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Old 10-31-2010, 11:25 AM
 
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I have no clue.... but that guy is def a piece of work.... and not a masterpiece either

This is a tree on fire with love, but it's still scary since most people think love only looks like one thing instead of the whole world. *
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Old 10-31-2010, 03:34 PM
 
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now i will wait for tuesday. that's when he calls right. tuesdays and thursdays.

and i would stay real close to the phone... IF he calls. and totally eavesdrop. i am sure he is going to say something mean about not seeing O and choice words about it being your fault.

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Old 10-31-2010, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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now i will wait for tuesday. that's when he calls right. tuesdays and thursdays.
He calls sundays and thursdays. So he should be calling in about an hour. We'll see if he does.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 10-31-2010, 10:04 PM
 
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I'd ask your lawyer of the possible ramifications of asking to terminate parental rights. I mean, when is it considered abandonment? I know in the classical terms, since he's done *something* it's not abandonment, but really. This has been going on for years and it's not right to drag Owen through this. You take the high road every single time because you're doing what's best for Owen - ex is certainly only what is best for him(?).

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Old 11-01-2010, 01:05 AM
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I'm just kind of curious, but why do you think Owen's father is so hellbent on hurting you? I have never understood men who hold these grudges even after "moving on" and finding other partners.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:56 AM
 
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I'd ask your lawyer of the possible ramifications of asking to terminate parental rights. I mean, when is it considered abandonment? I know in the classical terms, since he's done *something* it's not abandonment, but really. This has been going on for years and it's not right to drag Owen through this. You take the high road every single time because you're doing what's best for Owen - ex is certainly only what is best for him(?).
I wonder about the same thing- or maybe- when he realizes he can't control you through Owen, he would voluntarily surrender his rights so your partner can adopt him?
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'd ask your lawyer of the possible ramifications of asking to terminate parental rights. I mean, when is it considered abandonment? I know in the classical terms, since he's done *something* it's not abandonment, but really. This has been going on for years and it's not right to drag Owen through this. You take the high road every single time because you're doing what's best for Owen - ex is certainly only what is best for him(?).
It's something I will ask her about!

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I'm just kind of curious, but why do you think Owen's father is so hellbent on hurting you? I have never understood men who hold these grudges even after "moving on" and finding other partners.
I won't go into the whole story but I will say it was an abusive relationship and it didn't stop when I left him. I let it continue for years, telling myself that if it kept him in ds's life than I could deal with the abuse (believed at the time that a crappy dad is better than no dad). When he disappeared for a year when ds was 2-3 and again for another year when he was 3-4 I realized that I didn't have to let the abuse continue. So I put my foot down and refused to allow the abuse to continue. Since then he's been so angry with me, pissed off that I won't bow down and kiss his butt, and allow him to do whatever he wants. He's told me many times that I "ruined his life" by not having an abortion

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 10:36 AM
 
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WOW. He said that to you???? How did you ruin HIS life? He doesn't even SEE the kid! Any parent who actually spent time with their own child, wouldn't know that O didn't ruin ANYBODY's life. Wow. I don't know what to say.

Again, I'm SO glad O has a dad in your dp. Your DP and O's Grandpa are going to make GREAT role models for him as he grows up - just try to focus on the positives.
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sadly, yes. Those words actually came out of his mouth I heard it a lot when I was pregnant with ds, about how I was ruining ex's life because I refused to have an abortion (and we were engaged at the time! And then he was shocked when I refused to marry him ). He continued on with that comment every so often for the first couple years of ds's life, but I haven't heard it lately (so he either just doesn't say it to me or he doesn't believe it anymore- that's anyone's guess).

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And yes, we are very lucky to have dp and my dad in ds's life

Oh, and during ex's ranting through the text messages his only argument for why he should be allowed to spend time alone with ds was "say my name to Owen- he knows my name". Ummmm.... so because he knows your name that makes you a stellar candidate for spending alone time with my child?!?

He never once said "I've been consistent with my phone calls to ds and I think he's ready to spend alone time with me" or "I think ds is comfortable with me after these phone calls and I think he'll adjust fine to being alone with me" or anything like that. Just "he knows my name". That's his reasoning for why he deserved unsupervised time.

So if ds knows the UPS delivery drivers name I should allow him to spend unsupervised time with him?!?

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 12:35 PM
 
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You are a very strong woman, Steph.

DS, 10/07. Allergies: peanut, egg, wheat. We've added dairy back in. And taken it back out again. It causes sandpaper skin with itchy patches and thrashing during sleep. Due w/ #2 late April, 2012.

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Old 11-01-2010, 12:36 PM
 
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Did he call?

goorganic.jpgwife to footinmouth.gif, currently WOH and geek.gif on my doctorate. (I'm dissertating!) We: novaxnocirc.giftoddler.gifgd.giffamilybed1.gif  with DS (4/09)!
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Old 11-01-2010, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Did he call?
Yes. DS was trick or treating at the time but we stopped to let him talk. Ex didn't talk to him for long (but, again, ds was trick or treating so I'll give ex the benefit of the doubt on that one because it would be hard to get ANY child to stop trick or treating to talk on the phone, ya know?). He asked ds if he had a good time in Michigan but otherwise didn't mention it at all. Which kinda sucks in a way because on Thursday when he talked to ds he promised ds he was going to see him on Friday. Of course, that didn't happen so now I'm left to deal with ds's questions on why he didn't see ex the whole time he was in Michigan

ETA- just like how ex started promising ds a birthday gift/card (started as a promise for a card that evolved into a promise of a gift) about 2 weeks before his birthday. DS's birthday was October 3rd. It's now November 1st and he's gotten nothing from ex. Obviously, he's not going to get anything from ex and it was another of ex's lies that I am left to deal with. I really don't get WHY he would even promise ds a gift. Just don't mention it if you aren't going to follow through!

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 01:18 PM
 
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So if ds knows the UPS delivery drivers name I should allow him to spend unsupervised time with him?!?
Apparently if he knows ANYONE's name he should be left alone with them. Interesting argument. My ds knows LOTS of peoples names, and I don't leave him alone with everyone! I mean, come on, he's 21mo, is a social butterfly, learns names VERY fast and then doesn't forget them - thats NOT a good enough reason, lol.

Wow Steph, I can't believe you haven't gotten him to sign over his rights yet. Maybe wait till you're actually married so that your dp can adopt immediately after? Ugh.
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow Steph, I can't believe you haven't gotten him to sign over his rights yet. Maybe wait till you're actually married so that your dp can adopt immediately after? Ugh.
I have to talk to my lawyer more about it, but this was our plan before. DP and I get married January 1st. When that happens ds will lose his Medicaid so we'll put ds on dp's insurance (yes, over 6 years after it was court ordered- ex STILL hasn't gotten insurance for ds even though it's available to him). After that I need to file some more papers with the Friend of the Court asking for them to re-calculate child support (to add in the additional health insurance expenses as well as the cost of living increase since Michigan allows for that every 3 years and it's been a little over 3 years since our last one). Based on an online calculator his child support should be a nice increase, which is going to piss him off so much. In addition to that he will also have to pay for 76% of all uncovered medical expenses (including ds's therapy). That includes all co-pays and such. Once all that hits ex I'm hoping he decides to sign over his parental rights and lets dp adopt ds. At that point dp and I will be stuck with 100% of all the medical expenses and we won't get the benefit of the child support, but it would be worth it, without a doubt.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 01:37 PM
 
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Does he know that your dp wants to adopt ds? I doubt he would sign over his rights without knowing that (since his lawyer may have advised him that he can't unless there is someone who wants to adopt who is in a position to do so - I don't know if thats the law, but I think its likely that signing over rights isn't so easy - although you may know better than I do!!).

I hope he does sign over his rights, its not like he's actually trying to be a dad to O.
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Old 11-01-2010, 03:02 PM
 
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if he signs over his rights would you still let him see owen once a year or whatever?

what about his sister?

  

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Old 11-01-2010, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
 
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if he signs over his rights would you still let him see owen once a year or whatever?

what about his sister?
Yes, I would have no problem letting ex, chickadee, their children, ex's sister, parents, grandparents, ect see ds. Heck, I'm the one who facilitates visits with ex's family now, not him. Ex's sister, her kids and ex's mom saw ds this weekend. Ex had nothing to do with that.

Obviously if anyone were speaking inappropriately with ds that issue would be dealt with.

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-01-2010, 04:44 PM
 
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he would be crazy not to accept. and honestly... with the probably huge increase i imagine he will. its a win win for him, really. everything stays the same only he doesn't have to call anymore and he and chickadee get extra money every month.

  

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Old 11-01-2010, 05:47 PM
 
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I have to talk to my lawyer more about it, but this was our plan before. DP and I get married January 1st. When that happens ds will lose his Medicaid so we'll put ds on dp's insurance (yes, over 6 years after it was court ordered- ex STILL hasn't gotten insurance for ds even though it's available to him). After that I need to file some more papers with the Friend of the Court asking for them to re-calculate child support (to add in the additional health insurance expenses as well as the cost of living increase since Michigan allows for that every 3 years and it's been a little over 3 years since our last one). Based on an online calculator his child support should be a nice increase, which is going to piss him off so much. In addition to that he will also have to pay for 76% of all uncovered medical expenses (including ds's therapy). That includes all co-pays and such. Once all that hits ex I'm hoping he decides to sign over his parental rights and lets dp adopt ds. At that point dp and I will be stuck with 100% of all the medical expenses and we won't get the benefit of the child support, but it would be worth it, without a doubt.
I love this idea! hehe. However...if he doesn't think of signing over rights on his own, are you going to mention it to him or wait until he decides? Because I would be VERY careful about how you mention it, if you do. Perhaps a, "The only way to get out of this increase is to sign away your rights and I don't see you doing that, so tough!" or maybe even, "The only way to get out of this increase is to sign away your rights and I do NOT want that to happen so we'll just have to deal with this!" just because, from what it sounds like, a lot of his actions are directly to go against you, regardless of anything else. So if you at least appear to not want him to sign over his rights, maybe that will make the lightbulb in his head go off so he'll think, "Ooh, I can sign over my rights! THAT will piss her off!"

I would just be careful about making it clear that you want him to do it. Not just because of the way he is, but because you don't want it to be looked at as blackmail. Kwim?

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Old 11-02-2010, 01:00 AM
 
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It took over 6 years for my ex to realize that signing over his rights was the best decision. Since he liked the idea of using dd as a weapon, I was careful not to mention that as something I wanted... it was his idea, and when he mentioned it, I got the paperwork underway the next day. We are hoping it will all be finalized before the end of the year.
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Old 11-02-2010, 01:19 AM
 
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Once all that hits ex I'm hoping he decides to sign over his parental rights and lets dp adopt ds.
add new baby to the list too. about that time right. due sometime early next year.

yup so worth the expense. you never have to worry about unsupervised visits anymore.

but M will always have the opportunity because you will be making the trip to see other family members.

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Old 11-02-2010, 02:05 AM
 
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Quick update... Got a text from him tonight. More demands for unsupervised time tomorrow, more threats.... Blah, blah, blah. I'm not giving in. He can take me back to court but I am not giving in to his demands. He can't even talk to me like a decent human. He just threatens and demands.
Good for you Steph!

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I have to wonder why on earth he wouldn't return O to you? He hasn't been interested in parenting for 5 YEARS - O doesn't even consider him "dad".

You probably can't answer that, and I COMPLETELY agree that listening to Mama gut is SO important, ALWAYS, but I just wonder why on earth he would keep him? I mean, he doesn't even consider him his child, yk?

ETA - keep all those text threats!!!! (I tell the queen of documenting this.....)
I kinda wondered that too! I can't imagine him even considering "parenting" O since he can't even remember the number of kids he has.....

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He has no interest in owen, but he has lots of interest in hurting me. He knows one way to do that is through owen.
That is so heartbreaking. Why these men (and women, I guess) use kids to hurt the other parent is a shame....

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I'd ask your lawyer of the possible ramifications of asking to terminate parental rights. I mean, when is it considered abandonment? I know in the classical terms, since he's done *something* it's not abandonment, but really. This has been going on for years and it's not right to drag Owen through this. You take the high road every single time because you're doing what's best for Owen - ex is certainly only what is best for him(?).
In my state (CA) there are actually two different reasons you can file to terminate parental rights. The first in abandonment - which is defined as one year or more of no visitation and no means for supporting the child financially. The other is willful neglect which is defined as one year or more of either no visitation or no means for supporting the child financially.... Willful neglect is harder to prove I have heard but it is another option to ask your attorney about Steph.

Also I want to add that based on my consults most family law attorneys have less knowledge of Termination of Parental Rights (TPR) than custody, etc. ---- I think that is in part because in my state TPR as well as adoptions are handled in juvenile court not family court. So if I used an attorney for TPR I might go with an attorney that specializes in adoption more so than custody.

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Old 11-02-2010, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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add new baby to the list too. about that time right. due sometime early next year.
LOL... I didn't even think of this. I'm not sure when she's due. They just found out the gender a couple weeks ago so I assume she's around 22 weeks now (so, due at beginning of March maybe?). So the new child support amount should hit in February sometime. New baby born a couple weeks later.... 2 in diapers..... buying formula (she didn't breastfeed the last one, I doubt she will this one). She just bought a new car recently too and they're paying on that. They said they just "bought" a house, but I don't know if they actually bought it or are renting it. I definitely think it's going to be better to wait until after all this hits to plant the seed in his head about terminating rights.

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I would just be careful about making it clear that you want him to do it. Not just because of the way he is, but because you don't want it to be looked at as blackmail. Kwim?
This is my biggest fear, is having it used against me. However, it's hard to even plant a seed in his head about it when he won't even talk to me I think it'll be something where I'll just have my lawyer send a message along to his lawyer about "unless he signs over his rights he's going to have to work with us for the next 11 years". Planting the seed, but not asking him to sign over his rights.

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We are hoping it will all be finalized before the end of the year.
Good luck!!

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I kinda wondered that too! I can't imagine him even considering "parenting" O since he can't even remember the number of kids he has.....
Oh, I have no doubt he wouldn't be "parenting" ds if he were to take him. He would give him to Chickadee's parents. Both of them have already mentioned that if ds were with them for unsupervised visits they would have no problem leaving him with her parents. Even though ds has NO IDEA who these people are. But apparently that's how they parent. Ex told ds last week that his baby was sick so "we sent him over to his Grandma's house. Grandma will send him back to us in a few days when he's feeling better". WTF?!?


Quote:
In my state (CA) there are actually two different reasons you can file to terminate parental rights. The first in abandonment - which is defined as one year or more of no visitation and no means for supporting the child financially. The other is willful neglect which is defined as one year or more of either no visitation or no means for supporting the child financially.... Willful neglect is harder to prove I have heard but it is another option to ask your attorney about Steph.

Also I want to add that based on my consults most family law attorneys have less knowledge of Termination of Parental Rights (TPR) than custody, etc. ---- I think that is in part because in my state TPR as well as adoptions are handled in juvenile court not family court. So if I used an attorney for TPR I might go with an attorney that specializes in adoption more so than custody.
Thanks for all this info!! My lawyer was in court all day yesterday so I'm just waiting for her to call me back so we can figure out what to do next...

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:43 AM
 
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Actually Steph I wanted to correct part of my statement above I was still thinking about this when I went to bed..... and want to clarify for you and others reading this later ------ the not visiting is actually "no contact" in a year or more, which is visits and calls. Just wanted to be more clear.

Wishing you all the best.

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Old 11-03-2010, 06:28 AM
 
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Oh Steph. The more I read about you and your situation the more in awe of your strength I am! You're amazing and super strong in dealing with all this for and with Owen. I too am not surprised by the turn of events, just wish it was easier for you (and all the other struggling mama's and kiddo's out there). Thanks for sharing your story- I get courage and strength from your drama (sorry!) and have such high hopes for you, Owen and Jason in the future! Keep your head up, you are doing Great! Interesting to see where this goes from here.....

Married to Michael and Mother of Jake 9, Jillianne 7, Jensen 5, Jacen 4. I've got severe osteoporosis, a fractured hip and chronic pain-so please be patient with me! Pagan,Crocheter,Reader,Homeschooler- that's me in a nutshell.

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