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#31 of 46 Old 07-01-2010, 07:12 PM
 
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Would a judge taking custody away from you for wasting the courts time get you to stop? B/c that can and does happen to people who waste the courts time - and I really think that things like sunscreen would be considered wasting the courts time. Things like drunk driving, and not supervising while children are playing in water would NOT be considered wasting the courts time - but going back to court all the time over things like sunscreen could get custody flipped fast. (unless there are other major problems with the other parent that makes them unsuitable to be the custodial parent).
And as I've stated - the courts that I've dealt with multiple times have not seen this as wasting their time....

We've dealt with multiple issues similar to this, that were not solved through mediation, went before the court - I have won, and retained primary custody.

You haven't even really started your custody battle yet (correct me if I am wrong)... I am merely stating my experience as a btdt, and while I can appreciate others have had vastly different experiences - any one individual won't know until they have attempted to address these issues themselves.

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#32 of 46 Old 07-02-2010, 12:19 AM
 
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Would a judge taking custody away from you for wasting the courts time get you to stop? B/c that can and does happen to people who waste the courts time - and I really think that things like sunscreen would be considered wasting the courts time. Things like drunk driving, and not supervising while children are playing in water would NOT be considered wasting the courts time - but going back to court all the time over things like sunscreen could get custody flipped fast. (unless there are other major problems with the other parent that makes them unsuitable to be the custodial parent).
I have been following this thread with interest and I have to say that my opinion on this has changed a bit. I started out viewing this as irritating but not really something to push on for this exact reason, but as someone else pointed out a burn is a burn and that if a parent was burning their child with something else, whether it just turned red or skin came off, they would lose custody of their kids. I think that would be a good thing to include in a letter to the judge saying that you don't want to be the mom who brings up little issues but that you are worried about your kids experiencing unnecessary pain and being at increased risk for skin cancer on top of that. If you can find out how much exposure a kid tends to need to get 2nd degree burns that may also be something good to include in the letter. I know that when judges are sentencing people they allow others to write in letters to them so you probably could in a case like this.

Even 1st degree sunburns hurt a lot and I learned through personal experience that you can get a second degree burn in a very short period of time (and that is excruciating for days and days even for adults). I would definitely consider this something worth pushing because you can justify it as reasonable. Being burnt is not a little thing, it is a great big thing that more parents should take a stand on.

OP, in addition to that cute song I suggest sunscreening them with the highest SPF sunscreen you can before they go with their dad if you know they are going to swim right away and maybe teaching them to go to another mom at the pool and ask her to sunscreen them because dad forgot and they don't want to get a painful burn. Dad may not want to be embarrassed like that more than once.
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#33 of 46 Old 07-02-2010, 12:57 AM
 
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Honestly I think the best approach would be teaching yur children to use sunscreen and to stand up for themselves. Send an easy to use sunscreen (we use the aresol kind which is probably all kinds of bad but effective) and swim suits that cover and hats etc. At six, with practice your six year old should be able to at least handle putting on a decent amount of sun screen.

My dd got brutally sunburned a few weeks ago while biking with her dad. sun screen aside if she had been dressed in modest attire (their dad lets them dress innapropriately) as she had been instructed she would not have gotten a sunburn at all. I hope she learned her lesson. Or at keast learned to apply sunscreen. At any rate this was not something I even bothered bringing up to my xh (he would refuse on principal then) but instead just teach my kids to do things that we value by themselves.

This is something around here that would be considered wasting the courts time. And we have a heavy scandinavian population.

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#34 of 46 Old 07-02-2010, 09:31 AM
 
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I agree with teaching them to use sunscreen and sending it along.

It is also a very passive aggressive message to the other parent though!

I am jealous of the judge that listens to this stuff. If only they all did...
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#35 of 46 Old 07-02-2010, 03:15 PM
 
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I do not think it is passive agressive to teach your children self care and provide the things you need for them to do it. She asked the dad and he said no (either directly or repeated failyures to do it). ok fair enough. If the dad won't do it the children must learn to do it themselves.

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#36 of 46 Old 07-02-2010, 06:37 PM
 
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And as I've stated - the courts that I've dealt with multiple times have not seen this as wasting their time....

We've dealt with multiple issues similar to this, that were not solved through mediation, went before the court - I have won, and retained primary custody.

You haven't even really started your custody battle yet (correct me if I am wrong)... I am merely stating my experience as a btdt, and while I can appreciate others have had vastly different experiences - any one individual won't know until they have attempted to address these issues themselves.
I'm in the middle of it. Yes, it has begun. And it SUCKS. My ex is trying to convince the court that HIS MOTHER is my son's primary care giver. Umm...My child LIVES with ME - not my ex's mother. It's so irritating.

Again, I'm really glad that YOU have been successful going in front of a court about sunscreen type issues - where I am, as I said, that would be seen as wasting a courts time. Truly. My lawyer would advise against it - so those of us who are recommending that the OP not take this to court are probably in a similar situation to me. I would love to know where you are that judges have the time to hear cases about things that most judges would consider out of the CP's control.
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#37 of 46 Old 07-03-2010, 02:57 PM
 
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I'm in the middle of it. Yes, it has begun. And it SUCKS. My ex is trying to convince the court that HIS MOTHER is my son's primary care giver. Umm...My child LIVES with ME - not my ex's mother. It's so irritating.

Again, I'm really glad that YOU have been successful going in front of a court about sunscreen type issues - where I am, as I said, that would be seen as wasting a courts time. Truly. My lawyer would advise against it - so those of us who are recommending that the OP not take this to court are probably in a similar situation to me. I would love to know where you are that judges have the time to hear cases about things that most judges would consider out of the CP's control.
I'm sorry to hear about such an awful situation. That's one of my worst nightmares (my ex-ILs are both manipulative and certifiable, so you have my sympathy)...

As to your question, I live in northern Ontario and have had typically very satisfying experiences in court and mediation.

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#38 of 46 Old 08-02-2010, 09:30 AM
 
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Resurfacing this thread because my 18 month old came home with sunburn this weekend.

I only made it about halfway through the second page of replies because it was far too upsetting to hear many thoughts that sunscreen and sunburn are "trivial" things and that Moms should let go of this issue.

I feel completely opposite!!! Malenoma cancer runs very high in my family. Heredity + Sunburn increases our risk so much!

I have lost my Great Aunt, my Grandmother, my Aunt and my Uncle all to malenoma cancer!!! So no one had better tell me it's a trivial thing to worry about.

My DD has most definitely inherited my sensitive skin. My STBX KNOWS how malenoma cancer runs in my family as he started dating me soon after my Aunt passed away from it. He knows how great our kids are already at risk for this cancer because of family history.

Putting suncreen on my kids is not trivial... and I am very much in the camp that is neglect to not put suncreen on a child that you KNOW has a much greater chance to develop malenoma.

I gave STBX the suncreen purposefully so I know he'd have it!! And he forgot to put it on. He claimed he did look in the gift shops for some but amazingly none of them sold any. (he took the kids to the zoo). I told him it cannot happen again due to the family history of malenoma.

He said to me, "well I never claimed to be perfect and you know I'm not, it's not a big deal."

Watch several of your close family members battle malenoma cancer and die, and then say again it's not a big deal.


OP... I was curious if you have gotten anywhere with this issue yet?

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#39 of 46 Old 08-02-2010, 10:37 AM
 
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This could be a serious medical concern- I would also ask a doctor to back you up. My kids have come home badly burned, and it has not concerned me too much- but we have an olive-toned family and no cancer on either side, so a couple of burns seem ok.

If they have severe burns often, and your doc says the risk is high for your kids, not putting on sunscreen amounts to neglect. That trumps his distaste for doing what you tell him to do.
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Are you serious? Neglect? I've had CPS called on me before - for LESS than forgetting sunscreen! Come on people. He forgot sunscreen. Did they get 3rd degree burns? Are they blistered and bleeding? That would be cause for concern - but a little red isn't going to get anyone's attention.

sophmama - don't make a huge issue out of this (unless they are severely burned with blisters and bleeding) b/c if you do, it will look like you are trying to be overly controlling of the father and his parenting. I would also send them WITH sunscreen, and say something like, "They have sunscreen in the backpack, b/c of the family history of skin cancer I would appreciate it if you helped them put it on when outside. Thanks." - and then drop it and don't mention it again.
If they were allowed to burn them selves on the stove due to lack of adult supervision would that not be neglect? How is this different?
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#40 of 46 Old 08-03-2010, 01:41 AM
 
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Soph,

Your message is getting across. He just doesn't care or is too lazy to do it. I know its frustrating, as I have been through alot of situations like that (the fact my kids' dad exposes them to second hand smoke, doesn' use sunscreen either). But what else can we do?? I packed sunscreen and guess what? I never got it back! Does that surprise you?? So, believe me, I know exactly what you are going through. Its called POWER and CONTROL and he's using the kids as the pawn. I'm sorry you have to go through it. Just keep taking pictures, documenting, and if the burns get bad and chronic:
1) Go to Dr. Office and get documentation if they are infected, blistering etc
2) With that information call CPS and they will investigate him for neglect.

Good luck!
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#41 of 46 Old 08-03-2010, 02:09 AM
 
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I find it interesting that people see a sun burn as different than a burn from an open flame or a hot oven.

I'd be all up in the courts freaking out if someone were routinely allowing my child to get burned on candles or ovens or the like because they were too lazy, too forgetful, or too busy in a power struggle to care about the pain our child was experiencing.

I'm not really sure how sun burn could be seen as different. I get that courts might think it is a waste of time, but it baffles me that anyone would think that. I'm the type who thinks people are too hyped up about sun exposure (I believe some completely exposed sun time each day is actually BETTER for you than never getting any at all.. I'm talking like 10 minutes at noon for moderately fair skinned people) but to get burned enough to cause a concern, especially with a history of skin cancer... how is that NOT a concern?

I'd assume a history of skin cancer coupled with the very real risks of multiple sun burns would be enough to have the courts require sunscreen to be used. Its not hard to use enough and it doesn't take long to learn how much and how often is enough.

I would probably want to fight it too. I'd go to a doctor first about it to have back up.
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#42 of 46 Old 08-03-2010, 05:41 PM
 
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I'd assume a history of skin cancer coupled with the very real risks of multiple sun burns would be enough to have the courts require sunscreen to be used. Its not hard to use enough and it doesn't take long to learn how much and how often is enough.

I would probably want to fight it too. I'd go to a doctor first about it to have back up.
The problem is that its nearly impossible to enforce. It's actually impossible to enforce. Especially since people can and do get sunburned even while wearing sunscreen.

I personally think that sunscreen is way less of an issue than an open flame - Ummm....really? How are those even comparable??!! A person won't spontaneously combust into a fire ball out in the sun, however, when they are near open flame they could say, catch their hair on fire (very easily!). It's a very different issue. It's upsetting yes, but if its a waste of a courts time to deal with my son being forward facing in a carseat at too young an age, sunscreen is DEFINITELY not on the list of things they will address. And aren't the same people telling these posters to fight the sunscreen issue the same ones that told me a few weeks ago to drop the carseat issue?? Sunscreen isn't required by law. It's just not.
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#43 of 46 Old 08-04-2010, 04:28 PM
 
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I read page one and then got mad. OP, I could have written your post word for freaking word. My xmil has had many cancerous and precancerous spots removed and has had chemotherapy on her face to try to avoid disfiguring surgery. Her face looked like ground beef for months. I don't like her as a person, but I wouldn't wish a second round of that on her for all the gold in the world.

Here's what I did to protect ds (Fitzpatrick I):

We have a fantabulous dermatologist. Ds sees her once a year for a full body check. I asked her to write a letter "to whom it may concern" stating her professional recommendation that ds must be fully covered at all times. I use it for school, so that they don't fuss over his hat and sunglasses (not normally allowed in school). The letter also served notice to exdh that this issue must be taken seriously. Attached to her letter was some great info from the AAP.

I personally stopped using sunblock a few years ago after I got tired of worrying about micronized particles and preservatives and such. (If I had to use one, it would be UV Natural) We use Coolibar products for swimming, long rashguards. Ds wear their legionnaire hat and face mask when at PE/recess. Exdh is legally obligated in our divorce to follow doctor's orders, so he is bound by the directions.

Back in May, he "thought ds would be ok in the shade" so he sent him out in the yard in shorts and a tank-style undershirt. He swears ds was only out for 10 minutes, in the shade. It ended up being a 2nd degree burn on his neck, shoulders, and upper arms. For those who don't know, this meant oozing, weeping blisters. It was terribly painful for 8yo ds. Because of the blisters, he was opened up to infection.

I called exdh in private and unleashed every swear word I know, in two languages. The doctor's letter stated the melanoma risk was most elevated after 2 childhood sunburns. I told exdh that this was his one free screw-up. The dermatologist fuh-reaked out. If there is ever a next time, she will call CPS.

If a parent burned their child on the stove, or with an open flame, it would be acknowledged as criminal negligence. Why is a sunburn any different?

OP, get a good skin doctor like yesterday. Get something on the record. Take pictures of the burns. If it ever happens again, consider calling CPS. It is quite serious. It is criminal medical negligence.

Good for you for being sun-wise! I'm sorry this happened to your family. But there are steps you can take to keep it from happening again. GL!

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#44 of 46 Old 08-05-2010, 01:44 AM
 
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I read page one and then got mad. OP, I could have written your post word for freaking word. My xmil has had many cancerous and precancerous spots removed and has had chemotherapy on her face to try to avoid disfiguring surgery. Her face looked like ground beef for months. I don't like her as a person, but I wouldn't wish a second round of that on her for all the gold in the world.

Here's what I did to protect ds (Fitzpatrick I):

We have a fantabulous dermatologist. Ds sees her once a year for a full body check. I asked her to write a letter "to whom it may concern" stating her professional recommendation that ds must be fully covered at all times. I use it for school, so that they don't fuss over his hat and sunglasses (not normally allowed in school). The letter also served notice to exdh that this issue must be taken seriously. Attached to her letter was some great info from the AAP.

I personally stopped using sunblock a few years ago after I got tired of worrying about micronized particles and preservatives and such. (If I had to use one, it would be UV Natural) We use Coolibar products for swimming, long rashguards. Ds wear their legionnaire hat and face mask when at PE/recess. Exdh is legally obligated in our divorce to follow doctor's orders, so he is bound by the directions.

Back in May, he "thought ds would be ok in the shade" so he sent him out in the yard in shorts and a tank-style undershirt. He swears ds was only out for 10 minutes, in the shade. It ended up being a 2nd degree burn on his neck, shoulders, and upper arms. For those who don't know, this meant oozing, weeping blisters. It was terribly painful for 8yo ds. Because of the blisters, he was opened up to infection.

I called exdh in private and unleashed every swear word I know, in two languages. The doctor's letter stated the melanoma risk was most elevated after 2 childhood sunburns. I told exdh that this was his one free screw-up. The dermatologist fuh-reaked out. If there is ever a next time, she will call CPS.

If a parent burned their child on the stove, or with an open flame, it would be acknowledged as criminal negligence. Why is a sunburn any different?

OP, get a good skin doctor like yesterday. Get something on the record. Take pictures of the burns. If it ever happens again, consider calling CPS. It is quite serious. It is criminal medical negligence.

Good for you for being sun-wise! I'm sorry this happened to your family. But there are steps you can take to keep it from happening again. GL!
Love.this. Absolutely agree, word for freaking word!!

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#45 of 46 Old 08-05-2010, 09:58 PM
 
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I read page one and then got mad. OP, I could have written your post word for freaking word. My xmil has had many cancerous and precancerous spots removed and has had chemotherapy on her face to try to avoid disfiguring surgery. Her face looked like ground beef for months. I don't like her as a person, but I wouldn't wish a second round of that on her for all the gold in the world.

Here's what I did to protect ds (Fitzpatrick I):

We have a fantabulous dermatologist. Ds sees her once a year for a full body check. I asked her to write a letter "to whom it may concern" stating her professional recommendation that ds must be fully covered at all times. I use it for school, so that they don't fuss over his hat and sunglasses (not normally allowed in school). The letter also served notice to exdh that this issue must be taken seriously. Attached to her letter was some great info from the AAP.

I personally stopped using sunblock a few years ago after I got tired of worrying about micronized particles and preservatives and such. (If I had to use one, it would be UV Natural) We use Coolibar products for swimming, long rashguards. Ds wear their legionnaire hat and face mask when at PE/recess. Exdh is legally obligated in our divorce to follow doctor's orders, so he is bound by the directions.

Back in May, he "thought ds would be ok in the shade" so he sent him out in the yard in shorts and a tank-style undershirt. He swears ds was only out for 10 minutes, in the shade. It ended up being a 2nd degree burn on his neck, shoulders, and upper arms. For those who don't know, this meant oozing, weeping blisters. It was terribly painful for 8yo ds. Because of the blisters, he was opened up to infection.

I called exdh in private and unleashed every swear word I know, in two languages. The doctor's letter stated the melanoma risk was most elevated after 2 childhood sunburns. I told exdh that this was his one free screw-up. The dermatologist fuh-reaked out. If there is ever a next time, she will call CPS.

If a parent burned their child on the stove, or with an open flame, it would be acknowledged as criminal negligence. Why is a sunburn any different?

OP, get a good skin doctor like yesterday. Get something on the record. Take pictures of the burns. If it ever happens again, consider calling CPS. It is quite serious. It is criminal medical negligence.

Good for you for being sun-wise! I'm sorry this happened to your family. But there are steps you can take to keep it from happening again. GL!
Taking notes on this. Thank you!! Skin cancer is so terribly awful.

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#46 of 46 Old 08-06-2010, 03:31 PM
 
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I recall a case where they charged a man with first degree abuse in Kentucky for letting a toddler get quite sunburned. The police arrested him, but later dropped the charges because the DA said it was stupid, but not abuse, and said it was a matter for family court. IIRC they turned up other neglect issues about the uav xh during the investigation and the DA then looked a bit foolish.

I am a bit on the fence on this issue- mild burns are usually accidents, not neglect. An established pattern is of course different. I suffered many burns as a child and even when they are first degree they HURT. They hurt for days- way more than a spanking. The last burn I got was 2nd degree large blisters all over my back, with even a few spots of 3rd degree burns, and I have scars all over my back 30 years later which make it embarassing to wear a backless dress or tank, and I have a serious skin cancer risk. ( I did this to myself at age 14 by sneaking to the pool while on medicine which makes one photosensitive, but I digress.) But even the less serious burns hurt A LOT. I see the point of the ladies who want equal treatment for the xhs, and allow them to make mistakes just as we moms make mistakes- certainly my dds have gotten quite hurt with me standing right there and supervising. Xh's deserve that much leeway. But sunburn inflicts a significant amount of pain for at least 24 hours, and no one would allow anyone to inflict that much pain on a child intentionally- it is way more pain then a spanking, as I said before.

Even as one with a high melanoma risk, I am still not certain that causality has been established between sunburn and melanoma. The evidence now is pointing to a deficiency in D3, brought about by indoor living, in concert with occaisional burns. I do think it would be unwise to haul someone back in to court for just one sunburn. But documenting and adding it to a cumulative list of issues seems prudent.
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