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Holland73's Avatar Holland73 01:08 PM 01-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtwice View Post
He may have felt so safe because he reminded you of home, of one of your parents, who perhaps wasn't/isn't there for you either.
This goes for me too!

It has been an on-going theme in all of my past relationships... choosing men that are emotionally disconnected, unable to commit and not truly there for me.

My mother, who -- ftr -- is a wonderful mother, was very emotionally disconnected and unable to be there for me, especially when I was going through something emotional. She'd shut down and oftentimes told me to "just get over it." It wasn't her fault and I blame my parents, particularly my mother, for NOTHING. They are products of their own parents, who were also very emotionally unintelligent. My mother's father was also an alcoholic, which also plays a huge role in my mother's emotional disconnect.

Only recently, with the help of a great therapist and some amazingly insightful friends, have I started to really understand and become more aware of the situation and my patterns... in ALL of my relationships, including my relationship with my son. That awareness has been pivotal in my healing process and continued personal growth.

Holland73's Avatar Holland73 01:18 PM 01-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by muse View Post
Holland73, Hi...
I'm in Berkeley, CA. !
Hey, I live in Oakland!!!! We are practically neighbors!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seie View Post
Wow Muse - that doesnt sound at all healthy to me. Im sorry, but a guy who is already scared shitless to be hurt and he hasn't even met you yet?
I agree, Muse.

Honestly, what is your pull to him? Are you hoping to "save him?" Hoping to prove to him that YOU won't hurt him? I mean, seriously... what is it about him that is drawing you in over and over? Be brutally honest with yourself about those answers. Although, honestly, a lot of time it has more to do with us than it does with them.

The one thing I learned from my last relationship... NO more projects!!! Everyone has emotional baggage, but there is a difference between having such baggage and being have to deal with it in a healthy manner versus letting it consume your life and choices.

This man seems to be consumed and controlled by his baggage.
sugarmoon's Avatar sugarmoon 05:48 PM 01-29-2010


Hi all.

Muse, I dunno about Chicago guy. I just don't. I guess I'm with everyone else, in wondering what it is that draws you in. And when you say that after him retreating, hard, twice, you now don't want to push for a meeting, is that because you are afraid of him retreating again, or because your own expectations have changed? And what are you doing IRL as far as socializing? Those things, make a difference, to me, in terms of what advice I might give as far as a next step, or not, with Chicago guy.

Holland, glad things continue to go well..

Seie. You are an amazing person, so willing to hear the hard, tough love, and so willing to do the reflective work and grow, no matter how much it hurts. Hang in there honey!

I know there are more of you I should be responding to, but I need to get my butt off the couch and do some cleaning while I can..

Quick update on me -- I was in a major funk, for lots of reasons, this weekend, and while I spent a 24 hr chunk with ATG, and told him that we had to have a "Talk", I wasn't up for doing it, and told him that as well. I ended up writing the bulk of my concerns out in an email (I def. prefer writing on the tricky stuff, like to be able to choose my words carefully). He was very reassuring, and sweet, in a general way, and then when he came over on Wednesday, we had our "talk". So we're officially exclusive. We talked about the label for what we are to each other..."boyfriend" sounds too much like "stepfather" to him, and "lover" sounds too much like "plaything" to me. So we settled on "sweetie".

So I officially have a monogomous sweetie. I'm pretty happy with that.
Holland73's Avatar Holland73 05:57 PM 01-29-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarmoon View Post

Quick update on me -- I was in a major funk, for lots of reasons, this weekend, and while I spent a 24 hr chunk with ATG, and told him that we had to have a "Talk", I wasn't up for doing it, and told him that as well. I ended up writing the bulk of my concerns out in an email (I def. prefer writing on the tricky stuff, like to be able to choose my words carefully). He was very reassuring, and sweet, in a general way, and then when he came over on Wednesday, we had our "talk". So we're officially exclusive. We talked about the label for what we are to each other..."boyfriend" sounds too much like "stepfather" to him, and "lover" sounds too much like "plaything" to me. So we settled on "sweetie".

So I officially have a monogomous sweetie. I'm pretty happy with that.

Yay for you!!!!

btw: I am also a bigger writer than talker when it comes to situations like that.
mumblemama's Avatar mumblemama 08:29 PM 01-29-2010
Just jumping in to say... yay sugarmoon!
JohnnysGirl's Avatar JohnnysGirl 12:50 AM 01-30-2010
Yay, sugar!!!!!

and muse..... no. no. no. no. You aren't arming yourself with exploring other options and being objective. You just aren't. Try to.


Seie, thank god you aren't mad at me for my brutality!
muse's Avatar muse 02:13 AM 01-30-2010
Mamas i thank you all for your input, truly. You are all saying much the same as my my friends IRL, except for a few. I too was saying much the same at one point.

I'll preface this by saying, maybe I'll be back on hear sobbing and asking for sympathy when this all blows up, but here's where i am, right now:

I have never ever known a person like him. When we talk on the phone we laugh, cry, sing, learn, grow...we could talk all night easily, night after night. It's quite otherworldly. The telepathy between us is downright uncanny. The amount of connections between us are numerous. When I first saw his photos i nearly fell off my chair, I felt like I'd known him my whole life. He moves me in so so so many ways. He is hilariously funny. His mind is so sharp. His political/ethical convictions impress me. I feel very connected to his spirituality. He is oh so very handsome/cute/sexy. His voice is...aaaaaah!

Last night he phoned when i was at the piano, playing My Funny Valentine. He told me that years ago he rewrote the lyrics. So then there I am playing piano and there he is singing his beautiful version of it, and - BLISS! and from there we talked for 2 hrs about our connection, about where we both feel vulnerable, about our patterns in relationships, our fears as we approach intimacy...he apologised for some of his behavior, and explained to me what had happened for him. He talked about what he's working on, how he's growing through all this.

I don't think he's scared shitless so much as wanting to be very careful and intentional. Being clear about what he wants in a relationship instead of rushing into something excitedly, and losing his calm/center (his words). he knows himself very well. I do think there is a rigidity there in some ways, a fear, but i found out he's a capricorn, read up on cap males and wow, that's him all over, and he's pursuing this in a typical cap way, carefully, slowly, deliberately, asking me to be patient...

Last night he did bring up again the idea of him coming out here, and this time it was me saying, no rush. In my mind spring would be good. Right now I feel like I'm in my own place of working on my self, and it's a good thing. He didn't bring up the webcam thing.

I feel like I've grown more in the 4 months I've "known" him than I did in so many years of marriage. i also feel like it's brought me back to my self, (he says the same); I'm back in therapy, meditating regularly, exercising, playing music...my work is better than ever...socially i am happy, enjoying friends, playing music with people, getting out a lot. In terms of dating I wouldn't let this connections stop anything else from happening, and I've had my profile online, but I haven't felt any attraction to anyone. had a few dates and my best male friend who i love confessed his love for me, but none of that is doing it for me..

Historically..I don't date a lot. I make very very deep connections with a man - usually quickly - and we fall head over heels in love & deep friendship. I wouldn't say any of my partners have been dysfunctional, they've all been incredible beautiful men I am grateful to have known. They have all had some shit or other to work through, but so do I. And one thing I've learned about "soul mates" which I believe CG is to me - is they can help us grow in so so many ways. It may not always be easy. In fact they can trigger more in us than anyone else. But there's great potential for evolution there. Whether that means we will ever meet and fall in love, who knows. But I've grown up some in this process. I've let go of some expectations/needs. I'm enjoying it for what it is. If he freaks out again, i will probably let it go. Im sure I would be *heartbroken*, honestly. Maybe I am kidding myself to think this might ever bloom into a real life relationship. But right now, esecially after last night, i am in awe of our connection.......

Ok did I say enough?!!!!
Rosehip's Avatar Rosehip 02:43 AM 01-31-2010
Well, ladies. I've been striking out big time. So, my squash partner, with whom a "relationship" never developed but with whom I've built/maintained a little friendship seems to be moving, as I suspected. He emailed me a listing of his new apartment in the other city. He called me and then I called him, but both @ bad times when we couldn't really talk yesterday and today. I'm a bit disappointed (he's the only person I've gotten close to dating who has seemed kind, responsible, intelligent, etc. - most of the things I want), but am also REALLY glad he was the first date I went out on right out of the divorce gate. It was like a really nice set of training wheels

Then...two weeks ago I went out for a drink w/a lawyer (let's call him litigator) I met on okcupid. I came away thinking he was intelligent and could hold an ok conversation but with a vague sense that...well....I wasn't sure. Was he too stuffy? Too old for me? But I figured I'd give it another go. Oh, good grief. We went on a second date and it was AWFUL. He's one of the most arrogant obnoxious people I've ever met. It was unbelievable. I was seriously wondering how I could escape. If the bathroom had a window I would have climbed out. I finally faked a sinus headache & insisted he take me home.

Then, there's lawyer #2 (I'll call him trial lawyer). A few weeks ago, we talked on the phone after back & forth on match. It was a remarkably "easy" conversation if that makes sense. We made tentative plans for a Sunday coffee date. He never followed up to confirm, and when I checked on match, his profile was gone or hidden. Whatever. Then, a few days after our coffee that didn't happen, I get a text saying "When R we going out?" After some back & forth, we settle on tonight. On Monday (today's Sat), I text him asking for suggestions of where to go.

I don't hear back from him until about 1 pm today when I get a match email. He suggests meeting at a nice restaurant in town @ 7:15.

I say that sounds great.

He replies, "Ok, 7 o'clock. And I just want you to know that the photos on match are from 2007 before I had a life threatening illness the treatment for which left me hairless. I just wanted to be upfront."

Me: "Ok, well, it's just hair! Just to confirm - 7, right (since it had changed from 7:15)?"

Him: "The bar at restaurant XXX is going to be packed on Sat night. Let's just meet cas at Starbucks & if we want we can then head over to restaurant YYYY (restaurant YYY is much more of a bar & less nice than the original suggestion)."

Then I call him, he doesn't pick up so I leave a vmail: "Hi, it's Rosehip. I wanted to clarify plans. Do you want to meet up at restaurant YY @ 7? Let me know." (I honestly had NO interest in going to Starbucks @ 7 on a Sat night, esp after I'd agreed to go to a nice place. I'm sure he was screening his calls & didn't pick up.)

He leaves me a message back: "Sure, I can meet you at restaurant YYY. Or we could go to Starbucks, if you'd rather. Just text me to confirm."

I text: "7 o'clock @ restaurant YYY. See you there."

Him: "K"

@ about 5:30 pm, him: "I'm running late. I'll meet you @ 7:20, ok?"

Me (TOTALLY fed up at this point): "Tonight sounds a bit too hectic. Let's maybe do this some other time."

Him: "C U @ 7."

Me: "Not tonight. Too many changes of plans at this point."

Him (he calls leaves a vmail): "I'm on my way, I'll see you @ YYY @ 7."

then texts: "U R not going to stand me up. It will be good to meet you. Meet me at the restaurant @ 7. You can end it early if it's not there."



OMG! I just blocked him on match, and stopped answering calls/texts. I just have a real sense that he's an awful, arrogant, smarmy jerk who was trying to see how far he could get me to kowtow to his whims, and pull the old bait & switch. All this drama before even a single date!

Ladies, I'm not having any luck here.
Seie's Avatar Seie 06:13 AM 01-31-2010
Muse: It sounds like you are walking into this with your eyes open and like it is something you need to explore. Good luck. I hope it works out

Roseship: I am amazed you hang around that long - good for you to stand him up. He was clearly not a good guy to hook up with. If he can't even follow up before meeting it wont get any better down the road. Wise decision to block him..

Been on second date with Manager. I am so so confused. It's going so fast - I enjoy his company so much but there are things about myself I am not at all certain about - like my feelings for him - no idea what they are - if they can devolop, it it's enough?? I am just - really confused. We click really really well personalitywise.. there is still just.. With LL I had this complete certainty already after our second date - I really had that feeling - like - this is my man! But then again that didn't work out so well except I had my heart shattered so obviously there were some very strong feelings involved.
Manager is so open and honest - I know exactly where he is at at this point. He is very loving and dedicated already, looks at me with real warmth and listens with real interest. At some point I had gone out to fetch some stuff from my car and I came back and he was on the computer. I jokingly asked if he had gotten any fan mail (on the dating site) and he looked surpriced and said he had put his profile on standby (hidden) so he wouldnt be getting any mail. I wonder if - had I met him before LL - I would be head over heels by now?? So many unknowns and I feel like I need to make some sort of decision soon as I don't want get his hopes all up if I am not going to follow through.
It seems like he is a person I could just easily slip into a good relationship with, but - after LL I am just not sure good is good enough anymore? Fxxx
It helps a bit writing that all out. I do really enjoy his company so don't think I could cut him loose already? Am I being selfish? Argghhhh...
muse's Avatar muse 12:26 PM 01-31-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seie View Post
So many unknowns and I feel like I need to make some sort of decision soon as I don't want get his hopes all up if I am not going to follow through.
seie, i wonder what's the rush to make a decision? how can you truly make one until your heart tells you the right thing to do?

here's what i'm meditating on for myself...slow down, be patient, put expectations aside, grieve past/lost loves - heartbreak can take a long time to recover from (i still mourn a boyfriend who died 10 yrs ago, and i still mourn the marriage that i chose to leave) - and mostly not to try to force any decision especially for someone else's benefit. i think we know when i know, one way or another. at some point it will be clear that it's not working for you, or it is. and meanwhile, *most important* to me is taking care of myself, working on myself, and like you said, keeping my eyes open but also my heart open.

rosehip WELL handled. yuck, what a jerk.
MsChatsAlot's Avatar MsChatsAlot 12:58 PM 01-31-2010
Dating, love, relationships...it's all about the journey.

The "destination" is merely the culmination of all the moments along the way...so just be in the moment, take things step by step and everything comes clearer along the way.

We don't need to know immediately if there's a 'future'. Some of the best relationships begin slowly, as friends and somewhere in those moments, it morphs into a beautiful relationship/

Being in the moment, focusing on & appreciating all the things we like most about the person is the best way to see how we really feel and it will either develop into more or not...but it won't matter because you've been present and enjoying each moment along the way.
JohnnysGirl's Avatar JohnnysGirl 11:30 PM 01-31-2010
Seie, you do NOT Have to decide. You know what to do....put the brakes on, but keep enjoying his company.

muse, I don't think that meeting face to face is taking a huge step. Why does he? I don't get it. I can see being careful about an emotional investment and a emotionally intense, serious relationship, but it sounds like you guys are doing that for nearly a year now, minus any face-to-face time to determine if you guys enjoy each other's company live. If i were you, I'd tell him that you are fine with taking things slow and carefully and not rushing in crazily, but at this point, sitting together and sharing a cup of tea and talking with eye contact is not the same thing as blindly rushing in, and kind of an important part of human interaction, not to be postponed until years down the line of these intense phone marathons. I'm sorry, although I'm happy for you that you found someone with whom you share such synergy, the scenario you guys have managed to mangle yourselves into is just..... weird. Just meet already and then figure out from there. YOu'll probably both wonder why on earth you thought it was such a big darned deal when you do. Meet someplace in the middle perhaps? Just a 24 hour thing? after a year of build-up, the expense shouldn't be an issue. Or he can pay for half of your ticket or you pay for half of his.
muse's Avatar muse 01:03 AM 02-01-2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butterflymom View Post
Meet someplace in the middle perhaps? Just a 24 hour thing? after a year of build-up, the expense shouldn't be an issue. Or he can pay for half of your ticket or you pay for half of his.
not a year! only 4 months, and for a month of that we didn't talk at all...
still, yeah of course if we were in the same town, or even a few hrs away we would have met. but i looked into flights and it was *expensive*. plus hotel, plus car....anyway he offered to come here because of the expense involved, me being a single mom...it's all just a matter of timing...and it's going to be up to him. i can't force that. all i can do is know my own limits. i would have met him in the first month, happily. he told me he's flown to meet a woman (or women?) in the past and got there to discover there was no deep connection between them. so he's trying to find that out first.
yeah, i *know* that's impossible, and besides the connection between us is pretty undeniable....he says over and over, "this is the kind of connection i've yearned for, this is too good to be true", etc etc...c'mon already!

hmm he just texted asking to chat tonite.
monkey'smom's Avatar monkey'smom 09:07 PM 02-01-2010
whoah, that took a while to catch up. I'll post a longer reply later, but I just wanted to give a quick update.

There's not a whole lot going on with me, which I'm fine with. I have made the decision to focus on myself for a while and get things back on track before I attempt dating again. However, that doesn't mean that I'm against um, some action ,from time to time.

Anyhow, there's this guy I know, we've been friendly for about a year now, we met at a party, I play the cello and he's in a band, and they were looking for someone to play cello for a song at that time. So since then, we've gotten together on our own a few times to play music, or to go to shows together, since we have similar taste in music.

We usually end up in bed together at the end of the night, and I was pleased with the situation, just because we were always clear with what it was, not relationship material, but that we could still hang out and be cool. Also, he was always seemed very considerate, and like a nice guy.

I have this weird thing about phones, I do not like to talk on them. If I can communicate online with someone, I will do that. Like, even my girlfriends tease me and always tell people, no really, don't call her, she won't answer her phone. When someone ask for my #, I usually just tell them to add me to msn or facebook and we can talk there. So, I had never spoken on the phone with this guy before, but that's not unusual at all with me.

However, a couple of weekends ago, I had tickets to a show, he asked me if I was going, and we made plans to go together. We were discussing it on msn the afternoon of, and he said "message me when you're ready to go and I'll come pick you up." and I replied that I was going offline to get ready, and what was his #, I would just call . And he was like, " I'd rather you just msg me". I didn't say anything, but I went to the show on my own and didn't message him. Just because, I was like, ummmmmm, we've hung out at least 10 times, you've slept with me, and you don't want me to have your number? like, did he think I was going to start calling him around the clock just because I had his number? I don't know, maybe I overeacted, but it really rubbed me the wrong way. And then he was peeved with me when we ran into each other that night, and I explained why I was peeved, he said it wasn't a big deal, but I don't know. I still find it strange.
muse's Avatar muse 11:35 PM 02-01-2010
monkey'smom, i may be way off, but any chance he's living with someone/married? that's the first thing i think if someone doesn't want to give their number out...
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