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#91 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 10:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mizelenius View Post



I don't understand this.  So, only people who can give birth should be allowed to adopt?  Am I somehow going to be a better parent because I don't have fertility issues?

 

There are MANY, many, many parents who have never given their children up for adoption, and these children suffer from abuse and neglect.  There should be more children up for adoption-- not less.  Of course, when it's done unethically or for self-serving reasons of the family (family is embarrassed), then it goes without saying that it's wrong, but I can't imagine anyone on MDC being OK with adoption under those circumstances, so it's redundant to bring up.



The problem is that adopting couples often act like they have some god-given right to parent, like they are such better parents than the birth mom could ever be, and that is why they are oh-so-deserving of a healthy baby, all of which are false assumptions promoted by big egos. No one wants to admit that there are extremely selfish reasons for adopting, but anyone who has dealt with the hell of this "loving choice" knows how incredibly selfish and self-serving most of the players in the process are. There absolutely should be less adoption. There should be more support for mothers world wide to care for their own children. Just because this is MDC doesn't mean everyone is covered in fairy dust and good karma. At the very least, there is a whole lot of ignorance and denial about the suffering caused by adoption.


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#92 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 10:07 AM
 
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Go read the adoption forum.... its all over the place on there. Read adoptive parent blogs. Its disgusting.


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#93 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 01:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

When is it appropriate-

When the parents are deceased and there is NO family member able to take the child

When the parents are severely mentally ill( schizoprhenic)

When the parents are heavily on drugs and been thru treatment to no avail and even then I think legal guardianship is the answer.

 

Fighting for social change- well step one is not partaking in the corruption- not profiting or benefiting off others losses.

 

There are many adoptees who are pro abortion- I am not one of them.... tho I do understand where they are coming from and it does not matter to me if the abortion rate goes up in all honesty tho I do think education is important there to that the women having the abortions have an idea the impact it will have on their life.

 

Adoption is not the answer to fertility problems.

 



What about women who DO NOT WANT their babies? You cannot make a child wanted when it is not. Oh, yeah, except for the adoptive parents.

 

Do you really think that leaving a child sitting in an orphanage in China without his feet or palate fixed is partaking in corruption? You know, my family is "done" in many ways, but we have resources and love to reach out to a child in need. I think it's cruel to suggest otherwise honestly.

 

And I know people to like mention fertility problems as the reason people adopt, get one more dig in there toward the nasty people who want to open their lives to a child who NEEDS them, but most of the folks I know who are adopting are in similar situations to my own- already have kids.

 

I just never realized there was so much vile and spew directed at adoptive parents. I understand the industry may not be great, and I don't think people should profit off of placing a child. But women around the world throughout time have given up their children because of one reason or another. I agree that the reasons that can be fixed should be- women should be supported to keep their kids. However, all the anger in the world hurled (like vomit, some of this) at adoptive parents isn't going to fix or change a thing.

 

Emilie I'm sorry you do not feel like your adoptive parents' real child. But that is not a problem because of adoption, that is a problem  particular to YOUR situation and it doesn't have to be that way. You got screwed to be unwanted once and then to feel like you were not a real child the second time. And you're right, if your parents said they felt that way there should have been some education in order.

 

 

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#94 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 02:39 PM
 
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this thread is from 09 ... irked.gif


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#95 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 04:32 PM
 
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So many of my family members and friends are on both sides of the adoption (have been adopted, have adopted, and some cases, are both adopted and have adopted)-- and this just has not been the experience for them at all.  Thus, when you say "often," I just can't relate to that. One of my friends really gets upset when people say her daughter is lucky to have her.  She tells them that it's on the contrary-- SHE (as the adoptive mother) is lucky to have her daughter.  She also makes a point to honor birth mothers.  No one I know has EVER put down birth parents.  With my own husband (who considers his adoptive parents his REAL parents-- he's not easily offended by any means, but he would be if anyone thought otherwise), I  think of how hard it was for his birth mother.  He was adopted as a toddler and from another country . . .I have a feeling his mother made a very painful choice.  He was dropped off at a police station.  How could anyone think less of a birth parent for giving up a piece of their heart?  (Let's leave people with serious drug addictions out of it-- at the time that they do it, they may have no idea what is going on.)

 

There is one member of my family who was adopted.  Years later, he found out that he was given up for adoption, but the rest of his siblings (who lived in the same town) were not, and his birth parents wanted nothing to do with him.  He is the only one I know of who has had some serious issues, but it's not due to his adoptive parents, but the way his birth parents have disregarded him.  Sadly, one of his siblings (birth) has only been in contact with him recently, but only because she thought she'd get money after he dies.  Once she found out he was broke, she stopped calling.

 

You say there are selfish reasons for adopting-- sure there are!  ANY parent who chose to parent is, in many ways, selfish  My life is wholly better because of my children (and I didn't adopt them).  Am I completely selfish, however, for being a parent?  No way.  Any good parent-- no matter how their children came to them-- sacrifices a lot.  It doesn't mean we don't also get a tremendous benefit, but we also give. 

 

I agree with you that there should be more support for mothers, but I think this applies to all mothers.  In the last week I've seen toddlers getting spanked and yelled at.  Toddlers!  There is so much we should be doing to improve parent education, as well as make our lifestyle in the US better suited for parenting and children in general.

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The problem is that adopting couples often act like they have some god-given right to parent, like they are such better parents than the birth mom could ever be, and that is why they are oh-so-deserving of a healthy baby, all of which are false assumptions promoted by big egos. No one wants to admit that there are extremely selfish reasons for adopting, but anyone who has dealt with the hell of this "loving choice" knows how incredibly selfish and self-serving most of the players in the process are. There absolutely should be less adoption. There should be more support for mothers world wide to care for their own children. Just because this is MDC doesn't mean everyone is covered in fairy dust and good karma. At the very least, there is a whole lot of ignorance and denial about the suffering caused by adoption.



 


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#96 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 04:37 PM
 
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I agree. . . there are so, so, SO many dysfunctional families in GENERAL, and SO many children (who are living with their birth parents) who feel unwanted.  What does that mean-- should everyone just stop having children?

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Emilie I'm sorry you do not feel like your adoptive parents' real child. But that is not a problem because of adoption, that is a problem  particular to YOUR situation and it doesn't have to be that way. You got screwed to be unwanted once and then to feel like you were not a real child the second time. And you're right, if your parents said they felt that way there should have been some education in order.

 

 



 


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#97 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 07:38 PM
 
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I am not my parents real child. 

My mother expressed this greatly when she stated to me that they were concerned my adoptive brother- their bio child would never have any children of his own and then they would not get to have any real grandchildren.

sadly- I talk to a lot of adoptees and my story is not uncommon.  I am not alone in feeling this way. I know it's not everyones experience but it is mine

 

I also grew up with people forever asking me which one of us was my parents real child. Ya know- my brother. I am not their real child.... and no one can tell me that I am. They don't even claim that I am.


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#98 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 07:43 PM
 
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That is terrible what your mother said to you.  If this is typical of what you went through growing up, then I understand why you have many serious reservations about adoption. 

 

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Originally Posted by Emilie2 View Post

I am not my parents real child. 

My mother expressed this greatly when she stated to me that they were concerned my adoptive brother- their bio child would never have any children of his own and then they would not get to have any real grandchildren.

sadly- I talk to a lot of adoptees and my story is not uncommon.  I am not alone in feeling this way. I know it's not everyones experience but it is mine



 

 


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#99 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 07:43 PM
 
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There is a difference in feeling unwanted by your biological parents and actually being unwanted by your biological parents- ya know- given away.

There is also a thing as being adoptive parents last choice- its a dynamic I don't wish on anyone...


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#100 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 08:02 PM
 
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Personally, I am always offended when I hear that the adoptive family is the "real" family.


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#101 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 08:07 PM
 
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I think my husband would be pretty offended if anyone told him that he was wrong about his own feelings and experiences about his family.

 

The bottom line is, everyone has had different experiences and reactions to things . . .it's pretty dangerous to take a black/white stance on most topics.  Ultimately, we only truly know our own lives.

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Personally, I am always offended when I hear that the adoptive family is the "real" family.



 

 


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#102 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 08:22 PM
 
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I understand what you're saying mizelenius, but I have witnessed too many adoptive parents basically brainwashing their kids into the mindset that they are their real family and the birth family, well, isn't. Often the birth mother is totally discounted. Sure, there are situations that are very open and the child knows their birthmom and she is part of the family, but more usual is intentional alienation from her. In international adoptions where a relationship is not possible, I have encountered an attitude the pretty much says the birth parents don't exist, even when contact is at least theoretically possible. It isn't fair to the birth parents OR the child.


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#103 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 09:52 PM
 
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Did you read my whole comment, including the last line?? Sometimes adoption is appropriate. Alot of times it's not. In any case where a child is "placed" for adoption, there is a likelyhood of coercion to one degree or another. Most mothers do not want to "place" their children, they just don't feel they have options. Children in other countries are "placed" because there is a breakdown in the social system which leaves the mother unsupported and desperate. These children don't need to be adopted, they need social change in their countries of birth so that they can stay with their families. But as long as there is money to be made, there will be corruption. Furthermore, I have known several families with children adopted abroad, and yet not a single one of them was in any way active in working for change to the policies which create so many abandoned children. Frankly, it's disgusting. The same can be said for domestic adoptions too. If there was active social change to accept and support mothers in less than ideal circumstances, there would be no adoption industry. Are there times when children are truly without fit parents? Sure, but those, as I said before, are the very small minority, In other words, if you really want a child, take one of the kids in foster care who come from situations of abuse, have disabilities and are otherwise disadvantaged.THEY need loving homes. But hands off the ones who's mothers are just scared.



This is the last time I'm responding to this thread.

 

Re:  the bolded:

 

Yes, social change needs to happen.  BUT - it is currently too late to enact social change that will save the children sitting in orphanages in other countries so that their birth mommies who are all unicorns farting butterflies to come back and claim them and make their lives whole again. Social change NEEDS to happen - but it hasn't yet. I'm not quite sure what I can do in China (or any other country really) to create this social change when people living there aren't calling for it already.

 

And, fertility issues is NOT the only reason people adopt. Seriously folks. I want to adopt, and I have an almost 3yo son. My parents adopted my younger brother AFTER they gave birth to me!  (they initially started the adoption process because they were told they couldn't get pregnant, but then they did get pregnant and decided they still wanted to adopt - since they had been assigned my older brother already and couldn't wait for him to come home).

 

As for "real families" - well, people can have more than one "real family". My older brothers "friend" used to tell him that my mom wasn't his real mom and so he didn't have to listen to her. Ummm...except she IS his real mom - one of them anyway.

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#104 of 107 Old 11-19-2011, 10:27 PM
 
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I just highly reccomend reading birth mother blogs and adoptee blogs before anyone adopts.

Why do you want to adopt? Can i ask?

And thank you Miz.  Sadly I find it is so common for these types of conversations to occur from possibly well meaning but uneducated adoptive parents.

 

Due to my circumstances it alarms me for an adoptive parent to have bio children as well... to me it is just a recipe for disaster...


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#105 of 107 Old 11-25-2011, 07:20 PM
 
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my fil has a bio son and an adoptive son and he loves them both tremendously there is not a difference between them other then personality differences any parent would have between children. My best friend has a biological child, an adoptive son and 3 foster children she hopes to adopt soon, she loves them all.

 

My mom was adopted as were her sister and brother, she was always told she wasn't wanted, that her other sister was the one they wanted. This had nothing to do with the fact that one was biological and one was not because they were both adopted. some people are just a$$holes like her adoptive mom, and you know what she still preferred that to living with her biological mom who she met later in life. The 3 kids she did keep out of the 10 she had all had terrible lives and my mom would have preferred her adoptive life to the one she would have had with her biological mother who later stole her biological granddaughters identity through a relationship she tried to build with my mother. My poor mom had 2 terrible mothers, she overcame it and was an amazing mother.

 

There are so many different possibilities in life, so many different people that just because one situation is a certain way does not mean all similiar situations are bad or good.  No one is advocating corrupt systems here, they are saying right here, right now there is a child that needs a home, a child that needs love and here are people willing to give that love, I just can't see how that's a bad thing in the right situation.

 

Do I think coercing someone into giving up their baby is a good thing? NO!  But for the baby with the drug addict parents, the dead parents, for the baby left to die somewhere, for the mom that just doesn't want a child then YES adoption into a loving family is a good thing. They should have people that love them, people that say we our together, we are a family, you belong to me and I belong to you! That's all people really want in life in the end, is to belong. so for the kid sitting in an orphanage or the kid being abused, yes adoption into a loving family is a good thing. For the woman who is pregnant and is being told she shouldn't keep her child because she is poor, single, etc then no, that's not good, that mother needs support.  From reading this thread I sort of feel like that is what most people are trying to say but somehow everything has gotten so stuck on the semantics, on the this is black this is white, life isn't black or white, it's not even just gray too, it's a million different colors and we need to see that.

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#106 of 107 Old 12-05-2011, 05:52 AM
 
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This is to the OP-

i have only read the first page of posts.  I see there is an adoption debate but havent read  it.

 

The point of my post is to explain that attitude can change everything. 

 

I am also a single mom, and i dont have much money either.  The difference is, that unlike you, i actively sought to get pregnant with my first and 2nd child. I am currently pregnant with my third, and very actively sought that for over a year.  I see everything from the point of view of the family, and the children and their relationships, rather than the relationship  with the father. I am not asking to hear any opinions about this at all. I am only   demonstrating a different point of view.

 

Although you might be unprepared for a 2nd  child in your family, there are many advantages to having one. For a start, your older child gets a sibling, 2ndly, the fact that they are relatively close in age can be advantageous as well, as far as their playing together, sharing activities and toys, and even friends. In the long term, it can only be a good thing that they have each other and you. Maybe you might add to your family later.

Where does the father fit in? That is up to him.  At the minimum he will be paying child support. Hopefully, he will play a more active role, especially if he's such a great guy as you say. As far as his opinion on abortion, i applaud his open mindedness, but not when you are not the consenting party.  Your body, your choice, and that is that. 

 

 You cannot control how he will react, but you can control how to build your family at this point.

 

 If you are a student, then all the better. There are many supportive mechanisms in place for student parents.

 

 

Yes, it will be hard, especially for the first year. But its only a year! Then it gets easier.  Im not saying it will be easy, but most things in life that  are  worthwhile are challenging.

 

I find myself looking at everything in the long term rather than the short term.  When you have a baby, that is for life, You have started a family.  Personally, i think family is the most important thing there is.

 

As for supporting yourself, cut yourself some slack. You are studying, you have  plenty of time to work on a career. As the kids get older, that will only get easier as they become more independent.

 

Go on public assistance, food stamps, and whatever else is out there to help  you and your children. They are there for a reason.

 

 

 

 

I really dont see how adoption is relevant in this scenario.

 

 

You can be single mom and love it!, even if its unplanned.

 

 

 

 

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#107 of 107 Old 12-05-2011, 06:08 AM
 
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this thread is from 09 ... irked.gif



Oh, i guess i just wasted my time :-)  gotta check those dates huh?

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