Could someone admit to not being perfect either please! - Page 4 - Mothering Forums

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#91 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 08:57 AM
 
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You said:

No, and I can certainly see why you would've been upset. However, in other contexts, this happens all the time, and life goes on. When you go to the doctor's, I bet you don't expect that your appointment will actually happen when scheduled, but you have some idea of how long you have for this appointment, and how long you're willing to wait.

My response:

They overbook and take patients even when they come in late. It is rude of them. And I left the practice that did this. The doctors I have now aren't late.

You said:

In my daughter's school, I don't think your conference circumstance would've been so serious an issue. One of three things would've happened:

1. Tardy parent would've been greeted and told politely that she had only five minutes before the next appointment, and would she prefer to come back or talk on the phone another time.


My response:

That is what should have happened. Hopefully, the teacher (who was new) will have learned from that.

You said:

2. Your child 2's teacher would've hastened to apologize for the way everything was scheduled so tightly and offered another meeting time, in person or by phone, and you'd have had a makeup conference within the week.


My response:

It was the only night meeting that I could meet with the teachers. I work during the day so was unable to meet at those times. The second teacher didn't let the meeting run late. Which is why I only had 5 minutes. Also, why should I have to be inconvenienced because one parent thought nothing of being late? People with your attitude towards being late really don't care about how many people they inconvenience because of their actions, they don't think it's a big deal. I carefully scheduled it at a time that I could attend. I even paid a babysitter for this so that the kids wouldn't be there.

You said:

3. Your child 2's teacher would've met with you for the full 15, and the tardy would knock on down the line. If you made it clear that your schedule was very tight and that meeting later would put you out, single parent working all the time etc., this would likely be the outcome.

My response:

So the second teacher, who wasn't running late should have had the other parents who were on time wait? I was the tardy parent, even if the reason I was tardy was because of the first parent at the first conference. Why should I have had to wait until the end because the other parent was tardy for the very first appointment of the night? Plus, that would have meant paying my babysitter for an extra 1 1/2 hours for the actions of another parent. Money I don't have.

You said:

Really, they're very flexible about meeting and communicating with parents here. I've gone in sometimes to schedule an appt with the principal, and been ushered in to see her instead.

My response:

Yes, I know they are flexible. There are 2 times a year that they have parent/teacher conferences. Only one of them is at night. The one that isn't, I make arrangements with the teacher to meet at 8 a.m. The one teacher (my daughter's kindergarten teacher who was the 2nd appointment that night) wouldn't meet with me at that time because she couldn't gaurantee that she could be on time. We had a phone conference in the evening.

They won't do this when there are night meetings, you either go during the listed times (the afternoon ones ran from 1:15-3:15) or you don't get to meet with the teacher.
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#92 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 10:54 AM
 
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Also, why should I have to be inconvenienced because one parent thought nothing of being late? People with your attitude towards being late really don't care about how many people they inconvenience because of their actions, they don't think it's a big deal. I carefully scheduled it at a time that I could attend.
aaaaaaaaaah goodmom. i have soo been there. i soooo know what you are talking about.

till i realised i hated living that way. always thinking of my inconvenience. it started to feel like i was no longer supporting the world. that life was all about me. i realised i felt so alone. who knows what the other mom's story was. perhaps she had to take another child to emergency.

esp. when i had gone thru the hoop to make sure i was on time.

i must say its brougth a lot of peace in my life these days. i have applied that to many things in my life. like road rage. me being the rager - esp. at people cutting me off on the freeway.

perhaps i am idealistic. but i would like to think i live in a community as a group - not alone as an individual.

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#93 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 12:23 PM
 
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aaaaaaaaaah goodmom. i have soo been there. i soooo know what you are talking about.

till i realised i hated living that way. always thinking of my inconvenience. it started to feel like i was no longer supporting the world. that life was all about me. i realised i felt so alone. who knows what the other mom's story was. perhaps she had to take another child to emergency.

esp. when i had gone thru the hoop to make sure i was on time.

i must say its brougth a lot of peace in my life these days. i have applied that to many things in my life. like road rage. me being the rager - esp. at people cutting me off on the freeway.

perhaps i am idealistic. but i would like to think i live in a community as a group - not alone as an individual.
But when an individual inconveniences everybody else? I wasn't the last parent who had an appointment with the first teacher. I was the third. There were more appointments to go. And everyone after the first parent didn't get in at their scheduled time even though they showed up on time.

If there was an emergency on the other parent's part, then that parent should have rescheduled. I would have out of consideration for other parents. Besides, if there was an emergency, such as taking a child to the hospital, chances are I wouldn't show up anyway. But the other parent didn't have an emergency. The other parent was just late. And that is according to the teacher.

And the only time other people being late bothers me is when it has an impact on other people, whether it's the next appointment or a child anxiously awaiting a playdate. Sorry, but being late doesn't just affect one person, it has an impact on everyone who is scheduled after you.

And if I were the type of person to be late and not think it was a big deal, I would make sure that I was the one with the last appointment (all the while letting the teacher know that I may be a little late) of the day so that my being late didn't have a negative impact on someone else.
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#94 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 01:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jujyfruitbaby View Post
No, and I can certainly see why you would've been upset. However, in other contexts, this happens all the time, and life goes on. When you go to the doctor's, I bet you don't expect that your appointment will actually happen when scheduled, but you have some idea of how long you have for this appointment, and how long you're willing to wait.
.
I wish it would happen when scheduled, and on many occasions I think it is delayed because someone else was 5 minutes late, then someone else was 5 minutes late, and now I am the 7th appointment of the day and stuck for 35 minutes in the waiting room...

Like I said, I understand that life goes on, but it is nice when people realize that they have delayed you, and apologize instead of insisting that "such is life", and "it's not a big deal", you know?

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#95 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 01:40 PM
 
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As for the business example...I wouldn't go with that one. You have to expect that customers will be utter flakes and be pleased when they're not.
I am not concerned for my own time, I am more concerned for all the other people that came in and are forced to wait because of the customer that was late before them.

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#96 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 03:35 PM
 
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And the only time other people being late bothers me is when it has an impact on other people, whether it's the next appointment or a child anxiously awaiting a playdate. Sorry, but being late doesn't just affect one person, it has an impact on everyone who is scheduled after you.

And if I were the type of person to be late and not think it was a big deal, I would make sure that I was the one with the last appointment (all the while letting the teacher know that I may be a little late) of the day so that my being late didn't have a negative impact on someone else.
I think the problem, Goodmom, is that not everyone views time and the effects of lateness the same way. If this sort of thing happens to you often, might it help to speak up?

I have a good friend from Mexico who's very much aware of the punctuality/culture business, because where she's from it's perfectly acceptable to show up hours late. And that's definitely not the case here. She's also very, very polite and has a way of making everyone feel at ease. When she has to be someplace bang on the dot, and other people might make her late, she just says so. Really nicely, but she'll just let them know that she has no wiggle room and she'll get a commitment from them for the time, and give them a way out ("just call me, it's OK, but please do it as soon as you know") if they have to cancel and reschedule.

I used to do the same thing when my life was crazier, during my divorce -- I'd let people know if five minutes could make or break me, and they'd usually be very conscientious about seeing that I got in and out on time. (Now that I have more leeway, I'll sit past appointment times; I just bring work with me to do, or use the time to relax.)

I don't know how well that might work in other places -- I can see that in some places, if you said, "I absolutely must be on time," people might not take you seriously because you're going so strongly against the current of the culture. And they'd say "Oh yes, of course," and then turn up a half-hour late acting like they'd just performed a miracle. Around here it works pretty well, though.

(I had a funny experience in San Francisco last summer -- I was visiting friends who'd been brought up to be punctual, and my train was delayed. They were fine with it, though, because they were communicating by iPhone, and they were having a ball tracking my progress via one of their apps. I think they'd have been much itchier about the time if the hadn't had the gadgetry to play with!)

Seriously, of course I've been in the position of sitting past appointment times, watching staff visit with people and laugh, & watching the clock tick away precious minutes and thinking, "How rude! How thoughtless! Don't they consider anyone else?! Why can't they just get down to business?" But the reality is that not everyone is on so urgent a schedule. Around here, for instance, it would be considered very discourteous to hustle someone out the door without a good long goodbye just because they were a few minutes over their time, even with people waiting in plain view. And that goes with a more general and very firm sense that just about nothing is worth running around like a chicken with your head cut off, and that family & relationships come before business.

I think that in the end, if you're not in an on-time-or-early place, all you can really do is let people know what you need, try to make punctuality happen when you can, and have a way of adjusting to the local sense of time when you can't.
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#97 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 05:15 PM
 
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Oh, and Goodmom, I really find that you have to tell the school people when you're hiring sitters so you can go talk to them, or when you have some other situation that involves your putting out money or time you don't have to accommodate the way they do things. Otherwise it just won't occur to them. Until someone brings up a problem, they assume everything is fine and that you have the Large Imaginary Network of Nonexistent Friends and Family just waiting to come sit for you whenever you call.

(Frankly, I've always thought the parent-teacher conferences were weird. I go in there and they tell me about my daughter like I don't live with her. None of what they're saying is news. I know how well she can read because I sat with her last night while she read. I know how she gets along with the other kids because we have them over and she goes to them, and I make a point of getting to know her friends' parents. If I really want to see what's going on in the classroom, I can go, sit, and watch. I talk to the teacher weekly, at least. But they want to have a conference, so OK.)

I went through this with the after-school-program and PTA people, who are generally the stay-home moms. I made a big stink about the fact that they were scheduling non-child-friendly events in a way that meant only parents from two-parent families or well-off families could come, because scheduling things in the evening on a school night means single parents have to hire sitters. It hadn't occurred to them -- they were all from wealthy, two-parent families. So we figured out a way to make communication/participation work better with all families. I'm going through the same thing with another group now.
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#98 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
 
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I think the problem, Goodmom, is that not everyone views time and the effects of lateness the same way. If this sort of thing happens to you often, might it help to speak up?
That is rather clear. You don't think it's a big deal to inconvenience everybody. I think it's rude and inconsiderate.
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#99 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 06:35 PM
 
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Oh, and Goodmom, I really find that you have to tell the school people when you're hiring sitters so you can go talk to them, or when you have some other situation that involves your putting out money or time you don't have to accommodate the way they do things. Otherwise it just won't occur to them. Until someone brings up a problem, they assume everything is fine and that you have the Large Imaginary Network of Nonexistent Friends and Family just waiting to come sit for you whenever you call.
The notice specifically stated not to bring the kids. This was the Kindergarten and 2nd grade parent teacher conferences.

They would have to be idiots not to assume that when I didn't have the kids with me, that there was a babysitter involved. Seriously, these are teachers, they should know that there is going to be some kind of babysitting going on given the age groups.

It doesn't matter who was doing the babysitting, what matters is that someone else took time out of their schedule at my request (this happened to be paid to do so) to watch my kids for the times that I carefully scheduled with both teachers.

BTW, the parents after me also didn't have their kids with them. I bet they had babysitter's as well.

BTW, even if I was still a SAHM, it would have been rude and inconsiderate for the parent to have been late and the teacher not to have made the late parent wait.
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#100 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 06:41 PM
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That is rather clear. You don't think it's a big deal to inconvenience everybody. I think it's rude and inconsiderate.
I think what she's saying is that she doesn't think everyone is inconvenienced by lateness in all situations, and that if timeliness is especially important to you for a certain appointment you might have better results if you let people know that up front.

Most of the time, I'm fine with someone being late to an appointment. Last Friday, for example, I had a student who was a good ten minutes late to a meeting we'd set up. It didn't both me at all - I did some reading and enjoyed having a few minutes to relax. I wasn't on any kind of time crunch that day, and I didn't feel inconvenienced.

I have an appointment with another student this Wednesday, to take a test. She's scheduled to come at 2:00 and I need to leave promptly at 3:00. I let her know ahead of time that I wouldn't be able to stay past 3:00, and if she came late she wouldn't have the full hour to complete her test.

I am think scheduling a bunch of back-to-back appointments is generally poor planning, because something always seems to throw off the schedule.

 
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#101 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 06:42 PM
 
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I am not concerned for my own time, I am more concerned for all the other people that came in and are forced to wait because of the customer that was late before them.

Not to mention the lost business. I changed my primary care physician because they were always late. I have left hair salons when they run more than 5-10 minutes over my scheduled time. And I didn't go back. And I let them know why.

Now, if I were an employer and had an employee who was 5-10 minutes late all the time, I wouldn't care as long as they made up the time AND it didn't have an impact on customers by having them have to wait for the tardy employee or other employees by them having to work until the tardy employee gets there (even if it is the manager who is covering, that is still unacceptable). That employee would be gone if it did.
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#102 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 07:34 PM
 
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The notice specifically stated not to bring the kids. This was the Kindergarten and 2nd grade parent teacher conferences.

They would have to be idiots not to assume that when I didn't have the kids with me, that there was a babysitter involved. Seriously, these are teachers, they should know that there is going to be some kind of babysitting going on given the age groups.
Ya, you'd think so. And at our school, you'd think they'd realized that, with about a quarter of the kids from divorced families and many more dual-income, having to send someone to pick up the kids midafternoon was going to cause some serious problems. But I sat and talked with the principal about this -- she's a single mom too -- and she actually said to me, "But -- don't you think it's kind of a choice for the parents who come pick up their kids?" I almost fell off my chair. Yes, it's true we have a lot of SAHMs and a low FRL rate, but that's certainly not how it is across the board. No, it is not a choice for us to avoid working jobs involving real money and benefits so that we can be available to pick up the kids in the middle of the day, or start working the phones, when the babysitter fails to show. So we had a talk about that.

Quote:
It doesn't matter who was doing the babysitting, what matters is that someone else took time out of their schedule at my request (this happened to be paid to do so) to watch my kids for the times that I carefully scheduled with both teachers.

BTW, the parents after me also didn't have their kids with them. I bet they had babysitter's as well.
If it were me, and I needed timely, and after I explained this the school seemed unable to oblige, I'd just start bringing the kids along. When told I should've left them at home, I'd explain the issue. If we were turned away (which I can't imagine here), I'd have followed up with a letter to the teacher, with copies to the principal and superintendant. (I know a lot of moms don't like to do this kind of thing for fear of retribution, but I've never been very scared of teachers and feel able to protect my kid. There are also lessons to be learned from watching your parents stand up.)
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#103 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 09:11 PM
 
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I think the key here is the jujyfruitbaby's school is atypical. And, from what you've said, your whole area.

Where I live, it is simply the expectation that you are on time for things that have "times". Of course people are on occasion, late, but that is the exception, not the norm. It happens once, you figure out how to make it not happen again. And we have the normal population of families of small children who poop as they are walking out the door and we have traffic and other obstacles to being on time, just like everyone else. Somehow, we manage. It's not an opressive burden for me to get my kids to school on time, or me to work on time. I'm just doing my small part to keep things running smoothly. Because in my world, the late person in the wrench in the gears. That is a place I dislike being unless it's for some noble cause. The right to not pay attention to the clock in not one of those IMO.
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#104 of 107 Old 09-20-2009, 11:33 PM
 
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I think the key here is the jujyfruitbaby's school is atypical. And, from what you've said, your whole area.
It may be -- although in my experience living various places, large swaths of the US are atypical when it comes to time, then. I think in general, though you certainly couldn't hold every community to it, the further north and east you go the more the clock rules.

I was just thinking about the degree of negotiation that does go on with the school. Dd is six, and today she had about a half-hour's worth of homework; there's homework every night. I think this is silly for a six-year-old, and besides there are other things that are important for her to learn while not at school, like how to swim. So I have taken to writing in her little home-school folder things like, "Dd is still working on ____ and should have it complete tomorrow or Thursday." So far I've heard no complaints.

Sooner or later, I'm sure that some teacher at some conference will urge me to see that dd does _____ or concentrates on learning ______, and I will have to have a look and see if I agree. I'm aware that the teacher is being leaned on heavily to see that the kids pass certain tests, but this is the school's problem, not ours. There are also pedagogical models of the school's that I think are helpful, and others that I'm less interested in using on dd. So long as she stays out of trouble, though, and is not an obvious problem kid, I think I'll pretty much be able to pick and choose what we do at home.
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#105 of 107 Old 09-21-2009, 12:45 AM
 
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I was just thinking about the degree of negotiation that does go on with the school. Dd is six, and today she had about a half-hour's worth of homework; there's homework every night. I think this is silly for a six-year-old, and besides there are other things that are important for her to learn while not at school, like how to swim. So I have taken to writing in her little home-school folder things like, "Dd is still working on ____ and should have it complete tomorrow or Thursday." So far I've heard no complaints.

Sooner or later, I'm sure that some teacher at some conference will urge me to see that dd does _____ or concentrates on learning ______, and I will have to have a look and see if I agree. I'm aware that the teacher is being leaned on heavily to see that the kids pass certain tests, but this is the school's problem, not ours. There are also pedagogical models of the school's that I think are helpful, and others that I'm less interested in using on dd. So long as she stays out of trouble, though, and is not an obvious problem kid, I think I'll pretty much be able to pick and choose what we do at home.
I agree 100%, wholeheartedly with the above!

Homework is just unnecessary busywork. Too many stupid worksheets and worksheets definitely DO NOT grow dendrites!!! Recent research has also shown homework has absolutely NO educational benefits for children, particularly those in lower elementary.

If my students do not learn what they need to pass those tests IN my classroom or getting the interventions they need during the school day (not during recess -- recess should NEVER be taken away!), then the school and me, as their teacher, are not doing our jobs well enough and we (the school and teacher) need to find the hole in the learning process for that child.

I try to NOT give homework every year and even send out a letter stating my reasons and the recent research against homework, but parents are adamant about receiving homework. Although, I tell them over and over again... the best work you can do with your child at home is to read, read, read and talk to them about what they are reading.

My ds is a first grader and we are struggling with homework. It is just too much and we both have better things to do with our time... long bike rides looking at all the shore birds, learning to play the guitar, going rock climbing, etc. Additionally, my ds has a lot of struggles with handwriting, his fine motor skills are slowly developing, therefore all the worksheets are just torturous for him. Finally, in all honestly, after having taught 20 1st graders all day long, the last thing I want to do it come home and do it some more.

I am conferencing with his teacher this week about an alternate homework plan for him that will include all the extra-curricular activities we do together.
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#106 of 107 Old 09-21-2009, 01:25 AM
 
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I'M NOT PERFECT EITHER! I'm really really good at being late too, especially since having my daughter... I know you didn't ask for advice so just skip the rest if you don't want any... but I have 2 strategies that have been working really well for me so thought I would share...

1. I set all my clocks fast.... I try not to pay attention as to exactly how fast they are so I can't trick myself into thinking I have more time.. I just convince myself that whatever time my clock says is what it is so I better get my a** in gear.

On top of setting the clocks fast....

2. I plan on getting places 15 minutes early, so if I am supposed to be somewhere at 8 am... I tell myself I have to be there at 7:45... then in the am, if I get behind and I am "on-time" for 8 am I am still a couple mins early... I also have things in the car that I just leave there to occupy time where I might be waiting because I was early, like a book or toys for my daughter..

(I am still late sometimes, but these strategies have helped make me late a lot LESS often)...

best to yoU! and don't worry about crying in front of the teacher... I cried in front of my boss a few times, that was REALLY embarassing
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#107 of 107 Old 09-21-2009, 09:07 AM
 
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wow there are schools that are so strict about children at PT meetings?

dd has been thru two schools. and i have gone up and said its hard for me to not bring her. and they have said we encourage no children there, but we understand so its ok to have kids there if you have no other choice.

so true about PT meetings too. i was volunteering so i knew what was going on in the class. so the teacher had a meeting set up with ex and i didnt do one. it was totally unnecessary.

so far i have found the schools in our district all work with the parents. it would be terrible if they didnt. there are lots and lots of single family or gparent family homes.

but yes i have to speak up to find out it is not as strict of a policy as i thought it was.

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