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Stbx wants ds EVERY day - Update #111

8K views 110 replies 29 participants last post by  DogwoodFairy 
#1 ·
We've been separated for 2 months. He hasn't seen ds in that time because I left the state to stay with family. I'm returning to the "home" state next week. I asked him last night what he was expecting in terms of parenting time with ds while I'm there. He said, "Well, I want him every day".

Now, I know that he misses seeing his son. I understand that and I dont blame him. I recognize my folly in separating them for so long, because that only makes his resolve to "have" ds all that much stronger.

However, NO. You cannot take him from his Mama every day, especially since he hasnt seen you in 2 months. That will scare him.

I suggested that he come visit ds at my Dad's house for the first couple of days (where I will be staying), and I will make myself scarce so he can spend time with ds, but I'll be waiting in the wings if needed. Stbx vetoed that idea. He wants to pick him up that day after we get there and take him away from me, every day, all day.

I said that once ds is comfortable with stbx again, he could take ds for 3 or 4 hours at a time. Ds was never truly comfortable because stbx NEVER spent time with him before, nor did he have any involvement with caretaking, ever. He never spent more than an hour with ds unsupervised (not after the first time anyway). Ds has more of a relationship with my Dad & Dads gf than he does with stbx, and he saw them less (once a week or so).

So how does everyone out there handle the visitation? Am I being too controlling?

I want for him to see ds, but not to take him from me every day. On top of the fact that I worry about ds's care while he's away from me. Stbx hasn''t shown that he can responsibly take care of a toddler. Yet. I know this will come in time, but for now...? How do I arrange this so stbx feels its fair, and it isn't overwhelming for my little boy?
 
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#28 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by DanishMom View Post
No, not every day. I do understand if he would want some extra time with your son in the beginning though. I'm thinking that if he could be with him two whole days a week that would be a good solution. I also do agree with the Harpy that it's going to be easier on your son if he'll learn to transition from mom's place to dad's place while he's young. Not saying that you should start overnights anytime soon but it's harder on kids if you wait until they are five or six - IMO

I don't blame you for having very negative emotions about your ex but believe me when I tell you that if your ex can become an involved dad in the future it's going to be so much easier on all of you. It will save both you and your son the heartache that comes with a dead beat dad. The pain that kids feel when they get older and realize that their dad doesn't care that much is indescribable and you would be the one to answer all the tough questions your son is going to ask.

The fact that he's been uninvolved does not mean that he has no love for his son or that it hasn't been really hard on him to be separated from him for two months. Spending time with him alone will get him involved. Of course it's sad that he didn't get involved sooner but it certainly is better than nothing. BTW, my dad was pretty uninvolved when I was a child but there is no doubt that he loves me a lot and we have a great relationship now and he is a great granddad to my son.

I think the most important thing here is that you need to look good in court after leaving the state for two months. I'm really worried how the judge will react to that. Above all you need legal counseling ASAP.
: I have to agree here. I think the judge or referee will be able to come up with a schedule and you all have to find peace with it. I don't see the judge saying everyday, all day. I can however see the judge saying there will be set times such as 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. one or two evenings gradually until they are able to build up to overnight visitation. The reality is, no matter how ugly it may be, we created these children with someone and until they do something to get their parental rights snatched or completely drop off the face of the earth (which it seems that mine has done
) we will have to deal with the other party involved. I am sorry that you are not pleased with his notion of taking you into court, but please remember you want to give the appearance of keeping your son accessible to his dad, otherwise, the courts will make it messier for the both of you.
 
#29 ·
are you chatting with your ex, if so , I would switch to email, and keep all your tones bland and businesslike, even better if you can get an attorney to do the communicating with his attorney.

Do not let him feel you out for vulnerabilities. There are 2 ways to do visits. One is you let him have standard, with overnights the other is do something unusual like several hours every day, most moms work this out to avoid overnights.

It seems like your ex has an agenda, which is another reason to have less exchanges there is less opportunities for him to make up crap about you and lie to the courts about it.

If you are ok to granting overnights, just stick to the fact that you need your time uninterrupted state, and restate, I want my weekend and am willing to give him his weekend and I don't want my time with the child chopped up.

You don't owe him anything for taking off with the kid, it was your right and you are back before the court ordered you back, so don't act like you feel guilty or owe him anything, he could have gone in the first day you were gone and got an order for you to return the child.
 
#30 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Socks for Supper View Post

However, NO. You cannot take him from his Mama every day, especially since he hasnt seen you in 2 months. That will scare him.

The court will argue that's what you did to him/your son. You will have to give some make-up time to show you're willingness to parent together or they'll think you're keeping him for yourself.
 
#31 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by pranamama View Post
You don't owe him anything for taking off with the kid, it was your right and you are back before the court ordered you back, so don't act like you feel guilty or owe him anything, he could have gone in the first day you were gone and got an order for you to return the child.
Really? I would have to disagree. If it's her right to take off with the kid for 2 months then isn't it also ex's right to take off with the kid for 2 months and not let her see him? The ex has just as much right to the kid as the mom does, assuming they were married and/or his name is on the birth certificate and he hasn't had his rights revoked by the court. NEITHER one has a right to take the kid for months at a time and not let him see the other parent (unless there is abuse towards the kid happening and taking him out of the state was the only way possible to keep the kid safe).

bestofpercy (says Owen)
 
#32 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
Really? I would have to disagree. If it's her right to take off with the kid for 2 months then isn't it also ex's right to take off with the kid for 2 months and not let her see him?
Um, no. (Steph, is that really you?) What SFS did was wrong, and both she and the boy are paying for it now. But you don't correct that by messing with the child further.
 
#33 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger_rodgers View Post
Um, no. (Steph, is that really you?) What SFS did was wrong, and both she and the boy are paying for it now. But you don't correct that by messing with the child further.
You know *I* agree with that..... but does/will a Judge? That's the question. It's not a matter of whether I or you or anyone else agrees with it. I know you know me better and know I would NEVER advocate anything that would hurt a child. But, unfortunately, the courts don't always see it that way


ETA- my point about it being ex's right to take the kid for 2 months was kinda tongue in cheek.... just a reminder that if the mom can do it, the dad can too (legally). I'm not saying it's right MORALLY.
 
#34 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by StephandOwen View Post
You know *I* agree with that..... but does/will a Judge? That's the question. It's not a matter of whether I or you or anyone else agrees with it. I know you know me better and know I would NEVER advocate anything that would hurt a child. But, unfortunately, the courts don't always see it that way


ETA- my point about it being ex's right to take the kid for 2 months was kinda tongue in cheek.... just a reminder that if the mom can do it, the dad can too (legally). I'm not saying it's right MORALLY.
That was the way I understood it Steph. Of course you wouldn't suggest that the ex took off with the child for two months. There was no doubt (to me anyway) that you were talking about how the judge would see it.
 
#36 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by ginger_rodgers View Post
Well, maybe the judges are less reasonable where you are. I can't imagine that sort of result coming down around here -- the courtroom would be jammed with social workers & psychologists on appeal.
No, actually the Judge we have (not in Kentucky- in Michigan) was *very* reasonable. I'm sure it didn't/doesn't hurt that we were in a small town where everyone knew everyone else and I graduated high school (in a class of 14) with the Judge's oldest son so I had known the Judge for years.


HOWEVER, I've been a member of this board for many years. I've seen some women go through hell fighting to keep their kids safe. I know that there are Judges out there who wouldn't hesitate to give the dad much more visitation than the child can reasonably handle. I remember a case (I can't remember if it was on this board or another one) where the mom fought "too hard" and came off looking like she was trying to keep the dad from the kid so the Judge gave the dad custody and the mom visitation.

All I'm saying is that once you go to court- anything can happen. You can be absolutely sure, in your mind, that you're right and everything will go your way. But nobody can predict how a Judge will rule that day.
 
#37 ·
I disagree, if a mom has no money and her relationship is not working, and she moves in with friends family and it takes her ex 2 months to get to the courts and file something, she doesn't owe him 2 months of parenting time.

I have lost my time to an ex not following a parenting plan and I didn't ever get awarded makeup time, not for a weekend and not for months at a time. I was also not fully reimbursed for my costs to enforce the parenting plan.

Socks for supper doesn't even have a parenting plan so she has done nothing wrong, she is even returning before there are any court orders on the childs residence.
 
#38 ·
I'll chime in here and say that Steph is probably right in terms of the court's view. Of course, stbx's attorney and any court will say that I deprived him of visitation for 2 months, and LEGALLY anyway, he could do the same to me without fear of reprisal (right now where there is as of yet no visitation order). The courts, of course, wouldn't order any make up time for me taking ds for so long, but they'll certainly factor that behavior into the custody decision.

Which is why I'm going back ASAP to maintain frequent visitation between stbx and ds BEFORE a visitation order is set.

I am going to bend over backward to be the good guy here at this point. I think stbx will totally hang himself. And while I'm certainly concerned about my child's well-being and happiness (since stbx has never really taken care of him before), I'm going to bite my tongue, and offer suggestions to him gently about how to make his parenting time with ds easier on him. My motive is of course, to make the time with his dad comfortable for ds, but if stbx thinks I'm criticizing or controlling about parenting he will be vindictive, as pp pointed out. And stbx is primarily a very selfish lazy person, so if something's easier for him, and he feels like he can get more while expending less effort, he will always go the easier route.

I dont think he'll last 2 weeks with taking ds every day, even if it is only 4-5 hours at a time. Ds is teething.


2 whole days with a teething jet-lagged toddler will make him run for the hills.
 
#39 ·
:
And maybe DS will get a stomach virus while he's on the plane that will suddenly come on during a visit?


Just one comment, your gentle parenting advice will still be taken as criticism... So be careful. Most likely, as I've learned the hard way, it's best to say nothing. Although later you may be taken to task for not giving advice.
Ack, these things suck!
 
#40 ·
:

Don't waste your breath with offering parenting tips, advice, or anything...even under the guise of helping him out or making it easier on him. He doesn't care what you think, and even if he pretends to care I guarantee it'll be presented in court this way:

"SFS refuses to turn over child without a litany of demands and expectations for STBX, creating a stressful transitonal environment for DS"

Therefore. When he comes to get child, child is ready to walk out the door. You give child a big kiss and hug, you say bye to child and hand diaper bag to STBX. Close the door, and come vent to us about the whole thing...but don't tell HIM anything other than 'have a great time'.
 
#41 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by grass67hopper View Post
:
And maybe DS will get a stomach virus while he's on the plane that will suddenly come on during a visit?


Just one comment, your gentle parenting advice will still be taken as criticism... So be careful. Most likely, as I've learned the hard way, it's best to say nothing. Although later you may be taken to task for not giving advice.
Ack, these things suck!
Yes, I'm trying to balance in my mind what would be inappropriate to tell him, or what would be just plain neglectful to keep from him. Because he hasnt been around ds for 2 months, obviously there are some developmental changes in ds that stbx isnt aware of. I really think I need to be as open as possible with him about letting him know where ds is in terms of abilities, in order to keep ds safe from stbx's lack of vigilance. We're talking about a 16 month old, here!

What I decided was appropriate to share with stbx was not necessarily instructional, so much as informational. Such as:

1) Ds can now move furniture around to use as step stools, and quite often is found on tables, counters, etc. if not watched CONSTANTLY. He loves to climb anything right now.

2) In the past few weeks, he has developed an affinity for sucking on cords
. Stbx has cords EVERYWHERE in our house/the house in Maine that ds will experiment on.

3) Ds can now open doors, if he can reach the handle.

These are just a few things I could think of. I think its only fair to stbx that he is informed of these things, not only to save his sanity, but to protect my son. Stbx has never really been involved or observant about ds's ever blossoming capabilities, and even less so now, because he hasnt been around him recently. He is also pretty clueless about being vigilant - like I mentioned previously, his main activity is to hang out on the couch and watch TV while ds careens around the house. But if he tries that now, ds will be on the bathroom counter, getting into the medicine cabinet, etc, etc.

Also, one of my HUGE contentions with stbx was his unwillingness to properly childproof our house. He REFUSED to install drawer latches because he didn't want to mar his expensive cabinets, and wouldn't install a top-of-stairs gate for the same reason - he didn't want holes in his precious woodwork. I had to remove all the knives from the drawers and keep them out of ds' reach, the stairs were an absolute nightmare. We slept upstairs, so ds and I slept in our room with the door closed (to prevent him from waking and taking a stroll down the stairs), which meant the room got freezing, because the only heat was wood heat, and the room didnt get heated with the door closed all night. Now that ds can open doors, though...

So anyway, you can see my concern. Also, stbx owns guns, and quite often he would lean them against a wall or let them hang out in a corner, much to my annoyance, and regardless of my harping on him about the danger. He thinks I overreact about guns in general. I hate them. He thinks kids should be exposed to them and its perfectly okay for a gun to just be leaning on a wall for a child to explore (if its not loaded). He counters that if its forbidden, it will be more attractive. I agree with that sentiment regarding a lot of things - BUT ITS A GUN!!! Lock it up! He owns several, so there's always a gun around somewhere. He has a locking gun safe, but its full. really. The man owns over 20 guns. I am seriously concerned that he might put them in a closet, but ds can open doors now, and stbx wont want to install locks because of his precious woodwork...Plus, if ds is in the habit of handling even safely unloaded firearms, what the hell would stop him from playing with a gun that might be loaded at someone else's house? (stbx's family all hunts. They are a gun-happy bunch) This was an ongoing argument between stbx and I, but at least I was always there to keep ds' environment safe. Now that I'm not there? Its just going to be very hard for me.

I digress again. My stbx is all about himself. Really. I have reason to be concerned about ds' safety around his dad. Its not (all) because I'm controlling


So I'm going to try and let him know where ds is in terms of abilities, otherwise ds will be in danger, and stbx will be pissed off if ds, IDK, knocks over a gun and scratches it? But I will try not to be too overboard. Fire by trial is not a good idea in our situation, given stbx' complete lack of judgment regarding toddler-safety.
 
#42 ·
Gosh, I'd think the kidproofing and gun negligence is definitely something you can bring up in court. That's not controlling, it's safety!
And they do get to be such little monkeys!
If he refuses again, definitely take pictures.
As a PP recommended, if you can e-mail this information, you will have records of the exchange and then X cannot deny you telling him. This is very important. Again, document as much as possible!
ooh, I already feel this going your way in the end.
Let's practice patience together...
 
#44 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by grass67hopper View Post
I'm really stuck on this picture stuff (advice from my attorney)...
Do you have an old pictures with guns laying around in your house?
If so, that's a great evidence to submit as to why you left with DC.
Hope you find some good pics!!!!
I actually DID have a couple pics before I left that showed a rifle just standing in the corner. In the move though, I think I misplaced the camera card that the pics were on...I also had pictures of ALL our marital assets - vehicle, campers, etc, in case stbx went nuts and trashed everything out of spite. I've looked for the memory card, and alas, I think its gone
 
#45 ·
I've finally talked to the lawyer I want to hire to represent me. She counseled - absolutely do not come back to Maine early. If I go back to Maine early and give stbx fair visitation, I will not be able to leave the state. She told me to stay put, fly back on Feb 3rd, or immediately before our first mediation appt (Feb 4).

I asked her wouldnt the court see then that I'm withholding ds from his dad, and would I be in danger of having ds taken from me and given to stbx?
She said No. "No court is going to take that baby from you. I wouldn't even be afraid of losing custody of him. You've been his primary caregiver since birth. Dont even worry about it".

??????????

For real? Everyone here on MDC, as well as the other lawyer I spoke with, seems to think otherwise - to get my ass back to Maine ASAP.

My brain is going to explode from all this conflicting advice.
:

I kind of argued with her, asking her if she was SURE, and she said, "You're paying me for my advice. I'm giving it to you. If you dont want to have to move back to tMaine for good, then stay there."
 
#46 ·
Are you hiring her because she's telling you what you want to hear?

I vehemently disagree with her, one because that makes your stbx's case stronger, and two because taking a child away from their father is wrong, and three because by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong, and four you will likely have to bear the cost of long distance...cross country...transportation expenses for your child to visit dad....and I could keep going but the essence of this is I'm pretty worried for you here.

Wowzer. Best of luck to you with all of this...keep us updated...
Theoretica
 
#48 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong
I have too agree that long distance visitation schedules are much much harder on the kid. He wont be that old before he'll be gone for most of the summer. 3-4 weeks without you is much worse than every other weekend schedules. I'd move back and set up standard visitation.
 
#50 ·
I would move to where the child was a resident, at some point, maybe not today but probably before the parenting plan. I wouldn't want to send my child off all summer and every Christmas which is how many long distance arrangements work assuming you won the custody in the first place.
 
#51 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretica View Post
Are you hiring her because she's telling you what you want to hear?

I vehemently disagree with her, one because that makes your stbx's case stronger, and two because taking a child away from their father is wrong, and three because by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong, and four you will likely have to bear the cost of long distance...cross country...transportation expenses for your child to visit dad....and I could keep going but the essence of this is I'm pretty worried for you here.

Wowzer. Best of luck to you with all of this...keep us updated...
Theoretica
Well, she was referred to me from several people I trusted, and I've been told twice that she's the "best" family law attorney in the area, w/30+ years experience. So I wanted to hire her initially, but now I'm pretty skeptical about her advice.

I cant hire her anyway because her schedule doesnt fit my court schedule...she referred me to someone else, so I'll be talking to him tomorrow.

I am divided about her advice though. Her main point was that if my ultimate goal is to be able to live in Oregon w/my kid, then to stay here. And that is my ultimate goal. I know that it will be hard to do the long distance parenting thing. I agree thats very hard on kids as well as parents. I have to say, I dont think stbx will exercise his visitation after the first year or so. #1- he's cheap and wont agree to pay for his own travel to come visit ds. #2 - he works non-stop in the summer, and wont want to take ds for prolonged amounts of time.

I will see what the new attorney says about it tomorrow.

I am SO confused. I wish this was all over.
 
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