could certainly differ from family to family and momma to momma.
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